offering swaps on Chinese exchanges?

trout

sr. member

Activity: 333

Merit: 252

Quote from: Mieehayii on December 01, 2014, 01:42:56 AM

why not swap on tera exchange?

can you give some more information about this? That's the first time I hear about this exchange.

Quote from: gizmoh

The only sane conclusion is that OKcoin itself and a few big friends are able to offer swaps. BTC/LTC being loaned are probably clients assets and part of CNY might be clients fund. That is how they make big money...

Right, that makes sense. After all, they have to be making money *somehow* - and with 0 fees
it seems difficult.

gizmoh

legendary

Activity: 1428

Merit: 1000

I contacted Okcoin twice to be able to offer swaps. Reply was they are not accepting new applications as they are saturated! And also that you have to be a company with capital of 100 million CNY ...

I have long positions at okcoin and been trying to refinance them cheaper at 0.09%. So far that loan demand has been sitting there for few weeks with no takers, while at some point there was an abundance of loan offers at 0.1%

The only sane conclusion is that OKcoin itself and a few big friends are able to offer swaps. BTC/LTC being loaned are probably clients assets and part of CNY might be clients fund. That is how they make big money...

Mieehayii

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

why not swap on tera exchange?

trout

sr. member

Activity: 333

Merit: 252

Quote from: criptix on November 30, 2014, 05:21:54 PM

its about who lends the money/btc.
on bitfinex the traders/users lend out money/btc.

exactly.

Quote from: inca

Saying that I have lent coins out for some time on finex this year but took them off recently when the rates fell below a useful level.

That's what I did as well. Now I'm looking for other platforms to lend coins on.

criptix

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Activity: 2464

Merit: 1145

Quote from: inca on November 30, 2014, 04:33:32 PM

Quote from: trout on November 28, 2014, 05:34:16 PM

Quote from: Tzupy on November 28, 2014, 04:12:04 PM

Quote from: trout on November 28, 2014, 03:55:29 PM

bump?
c'mon, speculators, I'm sure some of you know.

more investigation from me: BTCChina allows you to "loan" funds, but does
not (as far as I see) allow you to lend funds. This means they are lending out themselves.
Weird (or rather: smells of fractional reserve).

Interesting, they could be pumping the price with fake fiat. Thank you for the information.

as far as I understand, they are lending both fiat and BTC, so the argument works both ways.
I agree that it makes one thinkg of fractional reserve though/

How is it fractional reserve at all or any different to Bitfinex?

It is simply allowing 'traders' on their respective sites to take long or short bets with leverage (i.e a bigger bet than money they have on the site) which involves someone actually stumping up the capital (either bitcoins or fiat). This capital is lent out for a daily rate and therefore is at risk during times of extremely wild major market moves, hence the 0.1% a day rate.

Saying that I have lent coins out for some time on finex this year but took them off recently when the rates fell below a useful level.

its about who lends the money/btc.
on bitfinex the traders/users lend out money/btc.

here for example btcchina lends money/btc which doesnt come from traders/users, so its possible that they have fractional reserve. (they use the money/btc users deposit to give loans)

inca

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Activity: 1176

Merit: 1000

Quote from: trout on November 28, 2014, 05:34:16 PM

Quote from: Tzupy on November 28, 2014, 04:12:04 PM

Quote from: trout on November 28, 2014, 03:55:29 PM

bump?
c'mon, speculators, I'm sure some of you know.

more investigation from me: BTCChina allows you to "loan" funds, but does
not (as far as I see) allow you to lend funds. This means they are lending out themselves.
Weird (or rather: smells of fractional reserve).

Interesting, they could be pumping the price with fake fiat. Thank you for the information.

as far as I understand, they are lending both fiat and BTC, so the argument works both ways.
I agree that it makes one thinkg of fractional reserve though/

How is it fractional reserve at all or any different to Bitfinex?

It is simply allowing 'traders' on their respective sites to take long or short bets with leverage (i.e a bigger bet than money they have on the site) which involves someone actually stumping up the capital (either bitcoins or fiat). This capital is lent out for a daily rate and therefore is at risk during times of extremely wild major market moves, hence the 0.1% a day rate.

Saying that I have lent coins out for some time on finex this year but took them off recently when the rates fell below a useful level.

trout

sr. member

Activity: 333

Merit: 252

Quote from: Tzupy on November 28, 2014, 04:12:04 PM

Quote from: trout on November 28, 2014, 03:55:29 PM

bump?
c'mon, speculators, I'm sure some of you know.

more investigation from me: BTCChina allows you to "loan" funds, but does
not (as far as I see) allow you to lend funds. This means they are lending out themselves.
Weird (or rather: smells of fractional reserve).

Interesting, they could be pumping the price with fake fiat. Thank you for the information.

as far as I understand, they are lending both fiat and BTC, so the argument works both ways.
I agree that it makes one thinkg of fractional reserve though/

Tzupy

legendary

Activity: 2170

Merit: 1094

Quote from: trout on November 28, 2014, 03:55:29 PM

bump?
c'mon, speculators, I'm sure some of you know.

more investigation from me: BTCChina allows you to "loan" funds, but does
not (as far as I see) allow you to lend funds. This means they are lending out themselves.
Weird (or rather: smells of fractional reserve).

Interesting, they could be pumping the price with fake fiat. Thank you for the information.

trout

sr. member

Activity: 333

Merit: 252

bump?
c'mon, speculators, I'm sure some of you know.

more investigation from me: BTCChina allows you to "loan" funds, but does
not (as far as I see) allow you to lend funds. This means they are lending out themselves.
Weird (or rather: smells of fractional reserve).

poncom

sr. member

Activity: 318

Merit: 250

Quote from: trout on November 27, 2014, 05:00:09 PM

yeah that's a strange scheme. Why are they doing this though? Just encouraging people keeping BTC on their site?

I suppose so, I found out about it because I kept getting little pop ups telling me cryptsy has sent me a tiny fraction of a bitcoin.

trout

sr. member

Activity: 333

Merit: 252

yeah that's a strange scheme. Why are they doing this though? Just encouraging people keeping BTC on their site?

To be fair to bitfinex, I have to add that their swap rates are market-determined.
Why would people manually place swap offers at as low as 0.001% daily is beyond me,
but apparently that's what's happening.

poncom

sr. member

Activity: 318

Merit: 250

Quote from: trout on November 27, 2014, 03:44:02 PM

I tried offering BTC swaps at Bitfinex, and I have no complaints apart from that
the interest rate has become too low.
Right now it is 0.0055% daily, which, in my opinion, is completely useless.

That's really low, even Cryptsy pays you a tiny amount for any of your bitcoins on the exchange. There's some complicated way of working out how much that's explained in the post below. From the example given it sounds like Cryptsy's rebate rate is about half of Bitfinex's interest rate.

Quote from: Palmdetroit on September 24, 2014, 05:03:31 AM

Code:

What Are Balance Rebates?

Balance rebates are basically a cut of our collected transaction fees for users who hold balances in certain currencies on our exchange. Currently the currencies we collect fees on are BTC, LTC, and USD. Users who have a balance in these currencies will be included in the pool of users who get a daily rebate in the same currency. 
How Much Will I Earn in Balance Rebates?

We pay a 2% rebate. Balance calculations include available and held for order balances.  So even if all your funds are held for open orders, they are included in the calculation.

So for example: We collect 10 BTC in trade fees in a day. This leaves 0.2 BTC available for rebates (2%). If you had 100 BTC on account and between all users the sum of all balances was 10,000 BTC, then you would receive 1% of the total rebate for that day. In this case that would be a 0.002 BTC daily rebate. Balances and rebates are calculated and distributed separately for each of the BTC, LTC, and USD currencies. 
When Do I Get Paid My Cryptsy Points and Balance Rebates?

The program which calculates payouts and makes disbursements runs after midnight EST every day. Usually around 2am EST.

http://blog.cryptsy.com/post/94775274327/updates-to-cryptsy-points-program-and-new-balance

trout

sr. member

Activity: 333

Merit: 252

short version: Offering BTC swaps on Chinese exchanges: are there any (hidden) fees, limitation, requirements?

long version: Trying to profit from the bear market without trading (which I am not good at).
I tried offering BTC swaps at Bitfinex, and I have no complaints apart from that
the interest rate has become too low.
Right now it is 0.0055% daily, which, in my opinion, is completely useless.
(To put it more correctly, not worth the risk of keeping one's BTC on an exchange.)

On the other hand, OKcoin swaps market seems to offer 0.1% daily (and that at no
fees as opposed to bitfinex' 15%), which seems pretty good.

So I am considering putting some BTC there, and I'm wondering whether there are any "surprises"
waiting. Such as:
- hidden requirements, like: you can't withdraw your BTC unless you do our KYC check.
(I'd prefer not doing any verification, apart from email verification)
- hidden fees
- crippling withdrawal limits
- ...

I haven't checked the other Chinese exchanges, but I'd appreciate any feedback/experience accounts
on those as well.

Topic: offering swaps on Chinese exchanges? (Read 1426 times)