New York launches RFP for new casinos rising the taxation to 64%

DoublerHunter

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Quote from: mu_enrico on October 29, 2021, 12:34:45 PM

Nice! Tax the rich and then give the money back to the poor! Casino is for rich people after all, so let them suffer!
It's all sunshine and rainbow until casinos fleeing NY causing no job creation and less tax revenue. Any good socialist argument?

^ We must understand the gambling casino owner sometime, how could they survive if the tax is so big and almost cover your entire revenue.
It could be suffering for both player and gambling casino owners and I hope the goal is back money to the poor but what if the money they get is in a hand of corruption which is very common in our government now. I think this is not right, if that is 50/50 profit-sharing by tax probably it is good and fair enough, but in that percentage, they almost kill the gambling industry.

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Quote from: Quidat on October 29, 2021, 02:42:21 PM

Quote from: mu_enrico on October 29, 2021, 12:34:45 PM

Nice! Tax the rich and then give the money back to the poor! Casino is for rich people after all, so let them suffer!
It's all sunshine and rainbow until casinos fleeing NY causing no job creation and less tax revenue. Any good socialist argument?

Seems like you do hate casino business that much where you are pleased on seeing those horrendous percentage tax which is applied to them which i cant really deny nor disagree on what you had said about this is mostly been benefited out on those rich people where they should really be taxed even way more higher than before but there would really be complaints made about some reconsideration for the sake
of making fair business? I wont be surprised.

Whether you agree or not, it's a fact that the high taxes at the casinos there make it less messy. Although it's actually worth what the rich bet on. Because it is only an annual tax in exchange for winnings every month at the casino, it can be equivalent or even only 10% of the total that rich people get for gambling in 1 full year.

Hasn't this been coordinated with the casino to be later accepted as one of the conditions for the casino to remain standing and have protection while operating.

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I am not surprised by this news. In New York, power has been seized by the socialists, and they do not know how to do anything but prohibit, destroy and rob other people's property. Just like Tesla is running away from these madmen from California to Texas, the whole business will run from New York to normal places. If the authorities continue to act in this way, they will simply turn this state into a trash heap.

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Quote from: mu_enrico on October 29, 2021, 12:34:45 PM

Nice! Tax the rich and then give the money back to the poor! Casino is for rich people after all, so let them suffer!
It's all sunshine and rainbow until casinos fleeing NY causing no job creation and less tax revenue. Any good socialist argument?

Seems like you do hate casino business that much where you are pleased on seeing those horrendous percentage tax which is applied to them which i cant really deny nor disagree on what you had said about this is mostly been benefited out on those rich people where they should really be taxed even way more higher than before but there would really be complaints made about some reconsideration for the sake
of making fair business? I wont be surprised.

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Nice! Tax the rich and then give the money back to the poor! Casino is for rich people after all, so let them suffer!
It's all sunshine and rainbow until casinos fleeing NY causing no job creation and less tax revenue. Any good socialist argument?

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Quote from: magneto on October 25, 2021, 03:05:33 PM

Quote

The New York state gaming commission has issued a request for the proposals which are due 10 December apparently which would raise the gambling tax to 64% ( proposed) it's already way over the top. They have also issued information about the unlicensed casinos in the area. They wanna choose the official tenders, therefore these measures are supposed to attract those parties.

These statements are inherently contradictory.

Jacking up your gambling taxes to 64% is not going to attract anyone to establish in your state. Rather, it is just going to be encouraging illegal junket activity for than anything else. Certainly not something that you would want as a regulator.

If the aim is combatting illegal gambling joints, this is certainly not the way to go.

If the aim is to raise more revenue, this is not the way to go either - search up "paradox of thrift".

You fail to understand how profitable these type of companies really are and the authorities in this state have likely done a lot of research into the field in order to come up with that tax level. Just look at Vegas (on the surface) an area filled with luxury and opulence, a mecca attracting in millions of gamblers where casinos give away all sorts of hospitality and free drinks, it just shows you how much money is floating around this field. Real world gambling institutions have standard business costs like properties (which they own), taxes, staffing, security, etc. but at a certain scale those costs stay still and the rest is profit creamed off the top. They're probably still making 10-20% profit margins at this rate which is incredible for any business.

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Quote from: Findingnemo on October 29, 2021, 08:38:56 AM

^

Why would anyone want to move? These big companies have a huge number of casinos in various states. I don't see anything wrong if their overall tax burden increases by a few percent. The only downside of that is that the smaller gambling establishments won't be able to operate in New York. But it's not about online casinos, so you don't have to worry at all.

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Players are forced to move to other states just for the sake of gambling? Thise tax rates are unfair and casinos may not be able to operate if the government is pushing the rates higher and higher.

By the way Texas is known for casinos what is the tax rate for sport betting there?

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Quote from: Darker45 on October 28, 2021, 08:47:02 PM

I'm surprised how high the taxes in these states are for sports betting income. This standard seems unreasonable. Well, anyway, sports betting companies always have the freedom to choose their location. They could choose to build their business anywhere they want. If they think a 64% income tax is too high in New York, then they could easily decide to operate from somewhere else or relocate if they're already headquartered in New York.

I'd be wondering why sports betting companies would choose New York, New Hampshire, or Pennsylvania over other states with cheaper tax.

According to speculation, companies that want to become a monopoly in the betting industry in New York are DraftKings, FanDuel, BetMGM and Bally's and they already own about 80% of the total market share of sports betting in the United States so. So it makes no sense for them to move, they just want to get a license and share this piece of the delicious pie and are willing to pay quite a lot of money for it.

Source : https://www.playny.com/sports-betting-bid-process-update

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Quote from: fiulpro on October 24, 2021, 01:47:33 PM

What do you think about these unreasonable tax rates ? ?
These are not only over the top but also going to push the companies away.

I've always been in favor of high taxes for anything that causes a person addictions, destroys their financial or emotional integrity, and adds nothing useful to someone's life.
However, I had never seen a tax above 50%, I agree with you that it is absurd.
But, I think... if the government is demanding this, is it because they know that companies are able to pay (because gambling companies make a lot of money) or is it that the government really wants to discourage this type of company and make them disappear from their territories usanod a "legal tool" for this?

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I'm surprised how high the taxes in these states are for sports betting income. This standard seems unreasonable. Well, anyway, sports betting companies always have the freedom to choose their location. They could choose to build their business anywhere they want. If they think a 64% income tax is too high in New York, then they could easily decide to operate from somewhere else or relocate if they're already headquartered in New York.

I'd be wondering why sports betting companies would choose New York, New Hampshire, or Pennsylvania over other states with cheaper tax.

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Quote from: Johnyz on October 28, 2021, 03:54:22 PM

Quote from: madnessteat on October 28, 2021, 03:12:04 PM

New York is one of the largest cities in the United States. There is a lot of money there, and to own a casino in New York you have to be at least a millionaire, so I don't think these taxes are too high. If we're talking about changing the tax rate from state to state, I think it's a very good practice to differentiate taxes. People who earn more should pay higher taxes.

The demand for casinos right now is still not normal, we’ve a huge decline since the pandemic and if those casinos will pay a higher taxes, then it can affect their daily operations. Well, casinos is a huge business so I’m also confident about their system and paying taxes is really mandatory so they can’t skip that, the one who will suffer on this are the gamblers and not the casinos because for sure the fairness will become more low without being noticed.

We've seen several industries had closed down or become bankrupt when this pandemic happens which it did really give out big effect to the entire economy but now after how many years these establishments are opening their doors once again which means that demand would really be
gradually increasing as we do going back to normal.

Taxes of 64% is somewhat really that big if you do ask me but since the government is the one who do set out then all the things they do need to do
is to pay up or else you do know on whats next.

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Quote from: madnessteat on October 28, 2021, 03:12:04 PM

New York is one of the largest cities in the United States. There is a lot of money there, and to own a casino in New York you have to be at least a millionaire, so I don't think these taxes are too high. If we're talking about changing the tax rate from state to state, I think it's a very good practice to differentiate taxes. People who earn more should pay higher taxes.

The demand for casinos right now is still not normal, we’ve a huge decline since the pandemic and if those casinos will pay a higher taxes, then it can affect their daily operations. Well, casinos is a huge business so I’m also confident about their system and paying taxes is really mandatory so they can’t skip that, the one who will suffer on this are the gamblers and not the casinos because for sure the fairness will become more low without being noticed.

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Quote from: Lanatsa on October 28, 2021, 03:26:14 PM

Quote from: madnessteat on October 28, 2021, 03:12:04 PM

New York is one of the largest cities in the United States. There is a lot of money there, and to own a casino in New York you have to be at least a millionaire, so I don't think these taxes are too high. If we're talking about changing the tax rate from state to state, I think it's a very good practice to differentiate taxes. People who earn more should pay higher taxes.

Even if you're rich or millionaire but doesn't mean that you wouldn't really be minding about taxes for this high which is impossible for a business owner on behaving that way and trying to pay up upto 64%? Who would be the one would really be willing to pay up that high?

For sure it would really be a great effect on overall profitability or revenue because of big deductions that you could get on having those high tax.

So as a business owner then its either you do deal with it or simply skip out this time.

If you count all the hidden taxes of an ordinary citizen of the Russian Federation, he pays more than 50% of his income. But we do not have differentiated taxes. So I think that a tax of 64% for a businessman is quite a normal level of tax. In addition, these funds come out of the pockets of ordinary citizens, rather than being earned by hard work.

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Quote from: madnessteat on October 28, 2021, 03:12:04 PM

New York is one of the largest cities in the United States. There is a lot of money there, and to own a casino in New York you have to be at least a millionaire, so I don't think these taxes are too high. If we're talking about changing the tax rate from state to state, I think it's a very good practice to differentiate taxes. People who earn more should pay higher taxes.

Even if you're rich or millionaire but doesn't mean that you wouldn't really be minding about taxes for this high which is impossible for a business owner on behaving that way and trying to pay up upto 64%? Who would be the one would really be willing to pay up that high?

For sure it would really be a great effect on overall profitability or revenue because of big deductions that you could get on having those high tax.

So as a business owner then its either you do deal with it or simply skip out this time.

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New York is one of the largest cities in the United States. There is a lot of money there, and to own a casino in New York you have to be at least a millionaire, so I don't think these taxes are too high. If we're talking about changing the tax rate from state to state, I think it's a very good practice to differentiate taxes. People who earn more should pay higher taxes.

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Quote from: harizen on October 25, 2021, 03:51:51 PM

As far as the article is concerned, the 64% tax just applied to online sports betting and not on the usual casino games on land-based casinos.

Don't know how the setup of land-based casinos is there but maybe there is part of it where gamblers can place bets online right at the casinos. People should not overreact to the figure of 64% without seeing the whole "tax matrix", breakdown, and what is covered regarding taxation.

Physical casino taxes can be lower than the 64% applied to online casinos. However there has been no confirmation that shows how much revenue the physical casino is making as a whole. If considering the results of online casino revenue to be more precise around 50% of casino revenue handed over to the government is considered insufficient to cover the monthly costs.
If all feels not very effective, the online casinos in New York will try to sue for exorbitant taxes.

This will have an impact on other gambling which operates under the minimum income of physical casinos which are actually deserted due to the pandemic and changing professions.

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Quote from: harizen on October 25, 2021, 03:51:51 PM

As far as the article is concerned, the 64% tax just applied to online sports betting and not on the usual casino games on land-based casinos.

Don't know how the setup of land-based casinos is there but maybe there is part of it where gamblers can place bets online right at the casinos. People should not overreact to the figure of 64% without seeing the whole "tax matrix", breakdown, and what is covered regarding taxation.

This feels like New York is forcing people to play on physical casinos when it comes to sports betting, and I do not like it one bit. It leaves little room for gamblers in terms of freedom on which platform they are going to play, and that, to me, is kinda restricting and may even force me to bet somewhere else. I'm not a huge fan of sports betting tbh, though when I bet on big events, I bet big. The 64% tax figure, to me, is not really attractive at all, and may even discourage me from playing at all.

Then again, this is just a request, and the taxation is yet to be passed so hopefully the regulators may still come to their senses.

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Quote from: qwertyup23 on October 25, 2021, 10:08:44 AM

Wait, what?! 64% tax for the establishments and regulation of Casinos? That would definitely put a toll to both present and potential business owners that plan on starting on such state. Just like what Justice Marshall mentioned: "The power to tax involves the power to destroy."

If the government plans on maintaining such tax rate, then the citizens must feel the changes brought about it. Better government expenditure and project development should be expected with this kind of outrageous tax implementation.

Even if they did all of that, which will never happen of course, that is nowhere near enough for any company to consider paying those taxes, think of those taxes in this way, the government wants to keep two thirds of your profits without taking any risk themselves, basically the casino owner is a slave for 8 months out of 12 and he only gets to keep the remaining 4 months of profits.

And then they wonder why the economy is slowing down, with those kind of taxes they are creating the incentive to earn as little money as possible, receive benefits and just do whatever you want with your free time instead of being a voluntary slave.

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That is too high for the casino to pay the taxes so I am not sure that the casino will not complain about the tax rates.
The regulators need to discuss to all casinos, no matter for big or small casinos, so they can have the right percentage for the taxes that can be applied to the casino.
Besides that, we are still in the pandemic that makes many casinos still not make much money.
If they can discuss with all casino owners, they will know the right amount to pay the taxes.

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Quote from: qwertyup23 on October 25, 2021, 10:08:44 AM

Wait, what?! 64% tax for the establishments and regulation of Casinos? That would definitely put a toll to both present and potential business owners that plan on starting on such state. Just like what Justice Marshall mentioned: "The power to tax involves the power to destroy."

well there are still many state for them to target creating their business , though i think New York see this opportunity as their state is a fast growing in terms of gambling businesses and gamblers.

Quote

If the government plans on maintaining such tax rate, then the citizens must feel the changes brought about it. Better government expenditure and project development should be expected with this kind of outrageous tax implementation.

eventually the New York State will realize this , because gamblers and businesses will try exiting their city and will look for more appropriate and fair in terms of taxations .

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I cannot open the link posted in the OP but I think 64% is way too high. Whether it is only imposed to sports bettors or to casino players does not matter. It does not take away the fact that it is already a very heavy tax responsibility for players.

The state government has probably reasons for this. Perhaps they want to discourage gambling from its people that is why they increase the taxes to the highest level to discourage gamblers and casinos alike. But I doubt this one. Or perhaps they want to create a big revenue from it. But with a tax as high as 64%, this is not going to be effective.

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Quote from: gagux123 on October 25, 2021, 04:56:06 PM

wooow, is this true!!?

Well, I'm not American and I don't live in New York, but could someone explain to me, how this could harm the city by carrying out this abusive increase in taxes?
Slow down the local economy!!?
Discourage casino companies/businesses or something like that??

As I wrote in an earlier post, I think this will have a negative impact on New York's finances.
I think the rulers expect a lot of income from such huge taxes. However, this can be very illusory, because nowadays moving a company even abroad is not a very big problem, especially an Internet company.
In my opinion, the decision to raise taxes will backfire and the bookmakers will move out of New York, making it less money coming in to the city pocket.

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wooow, is this true!!?

Well, I'm not American and I don't live in New York, but could someone explain to me, how this could harm the city by carrying out this abusive increase in taxes?
Slow down the local economy!!?
Discourage casino companies/businesses or something like that??

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That could be high but the government knows that this is a lucrative business, and the fact that they still operate, means they are profitable. The sports betting industry is a billion-dollar industry, so the government will certainly benefit big time from this increase since the majority of the money in circulation in the sports betting industry is coming from US soil.

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Quote from: harizen on October 25, 2021, 03:51:51 PM

As far as the article is concerned, the 64% tax just applied to online sports betting and not on the usual casino games on land-based casinos.

Don't know how the setup of land-based casinos is there but maybe there is part of it where gamblers can place bets online right at the casinos. People should not overreact to the figure of 64% without seeing the whole "tax matrix", breakdown, and what is covered regarding taxation.

Then I'm sorry I missed it.
If this is just about online betting on sports, I think setting such a high tax will be a shot in the foot. After all, if I had run such an bussiness there, then at the mere news that the authorities had such ideas, I would start looking for a new place for my company headquarters.

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As far as the article is concerned, the 64% tax just applied to online sports betting and not on the usual casino games on land-based casinos.

Don't know how the setup of land-based casinos is there but maybe there is part of it where gamblers can place bets online right at the casinos. People should not overreact to the figure of 64% without seeing the whole "tax matrix", breakdown, and what is covered regarding taxation.

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Quote from: fiulpro on October 24, 2021, 01:47:33 PM

Quote

According to the matrix, “for a two-platform provider and four operator schemes, the proposed tax rate is 64%”

New Hampshire currently taxes 51% income and Pennsylvania taxes 36%, making the New York rate the highest in the country for sports betting.

The New York state gaming commission has issued a request for the proposals which are due 10 December apparently which would raise the gambling tax to 64% ( proposed) it's already way over the top. They have also issued information about the unlicensed casinos in the area. They wanna choose the official tenders, therefore these measures are supposed to attract those parties.

Quote

Resorts World Aqueduct Casino (owned by Genting) and Empire City Casino (owned by MGM Resorts), gambling properties that have already been licensed to run slot machines in the area, are speculated to be among the interested parties.

https://www.gamblinginsider.com/news/13616/new-york-launches-rfps-for-new-casinos-and-decides-64-tax-for-online-sports-betting

What do you think about these unreasonable tax rates ? ?
These are not only over the top but also going to push the companies away.

It seems that it is only about land-based casinos. Even if such a huge tax were to be introduced, I am sure that any online casino registered in New York would quickly move its headquarters to another state or even country.
I don't know what the state government is doing, but such a high tax could backfire. Instead of increasing revenues, they can reduce them through the emigration of companies and the creation of underground untaxed casinos.

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Quote from: avikz on October 25, 2021, 12:31:04 PM

Lol! 64% on profit or revenue? I believe it's the revenue!

But I would say it's a wise decision by the government. New York houses the most billionaires in the world and one of the most costliest cities. Also the income of the city people are amongst the highest as well. So people living in New York wouldn't mind spending on sports betting. Also the government will get what they always want, taxes!

But the wise business houses will eventually pass on the cost to the people only or they would have to look for value added services to survive!

For sure that would really be on revenue and not for net profit but i have checked out and trying to clarify out on here
https://www.yogonet.com/international/noticias/2021/10/21/59830-ny-regulators-launch-rfp-for-new-casinos-agree-on-64por_ciento-tax-for-online-sports-betting
but i cant really see the precise one.So lets just presume atm.

Government are the ones who could really set out rules.whether you do like it or not then you would still needed to comply or else
then you do simply close or stop your business.

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Quote

The New York state gaming commission has issued a request for the proposals which are due 10 December apparently which would raise the gambling tax to 64% ( proposed) it's already way over the top. They have also issued information about the unlicensed casinos in the area. They wanna choose the official tenders, therefore these measures are supposed to attract those parties.

These statements are inherently contradictory.

Jacking up your gambling taxes to 64% is not going to attract anyone to establish in your state. Rather, it is just going to be encouraging illegal junket activity for than anything else. Certainly not something that you would want as a regulator.

If the aim is combatting illegal gambling joints, this is certainly not the way to go.

If the aim is to raise more revenue, this is not the way to go either - search up "paradox of thrift".

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Quote from: fiulpro on October 24, 2021, 01:47:33 PM

Quote

According to the matrix, “for a two-platform provider and four operator schemes, the proposed tax rate is 64%”

New Hampshire currently taxes 51% income and Pennsylvania taxes 36%, making the New York rate the highest in the country for sports betting.

The New York state gaming commission has issued a request for the proposals which are due 10 December apparently which would raise the gambling tax to 64% ( proposed) it's already way over the top. They have also issued information about the unlicensed casinos in the area. They wanna choose the official tenders, therefore these measures are supposed to attract those parties.

Quote

Resorts World Aqueduct Casino (owned by Genting) and Empire City Casino (owned by MGM Resorts), gambling properties that have already been licensed to run slot machines in the area, are speculated to be among the interested parties.

https://www.gamblinginsider.com/news/13616/new-york-launches-rfps-for-new-casinos-and-decides-64-tax-for-online-sports-betting

What do you think about these unreasonable tax rates ? ?
These are not only over the top but also going to push the companies away.

While these taxes may seem high you can guarantee that any gambling company would jump at the chance to take a chunk of the New York market even at such rates. Casinos and all kinds of gambling institutions are pure money making machines with seriously low overheads and people almost giving their money away in this form of entertainment. While these gambling companies might be serving a purpose and should be regulated rather than banned, they are almost definitely not good for the wider society because they contribute so little back. At least this way tax money can be redistributed back into communities or constructive projects rather than just benefiting a few shareholders.

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These are populist measures used by politicians to show the poors they are taxing the riches, so they become a kind of Robin Hood in the eyes of the media and the public in general. But in fact these are harmful measures, because they are creating an unfavorable environment for businesses in their territory, what will lead companies to leave to another states or to also raise the costs of their services for gamblers (the final customers).
In the end the state of New York will be the most prejudiced one, because it will lose income due to the greed and selfishness of its politicians. While for casinos companies and gamblers it isn't a problem at all, since there are dozens of another states where gambling is a welcome economical activity.

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Lol! 64% on profit or revenue? I believe it's the revenue!

But I would say it's a wise decision by the government. New York houses the most billionaires in the world and one of the most costliest cities. Also the income of the city people are amongst the highest as well. So people living in New York wouldn't mind spending on sports betting. Also the government will get what they always want, taxes!

But the wise business houses will eventually pass on the cost to the people only or they would have to look for value added services to survive!

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Wait, what?! 64% tax for the establishments and regulation of Casinos? That would definitely put a toll to both present and potential business owners that plan on starting on such state. Just like what Justice Marshall mentioned: "The power to tax involves the power to destroy."

If the government plans on maintaining such tax rate, then the citizens must feel the changes brought about it. Better government expenditure and project development should be expected with this kind of outrageous tax implementation.

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Residents fleeing california and new york for texas and florida has been a trend for awhile now.

Quote

Texas, Florida Gain House Seats After Census Shuffle as California, New York Lose

Six states will gain congressional seats – with Texas leading the pack by picking up two – as the South became the fast-growing region over the past 10 years, according to the first set of data released by the U.S. Census Bureau.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/texas-florida-gain-house-seats-after-census-shuffle-as-california-new-york-lose/ar-BB1g4Nkn

....

Texas passing laws against abortion. May have been intended to deter residents immigrating into the state. Negative news trends involving florida could also serve a similar goal. To deter those who support policies which led to the destruction of california and new york from negatively influencing the region.

If they demand 64% taxes, they need better transparency, better accountability and better management of tax revenues. I think its fair to say most americans are not happy with the current status quo.

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Quote

According to the matrix, “for a two-platform provider and four operator schemes, the proposed tax rate is 64%”

New Hampshire currently taxes 51% income and Pennsylvania taxes 36%, making the New York rate the highest in the country for sports betting.

The New York state gaming commission has issued a request for the proposals which are due 10 December apparently which would raise the gambling tax to 64% ( proposed) it's already way over the top. They have also issued information about the unlicensed casinos in the area. They wanna choose the official tenders, therefore these measures are supposed to attract those parties.

Quote

Resorts World Aqueduct Casino (owned by Genting) and Empire City Casino (owned by MGM Resorts), gambling properties that have already been licensed to run slot machines in the area, are speculated to be among the interested parties.

https://www.gamblinginsider.com/news/13616/new-york-launches-rfps-for-new-casinos-and-decides-64-tax-for-online-sports-betting

What do you think about these unreasonable tax rates ? ?
These are not only over the top but also going to push the companies away.

Topic: New York launches RFP for new casinos rising the taxation to 64% (Read 220 times)