Topic: On African Poverty and Oil (Read 1725 times)

most of them are already in the dark 
Africa has a long way until they catch up with the modern world..
South Africa and Arab countries are there but for countries in central Africa..

they are hardly going to catch up with us in the next 100-200 years 

It's time to leave OPIC's GHG cap alone, and let them get back to the great work they're doing supporting the entrepreneurs who are out there building the future we want to see. A future where climate and development are solved with 21st century clean energy technologies - not the mindset, policy framework, and 19th century technologies that will leave hundreds of millions of Africans in the dark.

Check you sources again , you don't have a clue how wrong you are.

Strikes me that the US is getting squeezed - it has a way way higher demand for oil, per capita, than any other nation on Earth. And whilst the Seven Sisters have had free reign for at least half a century the increasing development of China and Russia means that the monopoly has been broken.

So the OP's idea is that the US relieves Africa of its natural wealth so as to better sustain the incomparable/"God must be shining his light on us" standard of living of the average US citizen - but somehow it wouldn't be the exploitation of the poorer nations of the Earth because you would be paying them (albeit a pittance) and so helping to save them from themselves and their self inflicted poverty ? It would almost make you proud to be American wouldn't it  

  Some people tell us that we have already passed peak oil production - to my mind that means that the oil market has now become a sellers market. Lets not piss on Africa's shoes and tell them its raining hey ?

   Anyhow - I thought the US was going to be self sufficient in oil by 2020 - so whats the problem ?

No. My comment was general, not related to any particular pipeline.

Are you talking about the Juba-Lamu pipeline? The one which will transport South Sudan's oil to Kenya?

Would you invest in that pipeline's building?

That's the kind of work which requires months of careful planing and a very precise long-lasting organization to make it real. I don't want to be rude, but I don't think Africans can do it. It could work if they let an European or a Chinese company dot the whole thing, but then the money won't fall into African hands. There's also the problem of some kind of a civil war going on in South Sudan.

good

US is having bad relations with Venezuela, which makes it almost impossible to import oil from there.

In September 2013, US imported some 300 million barrels of crude, of which 118 million was from OPEC nations (47 mbl from Saudi Arabia).

Hmm... AFAIK, America (the USA) is not depending on Middle East oil. They have their own oil reserves and just buy Mexican and Venezuelan oil. So it doesn't make much sense to sell African oil to the USA (would be too expensive)...

Fixing those quotes , as I didn't say that.
Don't frame me

Afrikaners should be recognized as one of the indigenous people of Southern Africa. But how can anyone forget that Afrikaners were the dominant force behind the Apartheid government (especially after the 1960s, when Anglos waned in power).

Well , Russia doesn't have a 15% hiv infection rate , nor 1/4 women raped at least once. And also I don't consider the situation for russian people getting worse compared to 198* period. I actually think they are far better know , living myself in Eastern Europe and since I traveled a few times into the former URSS.
Alcoholism was a problem in all eastern countries, and that was since medieval times.
You can't even compare Moldova to the countries in Africa, common.  and it's on place 129 by gdp in the world , hardly the poorest. (China 89)

Let's face it , since South Africa shifted , it's going backways.
Also , lets see the opposite.... a  .... guy running a country with a majority of .... poeple. You know who i'm talking about
And , does Detroit ring a bell? =)))))

Well... I don't want to generalize. The problem is much beyond the skin color. The economic situation in South Africa has worsened exponentially since ANC took over power in 1994. But the same can be said about Russia. What ANC did to South Africa, the same Yeltsin did to Russia. Look at what happened to Russia after 1991. At least South Africa didn't lose 15% of its population to alcoholism and suicides.

One of the poorest nations in the world (Moldova) is almost 99.99% White.

but other african countries were also ruled by white people, am I not mistaken?
at least they were colonies for some time

Yeah , South Africa was ruled by...  people prior to being ruled by .... people.
Insert colors.

does anyone know how come did South Africa succed so much in the opposite of all other African countries?
I understand for Egypt and Saudi Arabia but for this 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/02/gabon-eurobond-idUSL5N0JH2W020131202

The country's resource wealth and small population of about 1.6 million mean it has one of the highest per capita incomes in sub-Saharan Africa, but inequality is high and large numbers of people remain mired in poverty.

Well... Gabon is prosperous... and it's citizens are wealthy. But such cases are quite rare in Africa.


I tend to disagree. Most of the other African nations (perhaps with the exception of DR COngo) doesn't have as much natural resources per capita as the Angolans are having. However, I can agree that corruption and bureaucracy is everywhere.

Big , big difference. Prosperous country  and wealthy citizen.
And that picture you have about Angola it's found in most Africa.

You are forgetting that not all oil-rich African nations are poor. There are also nations such as Gabon and Equatorial Guinea, which are quite prosperous. And the relative poverty in oil-rich Angola is due to the massive corruption and bureaucracy. 

interesting topic and by reading the posts in this thread I get the feeling there is no easy answer to the problems.  I think most people know the corruption on the continent and by other governments etc around the world is a major problem and is clearly linked to the dysfunction.

Yes these countries are rich in oil,but the problems occurring through all Africa prevent it from being used in a good way (or from being used generally). wars (civil and with neighboring countrie),corruption and the lookout for commissions are some of the major causes for africa being left behind though it has allot of natural resources.
also as the above poster said ,no one would invest money in this field in a non-stable country since anything from governments to taxes could change in few days,making it too difficult for foreign companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Jos_riots
It doesn't matter what resources you have on that land if the people out there are killing each other for , what i can stupid reasons.
It creates nothing but instability and no one is crazy enough to invest in something long term in those regions.

Also , about the Chinese:

In March 2013, Xi Jinping visited three African countries – Tanzania, South Africa, and Republic of the Congo – during his first trip abroad as the President of China. In 2012 alone, more than 2,000 Chinese companies have invested a total of US$20 billion. Increasing interaction between African countries and China seem to paint a rosy picture of the relationship, but the recent crackdown by the Ghanaian government on illegal gold miners, which resulted in the arrests of 124 Chinese workers in Ghana, has raised some red flags. As of June 7, five days after the crackdown, negotiations are still continuing in the hopes of resolving the crisis, according to the Embassy of China in Ghana.

This is not the first time Chinese gold miners in Ghana have faced the imminent threat of being detained, beaten, shot, or even killed. In October 2012, a 16-year-old boy was shot to death while fleeing from armed security forces in the gold-rich Ashanti region. During that operation against illegal miners, more than 100 Chinese citizens were arrested. In the last few days, pictures sent from Chinese nationals, either arrested or still hiding out in the woods, are full of gory details and convey a sense of desperation.

- See more at: http://www.tealeafnation.com/2013/06/despite-risks-chinese-miners-go-west-to-ghanas-gold-mines/#sthash.Imz4kQRS.dpuf

It's a war zone there and nothing good will came out of it.
And when the mines are empty......

First i would like to point that ( money, oil, minerals....) never has a God but mutual interests so it's never about religious.
as already stated you know that most of the oil share there is for China (who is a major player in Africa) so why would the USA even gets in the way? after selling all mining fields rights 20-30 years ago.
did you spend more time to look at the type and quality of their oil?workabilty for the usa?
you can always dig a new pipe line but it have to returns its value and plus not just for what you mentioned.

lol, that nigga can't fight


true that, but that's never going to happen because of interests that other nations have (USA)..
and yes, I do blame USA for everything bad in the world

America has loads of oil at the moment and the Canadian tar sands in reserve.
Africa needs to develop properly at it's own pace, not pillaged of it's natural resources again by the west.

+1

Africa it's a continent , and the countries there have a big problem.
You can easily see that most of the borders are straight lines from the colonial era.
In the same country you can have tribes that have been at war for centuries and are still killing each other eight now.
There are tons of conflicts in each country between it's own people based on religion , and origins and many more.

What are we talking about here?

Yet more exploitation of Africa and Africans or the creation of something more win-win?

First obviously Africa is not a country but a continent. This continent, Africa is cursed. It is cursed by its amazing natural resources, from precious woods to oil, diamonds to sapphire, etc. A pipeline would have to cross many countries, undefined tribal regions and other unstable nations. KSA may not be the best place for women's freedom, but as far as business, investing, planing for big projects way ahead in the future the kingdom is a much safer and stable bet. Instability is very expensive.
This is how investors think of Africa http://youtu.be/zBZIY0WnxCM

that's anecdotal evidence.. wikipedia and most other places cite 75%ish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States

"the ones who believe aren't really religious" ... well, they're still christians.

you're claiming americans are mostly Christian?
I don't think so,almost every american I  have ever seen is a atheist
I mean anything I hear against God comes from Americans xD

the ones who do believe aren't really religious..

The odd thing is that the US is really going for fracking and using it up as fast as possible.  The EU and Chinese are sitting on their fracking assets.  Who knows what is the correct decision. 

yeah it seems as though the chinese are heavily invested in africa. i guess in the long game they're looking to have more resources than the U.S. when it runs out in china or everywhere else.

The US is an energy exporter.  It has no need to import African oil.

The South Sudan already has a pipeline.  Its through a Chinese facility in North Sudan.  Not ideal but the Chinese do need the oil and the South Sudan does need the money.  A deal will be done.

The bigger answer to your question is time.  There are huge oil reserves all over the place.  If solar or some other renewable actually works, then the oil reserves will stay in the ground forever.  If not, they will be extracted in order of cost.  Right now, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran are the cheap locations.  Russia is not far behind.  When they are drained dry, you can expect the more expensive fields in places like Africa to get attention.

One thing that may not occur to you is much of Africa has as many Islamic converts as it does Christians...prime example is Nigeria where currently there is civil on with the Islamic group there trying to convert the entire country to Muslim state.

I would also like to add that Sudan that you mentioned above is a country with very strong Muslim influences so keep that in mind with your idea.

I never said anything about this being a simple task. I said:


I mentioned possible people to pay for it (Govts, oil companies, the private sector, other potential players.) If "they" agree then we're good. The better question is how to get them to listen to us.


Because America's dependence on Middle Eastern oil causes all kinds of geopolitical and socioeconomic problems. Plus, they don't need the money like these poorer countries do. Plus, most Americans are Christians and would prefer to support impoverished Christian nations rather than rich war mongering Muslim nations, or at least diversify our suppliers to prevent this monopolistic madness.


So ya. That should answer those points.

it's not that simple, who would pay for those pipelines?
and why would someone get their oil if they could get cheaper oil for which they don't have to pay to be manufactured
for example from KSA
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for those who don't know..

There's a ton of oil in Africa and yet they are very poor. Why don't we tap into that oil by setting up a pipeline and selling it in America?

https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!q=south+sudan&data=!1m4!1m3!1d27233098!2d28.2447279!3d4.6304778!4m15!2m14!1m13!1s0x171930b53d3e3119%3A0xdbf043637eb6bc97!3m8!1m3!1d27271428!2d34.3960461!3d-3.49609!3m2!1i1366!2i642!4f13.1!4m2!3d7.9630921!4d30.1589303

Check the above map out. South Sudan has a ton of oil but is poor and landlocked therefore cannot pay to ship it out. Pipelines to Kenya would be short and enrich both countries. Pipline to Angola would provide a closer to America solution. All of these countries are largely Christian so there is a sociopolitical harmony that could work and we would not need to fear Muslims breaking stuff.

I have no idea how to go about designing and pitching a pipline to the govt and the oil companies but this is a huge money opportunity and a huge moral and developmental opportunity. Can we get this done as a pure private sector thing? What would this cost and who are the potential players?