Topic: On Bitcoin and old-timers (Read 610 times)

We can hope for that, though I don't quite like the way you put it. If we are to rephrase your thought and draw a few disturbing conclusions from it, it would sound like we should get rid of older generations (maybe, even help them die faster) to accelerate Bitcoin adoption. And while busy at this task, why not also get rid of those who are slow at understanding or not capable of using Bitcoin at all?

But maybe that's not the right way to do it, after all

I completely get the point of you doesn't need to have a certificate in order to do such thing like the driver's license. The idea is just you have to understand how to use it because obviously there is no point for someone to understand it's "Complexity" unless you wanted to create your own cryptocurrency.

Knowing how to use it (is just like knowing how to drive a car. Even if you don't have a license) While understanding in dept and being more technical is like (understanding how the car works).

Lastly, you understanding how the bitcoin market works is also just like understanding the traffic rules when you drive a car.

To make things short. If you just want to experience using bitcoin and how it can benefits you the only thing you will consider is understanding how you use it. But if you want to invest on it and make some profits then you are required to understand how the market works. Lastly, when you wanted to be more technical then study how it was built.

I think it is a generational thing, remember people who were born in 70's can use computers very well and have no problem adopting to the change in technology, which means there are only people from 60's who are having a bit of problem and even not all of them have issues with it, just a bigger portion compared to other generations, when all others die eventually we will be left with people who can understand computers and mobile phones easily.

It means with time bitcoin will be like that too, it will be general knowledge and everyone will know about it and everyone will be capable of using it, adoption is important to allow all people from 1990 and later born to use but all the other previous generations will slowly die and that would make the adoption go up as well anyway.

When money talks, bullshit walks

People are not interested in cashless payments because there is nothing in it for them, although this is not quite true. Many banks are offering nice cashbacks if people are paying with their cards. That's one of the reasons Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies have become so popular as they allow an easy and free access to trading places for all (whether people can actually earn something there is another question)

On the other hand, it is not so much lack of interest itself as psychological inertia, i.e. "the reluctance of doing something in a different way as you have an indisposition to change" (as per Wikipedia). In simple terms, people don't like change and don't like to change. But once forced to some activity, they may find it quite interesting and appealing afterwards

The old-timer especially for those who have long known about investment and trading will choose an investment place or trading place based on the investment place itself. They will consider the place investment is really deserve to store their money either for long term and short term investment or the place will not last long and included as a bubble investment place.

I guess there are many old-timer who likes to choose to store their money for long term investment, which is mean they will consider first how its place investment will be used by new people and can be accepted easily by them. So, it is enough to see when he should buy and when he should sell their assets because these strategies is really easy to understand. So, to know bitcoin first is really needed for them and that's our job to give an education about it.

Do you really think that it is the inability to adapt that is the issue or lack of interest? For you to be able to use something, I think you must first have interest in it and I think we have too many people that lack interest in digital payment naturally, except maybe they impose it on them, I could remember in my country when the Central bank saw that printing of money was becoming too expensive for them, and they feel that they need to reduce the way paper currencies flows in the country by encouraging cashless policy.

Many financial institutions did everything possible to get people on cashless policy until they got tired because they kept meeting less interest of people, and those who picked interest found it easy to adapt to the system. To me, there is nothing too difficult to adapt to in the system of crypto, it is just lack of interest that I see.

Bitcoin may not be for everyone

But for entirely different reasons. As far as its user-friendliness is concerned (otherwise known as user experience), Bitcoin is already quite on par with other financial and payment tools (at least, as long as you don't try to get under the hood, which mostly refers to vanilla wallets anyway). It is not for everyone because it is simply not a payment tool and not because it lacks such capacity but because no one uses it for payments (well, some definitely do, of course, but not en masse). Bitcoin is an investment instrument and speculative vehicle but not everyone wants to get involved in this field as it is just too risky (read, many have burned their fingers already)

In addition to that,most of the old-timers are not inclined to new technologies since they are only using books before for their education.Very different from millenials today who are more focused on new technologies so no wonder,they come to understand bitcoin easily.But i still believe that bitcoin is not for everyone,it's only for those people who has high patience to keep on learning day by day because that would eventually develop their own skills in bitcoin and make them profitable in the latter part.

Talking about old timers, one major issue or problem they are having with digital payment is inability to adapt. Although, the adaptability is not excluded from education and illiteracy. In other words, most of them are not educated formally.

So, is not to say that they don't like modern living.

I think it is on contrary becoming more and more user friendly considering we are moving to a digital world.

People do not realize this but the people who are on their 30's and younger are mo inclined to use their mobile apps to pay for stuff then people older, which means technology is actually a big part of our lives in this generation and younger and we are fine with us having an app that we would read the QR code of the shop we are buying stuff to pay for the things we bought and that is not a highly tech thing we can't manage to work, its actually easier than having a debit card that you give and then punch in your pin code and then wait for a paper to come out etc.

Of course someone in his 60's and older will not even understand that, hell people above 80 have hard time using debit cards so of course they won't find bitcoin user friendly but in 20-30 years it will be the norm for sure.

Learning the full programming or detail about bitcoin is not what will help you make money through it, it is only when you understand how to really apply its usage and then trade it, when it comes to its full programming and some technological know how about it, I think you are more like going deep into the blockchain technology already, because bitcoin is a product of the blockchain technology and if you are to understand the technology of blockchain, you must have been looking at developing your own cryptocurrency or looking at having a project that is going to be laid on blockchain, and that is why people higher blockchain developers. But to make money through it is exchange, I think that you only need how to trade it in the exchange market.

Correct.

I actually forced myself to understand everything behind bitcoin and all those programming that is used to it.
But nothing happened. I guess you really need some deep lessons to learn it.
But as bitcoin now. It is easy to understand.
For me, it is a currency/commodity and I bet anyone in the right age could understand that quickly.
Currency which is used daily and commodity as gold for a better example.

With that, it is easy to think on what should be done. Those who are into investing will just have the heads up.

I don’t think there is anything that in-depth about bitcoin, there is nothing that needs to be known about bitcoin other than those simple things that you mentioned there, the only thing that is just missing is the history of bitcoin which I think many people would definitely want to have a hint of too before accepting the system.

Blockchain technology is what is actually required to have in-depth knowledge of, and that is when anyone interested is going deep into knowing how to use it and then apply it to his own company project . Bitcoin has already been simplified by the inventor satoshi to the extent of it being understood even by a secondary school child, so anyone would understand its technology easily when being introduced to.

But that's the thing with the older generation

They want all the credit for what the younger generation is currently using (pretty much like "new timers merely find ways to innovate on tech"). But how much these old-timers actually did and how much the new-timers don't? Such story is truly lost in centuries as all generations contribute more or less equally to the progress, while each one pretending to be the most helpful and valuable since the beginning of times, ever. In reality, though, there's no one particular generation that did all the dirty job for the entire history of humankind


They were standing on the shoulders of giants

Glad to hear, it's weird to see my old posts too, from two years ago. Probably even weirder if I could even find my original account from 2015, I'd demerit most of the posts from THAT one.

And yeah, probably the same story about old timers, but it's that longing for better times (perceived, never mind if actually true) that motivates them to bring something better, something new. Or is it? What Bitcoin promised -- and maybe to some extent, is delivering -- wasn't really ever something we had before. So, hey, got to credit the old timers for solving one of the oldest problems of trust!

Guys, I think there is no need to argue on this topic, because the prospects for cryptocurrency and bitcoin in the future can not be compared with which of the people can use all this.  If we are talking about the elderly, then there should not be any debate, because today not all older people can even use a computer or even a smartphone.  In certain countries, getting a pension using a bank card is a problem for many.  I am not talking about the old people who live in the United States of America, since this country has long gone ahead in its development and there the elderly are much more advanced than those who live in the countries of Asia.

I agree with you, people don't really need to have an indepth knowledge about Bitcoin.  All we have have to know is the basic of Bitcoin, its uses, how to create a wallet, transfer funds and securing our holdings.  Aside from that, there are lots of 3rd party application and company that enable us to use Bitcoin easily.  This way, even an old timer can easily transact (buy and sell/ convert ) Bitcoin and even use it to pay for services and goods.

I don't think it is so much about newbies versus old-timers (old-timers as in early adopters)

I'd rather say it is more about price then (i.e. almost 10 years ago) like a few cents per bitcoin (or whatever) and now, more like many thousands of dollars per exactly same bitcoin. When something is literally not worth a dime, you wouldn't expect people to care a lot about it. On the other hand, you wouldn't really expect anyone to as literally bury something worth as much as Bitcoin is today, either. It is the price which is the great divider here, not patience or its lack between different generations of Bitcoin adopters (old-timers vs newbies)


Well, that's an interesting turn, but you can be damn sure I'm that person (with two extra years, naturally)


Isn't it the same story as the grass greener, the sky bluer, and the climate better back in the day?

Deisik, you seem to be a slightly different person from the poster I recall in 2017 but maybe we all sound different after passing through each period of Bitcoin's (hopefully) neverending cycle...

I always think there's a huge underestimation when we talk about old timers and tech. Old timers were the ones who created the tech we take for granted. New timers merely find ways to innovate on tech.

Bitcoin almost certainly was created by old timers while new timers were busy using facebook money and finding new ways to use paypal.

Just me thoughts is all.

With this post I remember only one guy who also started a thread here then just vanished.

He bought 2 bitcoins and put all the details in a memory card. Left it somewhere in their garden buried under soils.
I forgot the year but it was never thousands of dollars which is equivalent to 1 bitcoin.
I am now intrigued how is he now. Did he withdrew already or still just doing his everyday life without knowing he had 20k USD already.

Those are examples of guys who dont give a shit. But, he did have faith with bitcoin.
It is like he knew it will valued someday and still risked money for it.
That is for old timers by now.

Newbies tend to go greedy. They cannot wait. They want money back and profit in just a couple of minutes.

The oldies of our generation are not that used to handheld technologies that is why usually they let their grandsons or daughters to do the typing, the finding amd them doing the talking.

I want people to use Bitcoin more, to know more about cryptocurrencies, that it is not just an escape route scammers used. But as I said, in my province, not all of the people are used to these kind of technologies. In fact my parents are so proud of me when I can just factory reset their phones which they forget their password or pin. Another thing is that we are not fond of investments, the popular investment we have in our province is Parents supporting their children to go to school.

For what it's worth it is true and I strongly agree we don't need to know too much on how things work in Bitcoin or crypto.
We just need to know how to use it and how to protect our funds to be honest when I started earning in cryptoI didn't have much knowledge about it, All I know is it is a money created in the internet and it could be used to earn Fiat.

Well in our case, my father is nearing his 60 years of age and he is fond of me making an investment in crypto currencies. He even told me one time that if possible he can learn from me and invest on his own. I told him that even myself lacks deep knowledge about this kind of investments, but the important thing is I earn from and that's all that matters, knowledge about it is a bonus for me and he totally agrees with me. He is now nearing his retirement and one of his plans is put some of his money to Bitcoin, because that is all he knows for now.

You are probably pertaining to older people when you said old-timers and not old-timers in bitcoin. The oldies are quite conservative. They always think how hard they earned their money so I think this is one of the reasons why they are always reluctant to put their hands in crypto while the millennials are more easy go lucky. They are more risk takers. The oldies listen to rumors they hear and most of them are close-minded too and also the computer issue as it been mentioned above already.

Not user-friendly compared to what exactly?

If you mean things like payment cards (credit or otherwise), that's mostly true, at least as far as using them is concerned. But you still have to top up these cards somehow at the end of the day, and this is where the tables get massively turned. All things considered, I don't actually think that cryptocurrencies are somehow less user-friendly overall (unless we are talking about full-fledged vanilla wallets, of course)

Regarding the security side of things, I mostly agree. However, if you stick with a cash option, you can get robbed. With a bank card, your identity can be stolen. So even in this department the difference is not that great at all


This is the thing with advanced age as such. Old farts typically don't want to learn something new, that's true indeed. On the other hand, even mid-aged people don't want to learn anything beyond their scope of interest

Personally, I believe that no one should feel the need to know the intricacies of bitcoin up to the tiniest technical detail because that's not how you make use of money, and bitcoin is also considered money so why do people need to do that? Old-timers generally are having a hard time catching up to these new tech that we're having right now though I believe that some of them are not really trying to get out of what they're used to. I have my grandma still using an old passbook-type account and deposit cash manually because that's what she's used to, and we must agree that we must not force people, especially old people to adapt because we know that it's not a fast process to begin with, and the rest of tech springing out in the open came from the young minds as well. Now I'm not saying that we should exclude the old-timers when it comes to bitcoin, but I'm saying that we must not force them as time will come where the system will be overhauled and they'd definitely catch up.

Most old people really are just not that interested with bitcoin so yeah, they could learn it but they choose not to.

Well, that's an interesting question

And an open-ended one at that, the one which elicits different answers not necessarily consistent with each other. With Bitcoin specifically, it is actually more like just buying it without going too deep into intricate details of how things work with it (from a technical viewpoint, blockchain or otherwise). In other words, it all turns around buying low and selling high, end of story (okay, you can choose to hold as an extra option). In this way, Bitcoin feels pretty much like gold. Do you care too much about how gold is extracted as long as the bars in your vault are authentic?


As they say, necessity is the mother of invention. People are just lazy overall, but if forced or otherwise motivated by external factors and circumstances, they can show miracles of comprehension, marvels of intelligence, and wonders of mental agility (yeah)

People often say that because they only see the technology of bitcoin as a profit making technology, if people really understand the main purpose of bitcoin, they will understand that it is virtually for everyone, because anyone can make use of bitcoin to make payment at any time, whether rich or poor, in fact satoshi created bitcoin for the masses and not for the rich alone, because rich people have the money to make payment even if government slams very high charges on them.

The reason why people do think it is not for masses is because they feel it is expensive to purchase for trading and even when they are able to purchase, the rich big whales will still push them into panic selling the little one that is with them, but we just need to understand that the main use of cryptocurrency is for payment and not trade alone.

I remember my first days here without any understanding of the technical side. I just knew how to install the client and to send funds to an exchange and receive them back in my client.

Technically speaking, that's more than enough for most of the average users, but you quickly find out that the security side is incredibly important because of how you can literally lose all your funds either due to a mistake or hack.

I'm really thankful for businesses to have developed hardware wallets which makes it so much easier and less risky for the average users to deal with crypto. Without these hardware wallets things wouldn't be the same.

Crypto in general by far isn't user friendly or secure enough for the average user-- hardware wallets close that gap where possible and it resulted in way fewer cases of theft and coin loss.

I was thinking that post will be about bitcoin old timers like those who where the first here...
But you are talking about older people in general i guess.. i know that a lot of people from US did in fact invest in BTC but most of them where young people who were excited about tech.

I think most speculators have a good understanding of Bitcoin's operating process over the years. But in the field of investment, understanding does not mean that you will act according to knowledge.
I have seen many people say that when Bitcoin's price is about $ 4k, they will put all their money to buy Bitcoin.
But after Bitcoin's price falls to $ 3k3, all of them are silent and do nothing! that is special in the area of investment, not everyone can do what they have said.

If someone wants to invest in Bitcoin, I guess it is imperative that he or she should have the most basic knowledge at least as to what he or she is investing. This is a very basic rule in investment. You do not just invest blindly, or simply because it seems a strong fad these days. You have to at least get to know the fundamentals behind the technology which you are investing into. One cannot simply say I will buy Bitcoin because I heard it is going to hit $50,000 soon.

Questions like what is Bitcoin, how come it has value, what backing does it have to ensure that it will not just suddenly turn into zero, and the like should have been answered first. In other words, investment into something should not be only all about the high and low of price movements. 

I travel a lot for work and we recently had a project in Kenya where I was amazed at how people were using a payment system called M-Pesa on their mobile phones. Now, I saw people as young as 10 years old and old people of 70 years that used those old phones to pay for items in the markets.

Necessity force people to adapt and this is clear when you see people trying to adapt to new technologies, just to survive. If you ask the large majority of those people to explain to you how the centralized technology behind M-Pesa works, then they will not be able to tell you, because they simply use the technology and it works. 

That's what most people don't get either

Fiat money and financial system based on fiat money are infinitely more difficult than Bitcoin in almost every aspect of them. Even on this very forum there are heated debates springing up now and then about how fiat money is actually created and by whom exactly

Some say it is via Central Bank printing money as it sees appropriate at its sole discretion, some claim new money is injected via credit by regular commercial banks. Apart from that, there is no agreement if this new money gets printed out of thin air or it is in fact a collateralized form of money and has some backup

The technical, gory details of actual money circulation in the fiat world are not even slightly touched on here because you can hardly find just two people across the board more or less familiar with the whole process and then make them discuss the matter. I did in fact try exactly that once (and failed)

I'm also guilty of this. I only have a vague understanding of how it operates. I just tell myself it's like using a smartphone. I don't know the workings of the hardware nor the coding of the OS but I can use it just fine.

I know enough to know that the price usually recover and that I can make money by buying dips and holding to wait for a rally. I believe many people think the same.

Does that mean we only rely on luck? I think investing in bitcoin we also need to understand how it works, at least we understand blockchain, because when we understand blockchain, we can find other bitcoins (altcoin), which of course can also generate profits

Could I explain the proper workings of BTC? Hell no. I'm clueless beyond the surface. Same goes for 95 or more per cent of people who've so far touched it.

It's nothing to do with understanding the workings. All you need to do is be willing to conceive of the principles which are way, way simpler than the existing financial system.

Anyone who spends an hour or two of proper reading would have to be a bit weird not to see at least a glimmer of merit in there somewhere. It's getting over that hump that's beyond most.

Even if someone did come back to me demonstrating some understanding I fully understand why they wouldn't want to put money in at this stage. Us lot are too far gone to be objective about it and there are still plenty of cultish elements that will turn people off.

Most people don't know anything about stock investment either, but they have 401(k)s invested in the stock market. People don't need to understand Bitcoin to understand that other people want it.

As for older folks, there are already plenty who are interested in Bitcoin/crypto as an investment, and some who understand the tech as well. It's just a smaller proportion of the total group when compared to millennials, who have been shown time and time again to be the most aware of and interested in crypto. It's like smartphone adoption. Every young person I see has one in their hand. Not so with older folks, although there are definitely some.

These are far and few in between

They are just sticking out as outliers, that's why they create such an impression. But that's not my point. In today's world investing and being able to invest profitably is a sort of must-have. It doesn't require so much technical knowledge (e.g. knowing Bitcoin's technical aspects) as understanding the market in which it exists. Bitcoin for them will be an investment asset but that's not a bad thing as it keeps Bitcoin popular


These are outliers obviously

The car analogy is not bad, but it also shows the problems for Bitcoin users with little technical and economical knowledge. (As The Pharmacist wrote, the problem isn't limited to "old timers" but affects all people which lack technical education and/or understanding.)

When I drive a car, I must know what the risks are. If I drive too fast, or drunk, then the risk of an accident becomes much higher. Most people have basic knowledge about the mechanics of driving. But in the case of Bitcoin, it's a little bit more difficult to understand. Some of the risks are:

- trusting an entity that isn't trustworthy (e.g. a scam exchange)
- losing private keys
- getting private keys hacked or stolen by malware
- buying and selling in the wrong moment and losing money

... and so on. It isn't that easy to fully understand these risks and take appropiate action if you have no knowledge about the technical and economical foundations of Bitcoin.

For example, what advice would you give "old timers" to store their Bitcoins? If they chose a PC or phone and thus a solution where they're responsible for their private keys, then they may become exposed to risks like losing the key accidentally or because of a malware infection, so for that they would need to know how to keep their devices in a secure state. If they're chosing third party providers/exchanges/wallets, they could be scammed by them, even if it's the biggest player in the field (like Mt Gox was).

One of the few methods which provides appropiate security for these people are dedicated hardware wallets, but most of them are relatively expensive (not really a product "for the masses").  Paperwallets are a good cheap solution for Bitcoin freaks, but they are not too easy to handle, and also can get stolen (if they're stored in an accessible place) or lost (if they're hidden too well).

And if they do something wrong, there is no State which will protect them, in contrast to a bank account or credit card (Maybe some form of insurance could be a solution?).

So I think most of the time a little bit of knowledge is still needed. I would only recommend Bitcoin to people which are able to maintain their devices malware-free or are willing to spend the money to buy a hardware wallet.

I believe it predominantly depends on how any given individual chooses to live his life in his / her older years.

If someone appreciates that it's now more likely to live a stronger, healthier, more active life thanks to better technology and understanding of wellness principles, then he can elect to remain energetic and interested in financial / technological actions throughout his life,
and crypto currencies will be relevant for him (and his family) even if he is 100+.

Perhaps in some years, they will use a blockchain without knowing it (because their bank uses it, or insurance, medical app, telecom, smart city, etc). When I talk to people about Bitcoin I get different speeches depending on how old they're. (no matter their lifestyle, economic situation,...)

30-45 years old:
They're only interested to invest in and hear about Bitcoin only for its speculative side. They don't know anything about BTC, not even know what is a BTC client

45-60 years old:
They're not interested to use it (nor to invest)... since it can only be used online (and not a lot of merchands accept it) They see no economic benefit.

+ 60 years old: Crazy buy I usually get a "wow! no bank! full control!" reaction. The problem is the internet barrier, not a lot all people from this generation know how to use a laptop, or they just know how to use a browser, email client,... On a side note, I remember a senior who told me Bitcoin is born 50 years too late

Agree with this 100%.  In fact, it's funny you should give the analogy of not having to understand the inner workings of an automobile in order to drive one--I just explained bitcoin to someone a couple of weeks ago using the same analogy.  That's always been in my mind because I can relate to it personally.  I'm not a mechanic and couldn't fix a car to save my life, but I can certainly drive.  And it's the same thing with bitcoin.  I wish I had the intellectual oomph to learn more about it, but I understand enough and can use it just fine.

I'm pretty sure people are way more familiar with how the market acts than they are with how bitcoin works.  Maybe on a college campus that might be different, but out in the real world I've no doubt that there are more people actually using it than actually understanding the math behind it.

Not sure about "old-timers" though.  There are plenty of older folks with advanced degrees in mathematics and computer science who either do understand bitcoin or who could if they were interested in it.  I do think more of the younger generation will end up pushing crypto forward, though.  That's probably true of any new technology.

The issue with old timers as you call them is it's like them with the Internet in general. I've had elderly relatives ask me to repeatedly return their tvs because they keep deleting channels for example.

Really, bitcoin isn't for those who are easy to scam, but a way to stop being easy to scam is to educate yourself a bit more (and not in bitcoin but in general)...

I came to bitcoin from a purely achidemic point, I wanted to know how it ticked but the first couple of transactions I remember making was just having fun back in the start of 2015... I had no care for what it'd one day be worth and was rather happy just fiddling with it (as most should do when they make an investment here, set aside 0.001 or something just to flip on stuff and test the system).

---

There are 3 main types of investors

1. Savers - the bank is where I keep my money, it earns me enough a year without really doing anything.
2. Dividend investors - while I like the idea that my entire portfolio increases in value, I always like that I can earn it back at the same time over the course of 20-30 years.
3. The storage investor - I get no dividends from my investment, but I'm happy to speculate on it (these are the people who are in bitcoin, precious metals...) They don't care to see that they don't get dividend because these assets don't do too badly on their own...

It is often said and then repeated that Bitcoin is not for the masses and definitely not for old-timers as it is too difficult to understand:


But how many of us actually understand how Bitcoin works internally, even partially?

I don't think that many. The truth is, it is not required to be a certified mechanical engineer (or whatever) to drive a car. In some cases you don't even need a driving license. For example, the British queen drives without one and she is an old-timer without reservations. Long story short, you don't need to understand the technology behind Bitcoin to invest in it, though you definitely should understand how the market works. But once you get the hang of it, you are no longer tied to, or constrained by, Bitcoin specifically (and its technology). In other words, everyone should be able to buy low and sell high (okay, invest profitably) these days, and there should be no exception for old-timers, and still less for those to become them one day (read, us)