Topic: Officially sweden joins NATO (Read 180 times)

Here's a quick update in a pic (highlighted countries are in NATO now)

(click image for larger view)
NATO accepting Ukraine directly is way riskier move then accepting other countries that have border with Russia. Because if Russia wouldn't back off or at least stop their actions right after that, it would be in direct open war with US and Europe.

And while accepting countries that have a border with Russia might seem like a provocation, it's about de-escalation. Without joining to NATO other border countries would be next. Because after invading country of 41 million citizens, would an idea of attacking Finland that has population of 5.5 million seem impossible for them? Even though Finland has build their and securing their supply chain since last war with USSR and has comprehensive conscription service.

They get those resources by invading. But Russian's have also lived numerous generations under dictatorship, oppression and corruption. So Russian citizens have different expectations about their governments sustaining them. Tolerance level of citizens is seemingly quite high when government has total power to jail & kill opposition and when citizens kept under misinformation.

But you shouldn't really even compare NATO and Russia expanding themselves. Russia is expanding by invading countries that don't want in. And raping and killing kids while doing that and submitting those invaded under a dictatorship.

Congratulations from the bottom of my heart to Sweden! The right move for dwarf aggression. I am from Russia and I hope for our liberation from the regime...

I’m just saying that Ukraine have balls to defy Russia and go to war against Russia because they are confident that NATO will back them once this huge scale war happened.

Russia view NATO as threat to their goal as you said already that they want to reclaim the old USSR, They are just expanding until they both hit another country like Ukraine that both Russia and NATO have an interest for expansion. This is what I don’t understand on this expansion. Does their resources is already not enough to sustain their own citizen?

I am struggling to make sense of what you said.

Ruzzia is not invading Ukraine because of NATO. NATO was not in Georgia, nor is in any of the other countries that Ruzzia has deployed troops in Africa. Ruzzia and more precisely Putin is invading Ukraine because they have imperial ambitions and consider themselves superior to anyone. It is sad to see this is the case in the XXI century, but Putin wants to expand to the old USSR satellites.

I’m not updated anymore on how big the NATO is but I'm still skeptical on what’s the essence of expanding their territory if the result of this is a sure large scale war in the future. Why countries in EU needs to create a faction that dedicated to fight each other while they can always cooperate to prosper together rather than fighting to each other.

Only government is the one who wants more power while the citizens wants only a peaceful life.

NATO should accept Ukraine application and help to stop war instead of accepting country near the border since it will just provoke Russia to continue the aggression due to the expansion of NATO.

No country can base its defend strategy on the mere goodwill of their neighbours, particularly when the neighbours have a consistent track record of hybrid attacks, generating "protests", getting "called to defend Ruzzians", flattening cities (Aleppo, Bakmuth, Avdiivka, ....) and having an army that has an excessive weight in society, politics and international relations.

Just remember the proposal of Putin for "peace" - Ukraine surrenders their army and then he won't invade .... does anyone want to take the bait?

It looks like the fear of Russia, is the beginning of wisdom for European countries, with the present example of what Ukraine, is going through now, other countries in Europe, will want to join a strong alliance like NATO, so that they will not be invaded by Russia, for whatever reasons. Russian invasion of Ukraine, has become a wake up call for most European countries that don't have strong alliance with Russia, to protect themselves with a strong intimidating NATO alliance, I'm sure like most people that Russia, did not envisage this exodus of countries to NATO  in order to avoid this Ukraine experience. I think that Sweden made the right decision, considering what is happening in their continent presently.

There is no shock. Finland is on its way, Norway and denmark have been there since long. It is very clear how Putins stupid decision have made all countries conscious of how weak their position would be if Ruzzia decided that there were "too many Nazis" or an "oppressed Ruzzian minority" in, for example, Lithuania, Finland or... for that matter, in Italy.

Sweden was thinking about joining NATO for years but did not want to undermine its relations with Russia and then Russia made the first step towards genocide, so all doubts that Sweden had disappeared in an instant.


The EU has no military pacts as far as I  know, so it doesn't really matter if a member of the EU gets attacked. NATO is different, it's mainly a military pact.

I think I explained a few times why attacking Poland is almost impossible for Russia and the Russians know it, which is why they protested a lot against Baltic States joining the NATO, but not so much when Poland and Czechia joined in 99. Those territories were lost to them long time ago. Putin himself said at the time that he understands that NATO is expanding and Russia will have to deal with that, but when the pact knocked at Ukraine's door it was too much for Putin. He felt like the noose is tightening too much.

We are all missing something and looks like Ukraine wanting to join NATO was not the reason why Russia attacked Ukraine as they have not raised eyebrows with Sweden and Finland. Russia just wants to occupy Ukraine and used all these NATO drama as an excuse to occupy Ukraine and cold bloodedly destroyed an developing nation. Sad that still people are butchered and this has to be stopped.

Man, as Lithuanian I can relate to things said by you very well. I think that we are under bigger influence of Russia than Finland. After all we have many people who understand Russian language, missing Soviet Union and they're easy to affect by Russian propaganda. And there is some politicians who are pushing Russian narrative, though, there is no chance for them to come into power. I'm just glad that we joined NATO on time.
Violating air space is common thing, they feel safe to do it and just checking NATO red lines. Once they crossed it when Turkey shot down one of their fighter jets.
And Medvedev, I wouldn't pay much attention to words of this drunk clown. He probably already threatened to destroy half of world with nuclear missiles. Seems that he just took role of Zhrinovksy after he died.

That's another important question. I'm afraid that period after war can be not less scary than war itself when they will have to rebuild their economy, infrastructure, physical and emotional health of people. In current conditions they wouldn't meet most of requirements to join EU, so, they will need top get lot of help.

That special military "operation" was just a matter of time. That's why we (Finland) joined. They have also violated our airspace with freaking fighter jets when ever they had to show a power move. Because they knew we wouldn't respond too harshly as we wouldn't like to rock the boat. They have used paid agitators and russian troll factory on our finnish forums and but they are pretty easy to spot, as finnish is one of the hardest language to master, and non-Finn pretending to be native Finns make make errors constantly by using translators and pushing Kremilin's propaganda. It sticks out.

Before we joined, Russia stated that it would mean serious militaristic and political consequences against Finland. But before it our airspace was constantly violated by Russian Jets as a power move as they knew we wouldn't want to rock the boat by responding too harshly. And here's Dmitry Medvedev mentioning finland and threating with nuclear missiles because of nato.

We follow closely to Russian media and are aware of their blatant lies and how they have been now building an image of Finland as an enemy. They have even changed their school textbooks to rewrite Russian history that fits to that. They have also lately been removing Finnish soldier's graves in and memorial plaques Russia.

And needles to say we don't have any diplomatic relations with them as Russia has declared Finland as unfriendly country.

Putin provably had plans on invading Ukraine from very long ago and hence, he did not want Ukraine to join NATO before launching his operation/ aka invasion against the people of Ukraine. If Ukraine had joined NATO before, then Putin would have thought twice before doing what he did.
It is all about Russian imperialism, after all, the seek for warmer water and rich lands to control by Kremlin.
Russia may be the biggest country in the planet by area in square kilometers, but it does not mean they have the best conditions in that area, much of their territory is cold tundra, thrus why is so attractive for them to take over Ukraine, which has access to the black sea and closer to Europe.

Also, I believe after the war is over, hopefully sooner than later, it would be productive for Ukraine to also join the European Union before joining NATO, it would help to boost their economy and help them to rebuild their country quickly from the absolute state of chaos left behind by the Russian mercenaries.

You gotta wonder if this is what Putin envisioned when he kicked off that whole invasion of Ukraine war.  Sweden and Finland signing up with NATO represents a pretty seismic change in the European security scene, making it clear they wanna safeguard their autonomy.  This could easily set off reactions all over the area.

Makes you think which other country's gonna be knocking on NATO's door next?

Sweden been neutral for so many years and didn't saw any reasonsto join NATO until Putin started war against Ukraine. And now Baltic sea basically become lake of NATO. Did Putin got what he wanted?
But I'm wondering why Ukraine potentially joining NATO is huge danger for Russia and they're quite OK with Finland and Sweden joining NATO. After all they're not threatening to start ''special military operation'' against them. I guess this only shows that this invasion isn't about NATO expansion to East like they're saying.

Quite ironic Russia started this war against Ukraine, in part because of the influence and size of NATO had become much bigger than they were willing to deal with, and after so many months of war NATO has started to actually become bigger and expand in Europe.
I believe it is the right message to send to Moscow, they are not supposed to reach their political and geopolitical aims through the use of violence, specially against members of the European Union.

What would have happened if Putin realized that attacking a sovereign country was enough for members of NATO to start to quit the alliance? It would be more than enough of a reason for him to perpetuate his aggression against Ukraine and perhaps even against other neighbor countries like Poland. (Perish the thought). Putin and the Kremlin getting the directly opposite result to their bellic strategy is the right thing to happen for him to thing twice in the case he even considered to expand his senseless attack again de other sovereign republics in east Europe. 
One does not need to be a genius to know Putin is praying for Trump to get into de White House again, so hopefully NATO gets weaker. That is the quality of leadership Russia has nowadays.

Sweden joined NATO as the 33rd member sending a shock wave to the other neighboring countries. it is a critical step by the Swedish government towards strengthening their securities alliance of pact.