OKCoin and Bitfinex have the same volume now!

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Quote from: talkbitcoin on January 29, 2017, 05:40:52 AM

and also it comes from this belief that since bitcoin price is volatile it means it is a gamble. but there has always been clear patters but with a bit larger swings that you normally see.

one of bitcoin's prime uses has been as a plaything for chinese gamblers. now that's effectively over it's gonna have some kind of effect in the short term.

talkbitcoin

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Quote from: metalbean on January 29, 2017, 02:42:42 AM

Quote from: TeeBone on January 29, 2017, 01:59:35 AM

Yep. They dont look at bitcoin like they do gold (generational wealth). They play with BTC like chips in a casino.

That's the best reasoning I've heard

not really!
it mostly comes from someone who has been shouting $725 and $655 prices for a while.
and also it comes from this belief that since bitcoin price is volatile it means it is a gamble. but there has always been clear patters but with a bit larger swings that you normally see.

Quote from: MFahad on January 29, 2017, 03:45:02 AM

... then bitfinex same volume means no more fake volume in Chinese exchanges also.

that may be. but you can never say there is no fake volume!
these exchanges have to compete with each other, for example if bitfinex wasn't on top, bitstamp could have gotten more volume, same goes for Chinese. that is why i believe they will always report some extra fake volume when they are sending out their results.

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Quote from: ethereumhunter on January 26, 2017, 10:59:39 PM

i hope that volume is not fake, i think that both market is want to be top leader of bitcoin market, okcoin will represent with cny and bitfinex will represent with dollar usd. maybe the china market is downgrade because of china new year and many people which is doing trading in china market need to go holiday and spend their profit.

Good to see both OKcoin and Bitfinex side by side on volume. I hope it is nothing to do with bitfinex recent hack and OKCoin Chinese fake volume. Removing these two factors really makes thing interesting and good for bitcoin itself. Chinese exchanges normally accused of fake volume but then bitfinex same volume means no more fake volume in Chinese exchanges also.

Herbert2020

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Quote from: metalbean on January 29, 2017, 02:44:29 AM

Best way to look at it is after the Chinese New Year when thing go back to normalcy in a week.

That's the reflection of the real trade.

things are the way they are and have always been normal, Chinese new year, Christmas, whatever other new years we have in the world has no effect on bitcoin "directly".
when you see a sudden rise and when you see a sudden drop back, it is all normal as it is normal now that price is stable, and stuck at 910ish dollar. these are different phases that we can see in any market, maybe in smaller scale there but they exist.

and the current volume of Chinese exchanges is now normal.

metalbean

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Best way to look at it is after the Chinese New Year when thing go back to normalcy in a week.

That's the reflection of the real trade.

metalbean

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Quote from: TeeBone on January 29, 2017, 01:59:35 AM

Quote from: European Central Bank on January 25, 2017, 07:31:51 AM

it'll fall further and maybe all or most of the chinese exchanges will close their doors.

you can have a bitstamp or gemini with fees and no margin when there's a little bit of actual usage and buyers with some long term vision. the chinese are degenerate gamblers with zero actual use for bitcoin.

Yep. They dont look at bitcoin like they do gold (generational wealth). They play with BTC like chips in a casino.

That's the best reasoning I've heard

metalbean

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Quote from: Catmony on January 26, 2017, 02:33:06 AM

Quote from: talkbitcoin on January 25, 2017, 07:06:38 AM

this is an interesting turn of event from China to see how their ridiculously huge volume drop this much and go down to the level of the daily volume that western exchanges such Bitfinex have!

This is due to the fees those platform recently implemented and it also shows that what was the real trading volume of these chinese exchanges before. All those big number in trading volume were just result of fake orders made by them to lure more traders in their platform. Grin

That's an interesting observation, if you look at the volume that they are registering before it's just crazy. For 30 day volume each of the top three exchanges in China had about 30 million BTCs traded and each have ~30% market share for trade volume, that leaves only ~10% for the rest. It will be interesting to see what happens after the fees are implemented

https://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/volume/30d?c=e&t=bar

thebatletbet

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okcoin and all china exchanger, volume transaction is big down
because china country is holyday , lunar year , happy new year, so china people not active in bitcoin trading

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Quote from: European Central Bank on January 25, 2017, 07:31:51 AM

it'll fall further and maybe all or most of the chinese exchanges will close their doors.

you can have a bitstamp or gemini with fees and no margin when there's a little bit of actual usage and buyers with some long term vision. the chinese are degenerate gamblers with zero actual use for bitcoin.

Yep. They dont look at bitcoin like they do gold (generational wealth). They play with BTC like chips in a casino.

marcoman22

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The great fall in trade volume in chinese exchanges is a result of exchanges announcement that, No free trade policy is ended and margin trading would be halted.Though analysts already speculated the situation , the situation is much worse than expected.OK coin trading volume followed a tragectory plunging more than 50% from roughly 26000 BTC during last hour of 23rd jan to approximately 13000 btc in the first hour of 24th jan.The downward trend continued until trade volume fell to below 500btc.These much days, the enormous amount of fake volume misleaded the traders. Since a fee is applied for every trade, auto trading bots can no mlonger function profitably.Price manipulation is less pervasive and volatility is expected to drop as well.Hope, Bitcoin would be traded hereafter in its original price in exchanges all over the world.

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Quote from: royalfestus on January 26, 2017, 11:21:41 PM

Quote from: ImHash on January 26, 2017, 07:23:08 PM

Were people that naive to believe their fake volume? or maybe their own people really are naive, because no matter what it was obvious from miles away, now how funny that is even though they faked the volume network didn't have issues regarding transactions

The idea of a fake volume is still being investigated and not yet verified, whereas the community is large enough to have such volume. They have quite enough crypto enthusiast, If they complain of the volume of Okcoin what of other china exchanges

There is absolutely no doubt that earlier volumes were fake. The only reason why those exchanges could put out such volumes is because of the zero transaction fees. Even bitcoin info sites like coinmarketcap.com use to ignore the volumes of those chinese exchanges.

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Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on January 25, 2017, 10:07:31 PM

This has been their real volume all along. It is old news that their reported volume was seriously inflated.

altho i agree that now there volume data makes more sense
I cannot agree that "This has been their real volume all along"
they have removed leverage and more importantly added trading fees!
its no longer possible for traders to try and flip there 0.5BTC back and forth for 0.0002% profit each time 24/7
all these "scalping bots" are dead in the water.

IMO there "real volume" dropped 50% AND they turned off there own volume generation bot which might of accounted for 50% of there volume, hence the lack of volume seen today.

its unclear if they will remain the leaders by volume, i think a lot of chinese traders might start using other BTC/FIAT exchanges that offer leverage.

but IMO china's exchanges getting hit hard like this, is a net loss on BTC demand since not all of this volume lost was fake.

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Quote from: ImHash on January 26, 2017, 07:23:08 PM

Were people that naive to believe their fake volume? or maybe their own people really are naive, because no matter what it was obvious from miles away, now how funny that is even though they faked the volume network didn't have issues regarding transactions

The idea of a fake volume is still being investigated and not yet verified, whereas the community is large enough to have such volume. They have quite enough crypto enthusiast, If they complain of the volume of Okcoin what of other china exchanges

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i hope that volume is not fake, i think that both market is want to be top leader of bitcoin market, okcoin will represent with cny and bitfinex will represent with dollar usd. maybe the china market is downgrade because of china new year and many people which is doing trading in china market need to go holiday and spend their profit.

Slark

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Quote from: ImHash on January 26, 2017, 07:23:08 PM

Were people that naive to believe their fake volume? or maybe their own people really are naive, because no matter what it was obvious from miles away, now how funny that is even though they faked the volume network didn't have issues regarding transactions

It was well known fact that their volume is inflated, but no one really have idea how big real volume actually is.
Without margin trade bubble it will be more clear and we will have better comparison once and for all.
Network is having periodic problems with amount of data sent whether Chinese volume is big or not.

ImHash

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Were people that naive to believe their fake volume? or maybe their own people really are naive, because no matter what it was obvious from miles away, now how funny that is even though they faked the volume network didn't have issues regarding transactions

Febo

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Quote from: darkangel11 on January 26, 2017, 05:36:47 PM

Quote from: Catmony on January 26, 2017, 02:33:06 AM

Quote from: talkbitcoin on January 25, 2017, 07:06:38 AM

this is an interesting turn of event from China to see how their ridiculously huge volume drop this much and go down to the level of the daily volume that western exchanges such Bitfinex have!

This is due to the fees those platform recently implemented and it also shows that what was the real trading volume of these chinese exchanges before. All those big number in trading volume were just result of fake orders made by them to lure more traders in their platform. Grin

Not all the orders were "fake." When there were no fees people were making more transactions, because even a .5% move could equal profit. Day traders were playing the market, siphoning fractions of a coin with every closed position. Now fees have limited their movement, they can't blindly close position, but have to wait for a larger price move, which limits the volume.

Well that makes some sense. I had no ideas why they were doing this. So was just day traders making profit. And only way to make any profit was to mass trade.

darkangel11

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Quote from: Catmony on January 26, 2017, 02:33:06 AM

Quote from: talkbitcoin on January 25, 2017, 07:06:38 AM

this is an interesting turn of event from China to see how their ridiculously huge volume drop this much and go down to the level of the daily volume that western exchanges such Bitfinex have!

This is due to the fees those platform recently implemented and it also shows that what was the real trading volume of these chinese exchanges before. All those big number in trading volume were just result of fake orders made by them to lure more traders in their platform. Grin

Not all the orders were "fake." When there were no fees people were making more transactions, because even a .5% move could equal profit. Day traders were playing the market, siphoning fractions of a coin with every closed position. Now fees have limited their movement, they can't blindly close position, but have to wait for a larger price move, which limits the volume.

BitHodler

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Quote from: cakravothy on January 26, 2017, 04:38:26 PM

iam not understand what's happen about china exchanger, huobi, okcoin and more
ussualy volume transaction in huobi and okcoin until reach over one million bitcoin, today i can see in coinmarketcap only over 9000 bitcoin
what is problem china exchanger, all exchanger volume transaction is down grade until 99% is down volume transaction

There is no problem with these Chinese exchanges anymore due to strict policies set up by PBOC recently.

I thought that their volumes would drop from a few million traded Bitcoins per day, to just a few hundred thousand, but that's not even close to the actual number of around ten thousand today.

To make these exchanges look even worse, Poloniex the altcoin exchange generated more volume today than Okcoin, Huobi and BtcChina together.

It means that we have been tricked into thinking that these exchanges were super large while they in reality don't seem to be any larger than Bitfinex, Bitstamp, and the list goes on. If you get surpassed by an altcoin exchange, then something is not right.

cakravothy

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iam not understand what's happen about china exchanger, huobi, okcoin and more
ussualy volume transaction in huobi and okcoin until reach over one million bitcoin, today i can see in coinmarketcap only over 9000 bitcoin
what is problem china exchanger, all exchanger volume transaction is down grade until 99% is down volume transaction

lumeire

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The question now is how much of that is true volume? We all know exchanges fluff this kind of data.

talkbitcoin

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Quote from: davis196 on January 26, 2017, 01:42:41 AM

-snip-
I`m wondering is there any way to proove that this information is legit?
Are there any exchange platforms that manipulate such trading volumes to make people think they are bigger?
Or maybe smaller?

there are some ways to do some double checking for example but there is never going to be a way to make sure if this is all true or false. our only source is what the exchanges themselves report. it can be falsified too.
but you can check the number of users, the orderbooks and other things to see how they look to some extent.

panju1

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Quote from: serjent05 on January 26, 2017, 11:25:36 AM

Quote from: jaberwock on January 26, 2017, 09:34:15 AM

One might argue that people are being cautious until the "inspection" made by the People's Bank of China, and because we are almost in the chinese new year, so people just take some break from trading, and that the market is quite boring recently, so the volume will be lower overall

And if the volume doesn't drop to alarming low levels they will survive, the operational costs in China are lower

Well no matter what they say about China's holiday is the reason why their volume gone lower, I think this stats clearly stated that China controlling Bitcoin is a fallacy. Look at the distribution of trades now, A sudden change in graphical presentation after the tax implemenation. And it looks almost evenly now.

The reason people say that China controls Bitcoin is because of the hashing power in China, not because of the trading volumes. In that respect, China is still way ahead and the taxes have had no impact whatsoever.

serjent05

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Quote from: jaberwock on January 26, 2017, 09:34:15 AM

One might argue that people are being cautious until the "inspection" made by the People's Bank of China, and because we are almost in the chinese new year, so people just take some break from trading, and that the market is quite boring recently, so the volume will be lower overall

And if the volume doesn't drop to alarming low levels they will survive, the operational costs in China are lower

Well no matter what they say about China's holiday is the reason why their volume gone lower, I think this stats clearly stated that China controlling Bitcoin is a fallacy. Look at the distribution of trades now, A sudden change in graphical presentation after the tax implemenation. And it looks almost evenly now.

jaberwock

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One might argue that people are being cautious until the "inspection" made by the People's Bank of China, and because we are almost in the chinese new year, so people just take some break from trading, and that the market is quite boring recently, so the volume will be lower overall

And if the volume doesn't drop to alarming low levels they will survive, the operational costs in China are lower

amacar2

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Quote from: alyssa85 on January 25, 2017, 07:50:05 AM

I guess it depends on how much they were making from margin lending. Looking at those trade volumes, they won't make the money up with trading fees, so there will likely be some mergers.

Yes it seems we will see some merger between atleast two trading platform, or they may increase trading fee to sustain their operation. They may not be able to earn enough to cover their running cost.

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The China market is so amazing, passionate, one of the evidence that the use of the bitcoin in China are the largest in the world, so whatever happens in China will be against the price of the bitcoin globally.

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Quote from: talkbitcoin on January 25, 2017, 07:06:38 AM

this is an interesting turn of event from China to see how their ridiculously huge volume drop this much and go down to the level of the daily volume that western exchanges such Bitfinex have!

This is due to the fees those platform recently implemented and it also shows that what was the real trading volume of these chinese exchanges before. All those big number in trading volume were just result of fake orders made by them to lure more traders in their platform. Grin

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Quote from: talkbitcoin on January 25, 2017, 07:06:38 AM

this is an interesting turn of event from China to see how their ridiculously huge volume drop this much and go down to the level of the daily volume that western exchanges such Bitfinex have!

I`m wondering is there any way to proove that this information is legit?
Are there any exchange platforms that manipulate such trading volumes to make people think they are bigger?
Or maybe smaller?

RyNinDaCleM

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This has been their real volume all along. It is old news that their reported volume was seriously inflated.

BillyBobZorton

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Quote from: European Central Bank on January 25, 2017, 07:31:51 AM

it'll fall further and maybe all or most of the chinese exchanges will close their doors.

you can have a bitstamp or gemini with fees and no margin when there's a little bit of actual usage and buyers with some long term vision. the chinese are degenerate gamblers with zero actual use for bitcoin.

Well I know there are a lot of chinese people doing actual use of bitcoin (basically moving their money out of the country to not get it stolen from the ridiculous governmental inflation rates and other confiscation techniques) but yes, let's not get delusional here, tons of chinese people are gambling addicts that would never stop playing around with insane amounts of margin. Now they will look less threatening to the rest of the world. All that chinese volume was giving them a fake aura of superiority. Now we just need to come up with a way to out-compete them in mining.

Red-Apple

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Quote from: European Central Bank on January 25, 2017, 07:31:51 AM

it'll fall further and maybe all or most of the chinese exchanges will close their doors.

i seriously doubt it.
there is still a lot of bitcoins being traded on their website. according to the coinmarketcap okcoin for example has nearly 13 million dollars daily volume and 2x 0.2% of that means $52,000 pure earning daily or 1.5 million dollar earning in a month.
the cost of running an exchange is big because of their powerful servers but it is still tiny compared to the amount earned this way.

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Quote from: European Central Bank on January 25, 2017, 07:31:51 AM

it'll fall further and maybe all or most of the chinese exchanges will close their doors.

I guess it depends on how much they were making from margin lending. Looking at those trade volumes, they won't make the money up with trading fees, so there will likely be some mergers.

European Central Bank

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it'll fall further and maybe all or most of the chinese exchanges will close their doors.

you can have a bitstamp or gemini with fees and no margin when there's a little bit of actual usage and buyers with some long term vision. the chinese are degenerate gamblers with zero actual use for bitcoin.

talkbitcoin

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All I know is that I know nothing.

this is an interesting turn of event from China to see how their ridiculously huge volume drop this much and go down to the level of the daily volume that western exchanges such Bitfinex have!

Topic: OKCoin and Bitfinex have the same volume now! (Read 1938 times)