New Canadian Anti Money-Laundering (AML) Laws affecting CIBC cash deposits

Chris!

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Quote from: Soros Shorts on December 05, 2015, 09:18:29 AM

Quote from: NorrisK on December 05, 2015, 05:50:51 AM

Since when is a cash deposit to a bank anonymous? You always need to give your account details and I guess 99% of all cash deposits are to your own account anyway. You will never be anonymous if you use banks.

It was not about anonymity but a matter of convenience. It used to be common to have the localbitoins buyer physically deposit money into your bank account using a deposit slip and writing your name/account number on it. He would then post a picture of the slip into the localbitcoins transaction chat (you could also verify the deposit online), and you would release the coins from escrow to him. The buyer did not have to be near you - they just needed to be near a branch of your bank.

Now with banks asking for ID it follows that they will not let a third party deposit cash into your account. Meaning that non-face to face cash transactions are no longer possible for those banks.

That's what I'm afraid of too. First you require ID and make it very inconvenient for people. They will most likely make it less and less convenient so you have to choose a more modern method of sending funds. Then soon after you completely cut off the ability for 3rd party deposits. With this just coming into affect now, I don't see it happening any time in the near future but it opens the doors for more restrictions later.

Quote from: VirosaGITS on December 05, 2015, 06:36:24 PM

Quote from: aso118 on December 05, 2015, 06:01:44 PM

Seems surprising that there is no minimum exempt amount.
The screws seem to be getting tighter.

Has anyone that posted here actually read the CIBC ANN? Its just basic KYC compliance. Its only very loosely related to Bitcoin and its already a rule implemented by most services most of us use for currency conversion. It does not feel like this is targeted at BTC in any way.

Verifying your identity to allow linking a bank account and raising your buy/sell limit is exactly that. KYC.

It's fairly obvious it wasn't intended to affect Bitcoin exchange. It's changed because of new AML laws. All I was pointing out is it will affect localbitcoins and p2p exchanges that use cash deposits to a bank account in exchange for Bitcoins. If nothing else it will be a minor annoyance.

I wasn't talking about linking a bank account. Of course you would always have to abide by KYC regulations for that. That hasn't changed at all in these recent rulings.

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: aso118 on December 05, 2015, 06:01:44 PM

Seems surprising that there is no minimum exempt amount.
The screws seem to be getting tighter.

Has anyone that posted here actually read the CIBC ANN? Its just basic KYC compliance. Its only very loosely related to Bitcoin and its already a rule implemented by most services most of us use for currency conversion. It does not feel like this is targeted at BTC in any way.

Verifying your identity to allow linking a bank account and raising your buy/sell limit is exactly that. KYC.

aso118

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Seems surprising that there is no minimum exempt amount.
The screws seem to be getting tighter.

Chris!

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Quote from: BitcoinBud44 on December 05, 2015, 01:28:08 AM

That link is for small businesses. I'm not a Canadian, but I don't think this would effect normal day-to-day customers of the bank.

Like I said, this link is for small business but this does affect everyone. I did a cash deposit for a localbitcoins deal and had to give them all of this information.

Quote from: Amph on December 05, 2015, 03:56:18 AM

i will never be tired of repeating this, but people should really consider spending bitcoin directly and stop exchanging with fiat, in a matter of second all those fiat releated problems will vanish

and you become really free to operate with your coins, like it was intended to be, there are already plenty of service that accept bitcoin directly with a discount also, why people are still there exchanging...besides trading which is different because afterward you buy bitcoin again

I agree yet disagree at the same time. I like to spend Bitcoins whenever possible but my job pays me fiat. If I can get a job to pay me 100BTC/yr I'd be set. Unfortunately that's not the world we live in (...yet?)

Duomo

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The idea that identity is hidden in the banking system is completely false. The centralized banking authority knows who is transacting various deposits, withdrawals, and other transactions with money. This idea of an "anonymous" deposit is non-existence if you will. It's been known that Swiss banks account (foreign assets in general) held by Americans must be disclosed to the government when they file their taxes. The old fashioned days with with an account and an "associated number" that identifies an individual are long gone.

fr4nkthetank

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Now the money is free, and so the people will be

Well...you cant really use the banking system without them knowing who you are. You are just going to have to live with that. Other than that, local bitcoins or local listing , meet in person, cash,. public place and get a coffee, transact and wait for confirmation.

Soros Shorts

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Quote from: NorrisK on December 05, 2015, 05:50:51 AM

Since when is a cash deposit to a bank anonymous? You always need to give your account details and I guess 99% of all cash deposits are to your own account anyway. You will never be anonymous if you use banks.

It was not about anonymity but a matter of convenience. It used to be common to have the localbitoins buyer physically deposit money into your bank account using a deposit slip and writing your name/account number on it. He would then post a picture of the slip into the localbitcoins transaction chat (you could also verify the deposit online), and you would release the coins from escrow to him. The buyer did not have to be near you - they just needed to be near a branch of your bank.

Now with banks asking for ID it follows that they will not let a third party deposit cash into your account. Meaning that non-face to face cash transactions are no longer possible for those banks.

Kprawn

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Quote from: joe 90 on December 05, 2015, 06:57:29 AM

Quote from: NorrisK on December 05, 2015, 05:50:51 AM

Since when is a cash deposit to a bank anonymous? You always need to give your account details and I guess 99% of all cash deposits are to your own account anyway. You will never be anonymous if you use banks.

There are cameras in all banks watching everything you do so it's never truly anonymous in any bank. I'm sure they save all their video footage and pass it onto the police if they are asked for it. All bank ATMs have hidden video cameras recording your face, and they probably have hidden cameras in all the desks where you pay in. Attempting to hide your face from the cameras you can see won't keep you anonymous, the hidden cameras will capture your face whatever you try.

These days surveillance cameras are everywhere... We even have infrared cameras within Cinemas these days {possibly to stop pirating of movies} You cannot go anywhere

within London, without being watched... A person2person exchange from fiat to Bitcoin with Localbitcoins would rouse some suspicion with the authorities. I always thought the

Canadians were so Liberal minded..... who would have thought, they would go this way. Sad

Spoetnik

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FUD Philanthropist™

Seems like common sense laws to me actually.
And if one Schedule 1 CAN bank is doing it i bet all of them will.
And yeah HSBC falls under that group too !

It's the way it is these days..
It's also why the FBI arrested guys in a Florida parking lot years ago after meeting through Localbitcoins.
I believe the amount was like 30k trade for BTC..
And i think the US limit is 10k ?
In other words once you go over the limit you are highly likely to be investigated.

joe 90

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Quote from: NorrisK on December 05, 2015, 05:50:51 AM

Since when is a cash deposit to a bank anonymous? You always need to give your account details and I guess 99% of all cash deposits are to your own account anyway. You will never be anonymous if you use banks.

There are cameras in all banks watching everything you do so it's never truly anonymous in any bank. I'm sure they save all their video footage and pass it onto the police if they are asked for it. All bank ATMs have hidden video cameras recording your face, and they probably have hidden cameras in all the desks where you pay in. Attempting to hide your face from the cameras you can see won't keep you anonymous, the hidden cameras will capture your face whatever you try.

Denker

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Quote from: NorrisK on December 05, 2015, 05:50:51 AM

Since when is a cash deposit to a bank anonymous? You always need to give your account details and I guess 99% of all cash deposits are to your own account anyway. You will never be anonymous if you use banks.

Right!
I wanted to write the same.
In my country it doesn't matter to which bank as I go.
If I wanna deposit for instance 500 bucks on someone else's bank accounts the first thing I will get asked for is my ID!
Cash deposits anonymously to a bank account is not possible.

NorrisK

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Since when is a cash deposit to a bank anonymous? You always need to give your account details and I guess 99% of all cash deposits are to your own account anyway. You will never be anonymous if you use banks.

ATguy

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Quote from: Chris! on December 04, 2015, 07:40:42 PM

If you're purchasing Bitcoins, on localbitcoins let's say, and you choose to do a cash deposit into a CIBC bank account you are now REQUIRED to give the teller your name, address, occupation, date of birth and ID. If you already have a bank account at CIBC they can look you up and make a note that you're depositing $X into this other person's account.

You use bank in this case to transfer money so the ID for cash deposit at bank is not very surprising.

If your worry about anonymity, you should consider paying with cash directly to the person in face to face trade and not doing basically bank transfers.

Amph

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Quote from: franky1 on December 05, 2015, 04:23:33 AM

Quote from: Amph on December 05, 2015, 03:56:18 AM

i will never be tired of repeating this, but people should really consider spending bitcoin directly and stop exchanging with fiat, in a matter of second all those fiat releated problem will vanish

and you become really free to operate with your coins, like it was intended to be, there are already plenty of service that accept bitcoin directly with a discount also, why people are still there exchanging...besides trading which is different because afterward you buy bitcoin again

because average joe, new to fiat will want to get rid of their fiat somehow to then obtain bitcoin. so exchanging to fiat needs to still happen.
also
because some service operators (businesses) still need to pay suppliers/staff in fiat so exchanging to fiat needs to still happen

well but at least try to limit it, instead they are not only doing what you are saying, but they exchange 90%+ of what they have in fiat, because of fud and stuff like that

franky1

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Quote from: Amph on December 05, 2015, 03:56:18 AM

i will never be tired of repeating this, but people should really consider spending bitcoin directly and stop exchanging with fiat, in a matter of second all those fiat releated problem will vanish

and you become really free to operate with your coins, like it was intended to be, there are already plenty of service that accept bitcoin directly with a discount also, why people are still there exchanging...besides trading which is different because afterward you buy bitcoin again

because average joe, new to fiat will want to get rid of their fiat somehow to then obtain bitcoin. so exchanging to fiat needs to still happen.
also
because some service operators (businesses) still need to pay suppliers/staff in fiat so exchanging to fiat needs to still happen

Amph

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i will never be tired of repeating this, but people should really consider spending bitcoin directly and stop exchanging with fiat, in a matter of second all those fiat releated problems will vanish

and you become really free to operate with your coins, like it was intended to be, there are already plenty of service that accept bitcoin directly with a discount also, why people are still there exchanging...besides trading which is different because afterward you buy bitcoin again

BitcoinBud44

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That link is for small businesses. I'm not a Canadian, but I don't think this would effect normal day-to-day customers of the bank.

jaylin

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Banks have been getting more and more anal over bitcoin related activity. Its quite a bother.

VirosaGITS

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Quote from: Chris! on December 04, 2015, 07:40:42 PM

There are new laws that took affect recently and CIBC has implemented a new anti money-laundering requirement in all of their branches involving cash deposits.

If you're purchasing Bitcoins, on localbitcoins let's say, and you choose to do a cash deposit into a CIBC bank account you are now REQUIRED to give the teller your name, address, occupation, date of birth and ID. If you already have a bank account at CIBC they can look you up and make a note that you're depositing $X into this other person's account.

What does this mean? You can't anonymously deposit cash into a bank account anymore. Before all you typically needed for small amounts was a signature for the transaction.

I thought I would pass on this info in case anyone was hoping to do a (somewhat) anonymous cash deposit into a CIBC bank account. I'm not sure if this has taken affect at all of the big 5 banks in Canada as of yet.

Source: https://www.cibc.com/ca/small-business/business-accts/branch-transaction-requirements.html
The link provided is for small business accounts but it is the same case for personal accounts as well.

It doesn't really seem related to Bitcoin much. Cash deposits done from bitcoin exchanges are not anonymous, this kind of sound more like a wire transfer from a person to another?

Chris!

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There are new laws that took affect recently and CIBC has implemented a new anti money-laundering requirement in all of their branches involving cash deposits.

If you're purchasing Bitcoins, on localbitcoins let's say, and you choose to do a cash deposit into a CIBC bank account you are now REQUIRED to give the teller your name, address, occupation, date of birth and ID. If you already have a bank account at CIBC they can look you up and make a note that you're depositing $X into this other person's account.

What does this mean? You can't anonymously deposit cash into a bank account anymore. Before all you typically needed for small amounts was a signature for the transaction.

I thought I would pass on this info in case anyone was hoping to do a (somewhat) anonymous cash deposit into a CIBC bank account. I'm not sure if this has taken affect at all of the big 5 banks in Canada as of yet.

Source: https://www.cibc.com/ca/small-business/business-accts/branch-transaction-requirements.html
The link provided is for small business accounts but it is the same case for personal accounts as well.

Topic: New Canadian Anti Money-Laundering (AML) Laws affecting CIBC cash deposits (Read 980 times)