Topic: Norway Split: Wall Observer (Read 421 times)

Quote from: sturle on February 22, 2015, 03:32:55 PM

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha Grin

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

Jeeezzz, I get so upset when you say that! Sturle knows the rules better than anybody! (Seriously, he is a nerd, and he can also be a law-nerd when he puts his efforts into it.)

When you hire a lawyer, you should expect him/her to interprete the law in your favor. It's never about paying for neutral information about what "the book" says. This is why you always have 3 law specialist in a trial. 2 representing each party, and 1 judge. If reading and interpreting the law was simple, we wouldn't need lawyers or judges. We could just go "Judge Dread", he he Wink

LOL. This wasn't a trial.

Seriously, what's your point, Kupsi?

Deloitte was paid for "neutral information about what "the book" says", not to take side with Sturle. The laws is the problem, not Deloitte. You want a lawyer to give you bad information because you pay him?

No. You are wrong. That was never the intention. The current law in Norway, "the book", was made years before bitcoin became an issue. I'm 45, I have been in 3 trials, and I have hired lawyers for different tasks many times. You talk out of your ass, kid. Keep it real.

LOL. What was the intention?

The intention for me and other people in Norway is to remove the 25% VAT on top of EVERY transaction between our local currency (NOK) and bitcoin. It makes it impossible to start a bitcoin-related company in Norway. I'm the organizer of Oslo Bitcoin Meetup, and I understood that this is the biggest problem for bitcoin to thrive in the land of the vikings!

This was Sturles intention for hiring Deloitte:

Kort sagt skal Deloitte i Trondheim finne ut om Skattedirektoratet står på tørr grunn når dei definerer Bitcoin som ei mva-pliktig elektronisk fjernleverbar teneste, og hevdar at du må betale mva for heile summen både for pengar du vekslar til bitcoin og for vara du kjøper.

That is "neutral information about what "the book" says". Deloitte can't change the laws of Norway.

Norway

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 251

Quote from: Kupsi on April 17, 2015, 04:11:05 PM

Quote from: Norway on April 17, 2015, 04:08:03 PM

Quote from: Norway on April 17, 2015, 04:08:03 PM

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha Grin

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

Jeeezzz, I get so upset when you say that! Sturle knows the rules better than anybody! (Seriously, he is a nerd, and he can also be a law-nerd when he puts his efforts into it.)

When you hire a lawyer, you should expect him/her to interprete the law in your favor. It's never about paying for neutral information about what "the book" says. This is why you always have 3 law specialist in a trial. 2 representing each party, and 1 judge. If reading and interpreting the law was simple, we wouldn't need lawyers or judges. We could just go "Judge Dread", he he Wink

LOL. This wasn't a trial.

Seriously, what's your point, Kupsi?

Deloitte was paid for "neutral information about what "the book" says", not to take side with Sturle. The laws is the problem, not Deloitte. You want a lawyer to give you bad information because you pay him?

No. You are wrong. That was never the intention. The current law in Norway, "the book", was made years before bitcoin became an issue. I'm 45, I have been in 3 trials, and I have hired lawyers for different tasks many times. You talk out of your ass, kid. Keep it real.

LOL. What was the intention?

The intention for me and other people in Norway is to remove the 25% VAT on top of EVERY transaction between our local currency (NOK) and bitcoin. It makes it impossible to start a bitcoin-related company in Norway. I'm the organizer of Oslo Bitcoin Meetup, and I understood that this is the biggest problem for bitcoin to thrive in the land of the vikings!

It's best displayed with a picture:

Kupsi

legendary

Activity: 1193

Merit: 1003

9.9.2012: I predict that single digits... <- FAIL

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha Grin

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

Jeeezzz, I get so upset when you say that! Sturle knows the rules better than anybody! (Seriously, he is a nerd, and he can also be a law-nerd when he puts his efforts into it.)

When you hire a lawyer, you should expect him/her to interprete the law in your favor. It's never about paying for neutral information about what "the book" says. This is why you always have 3 law specialist in a trial. 2 representing each party, and 1 judge. If reading and interpreting the law was simple, we wouldn't need lawyers or judges. We could just go "Judge Dread", he he Wink

LOL. This wasn't a trial.

Seriously, what's your point, Kupsi?

Deloitte was paid for "neutral information about what "the book" says", not to take side with Sturle. The laws is the problem, not Deloitte. You want a lawyer to give you bad information because you pay him?

No. You are wrong. That was never the intention. The current law in Norway, "the book", was made years before bitcoin became an issue. I'm 45, I have been in 3 trials, and I have hired lawyers for different tasks many times. You talk out of your ass, kid. Keep it real.

LOL. What was the intention?

Norway

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 251

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha Grin

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

Jeeezzz, I get so upset when you say that! Sturle knows the rules better than anybody! (Seriously, he is a nerd, and he can also be a law-nerd when he puts his efforts into it.)

When you hire a lawyer, you should expect him/her to interprete the law in your favor. It's never about paying for neutral information about what "the book" says. This is why you always have 3 law specialist in a trial. 2 representing each party, and 1 judge. If reading and interpreting the law was simple, we wouldn't need lawyers or judges. We could just go "Judge Dread", he he Wink

LOL. This wasn't a trial.

Seriously, what's your point, Kupsi?

Deloitte was paid for "neutral information about what "the book" says", not to take side with Sturle. The laws is the problem, not Deloitte. You want a lawyer to give you bad information because you pay him?

No. You are wrong. That was never the intention. The current law in Norway, "the book", was made years before bitcoin became an issue. I'm 45, I have been in 3 trials, and I have hired lawyers for different tasks many times. You talk out of your ass, kid. Keep it real.

Kupsi

legendary

Activity: 1193

Merit: 1003

9.9.2012: I predict that single digits... <- FAIL

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha Grin

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

Jeeezzz, I get so upset when you say that! Sturle knows the rules better than anybody! (Seriously, he is a nerd, and he can also be a law-nerd when he puts his efforts into it.)

When you hire a lawyer, you should expect him/her to interprete the law in your favor. It's never about paying for neutral information about what "the book" says. This is why you always have 3 law specialist in a trial. 2 representing each party, and 1 judge. If reading and interpreting the law was simple, we wouldn't need lawyers or judges. We could just go "Judge Dread", he he Wink

LOL. This wasn't a trial.

Seriously, what's your point, Kupsi?

Deloitte was paid for "neutral information about what "the book" says", not to take side with Sturle. The laws is the problem, not Deloitte. You want a lawyer to give you bad information/advice because you pay him?

Norway

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 251

Quote from: Fatman3001 on April 17, 2015, 02:30:49 PM

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha Grin

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

Jeeezzz, I get so upset when you say that! Sturle knows the rules better than anybody! (Seriously, he is a nerd, and he can also be a law-nerd when he puts his efforts into it.)

When you hire a lawyer, you should expect him/her to interprete the law in your favor. It's never about paying for neutral information about what "the book" says. This is why you always have 3 law specialist in a trial. 2 representing each party, and 1 judge. If reading and interpreting the law was simple, we wouldn't need lawyers or judges. We could just go "Judge Dread", he he Wink

LOL. This wasn't a trial.

Seriously, what's your point, Kupsi?

Norway

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 251

Quote from: Norway on April 17, 2015, 02:10:27 PM

Quote from: Fatman3001 on April 17, 2015, 01:53:51 PM

I'm sorry, but I'm not up to speed with what you're talking about. Any links?

The most importent link is this:
(Read the last chapter about "Merverdiavgift")

http://www.skatteetaten.no/no/Radgiver/Rettskilder/Uttalelser/Prinsipputtalelser/Bruk-av-bitcoins--skatte--og-avgiftsmessige-konsekvenser/

If you don't know who Sturle is, I can tell you later. But this is THE BIGGGGEST BITCOIN FIGHT in Norway, making it impossible to do anything for venture capitalists and foreign companies in Norway right now.

This is why Oslo Bitcoin Meetup is in a dark, small pub basement while Norway still is the richest country in the world (per capita).

Norway is too rich to care. It's reflected in the governments attitude to anything non-oil related. I worked for a while trying to establish a conventional data center in Northern Norway, but when every other country is falling over themselves to support and give assurances to attract large entities like CERN, Facebook, Google and Yahoo; Norway doesn't give a....

http://www.tu.no/it/2010/10/19/cern-ville-investere-milliarder-i-norske-fjell-regjeringen-gadd-ikke-svare

Edit: Oil or fishery. I tried to maintain some contact with Innovation Norway, a kind of state owned national development bank/organisation, and after sitting down for 30min explaining to this guy what a data center is he just stared back at me and asked: "Is it comparable to anything in the fishery industry? We mostly deal with them.".

Wow, the pics from the mountain batcave is awsome! You have told me before, but hey!!! Stuff could be done there!
I totally agree, if you want money from the Norwegian government, Innovasjon Norge give the money to "kortreist jern"-kjerringer som presser gamle spikre gjennom øret på cruise-turister!

Kupsi

legendary

Activity: 1193

Merit: 1003

9.9.2012: I predict that single digits... <- FAIL

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha Grin

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

Jeeezzz, I get so upset when you say that! Sturle knows the rules better than anybody! (Seriously, he is a nerd, and he can also be a law-nerd when he puts his efforts into it.)

When you hire a lawyer, you should expect him/her to interprete the law in your favor. It's never about paying for neutral information about what "the book" says. This is why you always have 3 law specialist in a trial. 2 representing each party, and 1 judge. If reading and interpreting the law was simple, we wouldn't need lawyers or judges. We could just go "Judge Dread", he he Wink

LOL. This wasn't a trial.

Norway

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 251

Quote from: Norway on April 17, 2015, 02:10:27 PM

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha Grin

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

Jeeezzz, I get so upset when you say that! Sturle knows the rules better than anybody! (Seriously, he is a nerd, and he can also be a law-nerd when he puts his efforts into it.)

When you hire a lawyer, you should expect him/her to interprete the law in your favor. It's never about paying for neutral information about what "the book" says. This is why you always have 3 law specialist in a trial. 2 representing each party, and 1 judge. If reading and interpreting the law was simple, we wouldn't need lawyers or judges. We could just go "Judge Dread", he he Wink

Fatman3001

legendary

Activity: 1526

Merit: 1013

Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC

Quote from: Fatman3001 on April 17, 2015, 01:53:51 PM

I'm sorry, but I'm not up to speed with what you're talking about. Any links?

The most importent link is this:
(Read the last chapter about "Merverdiavgift")

http://www.skatteetaten.no/no/Radgiver/Rettskilder/Uttalelser/Prinsipputtalelser/Bruk-av-bitcoins--skatte--og-avgiftsmessige-konsekvenser/

If you don't know who Sturle is, I can tell you later. But this is THE BIGGGGEST BITCOIN FIGHT in Norway, making it impossible to do anything for venture capitalists and foreign companies in Norway right now.

This is why Oslo Bitcoin Meetup is in a dark, small pub basement while Norway still is the richest country in the world (per capita).

Norway is too rich to care. It's reflected in the governments attitude to anything non-oil related. I worked for a while trying to establish a conventional data center in Northern Norway, but when every other country is falling over themselves to support and give assurances to attract large entities like CERN, Facebook, Google and Yahoo; Norway doesn't give a....

http://www.tu.no/it/2010/10/19/cern-ville-investere-milliarder-i-norske-fjell-regjeringen-gadd-ikke-svare

Edit: Oil or fishery. I tried to maintain some contact with Innovation Norway, a kind of state owned national development bank/organisation, and after sitting down for 30min explaining to this guy what a data center is he just stared back at me and asked: "Is it comparable to anything in the fishery industry? We mostly deal with them.".

Kupsi

legendary

Activity: 1193

Merit: 1003

9.9.2012: I predict that single digits... <- FAIL

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha Grin

Sturle didn't pay Deloitte to take side with him. He paid them to get their opinion on Norwegian VAT rules and Bitcoin.

Norway

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 251

Quote from: Fatman3001 on April 17, 2015, 01:53:51 PM

And then he does a fantastic fundraiser, gets the amount in two days and hires the "services" from the nasty company Deloitte in Trondheim! And what do the assholes do? They fuck Sturle (and all the people giving funds, and all the people trying to invent/create a living in Norway after the oil is gone.)

What did Deloitte do wrong? I believe it is Skatteetaten screwing people over, not Deloitte?

Normally, you would be right. But when you pay a lawyer 20 BTC, you should expect him to side with you. In this case, the lawyer you paid, sided with the enemy.

My guess is that Deloitte have big bank clients and an agenda.

But I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, ha ha Grin

tomothy

sr. member

Activity: 258

Merit: 250

Wow 25% mandatory year end tax; that will make the cost of doing business a bit unsavory.

VAT
Turnover of Bitcoin is ordinary taxable supplies of electronic services. Tax Directorate's assessment is that Bitcoins can not be considered as "legal tender" (VAT Act § 3-6 d) and therefore not be considered a exempt "financial service". Bitcoins are classified as "service" (§ 1-3 letter c), namely the "electronic service" (§ 1-3 letter j). Thus, operators add 25 percent VAT on its sales of Bitcoins. Who considered employed, you can read more about here .

In othernews: So what's going on with the market today? We were on a nice down trend but then it seems like we crossed the 15m macd and are now rising steadily? I was promised doom! j/k but no, seriously. Especially in light of weird OKCoin futures snafu, I don't understand what's going on anymore?!

Norway

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 251

I'm sorry, but I'm not up to speed with what you're talking about. Any links?

The most importent link is this:
(Read the last chapter about "Merverdiavgift")

http://www.skatteetaten.no/no/Radgiver/Rettskilder/Uttalelser/Prinsipputtalelser/Bruk-av-bitcoins--skatte--og-avgiftsmessige-konsekvenser/

If you don't know who Sturle is, I can tell you later. But this is THE BIGGGGEST BITCOIN FIGHT in Norway, making it impossible to do anything for venture capitalists and foreign companies in Norway right now.

This is why Oslo Bitcoin Meetup is in a dark, small pub basement while Norway still is the richest country in the world (per capita).

Kupsi

legendary

Activity: 1193

Merit: 1003

9.9.2012: I predict that single digits... <- FAIL