Topic: New Ledger native desktop app to be released on July 9th, 2018 (Read 647 times)

Having a good AV and firewall setup (with rarely anyone setting up a firewall on his own) is good.
But having no incident in the past, doesn't mean it is secure for the future.




When having access to the machine, it is probably about the same difficulty.
But GAINING access to the machine is easier on windows 7.

It is fine to use any OS you want.. just pointed out that an mostly outdated OS is more vulnerable overall than the newest version up-to-date.




Not necessarily.
You can't just look at one thing when caring about securing your system.

There is no one single solution to prevent attacks etc. happening. Multiple layers of security interact to minimize the attack surface as far as possible.
Different technologies have to be combined to properly secure a network.

As an example, only looking at the OS, there are 17 public exploits available for windows 7, compared to 0 available for windows 10.

I am using Windows 7 last 8-9 years without any security problem, but always with security&critical updates from Microsoft and with best AV+Firewall+Antimalware. I do not see that Windows 10 is better in any way then Windows 7, it is better only in spying on users. Clipboard malware can affect users on any Windows OS, why you think that it is easier to manipulate with Ledger Live on W7 then on W10? This is a safety issue that concerns of user security software (AV/Firewall), not as you say outdated OS.
 


Thanks for confirmation that is working on W7, it seems that Ledger is not accurate with prerequisites which confused many users. I agree that Linux is much better solution, and with the purchase of a new laptop I will definitely try it out.


I always use Electrum in combination with Ledger Nano S, I got used to it and it is much better UI then Chrome app and probably from Ledger Live. Regarding your opinion of stolen coins, you should also know that private keys are protected inside Ledger, and only way that coins can be stolen is as Bob123 point out by clipboard malware, but Ledger always ask you to confirm sending and change address - if you can do that then you deserve to be hacked...

I recently did some work in an establishment dealing with sensitive personal information using Windows XP on all their computers and servers. *shudder*

They were using various software packages that had since been abandoned, weren't compatible with newer Windows, and didn't have the money to buy new software. So they will stick with XP indefinitely.

Ledger Live works on Windows 7 but isn't officially supported. There is quite a long discussion about it above your post.

Is Windows 7 supported?

...Or he can still use the Chrome add-on. I am still using it ( a bit lazy recently) And thinking about it, anyone knows up to when it will still work? (Until the addon is removed from the store?)


You could be surprised seeing all the companies still using it, and not only the departments not much dealing with data

Oh absolutely, but using Windows 7 at all isn't recommended.

Oeleo, it may be working and installed but it's not recommended by the manufacturer.

https://support.ledgerwallet.com/hc/en-us/articles/360006395553-Download-and-install-Ledger-Live

Just booted up my old system - can confirm that Ledger Live is still working absolutely fine on Windows 7:

Big coincidence, we are having 2 discussions regarding OS and ledger nano.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/problem-with-ledger-nano-s-manager-is-i-need-64-bit-pc-to-download-it-5016110


I don't believe a way around would be a nice solution here. You would be using an unsupported OS on ledger nano. Your coins may just be stolen. You are using a software without any support and out of specifications recommended by the manufacturer.

If you like windows 7 and ledger nano so much, why don't you use Electrum? It's 100% compatible with ledger nano and windows 7.
https://support.ledgerwallet.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005161925-How-to-use-Electrum-with-your-Nano-S

I believe this is the best solution for you.

Electrum also gives you higher control over your coins, fees, transactions, keys etc...

If you use altcoins,this may not solve all of your problems...

Windows 10 is an absolute shit-show in terms of privacy. It tracks pretty much everything you do and calls home to Microsoft constantly, even if you turn all the privacy settings to maximum. And don't even get me started on Cortana. I was given a Windows 10 laptop for work - spent pretty much an entire day tweaking and disabling things in the Group Policy Editor and Regedit before I was happy to even put my email address in it. I certainly wouldn't use it for anything to do with crypto.

I've used Ledger Live's monitoring feature on Windows 7 (64 bit) and it worked just fine - I wasn't even aware their requirements said it must be Windows 10. I would second bob123's point about Linux being a better choice, however.

Most data collection can be turned off (even though not everything through the GUI settings, registry entries required).
But i understand your concern. Then why don't you switch to linux ? There are a lot of distro's which are easily understandable by windows user.

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That's wrong to assume. The only thing you get with an older OS is worse performance and more vulnerabilities.

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Sure, you CAN use a hardware wallet on an infected PC. But most user can't properly use a PC. And human error will result in threads calling ledger scammy and buggy.
Windows 7 should be regarded outdated. A lot of vulnerabilities aren't being fixed by microsoft. Only the most dangerous ones are.
You are risking all sensitive information on your machine (not the seed of your hardware wallet) when using windows 7.

Calling an OS 'safe' is tough.. It is not the OS which makes a system secure. It is the whole setup, the network, user habits, etc.. The OS is just a small part of a safe/secure system.
And windows is - by far - the least secured OS around..
Without any advanced mechanisms.. your windows machine will be compromised very fast.. A linux machine most probably won't. 

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Your nano s itself won't be vulnerable.

But it is way easier to compromise your machine and try(!) to manipulate the ledger live software. And in case of you not double checking the tx details on your nano s, someone could slip you his address to send the funds to.
If this was to happen, the first one to be accused is ledger..

I understand their approach. People should ALWAYS use up-to-date software.
IMO old OS's shouldn't be supported at all.. by no company/developer.

It is not true that Microsoft is stopped support for Windows 7, this support will be end in January 14, 2020 .



I just do not like Windows 10, especially because that OS is collects a large amount of data from users - most of that can be manually adjusted, but this is just one big spy software. Therefore I consider older OS much more user friendly when it comes to privacy.

Since here is a case about hardware wallet and such wallet should be safe for using even in infected device I do not see why Ledger give users only Windows 10 as option... Windows 7 is not outdated, there are still updates and it is safe OS - and Ledger Live is only UI, how can I be vulnerable if using Ledger on Windows 7 (with good AV+Firewall+Antimalware) ?

Probably because using an outdated OS (with all the vulnerabilities and unpatched exploits available) causes too much security risks to support it when marketing a secure product.

It is definitely advised to NOT use it anymore. Especially if your computer contains sensitive or valuable information.

Windows 10 was available for free for quite some time now. They have even extended the free-upgrade-timeframe multiple times.

And it seems that currently (even tho stated that a free upgrade is no longer possible) if you download the official windows media creation tool, you'll be able to upgrade to windows 10 for free.
If you have a valid product key, it will stay valid in windows 10.

Microsoft has stopped providing support for Windows 7 for a few years now. While Windows 8 doens't have mainstream support but still do have extended support. I don't think it's wise to play around with money in a "outdated" OS. Why don't you just update it to Windows 10?

I did not have the need to install Ledger Live so far, but now I am surprised that Windows 7&8 are not supported, it is really an unpleasant surprise for me. I really do not understand decision of Ledger regarding this, there is so many users who still use older versions of OS. What is the reason for this, and is there any way around to use Ledger Live in Windows 7 maybe?

I won't know that there's a new update until going this board and dropped to see this post.

Downloading it now, it seems that others feed back makes me excite to see the whole new desktop version.

I think their marketing must be good. I've seen friends I never expected to own crypto with these, some people just keep it on their keychain. (Personally I would never carry one around with me, that's just painting a huge target on your back).

Ok, I understand now. By the way, a little off-topic but Ledger sold +1 million wallets in 2017, It's quite impressive, I couldn't imagine such results already. Samsung, Siemens and Google’s ventures are starting to get interested in the company. (surely with funding, I hope it's going to sell to them lol)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/oliversmith/2018/07/09/french-crypto-wallet-ledger-is-solving-bitcoins-biggest-flaw-for-financial-giants/#19da5b0f3ca1

Also I'm not sure if Firefox allows extensions to communicate over USB ports like Chrome apps did, which is essential for them.

I also prefer to run most things with a dark theme. It seems like this has already been request on the Reddit Megathread, and the Ledger team have acknowledged the request.

Probably because Chrome apps can run "more standalone". There are Chrome extensions and Chrome apps. With it, you could access the Ledger apps without directly opening your browser, while in Firefox, the wallet would have to be "built-in" in the browser (like your regular Adblock that opens in a little window when you click at their icon next to the URL bar).

Yes, I know and agree the user interface is not the most important. I was just expecting something better looking and currently, I prefer the old interface. At least we can get rid of the browser extension. I am curious to know, anyone knows why they never built an extension for Firefox?

Some third party apps seem not to work natively with the new desktop app (ETC seems to work now, NEO still doesn't). Even though I don't own a Ledger Nano S anymore, I really like the new app. I don't understand why everything always has to be white these days. I prefer dark interfaces since it's more convenient to use them in the evening.

Moving away from Chrome is undoubtedly more important, but I wouldn't say the interface is irrelevant. However, I really like the new interface. I've always been one for a minimalist and zero-clutter look, and I think it achieves that well while still being easy to use.

Interface os irrelevant .
They can make a new one anytime.
What is important is get rid of chrome spyware.

The wallet is still in its early days. What if the new wallet isn't working on someone's else computer? Let them fix the bugs and wait until everybody migrates to the new wallet.

Also, removing the old versions of a working wallet isn't something very smart to do. They won't update it, but anyone can use it while still supported.

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P.S: Careful with the double posts.

I like the new one as well. I don't see anything wrong with that flat, clean style. That kind of style is everywhere these days too. I prefer this to something that's a lot more busy.

EDIT:
Seems that they've released it, got this link from their Twitter page: https://www.ledgerwallet.com/live

I find it strange that they put a link to the legacy Chrome apps on that page, considering that Chrome apps won't be alive for much longer, and they could just put those on a separate download page.

EDIT: Since they're not listed on the download page, here are the checksums/hashes for the Windows binary

I prefer the new one. (well, there's no accounting for taste...)

Also, having an all-in-one dashboard is what matters the most (at least for me).

https://imgur.com/a/0pagvBc

Is it really the interface? I laughed when I saw it 
Sorry but the user interface is ugly, there is nothing special, it even looks like an alpha version  It made me think about something done with Bootstrap.
I prefer the old design by far.

So I've just downloaded and used Ledger Live with my Ledger Nano. Some first impressions:

When using it with a pre-initialized device, you have to first answer two security questions ("Did you choose your PIN code by yourself?" and "Did you save your recovery phrase by yourself?"), and it then performs a security check on your device to confirm it is genuine. Nice feature to help stop the second-hand scams that we saw earlier this year.

You can set a password to stop Ledger Liver being opened and any offline data (such as portfolio tracking) being accessed. This is obviously entirely separate from the security on the hardware wallet itself.

The interface is smooth and sleek - see the album of screenshots in the post above this one. It is very easy to navigate and gives on screen instructions about when and where you need to navigate on your hardware wallet.

My only complaint is this - The portfolio tracker will only track coins with native Ledger compatibility - Bitcoin, Ethereum, Dash, Ripple, PivX, Litecoin, etc. It does not support coins that use Ledger with a separate wallet - Neo, Ark, Stellar, Nano, all ERC20 tokens, etc. I had really hoped to be able to do away with third party apps like Delta or Blockfolio and have my Ledger monitor all my accounts in real time. Unfortunately this is not yet the case.

They actually have "Release Candidates" binaries for Linux, Windows and Mac available on Github: https://github.com/LedgerHQ/ledger-live-desktop/releases


Album of screenshots here: https://imgur.com/a/0pagvBc

Yes, it is. You can find it here. It's written in C++. You should not have any problems with compiling it yourself. It doesn't require much to download and the installation process is quite easy. Everything is described in the link above.

I have sold my Ledger some time ago. Can anyone make some screenshots for me or record a video?

Is it available on github? What language is it written in, and how difficult was it to compile?

Initially, they will only support the already supported coins (28 cryptocurrencies).

I compiled the wallet myself and it's looking dope.

https://www.ledger.fr/2018/02/23/announcing-new-ledger-wallet-desktop-mobile-applications/

T-1 day can't wait. I am also hoping they support more currencies asap.

The Chrome app looks like a cheap solution as if they didn't know how to create a native desktop app. I am not saying it's easy to create nor I know how to but it was the very first impression I got at first. And more when I saw there isn't an extension for Firefox/Palemoon/Seamonkey.
If you care about your privacy today you need to use 100% open source solutions, and still, then you need some extras measures..
By the way, there is a proverb saying "Sometimes, giving up your privacy is a little like going to the dentist and we have let him have access that no one's ever had."

Not only Google, if you just use Windows OS amount of data that is collected by Microsoft is huge and not to mention Facebook, Twitter or any other social platform that exists today. It's a business worth tens of billions of dollars, and everyone wants their share of the cake.

I think it is very hard or even impossible keep complete aninimity on internet, and there is a public data revealed by Snowden about NSA attempts to identifying users since 2013. So regarding privacy using Chrome app or Ledger desktop app there is no big difference.

What's the most important thing regarding desktop wallet is that user will have all coins in one interface which will facilitate using of Ledger. It is nice idea, but we need to be a little more patient and see how this will work in practice.

What bitmover probably wanted to say is that google is not able to extract the xpub key from the chrome application (unless ledger did some bad mistakes).
While the xpub key is being shared with an application, google has not the power to steal it from inside the application.

For google to steal your xpub key, you would have to install their wallet and open the corresponding application on your nano s. THEN google could have access to your xpub.


Google does already know way too much about their user. I honestly don't want to know what kind of information they are gathering just by downloading and opening a chrome application..

The xpub is the extended public key from which all of the addresses in the wallet are generated. It leaves the device so that the wallet can display your addresses and retrieve balances. It does not give control of your coins to anybody that has it, but it does reveal all current and future addresses.

This is the problem we are talking about. This is a privacy risk. Not only a risk, this is a privacy issue.



That´s not even possible, as this data never leaves your ledger nano. And google would never do that.

What they do is what they say in their privacy police, which is something like "everything you do here we will sell to third party"

Okay

Thanx my friend this interest news i think

As much as I hate Chrome, I don't really think it's as much of a privacy risk as some people might make it out to be. Sure, when you install the app, Google knows that you searched for and installed the ledger chrome app. But they're not stealing your xpub from the app, nothing like that.

That said, I am happy to not have to rely on Chrome because with that said, I don't want Google having a big list of ledger owners.

Chrome app disadvantage  is not about security, but privacy.
Google chrome is stealing your personal data and selling to companies. If you use ledger nano app on crhome, you are probably going to see ads related to crypto.

It´s may even be considered a security risk, as now someone else knows you own crypto...

The thing is, because of the security model of the ledger devices, you don't have to worry about the platform you use it on, as long as you actually use the device to verify everything.

I'm actually really excited about this. A password protected read only dashboard view of all your coins at once. The screenshot they provide of it also looks really slick. And they say they are working on a mobile application. You might be able to do away entirely with Delta/Blockfolio/App-of-your-choice, and just use your Ledger for everything.

Thats the same thing which makes me feel quite uncomfortable when accessing my nano s.
It just doesn't feel right to install google chrome and use a chrome application to access your cryptos, especially on linux  

I am definitely looking forward to use ther native application. For BTC we can use electrum to bypass the usage of chrome.
But there aren't proper wallets available for other coins (e.g. ETH). And im not a big fan of MEW :7


Lets see how long it takes until the application is released and how long the 'future releases' with additional features will take.

It"s good news for me too because I found it a bit boring to have to go through Chrome and install/use an application and another problem is it's we can't get it on Palemoon.
I will let others people testing it for me during the first days  

Chrome is useless to me too. I have to keep that spyware on my computer just to use my ledger nano.

I didn't see any information about what language they're writing it in, does anybody know? Just curious.

I'll do what I do with most new software releases - I'll continue to use the Chrome app for maybe a month or so, to give them time to discover and fix most of the inevitable bugs and errors in the desktop app. But yes, happy we can finally move away from Chrome.

Finally, we have a date when desktop app will be hopefully released and by comments from posted tweet it's possible to Ledger release desktop app even before in case Chrome app stop working before officially specified date. I hope that before release desktop app will be tested to all errors and bugs, but we all know only users will be real test at the end. Google Chrome app will also work until Google shut it down, so it will be theoretically possible to use both apps.

Thank god. Chrome apps are being depreciated and I never used them with the exception of ledger.

https://twitter.com/LedgerHQ/status/1003944606868832256


I'm excited to finally remove the Chrome dependency. Since I don't use Chrome on my Linux-based laptop, I will be happy to finally be able to access my Ledger device from it.