Topic: NEED HELP WITH BETCOIN.AG: industry feedback appreciated! (Read 287 times)

We would like to point out that this matter was resolved by SBR and we were happy to be able to pay the player in full.
https://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/sportsbooks-industry/3600843-need-help-betcoin-ag-industry-feedback-appreciated.html

We have also updated our terms of service, based on their recommendation, so this issue does not arise going forward. If you have any questions or concerns, please let us know. Thanks and best of luck to all!

JayJuanGee, check out their poker policy I posted above. For poker they DO warn the player as it gets close, but for sports they offer zero warning. They just go straight to stealing after 12 months.

Based on browsing through this thread (after seeing reference to it in the trust feedback of Avirunes), I just tried logging into my Betcoin.ag account, and I was not able to do so.  

Likely my account was deleted under the concept of inactive accounts, and I do not recall receiving any e-mail or anything like that from betcoin.ag to notify me of their policy or deletion decision  (either before such deletion was done or after it was done).  

Of course, they had my e-mail associated with the account, yet concededly I had not logged into my account for a considerable amount of time, and likely longer than a year.  

In any event, I do find it as a questionable policy, especially without any notifications, even if they purportedly are engaged in such practices for "security reasons."  Least they can do is to attempt specific notifications of account holders, even if they might have some possible policy, specific notice seems to be the more fair way of going about such practices in order to lessen suspicions that they might be engaging in questionable practices.

Ralle414, they didn't even acknowledge what I said regarding the final wagers placed and the exact date they were placed. They just responded with a generic response regarding the 12 months. They did not say there was no balance at the time it was "stolen", only that they stole it....

I respond to their email with the following:

Hello I have many thoughts on the rule (including the standard across every legitimate sportsbook I’ve ever played at) but I do see the one you are referencing on your site, along with other posts that say you archive funds for security purposes. …

That being said, I went through my records on the last wager I placed with you guys and it was December 23, 2018. On December 23, 2018 I won my wagers placed. Therefore, it is literally impossible my balance was zero at the time. Please review the transaction history from that date, and please report back with the accurate information of what the balance was on December 23, 2018. If the balance shows 0 it is either because you guys deducted it manually, or someone hacked into my account. So please verify the last wager placed on my account, and what the balance was at that time. I believe my last login was a few days after my last wager placed. So before we get into the rule and all that, please confirm what I said above.

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They respond with the following:

Hello, funds are automatically archived after 90 days of inactivity. After 12 months without activity or login, accounts are permanently closed and data deleted. If you would like to create a new account, please let us know once you have done so and we will add a welcome back bonus for you. Thanks, Betcoin Security

I also remember those time when Betcoin was getting some good comments on the quality of their sportsbook despite what happened to the slots jackpot they didn't honor.

To end the case once in for all they should show some proofs or casino transactions if what they said is true and OP's account really didn't have any balance left since it's hard to believe when there's two different sides to the story.

In that case can't help them tagging as scammer with this case but on the basis of the terms and conditions that is questionable and morally not sound, can do with the neutral referencing this and letting others know about how they are trying to rip off their players who goes on inactive.

Yep, exactly what I said to them in my last set of responses...

Through the years, I have NEVER came across a site with your absurd rule. I have heard of sites doing either of the following:

A.) They have the right to freeze accounts after x period of time, but they will allow the player to recover the funds once they contact customer service and they simply reinstate the balance.

B.) They attempt to CONTACT the player and warn them about the inactivity, and if they do not hear back, then they have the right to deduct a small fee per month as a “maintenance fee.”

You guys did neither of the above. You waited 12 months, and then STOLE my money. I don’t like to use the word “stolen” lightly, especially in this industry, but that is exactly what happened here. 12 months? Are you kidding me?!? There are so many reasons a player may not come back in 1 single year and you guys are stealing my 3+ btc I know for a fact I had sitting in the account.

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I don't have screenshot proof of the balance, but when I went through my records I was able to track down the exact ending balance and it was over 3 btc. I WAS able to track down the date of my last placed wagers with them which I believe was December 23, 2018. (also above) They refused to acknowledge this and simply responded that the account was wiped out after 12 months.

Sorry to see you losing money like this. They should have atleast sent an email alerting you about your balance that they will be confiscating your balance. I can understand a site locking the account but keeping the balance records for the user to come back and retain it later but they are not entitled in any way as the owner of those funds. A slight maintenance fee is also good but this is really a nature of a "thief" I would say.

Do you have anything that could prove balance in betcoin.ag? I know you might not have I guess but still hoping for you having some so that community can help here.

Trust me in hindsight, I'm with you.

The last set of emails I posted above were sent on April 16th. (the second email was me quoting their POKER policy in which they try to contact poker players to warn them of the rule. For sports players, they DO NOT do this, they just steal the funds after 12 months and that's it) On April 19th, I sent a follow up email. I have not received a single response since. They are completely ignoring me.

Fair point, but if you google any offshore site and put the word "scam" at the end of it, you'll see plenty of posts on it. (even including the top sites like bookmaker and pinnacle)

I saw enough comments from seemingly legit outlets who made it seem like betcoin could be trusted with my funds. Again, I am kicking myself for not withdrawing when I had the chance, but family issues really took top priority for the last year. Gambling funds didn't even cross my mind until I was ready to play again.

I think it's partially the user's fault and the casino. Putting away your bitcoins in somebody else's wallet for a long time is like leaving it for them to steal. Nevertheless, I hope they find a way to give something back.

I think you cannot blame him anymore because he has already played there for a while but still, he should've just chosen another place to gamble.

Since your account is new and seeking for a site to play the best thing you do first is to go here (Scam accusation section) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=83.0 since by this you can identify if the site is good and doesn't have past and existing issues.

And since you already got compromised the best thing you could do is to send a email to them and wait for response if there's no response even if many days past and you don't know on when this thing will be resolved a scam accusation post will be good thing to do so that they will be alerted and people knows that there's an issue again on their site.

First of all you should do a simple search for any casino you intend to play with.If you would have read a lot of scam accusations against them with the top one being a huge jackpot being void to the player most probably you would have not opened an account with them.

Unfortunately you are on your own know as they are well known for cheating in a number of times.I hope a miracle happens and you get your funds back but I don’t think it will happen.

Hey everyone. Just need to share an experience I’ve had with betcoin.ag, one that I know will get some MMQB’s. (I am one of them in this case as well) I am providing a ton of info and communication between me and the site below, so hopefully I can make this mess of a situation as clear as possible. Here we go…

I have played on online sportsbooks on and off for many years now. I play for a while, then take a break sometimes and come back when I am ready to play again. I played on betcoin for a few months back in November/December 2018. When I first decided to take a break, I assumed it’d only be for a few months. But due to family issues I had to focus on, logging back into a sportsbook site was not at the top of my list and it turned into a longer break than I expected. I tried logging back into my account last week and could not login. I tried resetting my password, same issue. I went on live chat, and was told I needed to send an email to the security department. No big deal right? I know sites can temporarily suspend the account if they notice a long period of inactivity, but assumed I just needed to email, or go through some kind of verification to get it opened back up, both things I would’ve cooperated with if needed. I get the following response:

Hello, https://www.betcoin.ag/support/betcoinag-terms-service 7.10 Any account without login or activity for 12 months or longer will be closed and terminated including forfeiture of funds, if applicable. That said, we reviewed the account associated with this email address and there was no balance. If you would like to open a new account, please do so. Thanks, Betcoin.ag Support

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As soon as I read this, my heart sunk into my chest. FORFEITURE of funds?!? No balance?!? I didn’t know where to even start. This is not some small balance I had on there for fun. I had 3+ bitcoin sitting on the site. I reviewed my records and found the last wager I placed on the site was December 23, 2018. I respond to their email with the following:

Hello I have many thoughts on the rule (including the standard across every legitimate sportsbook I’ve ever played at) but I do see the one you are referencing on your site, along with other posts that say you archive funds for security purposes. …

That being said, I went through my records on the last wager I placed with you guys and it was December 23, 2018. On December 23, 2018 I won my wagers placed. Therefore, it is literally impossible my balance was zero at the time. Please review the transaction history from that date, and please report back with the accurate information of what the balance was on December 23, 2018. If the balance shows 0 it is either because you guys deducted it manually, or someone hacked into my account. So please verify the last wager placed on my account, and what the balance was at that time. I believe my last login was a few days after my last wager placed. So before we get into the rule and all that, please confirm what I said above.

******************

They respond with the following:

Hello, funds are automatically archived after 90 days of inactivity. After 12 months without activity or login, accounts are permanently closed and data deleted. If you would like to create a new account, please let us know once you have done so and we will add a welcome back bonus for you. Thanks, Betcoin Security

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I respond with the following:

I have played on online sportsbooks on and off for many years now. I play for a while, then take a break sometimes and come back when I am ready to play again. (Hence my activity, and why I did not withdraw at the time because I foolishly TRUSTED you guys would keep my funds safe) When I first decided to take a break, I assumed it’d only be for a few months. But due to family issues I had to focus on, logging back into a sportsbook site was not at the top of my list and it turned into a longer break than I expected. Through the years, I have NEVER came across a site with your absurd rule. I have heard of sites doing either of the following:

A.) They have the right to freeze accounts after x period of time, but they will allow the player to recover the funds once they contact customer service and they simply reinstate the balance.

B.) They attempt to CONTACT the player and warn them about the inactivity, and if they do not hear back, then they have the right to deduct a small fee per month as a “maintenance fee.”

You guys did neither of the above. You waited 12 months, and then STOLE my money. I don’t like to use the word “stolen” lightly, especially in this industry, but that is exactly what happened here. 12 months? Are you kidding me?!? There are so many reasons a player may not come back in 1 single year and you guys are stealing my 3+ btc I know for a fact I had sitting in the account.

On top of all this, YES it does say the rule you are referencing on terms and conditions. (Had to google to find, Posted January 2015) You also have the following article UNDER YOUR SUPPORT SECTION (way more visible than that absurd rule you have to dig to find) that reads the following…

What are Archived funds? Why do my funds say Archive? (Posted September 2017) When you experience a long period of inactivity, we place your funds into archived status to prevent unauthorized access of your funds. To reverse this and get access to your funds simply create a ticket from your email address here: http://www.betcoin.ag/support and we will credit your funds back to your main balance. We take security very seriously at Betcoin and will do whatever it takes to make sure your account is properly secured. Thank you and good luck.

****

Obviously after reading that, any player is to assume you guys can be trusted, and IF you remove funds, it’s for security purposes to protect the player. But ultimately they can trust leaving funds in your site if they decide to take a break as I did. If stealing players funds after 12 months was a possibility, it should have been listed THERE. Not in the terms and conditions you have to dig to find. Of course, in hindsight I should’ve withdrawn the funds as soon as I was done playing at the time, but I had no way of knowing this was even a remote possibility when the rest of the industry does NOT treat players this way.

Please let me know if we will be able to work something out to recover the 3+ btc sitting in the account. If not, I will surely be blasting this report across every single sports betting forum I know. (Bitcointalk, SBR, askgamblers, all of them) I researched the industry standard on this rule to confirm what I thought I already knew, and it’s exactly what I stated above. I don’t want it to come to that, but if so I’m sure your clients and potential clients will be as outraged as I am, ESPECIALLY with everything going on throughout the world right now. I can confirm my identity, whatever you guys want to gain back access to my funds. I am very confident if I end up going the public route, this will ultimately work itself out. But to save time I am sure it’s in both parties best interest to solve this between us. If not, I guess we’ll see what happens.

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Shortly after sending that, I come across their poker rule on the EXACT SAME SITUATION, and I send another follow up email:

Also the following is listed in POKER terms and conditions on YOUR site. So you give poker players proper warning, and clearly acknowledge how important it is, but you don't grant that to sports players?

9. DORMANT OR INACTIVE ACCOUNTS/ACCESS FEE: On or after the last day each calendar month, Betcoin shall be entitled to suspend any User account which has not had any log in activity or game play for the prior 12 month period. In such event, the balance of any funds balance in said account(s) shall be retained by Betcoin in a pooled segregated suspense account and maintained for a period of 60 days thereafter. Betcoin shall give notice to the User that his/her account has been inactive for more than 12 months. . Such notice shall be conclusively presumed to have been received by the User if sent by Betcoin by email to the email address of record provided by the User for said account. In the event that a User has opted – out from receiving emails from Betcoin, User shall be deemed to have waive any and all notice hereunder , In the event that a User shall validly claim said balance of suspense account funds within the 60 day holding period, Betcoin shall verify the identity and entitlement of said claimant (if any), may require an account holder to execute a written acknowledgment of any deposits funded by CC's, and, thereafter shall pay the portion of the suspense account due to such User. At the expiration of the 60 Day Holding Period, all such balance amounts which remain unclaimed in the suspense account without an active log-in for another period of 3 months shall escheat to Betcoin as an Access Fee and compensation for account maintenance and having provided User access to the Games during the 12 months prior to the Holding Period. The balance of funds in any User account closed by Betcoin due to User misconduct, fraud, or collusion may be seized and each such User shall forfeit any and all interest thereto. In the event that Betcoin shall receive notice that a User has died within the prior 12 months, the account balance(s) of such User shall be held pending presentation of proof of authority to claim such funds by the Executor or other authorized representative of the estate of the deceased User. In the event that a claim is made to Betcoin for an account balance by any person other than the User, Betcoin may require such claim to be proven in a court of law; any legal action by said claimant to prove such claim must be filed within 6 months of the date of such claim.

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Sorry for the mess above but just wanted to give as much info as possible to get the full story out. As I said in one of my emails to them, yes in hindsight I SHOULD have withdrawn all my money when I knew I’d be taking a break, but due to the family issues I was going through at the time, gambling funds and how I withdraw them was not my priority. That is on me, but either way it doesn’t give them an excuse to use this absurd rule to steal money from players.

It has been 6 days now since I sent the above messages with no response. I even sent a follow up a couple days later and that was ignored as well. So clearly betcoin is not going to work with me and here I am. Thoughts from the forum? Can someone help me? Thanks in advance.