Topic: No gains, 1 Minute Scalping Strategy (Read 444 times)

One good advise i will give to you is stay off scalping if you are not a fast trader, because i think this term should be for those who are stable at home doing nothing and have stable internet, because my dear scalping has really messed up many traders psychology, but still wont understand or probably dont wanna understand the fact, for me am a day trader and this has really gave me a peaceful mindset when am in the market dealing.

I am used to scalping almost every day. But I don't like doing that to BTC. Because one thing you have to pay attention to when scalping is that you have to use trading pairs that have high volatility. Like coins that are hype and stuff like that. If you want to do it in BTC then you have to do it when there is an economic event where high volatility occurs. Apart from that, I think it is difficult to do in one minute. But I don't recommend this for those who are not used to it and don't have enough experience. Because scalping is much riskier than regular daily trading. I personally scalp more than a minute. The TF used is indeed a one minute TF. But from the entry and exit positions, it certainly takes more than a minute or sometimes less. Usually we can enter and exit within 1 minute if the coin we are investing in is having a big event and is at the peak of hype. Where prices continue to fall and rise very quickly. But if we are too hasty then of course Fee can run out of profits. That's why we only take profit when we have calculated that the profit is still remaining after deducting the fee.

Lower fees might help, but obviously the result for OP could be the same, and it's merely extending the situation before the inescapable fact. - That like 90% of active "day-traders", OP's money could go to the top 10% of winning traders in the market.

Because we're mere plebs, It's obviously better to have a very low time preference investment strategy. It's also better for our sanity.

 

Timeframes I don't think it is very important for trading which timeframes one is using for trading. 15 timeframes are better for me to understand the market, so can you tell me if I should use one hour or longer timeframes?
Timeframes will be easier to understand for those who understand them. There are many who use timeframes of one minute or a little longer and they trade successfully. The profit or loss of training will depend on our trading skills. If we have no idea about trading but if we fuss too much about timeframes then we will never be successful in trading. First we need to know about trading. When we get to know about trading, we will have to trade in those timeframes which will be convenient for us to trade.

We now know that the trading charge at Bybit is that minimal, because 0.04% will not be felt in reality if we perform trading activity with derivatives, correct? However, as far as I am aware, this is not the case in spot trading.

However, thank you for the information. That you provided this is still of great assistance, not only to the OP but also to other members of the community here on the forum site. When I trade, I don't consider the trading cost because I don't notice it when I trade on Binance, Kucoin, Bybit, and other exchanges.

It is not surprising you have not heard about it, as scalping is the field of experts which know their strategy like the back of their hand and can take the correct decision in a split of a second, and it is also the field of newbies which believe they can do the same even if they lack the ability or the experience.

Scalping is simply a form of trading that is too difficult and even the ones that are good at it eventually leave it behind, as the level of attention they need to give to the markets is simply too high and they eventually become swing traders or even long term investors.

Scalping will definitely cause a lot of trouble if you are not good at it, it is not that simple and there are way too many people doing it for something that is called scalping. I mean it is the crumbs of the crumbs and they are trying to make that profit and if too many people do it, think of how you could share crumbs between all that many people, you can't so some will have to fail.

Either you get very good at it with the great tools and quick moves or you should stop it and instead do spot trading instead of scalping, that would be simpler, you could still do intraday trading, or trades that take just a few days but not more than 5 days, but at least that would be bigger pieces and you could make some profit doing those as well.

First of all, I think you are not making profits by trading the way you mentioned for two different reasons. These are that transactions made within a very short time period don't cover the commission payments and that a price movement with profit potential doesn't occur due to the very short time period being preferred.

I would like to point out that the time period you used is very short. Based on this situation the percentage of each price movement you get in every transaction is very low and this actually prevents you from making a profit because it is less than the commission paid in buying and selling transactions. Again, due to the small time frame used you can never evaluate potential price movements and you buy and sell at prices that have barely changed. This similarly causes you to not make any profit from the transaction and to not make any profit due to the higher commissions paid than your profit.

My personal opinion would be to change the time frame you use to trade to at least 15 minutes or more. In this way you can evaluate potential price movements more easily and make real profits by not buying or selling within a very narrow price band. Also, I would like to remind you that this advice is only for daily buy-sell transactions and in general a minimum of 4-hour chart should be used for percentage profit targets. It would be healthier to analyze using a minimum 4-hour chart especially for buy-sale transactions that will be carried out for a certain percentage target or for a certain period of time.

All you need is to ask yourself, are you truly scalp trading or you're just impulsively trading?

Because in scalping, it is fast phase type of trading. You're most of the time in the lower time frame. And not because you're sitting at your desk or the market is trading doesn't mean you have to trade. Next thing is solidify is your strategy truly working? If so, do you have data to prove it?

Most of the time the answer is no that is why you are hesitant if you're going to hop from scalp strategy to another. Remember this, in trading regardless of the timeframe you are using, you still need to be patient for the best opportunity.

Trading fees quickly kill your profits, so how much capital do you use for trading?
Fast trading or scalping is not as easy as you think, besides requiring an understanding of trading analysis and the use of good tools and indicators, you also have to use large capital so that profits are kept safe from the costs used.

Trading fast, then buy and sell orders are done quickly and often.
If you only use a capital of $100 or below it will not mean anything, it will only make a little profit even as you said, the fees kill your profits.

I'm not even familiar with one minute trading. except for binary trading which is usually used for fast trading. I am used to using a time frame of 4 hours or even a day. I understand it's slow. but it doesn't cost much compared to the benefits we get. of course this is because the profits are greater if trading for a longer time.

That's the case, unless you bring in more capital. like you brought $100 or more. but I really don't recommend doing prepetual trading in very short timeframes. make it one or an hour because it definitely does not bring you in huge transaction costs even if you profit after the trade.

Fees are not the reason why you feel or don't earn totally; it's your strategy. The 1 minute strategy in trading is also a way to earn, but it's too risky. Even if you have indicators, as we know in trading, there is no 100% accuracy, so you will consider margins or the range of when you will enter your trade, so there will be a downtrade. What if after one minute the price spikes more, or between one minute and one minute the price goes the opposite? So it's not advisable, so do 1 minute scalping if you don't have high-accuracy indicators, or if you do technical analysis or any other way to map your trades, then make sure you will earn from it. You've mentioned that you are new to trading, so I suggest you study more about trading. It is a long process for you to become an expert in that field, and you will need to invest in knowledge first if you don't want to end up losing all your capital. I've experienced that, and I'd say gaining more knowledge and techniques will be worth it. 

The truth is that if you trade short-term, your timeframe is only one minute. Why do you work as a scalper? Is it a lot of experience in a short period of time? In such a case, it appears that we will rarely make a profit.

You can never be certain of making a profit while trading in such a short duration. It appears impossible, especially in today's market, where the movement on the chart graph for each exchange is not extremely aggressive. So, why are you making the costs an issue?

The problem I think is in the percentage of profit you take. You must also take enough profit to cover your trading fees. For example, if the trading fee is around 0.2 dollars. So you have to start taking profits when the profit reaches more than 0.5 dollars. And you will get a little profit from your scalping activity. I've also done scalping and sometimes it works. But unfortunately I had to stop it because I was too busy working and didn't have time to keep looking at market charts for a long period of time. And scalping usually requires us to monitor the market continuously. Because we can miss the moment if we are careless. And it can even make us experience losses. Because Scalping is a type of trading that has the highest level of risk.

You have answered your own question, the shorter the time frame that you use to try to trade the markets the greater the effect the fees are going to have, as they will be a higher percentage of your profits.

I would also like to mention that in my opinion you are simply not ready to trade in such an intensive way as you have admitted that you are a newbie, and when it comes to scalping the most important factor that determines if you will make profits or not is your execution, since a single second can be the difference between making profits or not, and I doubt a newbie has the ability to perform perfectly under such difficult circumstances.

Short term trading will not allow you to make a good profits from your investment, because many traders has tried it in the past but they only achieved a little profits that made them to switch to long term trading which is the best for traders to use to experience positive results at the end of their trading. Since you are a newbies in this aspect, I will advise you to trade when the price is high in the market, if you truly want to maximize your profits from your trading, and you want to be happy when you trade in the market just apply long holding. Don't allow fees of any coins to distract you in this bearish season because it will be difficult for you to loss your capital in that particular coins in the market.

What were you thinking in the first place for using 1 minute time frame to trade? For a reminder, a candle time frame determine the amount of profit you are going to make, using 1 minute time frame to trade BTC/USD is as good as wasting your time because you will never make anything from it unlesss there is a pump that happen and for you to make anything for that 1 minute, you should have BTC bought before the pump and you must sell under that 1 minute before it close. It is not good to trade under 1 minute except you are learning trading, start from 60 minutes upward as a daily trader.

When there is high volatility in altcoins, you can play around the ones that is mostly traded with volume but just as said, they are highly volatile, you can make something from the 1 minute candle and you can lose something in the process, they are fun to play with and not to be traded for any financial profit else your hands will burn before your eyes.

I do not have the courage to trade using 1 minute scalping because the movement would be too fast and I would not be able to follow it, especially in this situation. I suggest you look at different time frames, for example, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 30 minutes and 1 hour. You will find which time frame is suitable for you.

I usually use a time frame between 10 and 30 minutes for trades that are not too tight so I still analyze more. I will only use a 1 minute time frame if the movement is good and there is upward movement or in the other name, the market is in bull run so the opportunity to make a profit is greater but that is rare for me doing that.

You also have to pay attention to your profits and trading costs. If the costs are greater than the profits, you are still at a loss and should wait until the position price exceeds your purchase price so you can make a greater profit than the trading costs.

Do some experiments with different time frames and different trading volumes. You need to collect data from those trades and make an average for each time frame for the best scalping method. This is why people say never get hooked on one strategy. Have multiple in your arsenal so that you can use them to bring out the best of every trade based on the situation or market condition.
Recently the market is not in its best condition. There is less volatility to get profits out of any scalping. It's been moving sidewards and this is the worst pattern for any trader. Because the market could move in any direction at any point. If you want the best outcome, consider giving it a rest before the market becomes normal again, or good for scalping again.

If you are just a beginner in trading, you have to trade on spot first and prove to yourself that you can gain through that way. If you made it, you can try futures trading but you need to put a small margin first for test but before you do, you must backtest your strategy.

Before you start live trading, trading plan is a must. Don't ever jump into trade if you don't know what to do because you're just gambling. Imagine, you still experience losses even though you have a backtested plan, how much more if you don't. Aside from that, journal your trades.

As much as you want to be in and out of a trade as soon as possible,  unfortunately the 1 minute time frame isn't for beginners based on the fact that its  very noisy to the extent of it not following high time frame bias.. which means more likely to take you out of trades occasionally.

For a better winning rate, I would suggest you move to the 5min or 15min to clean out the noise and see yourself catch more winners and still be able to scalp on these timeframes without a problem.

Scalping depends mainly on short trades and small profits, so do not expect to make a lot of profits from the scalping strategy within a 1 minute period, especially if the fees are high.

Making profits requires a longer period of time, as small profits resulting from quick trades accumulate, and in the end you can get a good profit, but you need more time and an increase in the number of trades.

To improve profits you must choose longer time frames and use limit orders otherwise all your profits will go to fees.

Why is a percentage of the fees deducted from you? And what kind of trading are you referring to? Spot? Derivatives? Futures? or Perpetual? Honestly, in all my years in this industry, I have never done or tried 1 minute. timeframe for scalping. Since I am not a professional or expert trader in this industry, I only know a little about trading in crypto.

So if you tried that, does that mean you are one of the trading experts? because the one doing the scalping took 1 minute. Only experts and professional traders can do it; it is not possible for newbies or those who don't know or are just starting to learn crypto trading.

If doing scalping, what I usually see is they're setting a 15-minute time frame. But you're free to test any time frame that you're going to do well. If 1 minute doesn't work well for you, change it and see to the next time frame that you may set. Also if the profit you made isn't that much, if there's a margin that you're about to set, take note of it. Otherwise if scalping for any time frame that you're doing don't work still, maybe scalping isn't for you and try the other way of trading like putting a day or two or even a week or longer for your trades until they mature.
Something like that might work for you but if not, just keep on going on if you're persistent in trading and you're seeing yourself doing this for so long.

Yes, that's what everyone is saying and if something isn't working for them, then that strategy has got something wrong so change the plan, change the strategy and see the results again. And do it until something works.

If you're complaining about costs, then look at how much capital you're using to trade scalping, as scalping requires a large amount of capital in order to make a profit that's worth the cost.

Scalping is continuous and will not stop when accumulated profits are not collected.

If no profit is made, then you need to change your strategy.
But in general, if scalping is done correctly and the capital supports it, it will generate good profits.

You are also required to have good trading skills, and do technical analysis.
if you are a beginner then you must be familiar with fast analysis and determine when to enter and exit.

I believe that there is a good time to trade. When using a scalping strategy we must also consider the situation as it works in a time where we can see highly volatile. In fact, 1 minute is quite long when scalping it is probably because there is a problem on your side or the exchange that you are using. Tried to use huge exchanges with high trade volume as I can expect you can make a profit from there but of course, don't make withdrawals right away but rather accumulate more profit and then withdraw just to save the fees.

How much profit you can make depends on your trading skill, because trading skill will give you an idea about what market outcome will be. 1 min scalping strategy is not a good strategy in trading, because trading by following this chart will involve big risk. If you don't have huge amount of funds in your trading account and can't upgrade to vip then you can't reduce the fee.

So avoid over trading to avoid paying huge fees to the exchange. Definitely try to avoid 1 min scalping, as there is a huge risk that will wipe your trading account to zero before you even know it. Therefore, maximum attention will be paid to the money risk management of the trading account along with the fees, so that no unexpected events occur.

I don't know who advised you to start scalping, and I also don't know how much capital you had or how much you have invested. But you should not start scalping on your first day of work. Try to blend in and try to observe others, i.e., traders, holders, and crypto enthusiasts, and learn from them how they manage their funds, manage risk, and, at the same time, make a profit by doing scalping.

I prefer to do simple spot trading because that would be more useful for you, even if the market went down the path it should not,  your assets or tokens would be the same, but they would lose their value and not liquidate like they would in perpetual trading.

I am quite shocked to read that you, as a newbie, started future trading and are also trying to scalp the market. Both need a lot of experience and analysis and without any of them, you can't make enough profits. You must be booking profits whenever you see the PNL going green. Which indicates that you don't have any expected profit in your mind and you are just blindly making trades.

Stay away from using a 1-minute chart to trade, it will do you more harm than good.
Trading in a bigger time frame such as the 30 Minutes,1HR, and H4 will increase your potential to make a profit, thereby helping you cover the fees.


And for the high fees, the platform that I have experienced such high charges is trading on Binance Futures, which led me to quit trading futures on their exchange, Now I use Bybit, So for low trading fees you should try out the Bybit platform to see if you would find them ok in terms of fees.

Make your own trading plan before you start trading. In order to get profits you need to have risk-reward ratio over 2,5:2 and open orders accordingly. If your strategy works you gonna make the profit. If you still don't make the money then you need to make a new strategy.

I'm amazed to see that even if you are a newbie here you are making profits in calling which is the most hard trading type in my opinion. Maybe I am overreacting but I think you as a newbie should not be testing scalping with real money. But I am not saying that's not a good practice because you will learn nothing until you try to do practical work and you are doing practical.

You should increase the scalping period but please keep in mind that in scalping you have to be more careful and have to control your emotions and also never edit or modify the stop loss that you have set while or after the creation of trade. And if you didn't make any SL then please prefer one because sometimes the market takes unexpected turns and can lead you to a dead end and you will lose all of your funds.

You have to increase your profits to overcome the transaction fee or you have to find an exchange that will deduct lesser fees on each transaction. It would be great if you would share on which exchange you are making these trades. But in my thought, Binance is the best but still, I did not face any issue like this on Binance maybe because I always made a bigger profit than the TX fee the opposite of it (make lose).

I guess that you've just gained with a couple of bucks and that's not really enough to call a day if that's the little profit you've made.
The fees aren't that much really but it is that you're just not content with the outcome of how much you've made with that scalped trade you've made.
I'd say that keep on testing any other strategy that you can do and just enjoy the journey that you're doing.

Maybe you are using a small margin and you are taking a profit less than the trading fee charged by the exchange. It's odd to see 1 min scalping trading because it's very short unless you are using high leverage such as x100 which surely gives you enough profit per scalp trade but this is obviously risky and a waste of time since the fee will eat most of your little profit.

Better to choose a much longer time frame to scalp since price action usually happens every hour or longer time frame not in minutes. You will end up just paying for fees er trade.

Thanks for your reply!

Any suggestions regarding a longer timeframe that I can use?

Yes, change your strategy and trade with a longer timeframe.
You're still a beginner and you still need to learn a lot of things about trading, you don't need to rush and aim for an instant profit.
This is actually the mistake of most of the newbies, they trade instantly without investing on their own knowledge first. Learn from that mistake and start doing the right thing. Don't expect to make profit in scalping if you have low capital, it can only works to those who have enough capital to trade with.

If your account is not huge enough to get those VIP level marker and taker fee discounts, then do less of scalp trading. The exchange is going to make a ton of money out of you. This is the bitter truth. Been there.

Use this tool to see how trading fees will affect your profits in the long term (ignore Bybit's old trading fees) and use the current ones - https://www.winrate.io/

Take some swing trade and just dont touch up daytrade/scalping because even veterans on trading wont really be easily touching up this space,considering that its never been that easy or simple dealing with volatility

which is way more worst compared to those traditional markets like forex and stocks but we know that the more volatility it do have the more chances or making profits would really be that possible in a short time
but of course it would really be depending or basing up on how well you do really make out trades. When it comes to fees, then it would really be killing you or would really be even negative
because it would really be just that normal that platforms would really be having that kind of slice on every positions that you would be closing and its business all the way.

Never make yourself rush with scalping because even myself have a hard time on trying to snip out those movements in a short time. 1M to 5M kind of timeframe is never been
that simple but well there are people who do really know on how to play with the movements.

It's nice to know your strategy is working, but note that a 1-minute timeframe poses its own issues as well, and one of them is the fee as you might be paying the fee or barely paid it when a reversal signal would be seen against your position which you don't have an option than to close it, or else you lose more money.

This is why I advise you to change to a higher timeframe, and note that the lower the timeframe, the more the issue you might encounter. And if your strategy is working fine on the 1-minute chart, it should also work on the higher charts. Of course with little adjustments from you.

Ratimov had a nice topic about this:
Scalping is the most controversial way to make money. My experience for 4 years

It pretty much depends on what your available time looks like and what your expectations are, but if you;re looking at making a killing out of it in a short span you've chosen the wrong one.

Scalping is a strategy not an indicator!


He's playing with small time frames scalping, already the method is about large volume and small profits ratio, when you put on top of that low volatility and high fees you might end up with zero profit even if you have placed and closed a winning trade.

How much profit you can make in trading or how much success you can achieve in trading will depend on your trading skills. Scalping is only an indicator, it is not important at all, scalping is used as per the understanding. There are many who use 15-minute scalping and there are many who use one-hour scalping, that is, they use it in a way that is easy to understand. If you are comfortable with understanding 15 minute scalping then you don't need to use hourly or other time scalping. You must be patient by investing at the right time, if you sell an investment shortly after taking it but you cannot profit from it you must be patient and wait for good time. If you can be patient and wait for a good time then surely you will succeed.

Thanks for your reply!

Double checking things:

You suggested to place a "limit" order instead of a "market" order, etc. + set the "Take Profit-Trigger by ROI (%)" (ByBit)? This way it will only take a maker fee?

Till know I placed "market" orders and being charged fees twice: once for the order placed and another time for a closing order.

Thanks!
Mike

I don't think that fees should be your problem or that it is your problem. Scalping is not also your problem if it is working for you and you are making the little profit you are making. How are you sure to keep winning if you extent the duration time for your trade ? Consistency is important in trade and to keep to what works is surely a good way to trade. Coaches don't usually change their winning team in a match, that is a lesson. So you don't have to be greedy, don't allow greed have a better part of you. Keep winning.

You ask similar question just nit long ago: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62884510

Read what I posted there.

If it is derivative market, the fee on Bybit for makers is 0.02%, but for takers it is 0.06% which can be too much for you.

On OKX: Marker fee is 0.02%. Taker fee is 0.05%

On Binance which I have advised you to use, it has lower fee, especially the taker fee of 0.04% or lower.

If you want to gain more, set taje profit so that (using limit order if available) so that only maker fee would be deducted from you after you make the profit amount you want to make.

Hi everyone,

I am a newbie.

I started trading BTCUSDT P. and testing a 1 minute scalping strategy (including several indicators) at the moment.

So far... I don't manage to gain any profits from the trades that I did place lately. I do manage to win trades, but the issue is that the fees killing my profits!

I am wondering if you have any suggestions regarding the above?
Maybe I should move to longer timeframe and not scalping in order to make profits?

Many thanks
Mike