Good news!
Alright guys. Today has been a great day to keep this ball rolling. I have contacted three hopeful flying members and have received USD deposits $15,000+. These were not share payments, rather pre payment on per hour costs of flying. That is they plan on flying and want this money to go towards the hourly fee we will be charging. A really good sign of cashflow towards the project. I think the next order of business would be to set up a credibility package for anybody who is interested. This will be reserved for members who are very active, hopefully they will chime in and confirm the verification I sent them. It will include my full name, address, drivers license, and utility bill. If you really think you are going to be investing 500+ btc I will be open to providing even MORE sensitive information.
Keep the questions rolling guys!
Topic: New aircraft "service" and lending opportunity (Read 1129 times)
For the most part yes, except it wouldn't be leasing as you know it because it would be co-owners operating it. As you can imagine the extra paper work and liability for numerous business entities to lease, own, and hold insurance gets to be a lot quickly. The reality is without getting more personal information that many people won't be interested in giving, it really needs to be done as a co-owners who allow others to operate. Others will be "operating" members.
Let me give you an example,
John, Jim, and Bob want to own a car. The car is $900. Bob who doesn't have a license knows he can make some money because he helped buy the car and will get a little every hour the car is driven plus some once the car is sold. They each pay $300 and buy the car. They know that it can be driven for no more than 24hrs a day, and that operating costs will be set at $10 per hour. Now each hour John or Jim drive it they are responsible for paying $12, the extra $2 going to Bob because he will never drive it. A year later the car is sold for $600 after being driven 65 hours. Bob walks away with $330, John and Jim considerably less but they were able to drive all year.
Bob in this case represent the co-owners who will not be operating the airplane. The $2 per hour is going towards his ROI and original investment.
The pencil is getting sharper, it just helps to have potential co-owners input on what they see as important to understand etc etc etc.
Let me give you an example,
John, Jim, and Bob want to own a car. The car is $900. Bob who doesn't have a license knows he can make some money because he helped buy the car and will get a little every hour the car is driven plus some once the car is sold. They each pay $300 and buy the car. They know that it can be driven for no more than 24hrs a day, and that operating costs will be set at $10 per hour. Now each hour John or Jim drive it they are responsible for paying $12, the extra $2 going to Bob because he will never drive it. A year later the car is sold for $600 after being driven 65 hours. Bob walks away with $330, John and Jim considerably less but they were able to drive all year.
Bob in this case represent the co-owners who will not be operating the airplane. The $2 per hour is going towards his ROI and original investment.
The pencil is getting sharper, it just helps to have potential co-owners input on what they see as important to understand etc etc etc.
Depreciation for a hull value of $425,000 would average at 7% per year for the first 5 year period.
I think I understand what you are getting at. The poll is really geared towards purchasing a share, not the business operating model. Lending would in fact be buying a "share" of the airplane, whether you will be a operator or not will determine whether you will be able to receive a ROI. Tangible expenses, depreciation, etc will fall in the laps of co-owner(s) who is actively operating. Therefore if you were to buy a share, but not operatre your ROI would be calculated on your share value at time of purchase. As profit is generated your share would be paid back in a manner voted on by members (smalle accounts first, larger accounts, all equally, whatever). There would be no early payment unless you were to sell your share. Shares could be sold with notice given, and for no more than the share value at time of sale.
Since most of this community won't be able to actually operator, the ROI is strictly for co-owners who are NOT operating, as in most of this community.
Does that answer your question?
I think I understand what you are getting at. The poll is really geared towards purchasing a share, not the business operating model. Lending would in fact be buying a "share" of the airplane, whether you will be a operator or not will determine whether you will be able to receive a ROI. Tangible expenses, depreciation, etc will fall in the laps of co-owner(s) who is actively operating. Therefore if you were to buy a share, but not operatre your ROI would be calculated on your share value at time of purchase. As profit is generated your share would be paid back in a manner voted on by members (smalle accounts first, larger accounts, all equally, whatever). There would be no early payment unless you were to sell your share. Shares could be sold with notice given, and for no more than the share value at time of sale.
Since most of this community won't be able to actually operator, the ROI is strictly for co-owners who are NOT operating, as in most of this community.
Does that answer your question?
Sort of. Not really. It sounds as if you are really describing two different businesses:
The 'Cap' business would buy a plane, and lease it to the 'Op' business. The returns from leasing would be allocated to the shareholders in the 'Cap' business.
The 'Op' business would operate the leased plane in a manner to maximize returns to the shareholders of the 'Op' business.
Is that anything near what you are trying to convey? Whether yes or no, I think you'll need to sharpen your pencil a bit before simpletons like myself can get a clear picture of what you are proposing.
Regardless, the following looks kinda red-flaggy to me: "your share would be paid back in a manner voted on by members (smalle accounts first, larger accounts, all equally, whatever)". As does "Shares could be sold with notice given, and for no more than the share value at time of sale." I wouldn't want to purchase shares of an entity that did not return the same per share, nor in one in which I would be barred from transferring shares to another.
I've not yet voted. Is the monthly % ROI you are seeking input upon a cash flow basis, or with depreciation factored in?
I'm not really sure what your question is. The monthly ROI would be on whatever you originally put in. As cash flow came in via rentals or leasing, payouts would most likely start with the smaller accounts and move up to the larger ones. As each aircraft is paid off there would be another round of "lending" to acquire another one, in each case being secured by the aircraft. At the moment I have enough potential members who will fly where this could be paid off in .5-1.5 years.
This would be a cooperative. Most action taken would be up to a vote.
Quite simple really. You speak of a '% monthly return'. Depending on how you define 'return', it leads to two different answers.
One way is via cashflow: All income - all tangible expenses = cashflow
One way includes depreciation: all income - all tangible expenses - depreciation = profit
In a capital-intensive business (which I would presume this to be), the cashflow and the profit would likely be wildly divergent figures.
Depreciation for a hull value of $425,000 would average at 7% per year for the first 5 year period.
I think I understand what you are getting at. The poll is really geared towards purchasing a share, not the business operating model. Lending would in fact be buying a "share" of the airplane, whether you will be a operator or not will determine whether you will be able to receive a ROI. Tangible expenses, depreciation, etc will fall in the laps of co-owner(s) who is actively operating. Therefore if you were to buy a share, but not operatre your ROI would be calculated on your share value at time of purchase. As profit is generated your share would be paid back in a manner voted on by members (smalle accounts first, larger accounts, all equally, whatever). There would be no early payment unless you were to sell your share. Shares could be sold with notice given, and for no more than the share value at time of sale.
Since most of this community won't be able to actually operator, the ROI is strictly for co-owners who are NOT operating, as in most of this community.
Does that answer your question?
I've not yet voted. Is the monthly % ROI you are seeking input upon a cash flow basis, or with depreciation factored in?
I'm not really sure what your question is. The monthly ROI would be on whatever you originally put in. As cash flow came in via rentals or leasing, payouts would most likely start with the smaller accounts and move up to the larger ones. As each aircraft is paid off there would be another round of "lending" to acquire another one, in each case being secured by the aircraft. At the moment I have enough potential members who will fly where this could be paid off in .5-1.5 years.
This would be a cooperative. Most action taken would be up to a vote.
Quite simple really. You speak of a '% monthly return'. Depending on how you define 'return', it leads to two different answers.
One way is via cashflow: All income - all tangible expenses = cashflow
One way includes depreciation: all income - all tangible expenses - depreciation = profit
In a capital-intensive business (which I would presume this to be), the cashflow and the profit would likely be wildly divergent figures.
Speaking of depreciation, how long are these airplanes expected to laast?
I've not yet voted. Is the monthly % ROI you are seeking input upon a cash flow basis, or with depreciation factored in?
I'm not really sure what your question is. The monthly ROI would be on whatever you originally put in. As cash flow came in via rentals or leasing, payouts would most likely start with the smaller accounts and move up to the larger ones. As each aircraft is paid off there would be another round of "lending" to acquire another one, in each case being secured by the aircraft. At the moment I have enough potential members who will fly where this could be paid off in .5-1.5 years.
This would be a cooperative. Most action taken would be up to a vote.
Quite simple really. You speak of a '% monthly return'. Depending on how you define 'return', it leads to two different answers.
One way is via cashflow: All income - all tangible expenses = cashflow
One way includes depreciation: all income - all tangible expenses - depreciation = profit
In a capital-intensive business (which I would presume this to be), the cashflow and the profit would likely be wildly divergent figures.
I've not yet voted. Is the monthly % ROI you are seeking input upon a cash flow basis, or with depreciation factored in?
I'm not really sure what your question is. The monthly ROI would be on whatever you originally put in. As cash flow came in via rentals or leasing, payouts would most likely start with the smaller accounts and move up to the larger ones. As each aircraft is paid off there would be another round of "lending" to acquire another one, in each case being secured by the aircraft. At the moment I have enough potential members who will fly where this could be paid off in .5-1.5 years.
This would be a cooperative. Most action taken would be up to a vote.
I've not yet voted. Is the monthly % ROI you are seeking input upon a cash flow basis, or with depreciation factored in?
This would be a good place for non-flying "owners" to ask their questions. Where their investment will be held, how fast will you be able to get it returned, etc etc.
Rube7x
Rube7x
Here is the link to the developing service. This should be good!
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-community-airplaneflying-club-104852
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-community-airplaneflying-club-104852
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