Topic: 🎲 NitrogenSports.eu / BetBit.com - NO SENSE of Responsible Gambling! 🎲 (Read 524 times)

Excellent feedback. We are working on this as I write this. These new measures will hopefully be done shortly. We have recently found some exploits on our platform that required us to divert our developing resources.

We've thought about this quite some time now. We feel it is an important part of the entertainment service we are ultimately providing. Allowing players to customize those limits ultimately increases value. We will certainly keep you updated.

If you are offering self-exclusion then at least offer it properly.
There is no such a thing as "responsible gambling" and when a gambler is asking a Casino to quit and make him stop betting then usually the Casino is obliged to adhere to such requests, or face lawsuits for allowing the gambler to continue his "losing streak".

This is not so simple and straightforward as you're trying to portray from a legal standpoint - there have been thousands of cases where gambling establishments were sued for such activities.

What is the issue here?? A lot of other gambling websites do the same! Unless it is specifically required by the government authorities of their jurisdiction, why would a gambling website require such things? How come it is an issue of "responsible gambling"?

I don't know if they still do that but they have forbidden a few countries to participate in their games. That is not a good sign compared to other casinos, that is why I don't play there from a long time although they give you acces with a Vpn why would you block certain countries in the first place ? Replying to Op it is not any casino responsibility to educate the end user.

its actually hassle to sign up just to play gambling . nowadays many sites are now automatic . you can get an instant username and password , you just gotta make sure that you save them if ever you want to make a deposit and keep this account permanent  .


yeah budd . crypto are anonymous and all of the service related to it must also be anonymous but if they requiring for sign ups , just dont put your real infos  .

They are competing and the trend now is just sign up and play so if they will make their procedure hard for gambler then I believe
they will loss some of their potential client and I think that's alright with the gambler as it's the first time I see someone complaining about this matter.

I think this has nothing to do with a sportsbook. Do you know how many sportsbook there is in the world ?

Any gambler can go to the next or next sportsbook and bet and bet over again. That is just simple addiction to gambling.

Thats the best phrase to use in behalf of gamblers

‘Smooth withdrawal is what every Gamblers are looking’

This is our money ,we risk and take a small chances of winning so in no other reason we must have the rights to demand a smoother one when times lf withdrawals and dont take this from us

I agree for these good explanation very simple and understandable, and i would like to remind those people how to be responsible gamblers being responsible gambler always set greed control.
Getting information from the individual to withdraw their winning prize specially if the amount of withdrawal is very hugable it's normal from the casino site get the information of the people to avoid money laundering case.

Being addicted isn't the problem anymore of the casino's. They are just giving solution to the inconvenience of what their customers are experiencing and having a username and password only is their solution to those gamblers that doesn't like KYC.

I'm not really concern with the sites mentioned in terms of the KYC requirement because I don't bet big although I aim to win big.
Maybe by the time comes that I may win the jackpot and they'll ask me the verification, I might share my story here, or better yet, I start checking my account now and try to apply for verification, just in case I win, I would be prepare and there will no problem encounter.

Smooth withdrawal is what every gamblers are looking, so please give us that.

Not true. Deposits at https://www.betbit.com are 100% instant. You can withdraw your winnings at any time with any amount with no human intervention.

Whether you like verification or not it's up to you, before Bitcoin ever existed there was never any issue with not having KYC - the KYC is done for money laundering purposes - Nitrogen is based according to them in Costa Rica, but even Costa Rica is aligning itself with US demands for proper AML rules.

And the sense of responsibility (self-exclusion) is not only about Money Laundering but about playing fair - governments all over the world encourage it, you can ignore it if you wish but just don't be surprised of the consequences that will follow suit.

If Child pornography is against the rules then they will get some punishment if they get caught for that we can't blame the porn sites since they already ask for you a click box says you are over 18 or not.So its our responsibility to pick the true one,but do you think anyone will do that? SO they needs to be blamed.

Asking for verification is good thing but there are some people who don't like it that is why they have system like this.

Pinnacle Sports is a very popular website that allows you to deposit/withdraw with Bitcoin but it does ask for some verification.

The convenient of Bitcoin can be perfectly used as much as you want, just get verified once and that's it, no one would bother you unless you ask for self-exclusion, which Pinnacle does perform and does offer perfectly fine, their model is more than okay, even betting agents such as AC88 require verification and use Bitcoin for deposits and withdrawals.

If you don't want to do KYC then it's like child pornography - what prevents children from being involved in it? This is just 1 basic question you can ask yourself among many.

A normal compulsive gambler won't use a fake ID to get through to the Casino, a normal person won't use a fake ID neither, in the UK carrying a fake ID is a criminal offense, you would be jailed for it, the police won't be easy on you with an offense like this.

KYC happens when you withdraw but a normal gambler won't deposit funds into a place where he knows would give him hard time to get a withdrawal processed.  Why would anyone do it? When there is no value to bet then no one would bet, including an addict, because an addict is still looking to get his withdrawals or else he would leave the place (which is a good thing).


Casinos created the problem, so they have to take responsibility.
If there were no casinos - then there won't be a problem gambling.
You cannot separate between the two.

Tobacco companies are well regulated, Casinos are no different.

You can try to portray it differently as if the casinos are the poor ones here being heavily regulated, but one of the reasons Bitcoin is dropping in price is because investors understand that if it will be used for criminal offenses such as allowing underage gambling (and even worse terrible things) then no one would use it, it would only lose value.

Gambling websites which are Bitcoin based must meet a minimum criteria or risk themselves losing credibility, being sued or finding themselves in tons of other pickles ... it won't last forever what you guys are trying to claim.

Wrong.


Wrong again.

Compulsive gamblers cannot stop simply with "Self Control", it doesn't work this way.
Compulsive gamblers can stop only if they arrest their addiction, and by that it means to self-exclude, hand over the control over cash to someone else, or use any means whatsoever to stop gambling.

Nitrogen Sports is not offering the self-exclusion feature out of good heart, they do it for business reasons, to show that they have some sense of responsible gambling - but unfortunately with the way they operate it's absurd to offer a self-exclusion in this format.

An addict won't stop because his mind tells him to stop, an addict will stop because he cannot bet, the more barriers the better - if he has to exclude himself from 2000 sites so be it ... any website that doesn't respect it - is in fact violating a very basic moral code of conduct, and this type of behavior is immoral and unscrupulous.

You cannot justify this behavior, you can try to put the blame on the addict, but there are tons of many court cases in many countries worldwide where such code of conduct was proven to be penalized, and the gambling owners had to pay huge fines for such immoral actions.

Once again - this topic cannot be underestimated, as much as you want to blame the gamblers, the recent developments in the gambling industry are only going in the other direction, websites do need to be responsible or they can or will be held liable for their actions.

Most of the gamblers have chosen online crypto gambling for the convenience and anonymity so asking them such information may be inconvenient to some of their clinets so they have given full freedom to everyone in this gambling world so if you want to be responsible then you need to do that.

OP, I think if you want to pick a fight with casinos because they wouldn't be able to enforce self-exclusion properly it's a lost cause. Of course casinos can't do it if they don't enforce KYC, and that is even not perfect if done online. In the physical casinos you can use fake IDs, and online you can do the same, and still gamblers can deposit and gamble and lose without doing kyc (kyc usually happens at withdraw).

It's impossible to put the responsibility on casinos, they can only do so much. It should be enough that if a player asks, they do their best to enforce it.

You kidding?

Why the hell would they want to do that? --'

No BTC site tries to make responsible betting...
Fiat casinos and all do it only because law imposes it, otherwise they wouldn't do shit xD

If you somebody wants to gamble again sir they will always find a way,those 2 arent the only sportsbooks in the world

If the self exclude themselfs and want to bet again thats a serious problem

I think the gambling site is not responsible for the negative effect that might happen to someone. The owner is creating the gambling site for business purposes, and they know that gambling industries will give them a big profit because many of the gamblers right now move to the online gambling especially when the players can use bitcoin for the bets.

And that is personal responsibilities to make a filter from the bad and good and only get the right thing for their life. And if somehow, many gamblers creating the new account in every time the gamble, then the gambling site will not care as long as they can make another profit. But I don't know about the good and the bad thing because it depends on what our perspective for the gambling site and if we think that is not right, then we can stay away from the gambling site.

It is why we need self-control to prevent from playing gambling every day or make a new account when we want to play gambling. I think for people who only want to spend free time, they can create a new account because they don't play every day. But I don't think that if someone is addicting in gambling will make a new account because he will use the same account to play and continue the game.

Firstly, it's not the same.
Secondly, a bank or a credit card would reverse charges you didn't make in many cases (unlike Bitcoin for instance).

If gambling websites wouldn't exist then no one would have become a compulsive gambler.
People become CG because of the gambling industry, so your assertion that Nitrogen is not responsible is wrong and misleading.

Thirdly, just like a shop is not supposed to sell cigarettes and alcohol to young kids under 18 in most countries in the world - the same applies here, and if these websites have NO SENSE of RESPONSIBILITY (tip: that's the title of this topic) then they can be held liable one way or another, or sooner or later likewise. That's exactly what this thread is about.

Agreed! If Nitrogensports and Betbit give their users a way to deactivate their accounts, they would only gamble on another site or in a casino regardless hehehe.

Do not gamble in bitcoin casinos if you want KYC and selfexclusion. Also, if you are a gambling addict, you should not be gambling!

That's funny and is the same as if some hacker hacks your credit card and you go complain to the bank. The credit card is your responsibility.
Here is the same Nitrogensports is not responsible if you have become an addict gambler.

True, and if Cannabis could be legal anywhere (including the THC) then many cancer patients would be alive as well.
But "unfortunately" we live in a world of regulation, whether we like it or not that's another question, and no doubt freedom is something we all wish to have, but actually having some meaningful limits in life is better than having none.

When it comes to gambling, if you had a child who's 10 year old, would you be okay with him betting using Bitcoin just because it's anonymous? Would you not be concerned he might get addicted?

The same applies to a gambling addict who doesn't stop wasting all his resources because he wants to place the next bet on a roulette, a slot machine, horse racing, a basketball or a football game - and this is where self-exclusion helps.

What good bookmakers are doing is verify you, just once, only once - once you are verified you can bet as much as you want, be free like a bird, no one would tell you to stop unless if you voluntarily ask for it, and that's an option that should always be on the table.

If I consider anonymity is my right than what is wrong with denying the verification process? We love decentralized technology, we like the anonymity (not 100% though ) given by bitcoin, we like not to have charge back, we like peer to peer transaction then why do we hold us back to be the salve for some authority?

If I am over 18 and I am responsible for my actions then I should be responsible for the money I lose or gain from gambling. I guess it's time for us to take our responsibilities in our own hand rather then giving it to a corporation.

You seem to throw away lots of nonsense, and I highly doubt you regard yourself as a problem gambler neither, you should honestly let problem gamblers express their own wish when it comes to things like that, and don't try to speak on their behalf.

You cannot circumvent self exclusion if you are obligated to verify yourself, you have to produce a genuine copy of your ID Card or Passport or Driving License, the website will see your name and date of birth and the self-exclusion red flag would show the operator that you cannot have another account - Pinnacle is doing it and Pinnacle is perfectly accepting Bitcoin for deposits and withdrawals - they just don't allow you to bet if you don't verify yourself first.


You are wrong again. You cannot enter a Casino (a proper one) without handing over your ID, they would see your name and DOB and if you are on the self-excluded list you won't be allowed to enter, period. Many casinos operate like this, you get a card to play with after you handed over your ID and you use this card to quickly come into the casino next time ... yes, you can use someone else's card but if the Casino knows it they will block you and the other person from ever coming back (it's also not allowed) ... so no, it is not based on cameras.

And yes, in the UK betting shops do rely on employees to detect if someone self-excluded himself so this is not effective, but at least proper Casinos and other places do allow you to enter only upon verification, and that's how it should be.

Also - we're mainly discussing the ONLINE self-exclusion, not offline, and online self-exclusion is much more powerful because as easy as it is to place a bet, it becomes harder if you are blocked.


On the contrary, it's a very effective tool that helps people who need it! Read the last paragraph made by TSL in the 2nd post:
https://www.psychforums.com/gambling-addiction/topic204496-10.html

And this:
https://www.gamblingtherapy.org/en/taking-my-life-back-self-exclusion

And this: (just the conclusions part for those who don't want to read it all)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4016676/

You clearly are not a problem gambler and definitely not a person who knows what problem gamblers (and their families) go through in life, so once again - you are contributing nothing but utterly ridiculous suggestions which are unhelpful and very dangerous for problem gamblers.

Self-exclusion can never work perfectly, neither online nor in the real world. Circumventing self-exclusion on the internet is as easy as getting a VPN and switching it on before you go to your gambling site of choice. You may shoot yourself in the foot by doing that (i.e. if they have KYC procedures preventing you from withdrawing money easily), but that is only brought about by your own irresponsible decision.

Now in the real world you can self-exclude yourself from a casino, but I wouldn't trust the cameras in being 100% effective in flagging you to get security to escort you out. In those instances where you slip past the automated system, your expected value on the casino games is even more negative than before because you will either lose or they will confiscate your winnings if you need to present your ID at any point (a big win) or the automated system recognizes you while you are playing.

Self-exclusion, therefore, is a horrible option because its upside (efficacy in keeping you from gambling) is minimal and its downside is massive*. It's just another bad bet that uneducated gamblers make.

*Confiscation of winnings, not being allowed on the premises even if you don't want to gamble, not being allowed to gamble when there is a promotion or an otherwise +EV opportunity, not being able to get the self-exclusion revoked easily.

Are you a Nitrogen affiliate, or you're playing yourself, or you're just an idiot who has no idea what a gambling problem is? I'm asking seriously, why are you posting nonsense - can you please bother reading the message here before replying with nonsense?!

The concern about self exclusion is a real genuine concern, someone who wants to stop gambling should have no option to bet "again", and if a website creates a possibility to do that - then that's a problem.

You said "it's good that Nitro have self exclusion" - what good is in it if the policy cannot be properly enforced?! That's the main concept of this thread, and it seems many people in this thread like a herd of sheep are posting here trying to protect Nitro or the gambling industry - where are you all coming from really? What's the motive behind your posts? Why don't you all identify yourself and tell us who you really are before you post your continuous nonsense protecting the bad guys here?!


Who mentioned withdrawals? How is it related to this topic?
Once again - you are proving some loyalty to Nitro - thus you're opinion is biased and extremely dangerous for real problem gamblers who need an unbiased opinion when it comes to topics of self-exclusion.

Please you and anyone affiliated with Nitro - do us all a favor and don't post nonsense here if you have nothing constructive and genuine to add to this conversation!

Why are you so concerned about their self exclusion? If I myself know that I have a gambling problem and couldn't stop it myself it's better to seek help from other people(you already pointed this out on the other thread of yours by giving your cash to someone you can trust).

Sure you can make another account on Nitro after pressing self exclusion on your older account but this can be easily stopped if you're being monitored by someone irl 24/7 (like being in rehab or prison if your addiction is really that bad).

It's good that Nitro have self exclusion rather than having nothing because they're not the only two sites that lets you bet without providing any personal info. Also there are bitcoin gambling sites that lets you gamble without having an account one example is OneHash.

For Nitrogen afaik they don't ask for any verification including big wins. They only stop processing your withdrawal once they see something suspicious like multi accounting and other forms of cheating.

A problem gambler doesn't need the website to lead himself "to get professional help", he needs to be barred i.e. self-excluded from the site, and then he would stop gambling, period.

All these "professional" websites are useless, self-exclusion is 100 times more powerful than anything else you could offer a problem gambler.

See:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/gamcare-is-part-of-the-problem-its-not-a-solution-5067834

Nitrogen in the settings page mention the following:

We take self-exclusion VERY seriously. This action can not be undone. The support team does NOT have access to undo this, and we will never reverse or undo a self-exclusion. Self-exclusions must be waited out to their full length and "Forever" exclusions are permanent and will never be removed.

According to their terms - clause #15:

https://nitrogensports.eu/n/terms

Problem Gambling
...Nitrogen Sports fully supports self-exclusion from our services.

It's their words, not mine.

You might be all casino/gambling owners or affiliates or ones related who don't like to hear the truth, and just like a herd of sheep responding with the same answer here in this thread, just because you have an incentive or a motive to say what you say - that preying on the weak is a joke.

The facts are:

1) Sites like Pinnacle Sports, Bet365, William Hill offer self-exclusion, and Pinnacle Sports won't allow you to bet with them until you verify yourself and if you are self-excluded - you won't be allowed to bet in the first place.

2) Casinos all over the world, in the US or in the UK or in Australia, Europe, you name it - they all offer self-exclusions, problem gamblers should be barred from playing if they want to stop.

3) Have you never come across "When the fun stops - STOP"? A huge campaign in the UK (the question is really if loss of money is "FUN"? but that's irrelevant)

4) Any normal casino/bookmaker with high reputation is offering self-exclusion.

The fact is Nitrogen is offering it as well, but the real joke here is what kind of self-exclusion are they offering if all they require is from someone to fill out a username and a password and start betting with Bitcoin?!

If websites like Nitrogen or BitBet think they can keep on going forever with "full 100% anonymity" without standing behind what they promise on their sites to offer - then they are opening the doors to legal lawsuits against them, and it's only a matter of time until someone will start doing so (it could also be the local government).

You can underestimate this one as much as you'd like, it's a serious issue that needs to be addressed.

Hey each and every site has it's own policy whereby they decide what's best for their users, as a gambler you have a choice either to use their site or not use it. I can understand what you mean of opening new accounts, but let me warn you no site likes multiple accounts supposedly you win big, and they see you have multiple accounts you'll not get paid. There's a solution for you, check the second last faq https://www.bitdice.me/help, wherein Bitdice gives it users an option to lock their account, and has even listed sites where you could get professional help to cure your addiction.

So you are blaming gambling site because of the easiness of creating account and betting so people who want to stop gambling are affected? What a joke dude, if they want to stop then just stop no need to find other reason why they cant stop. Even worst you blame the gambling sites as the one that makes people unable to stop gambling.

They are asking verification when the users wins big or asks big withdrawal, this is the problem with this sites. So if you are playing low then its ok.

Joke Of The Year 
Go ahead and make a campaign for it.

thats not their responsibility or problem

The websites NitrogenSports.eu and BetBit.com allow users to sign up without even providing their names, or date of birth, no verification required, and it's very easy to place bets anonymously with the use of Bitcoin.

The trouble is if someone wants to permanently self-exclude his/her account - the effectiveness of that self-exclusion is next to none!

Why?

Because a problem gambler can easily open a new account in 10 seconds, and then what effectiveness do these sites have towards those who want to stop?

When all you need is username and password - then having a self-exclusion feature in the site is good for nothing.