Topic: On Cuba and economy (Read 674 times)

This is your gross delusion. Maximum 5% do not like him. The rest of the carriers of rashism (a modern form of fascism, but more vile, cowardly and deceitful, based on state terrorism). They praise Putin and Russia, and without tormenting moral standards, they go to other countries for money to kill the local population. 95% consider the whole world to be enemies. Officially, less than 85% of the population votes for Putin every time. And those who do not like Putin, for the most part, are the same bearers of rashism, and they want their Putin. You idealize this monster called the Rashist Federation

Anything that is so overly simplified is bound to be inaccurate.  Boiling down Florida to a simple case of sanctions is pure folly.  There are 21 million people in Florida, and the vast majority of them don't give a damn about sanctions on Cuba, and I'd guess they don't know anything about it either.

These are all fairy tales and fantasies of Russians and their media. Tales from the region "the Russian army is the most powerful and we will reach Kiev in 3 days, and to Lvov in 5 days, after which Ukraine will cease to exist."
It ended with the fact that these "heroic Russian warriors" now who fertilize the land in eastern Ukraine with their bodies, and who may have reached Kiev ... but only with groundwater
As it turned out, all the "power" of the Russian army is an attack on the GUARANTEED WEAKER, the use of local separatists as a consumable, and this all works until Russia receives a noticeable response. You will laugh, but such an answer was given to the Russian terrorist troops and separatists by voluntary combat units made up of ordinary citizens of Ukraine. And unexpectedly, the vaunted Russian paratroopers went home in hundreds of coffins ... At the Donetsk airport, ordinary Ukrainian servicemen defeated Kadyrov's units (the Chechen ruler, the murderer of Russians who fought against the Russian troops, the hero of Russia - yes, yes, that's right ), which on the territory of russia they do whatever they want, and specialists from "Vympel" (elite special units in the RF), and the regular troops of the rf. After that, more than 50% of the territories occupied by Russian terrorist troops were liberated by Ukrainian volunteer units and restored army units. After that, the Russians had to change tactics - they began to hide their soldiers behind the backs of local separatists (this is a consumable for them, worthless).
The Russians began to engage in acts of terrorism, sabotage, but not direct military clashes. it turned out that they began to receive very high losses of this "vaunted", "invincible" Russian army.
By the way, you can check - if you look at the last 20 years - all the "heroic victories of the Russian Federation" are essentially terrorism or an attack on peaceful or incommensurably weaker neighbors under an invented pretext or deliberate provocation. Although lately, Russia has begun to get "in the teeth" there too.

PS I highly recommend not to read the Russian press (including their Western editions), otherwise you will have a strong distortion of reality, believe me!

I understand you mean communism, rather than socialism. Another thing is that after the end of the cold war, due to the realization that communism is a disaster, some communists preferred to call themselves socialists to disguise. For example, nowadays in Venezuela the United Socialist Party of Venezuela of Maduro is the party that rules, and they call themselves that even though they are communists.

But there has been moderate socialism that has worked very well, in Europe social democracies have lived many decades of prosperity and well-being.

Has socialism worked for an extended period, anywhere in the world? It has failed, without any exception. The problem is that eventually they will run out of rich people to loot, and then they start looting the ordinary people. How is it even possible that Venezuela remains as one of the poorest nations in the world, with such huge petroleum reserves? And in case of Cuba, they have one of the best literacy rates and university systems in the Latin American region. And despite all that they are in such a horrible state.

Contagions ... people in Cuba can live hungry but not sick, it is hard to say, but it is a country used to living in precariousness.

The Vaccine thing should not be so strange they have a school of the Soviet Union, today Russia who also developed its own vaccine.

Regarding the economic and social issue, please only have to know a Cuban in exile or having visited the island, do not use official statistics "they are lies" It is stupid bureaucracy that governments rely on to make up the true statistics.

These references are so gray. They do not work. 1 VES = that amount is wrong, referring to these countries not only Cuba, Venezuela, if not any other that is under a dubious regime are never reliable, they only serve to make people trust it and disclose information that is not faithful to reality.

Cuba needs a big reformation, they've been through two dictatorship and has always been under communism and given that Cuba is still known for striking fear on Uncle Sam during the Cold War, I think that we can ultimately decide that communism doesn't work. People has to experience freedom now and I think that the current regime is already collapsing.

If all the Russians were supporting Putin, then the entire Donbass would have been under the control of the rebels by now. It is important to differentiate the evil regime of Putin from the ordinary Russian people. Others have also suffered, but in 99% of the cases the Russian citizens have been the primary victims of the Putin regime. And therefore I don't believe that it is right to blame the Russians without any distinction. At this point, it should not be forgotten that large sections of the Russian population opposes the Putin regime. Many have paid with their lives. Even Alexei Navalny escaped death by a whisker.

I mean of course that the protests are against the government, because even if the embargo was made by the the united states there is zero effort from the Cuban government to lift it  which has been going on for decades now, and if this is a forced thing than bitcoin can be a really valuable resources for them to lift up their economy just by adopting it as a currency, i mean just look at el Salvador they have nothing to offer and they are a  small country yet them adopting bitcoin as a national currency it seemed like a big thing. 

I believe that in Cuba there are two types of economies, the government that is an economy accessible to all goods and services, and any opportunity, while there is an internal economy that live the Cubans, who struggle to obtain a normal benefit of freedom . This includes the property of the Internet, the opportunity to leave the country without being persecuted, of obtaining technology without the government's regime prohibits it, and above all, some people do not know or from meat, in Cuba, in Cuba, in Cuba, What the richest eat is the pig. And fortunately, since the priority is its tourists.

Cuba is a country that is dominated by the communists that they have always taken advantage of the need of their people, in addition to having allied countries that share their same ideology that Venezuela, which at this point, believe that the Cuban economy is superior to Venezuelan.

That is why countries like Cuba and Venezuela would work day and night to obtain BTC, and, of course, with the risk of being detected by the government, if so, their punishment in Cuba would be prison, in Venezuela what is punished It is that it does not register the mining activity before the SUNACARIP Government Agency, even fall into jail for not declaring it.

No offense - but your words just confirm that you do not understand the mentality of this people, Russians. I'll tell you this - it's not Putin who is shooting at us, citizens of Russia are shooting at us! They were constantly taken prisoner from us, and when they snot and cry and asked them not to "punish", and many of these citizens of Russia told why they came to to us, to our land - "but we have no work in the city, but here they pay money" !!!! Do you understand what scum and bastards are? Due to the fact that he cannot earn money to support his family - he travels for money, to kill neighbors, to rob our country, to destroy everything that was created by us!

^^^^ the so called "Russian" aggression is essentially an aggression by Putin. I don't think that ordinary Russian people have any enmity with the Ukrainians. In order to consolidate his power, Putin has ignited the issue of Russian speakers in the former-USSR nations. It is not just limited to Ukraine, but with the Baltic nations, Moldova (Transdniester) and Kazakhstan as well. The conflict in Donbass is essentially a fight between two groups of ethnic Ukrainians (one supported by the EU and the other supported by Putin).

That said, there is a strong chance that in the future Russia will be added to the European Union (sometime after Putin is removed from power). EU needs to expand to sustain itself, and the best option is to grow towards the east (Russia/Ukraine), rather than in a southward direction (Turkey/Morocco).

The example from the USSR is very correct. The USSR itself gave birth to Cuba as it is now, and it was 40 years ago. But regarding the USSR, it is necessary to give more complete information. There were 15 republics that actually went their separate ways. For example Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia - they immediately chose the European vector. The southern republics, for the most part, almost all returned to almost feudal schemes. The rest have been trying for many years to create different alliances, opposing themselves, out of habit, to the world. As a result, the Customs Union and others ceased to exist ... For example, Belarus tried to preserve the ideas of the USSR, while realizing that in order to generate income, it was necessary to interact with the EU. Ukraine has long tossed between new alliances with the Russian Federation, Balarus, .. but after certain events, it nevertheless chose the European vector of development and rejection of the ideology of the USSR. Azerbaijan has also adopted a program of global changes, closely interacts with its sister Turkey, they also plan to move towards the European model ... After the coming to power of a new, pro-European government and the President, I really hope to make a powerful leap now and become perhaps the best example of how to say goodbye with a slave ideology and become really free and self-sufficient. Now in Moldova will begin a strong clean-up and breakdown of corruption metastases, which, unfortunately, have very deeply penetrated all the authorities and even the mentality of people throughout the post-USSR. We now have 2 really huge problems in Ukraine, these are: corruption and Russia's terrorist aggression against us. Without the fight against corruption, it is not possible for the state to develop qualitatively, and create comfortable conditions for business, people, provide social protection and a high standard of living!

I guess hardly anyone else in this thread has visited Cuba, so I would give a higher weightage to your opinion. But it is sad. After so many decades of poverty and lack of opportunities, the ordinary people in Cuba want to maintain the status quo. But I can understand the apprehensions. Look at the former USSR. The regime that came after the fall of the Soviet Union was even more horrible (Boris Yeltsin in Russia, Nursultan Nazarbayev of Kazakhstan, Leonid Kravchuk in Ukraine and Mircea Snegur in Moldova).

If a person does not have such values in his head as freedom, legality, respect, desire to work, develop, change and change the world around him, he will not do anything. He will live with primitive needs, and he will be manipulated by new "kings"

However, the dictator, a leader will still be able to be overthrown by the sovereignty of the people's hearts who feel the same as slaves.  There are many stories about such a leader, but when the people move, the term of office will not be long.  They just need a revolution to start by not using fiat then the government will be confused about taking economic policies, BTC can be an alternative for people to feel financially free without being limited by many regulations.

I rested there 2 times - in 2010 and 2012. Believe me - this is recent, and now I am reading about what is happening, and I am sure that nothing has changed there. I will explain and argue. No matter how much we would like to expect changes in the Cubans, there are NO! They went out not to change the country, approaches, laws - they, no offense, as prisoners began to protest against even more bestial content, but not for freedom and justice!
Protest moods arose for 2 reasons: mortality from Covid increased significantly, and Cuban medicine (vaunted by the way, such as mega-effective, although everyone is trying to go to the USA, EU, Israel, ... for treatment anyway, ...) turned out to be powerless. Second, an additional drop in living standards has been added and, in fact, life is on the verge of starvation.
In total, this is a simple "animal" revolt, but not a desire for systemic changes.
Yes, it all sounds very offensive, but the truth can be like that ...

That may have been the case two decades ago, but the situation has changed drastically. Recently there were widespread protests in Cuba against the communist regime. That means that the people are no longer happy with the status quo. Spread of social media and internet has meant that ordinary Cubans are in touch with diaspora settled in other countries, and they know how life is in these countries. We already saw the common people rising up against the regime in Venezuela. Now the same is repeating in Cuba as well.

In fact, it all depends on the people!

I talked with Cubans, and I came to an amazing conclusion - the Island of FREEDOM, and the population does not understand the essence of the word "FREEDOM" !!! For freedom, they essentially consider a half-slave existence, and the second idea is "the main thing is that the Americans should do evil" !!!

Any changes in this country can occur only in 2 cases:
1. A tough enough ruler will come, who will by force knock this crap out of their heads and force them to live as in civilized countries. It sounds somewhat contradictory, but this is one of the options for a quick upgrade of the brain and worldview.
2. They themselves will eventually come to this. It will take many decades. As the Jews were led through the desert for 40 years so that they would forget what slavery is, so from the heads of Cubans it is necessary to knock out "socialism with an idiotic face." This path is evolutionary, but very long and it is not a fact that they "did not receive an additional gene of socialist laziness and stupidity"

Moreover, obviously Cuba had a lot of problems of their own, but the biggest country near them not giving them an inch of help of course causes trouble, hell even without help, just let them work with you right? They did not, and when you can't sell your product how do you imagine a nation could grow bigger? Just use it themselves? Then how will they pay their debts to outside? Not that they had many because they were all blockaded, so yeah dictatorship is bad but intervention from other nations are also quite horrible at the same time.

One day Cuba will definitely be able to get out of the problems it faces today, this is about the time of economic recovery that must be led by people who really have a goal in advancing the economic sector in the health industry. They will learn from the system of government that has been controlling the situation for years in order to get out of the problems that shackles Cuba.
Until the time comes, we can still pay attention in any way as someone who feels that life is better, how great it is to continue to support any state to continue to live in peace.

This condition occurs because of the mindset of the people and the greed of state officials. if the people are lulled into a soft life without hard work and they are satisfied with the current conditions, then these promises are the most accurate weapon for fooling the trying people themselves. on the other hand, as a government that places itself as a ruler instead of being a servant of the people, will worsen this situation, because they will of course think of themselves, as if they do not want to lose everything they have achieved.

On the one hand, it is a pity for the inhabitants of Cuba - they have lost several generations living, in fact, in isolation.
On the other hand, they themselves fell for idiotic promises, and decided not to work and achieve, but "take and share" (as it was in 1917 in Russia). The result is predictable with an accuracy of 1,000,000% - there will be totalitarianism, hunger, degradation, isolation, poverty. Therefore, they do not need to be dragged into a normal world by force - they must come to this on their own. Come to respect for private property, respect for knowledge, respect for laws, understanding that it is impossible to "take and divide" ... So let them adapt to reality for some time, and only after they are really ready - only then they will be allowed into this world. Otherwise, it will be the export of revolutionary terrorist movements.

Re local Cuban board, that would be funny. The whole Spanish section of the forum is used by a few people only, but it is really good because we can talk about the topics with people who actually care. A Cuban section would be there, however I am not sure that Cubans would really be able to speak freely or at least to do so without a certain risk.

Cash is not really anonymous. You actually either make a transfer, and has your name or you give it in hand to someone who sees your face and can potentially be recording you.

While I agree with you on principal that this is a dictatorship, left could have dictatorship as well as right, we have seen right dictatorship with Hitler, and we are seeing left dictatorship with China for the past many decades as well. So dictatorship is not just a left or right thing, it is both of them and they can both have it.

The difference comes clearer when we talk about a bit less radical than that, France and Sweden are left, UK and USA are right for example, neither of them are radical enough to have dictatorship, you have democracy in all four nations where people elect their president and that is why it matters so much that we do live a left world, I do like leftists ideas, but it should be around like Europe and not Latin America.

The biggest shame here is that people are making out this as some sort of failure for the leftists. I am a leftist myself and I have never supported what Cuba was doing, I never liked China and I actually hate them a lot, same goes for Russia. These are not "left" these are dictators, look at Putin, look at Chinese dictator, look at Cuba these were all basically places where rulers had the total control over everyone else.

For me that is fascism, because if people are not freely speaking the truth and can't complain about the rulers then I do not see how everyone is equal, isn't that what left should mean? Making everyone closer to each other? If a guy at the top is not even getting a complaint then how is it equal?

I have always said that social democracy where regulations make sure people do not die from lack of funds to buy insulin like what is going on in USA but also people elect those who will become president is the way, democracy can never be removed, doesn't matter left or right the moment you take away democracy you are becoming a horrible nation and as a leftist any place that doesn't have democracy is a bad place if you ask me and Cuba has been a bad place for decades.

I give it more credibility than elections in countries where there are dictators, that's for sure. And no, election manipulation does not happen in all democratic countries. I don't know if you have ever been at a polling station. There are usually interveners from all parties supervising the process. At the slightest doubt it is recorded in the electoral minutes. It is very difficult to manipulate election results in a generalized way and it is too exaggerated to say that it happens in all countries.

So elections in developed countries are not democratic and countries like Cuba are democracies? HAHAHA Don't make me laugh.


What data should I rely on according to you? Government data are based precisely on data. And what you say about it being twice as much is based on what you think. Even so, if they were twice as many, they would be a million, and not millions in plural as you said in the previous post.


No. Fleeing hunger and repression and in search of freedom.


You remind me of Alice in Wonderland. It seems that in Cuba everything is wonderful and in the USA they are going to be exploited, without medical attention and subjected to racism.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

By the way. Racism? Racism?

There is more structural racism in Cuba than in the US. As much as Black Lives only matter if they are killed by whites are shamefully praising the Cuban regime.

Cuba is the classic example of how socialism works. Situation is the same in other socialist nations, such as North Korea and Venezuela. And it surprises me that the voters around the world are now preferring this system, by electing politicians with socialist leaning. Check the election results for the last 2-3 years. Left-wing parties have grown astonishingly in almost every inhabited continent. Human memory is quite short.. they only care for short term benefits and elect those politicians who offer them freebies.

People need to realize the difference between having a better standard of quality, versus a bad place having something better than a good nation. Which one would I rather live in? Cuba or USA? I would prefer to live USA, even though it would suck to live there, it is still better than Cuba at least. However if I was sick, in which nation would I rather be? Cuba or USA? I rather be in Cuba. Why do people think that when you say stuff like "in Cuba you do not die from having diabetes and fail to buy insulin, or you do not have to pay half a million dollars for having cancer treatment, all of those are free in Cuba!" when you say that people think that you are saying Cuba is a good country.

On contrary Cuba is such a bad country and nevertheless they are much better at healthcare than USA, so what does that tell us about USA? They can make heatlhcare "free" and yet they knowingly do not do that, not because they can't, because even Cuba can, but because capitalists do not want to.

So, therefore, we must ask ourselves why the United States is too ambitious about governance in the Middle East and always interferes in what they shouldn't be doing. Did the US form a certain group to try to divert the system that was already running and then in the end the US came as a saving God? offers a variety of weapons, humanitarian aid, and medicine. They supply the country to fight wars.

In the future, the US is considered to be a saving service even though they themselves supply both parties to continue to carry out provocations in order to increase the increasing demand. take advantage of opportunities in adversity. Unwittingly forced both parties to pay with gold, oil, especially Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Iran, where the three countries have very large oil supplies.

It is estimated that Saudi Arabia (258 billion barrels), Iraq (145 billion barrels), Iran (208 billion barrels). The US will not stand still with all of this great wealth. Where the natural resources of the Middle East have become the target sector of US capitalism.



Saudi Arabia Energy

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Iran Energy

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Iraq Energy

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I was in Cuba, had a rest. There was a very mixed impression. On the one hand, there is beautiful nature, the Caribbean, palm trees, white sand, ... On the other hand, everything for a tourist is paid for dollars (recently it seems that the circulation of the dollar was limited) / KUK, the local population does not even have the right to use all that is available to a tourist. From a distance, the cities look interesting, but close up - everything is neglected, destroyed and degraded. A lot of restrictions, permits, "happy socialism" with food cards (libretto), where you will be sold a little food so that you do not die of hunger ... And not the fact that there will be all the food. For a month, a person is allowed to buy at a preferential price: 5 eggs, a pack of spaghetti, 2 kg of sugar, a couple of kilograms of rice and some more primitive products ... Yes, do not forget that in free sale products are unacceptably expensive for people with a pension of 11-15 dollars and salary 20-70 dollars a month...

I would not try to compare it, but if I had to, it would be with other Central-American  countries which have undergone a strong initial intervention from the United States and have eventually moved on to some short of democratic governments or have fallen into disarray. El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Panama... Mexico to a certain point. Even Chile and Argentina may share some elements. While Cuba continued under the Fidel and the party, these others suffered a pro-US dictatorships until they become short of democracies.

None of these have suffered a blockade. Most of them have suffered the effects of being in the path from where drugs grow to the houses of the citizens of the nation that nowadays takes most of them up their noses.


USA has already figured out that invading largely populated countries with plenty of rainforest jungle, large rivers and mountains is normally a low Rate of Return investment and is frowned upon by most countries since they would never get an UN resolution for that. Instead they supported Guaido, which does cost Venezuelan lives. I am not a fan of either of the Venezuelan so called governments.

You give too much credibility to democratic elections in so-called democracies where usually 50% of people do not exercise their right to vote, while others always vote for the same people - manipulation of election results is something that happens in all countries. In other words, free elections are no guarantee of democracy, but only a smokescreen that obscures the real state of affairs.


Do you trust the official data? If they say there are half a million of them, I'm pretty sure there are at least twice as many - because politicians are masters of lies and deception, and falsifying statistics is something all governments use.


I was speaking hypothetically from a health and general safety perspective - Cuba is certainly a better option for the average person. Of course, people are fleeing the country in search of better-paid jobs, but that comes at a price. How many of all these people really live better, not only in the sense that they have more money than before - but in the sense that they have no health care, that they are exposed to racism and difficult working conditions?

I agree with this. Especially the freedoms that its citizens have, above all to oppose the established regime without being killed or imprisoned, the degree of artistic or scientific development of the country, which in Cuba is practically non-existent, etc.


Your perception is wrong. Cuba is a dictatorship. As in all dictatorships, "free" elections are held to give the appearance of freedom and democracy, but it is a dictatorship after all.


You are obviously referring to the USA, and, again, your perception is incorrect: The number of homeless in the US is estimated at 552,830. There are not millions, there are half a million. Which is disastrous enough without exaggerating it any further.


Good luck with that. Approximately 1.4 million people have escaped the country, most of them going to the US. There is no news of people escaping from the U.S. to Cuba.

A country's economy is not something that can only be measured in the number of factories and GDP, it is sometimes much more than that - and in the example of Cuba, we see that people are still the greatest value of a country. Despite the constant portrayal of Cuba as one of the last strongholds of communism, it seems to me that there are more real democracies there than in some countries that are known as the largest democracies in the world, and have millions of homeless people who in addition do not have adequate medical care.

If I had to choose whether to live in the US or Cuba, I would choose the second option - despite the weak economy, sometimes it's not all about the money.

What you are saying is, is the fact that for all philosophical nonsense it has no impact on the existence of any particular country. Back then, I'll quote where Sparta was against Athens. They embargo and have a strength that their respective opponents cannot, namely the belief that in the future they will see victory.
To go further, your thinking is amazing. You have a point of view that I haven't been able to reach (I really appreciate that). The freedom of every individual in China and we look to neighboring North Korea will be very much the same. Silence strategy Silence is an action that closes the freedom of individual rights. How many times has Chinese communism violated UN rules that spearheaded the rehabilitation of a race and suppressed it in front of the closed eyes of the world?

As for Hong Kong and Jack Ma, you know who has silenced and deprived certain individuals and groups of people who want to live on their own feet?
Jack Ma, had been exiled several times and Hong Kong was betrayed, so they no longer had the democratic center of government they wanted.




Thus, our work in other parts of the country in Cuba will be very supportive if they want to come out and stand alone in their own homeland. Fully supporting their freedom is the most important point to live more decently, on par with other countries. Personally, I fully support the initiatives they have taken so far.

Surely, I cannot confirm the veracity of the claims in the articles, but it is also written somewhere how Cuba's healthcare remains an area of significant strength until today despite the struggling economy and US-led embargoes.

Notably, Cuba has 8.2 physicians per 1,000 people. That's apparently one of the highest in the world, much higher than the US' even. Moreover, "life expectancy is roughly the same as that of the US, but Cuba has better infant mortality rates and under-five mortality rates."

As a matter of fact, in 2019, "Cuba was ranked 30th among the world’s healthiest countries – the first among developing countries. The US was in 35th position.”

Even in terms of medical research, the country seems advanced. "The country produces around 65 percent of its own medicines and even exports some sophisticated drugs..." So it's not too surprising for Cuba to develop its own COVID-19 vaccine.

All of this despite its relatively weak economy.

https://www.europeanceo.com/home/featured/how-cubas-doctors-are-helping-the-world-fight-covid-19/

I wouldn't be surprised.  I happen to think that the speed at which the COVID vaccine was developed by companies such as Pfizer, J&J, Moderna, etc., was to be expected; the technology and ability to produce vaccines against new viruses (or new forms of them at least) has been around for a long time, so nobody should be blown away at how fast the COVID one got to market.  The only real thing holding it up was FDA approval, which those companies got around because of the urgent need.

I'm not familiar with Cuba's scientific establishment, but all countries have scientists working for their governments as far as I know, even the poorest ones.  I've no doubt that Cuba would be able to make its own vaccine.  There's a lot less rocket science and brain surgery behind doing so than the general public thinks.

That I have no clue about.  It's not as though we have a Cuban local board here (right?), and I don't really know how much crypto has caught on there.  Does anyone here know?  If I had to guess I'd say that it probably wouldn't be very popular with the government--at all--although Cuba's currency isn't suffering from hyperinflation, as is the case with other countries like Venezuela and others.

As far as funding insurgents....I still think cold, hard cash is still the way such things are funded (though that's another thing I don't really have too much knowledge about).  Cash is still as anonymous as it gets.  Even with bitcoin, there's a trail of money movement.

The Cuban American community is politically very important and most of them are descendant from the elite class who had to flee Cuba when Fidel Castro seized power from Fulgencio Batista. They support the US sanctions, because these people lost all of their property and business when Castro implemented nationalization in 1959. Barack Obama tried to remove some of the embargoes and that cost the Democrats the state of Florida in 2016 (and probably again in 2020). If Biden removes the sanctions, then the Dems can say good bye to Florida for the next 50 years.

According to what can be found online, medicine in Cuba is certainly not at the level of the Western world in terms of technology - but everyone has access to health care, and their people are still treated as living beings, not as those who can or cannot pay for health care. It is truly amazing that Italy receives help in its most difficult moments from Cuba, while some major democracies cannot agree on whether there is a danger of the virus at all or not.

A detailed insight into Cuban healthcare from the perspective of the US delegation - a little paradoxical that they are coming to see the results of their sanctions...

https://www.aacp.org/article/behind-cubas-healthcare-curtain

Whether you call it communist or socialist, this whole philosophy is shit. State ownership of the means of production has always, always led to people dying in famines. Millions of people died in China too. They are just very good in whitewashing and hiding the problems within their country. The progress of China isn't due to communist policies but by adoption of the free market.

When it comes to basic human freedoms and the importance of individual dignity, China is as much of a shithole as any of these other impoverished countries. There has been a trend of the "lying flat" protests within China. I guess just throwing hands up in the air and refusing to live out lives in a hierarchy, working for overlords is one form of protest that even the Chinese can do. So anybody taking the example of China as a "success of communism" is mistaken. Communism doesn't suck-ceeds. It only sucks. Lifeblood of the people and the freedom of their hearts. This is why it is commendable that the Cubans have been able to protest. God only knows what there authoritarian rulers would have done to them if their was no embargo stopping them from having the means for quick and brutal suppression.

Of course, China has that, enabled by the past decades' preference for economics over ideology. So you won't ever see protests there. Or if you do, then they'll go the Hong Kong or the poor Jack Ma way.

those sanctions jeopardized their freedom.

authoritarian leaders in Latin American countries don't sound authoritarian when they are sanctioned. if they really have the guts, they should trade elsewhere, they are already sanctioned, nothing to lose already. they should be trading and open their country to all businesses more often and the vast region is full of resources, literally untouched.

Well, the US has had a lot of interventions in Venezuela, just not always militarily.  The US continues to put sanctions on the country and also was recognized an opposition politician as the rightful leader of the country after the last election.  Both of these are interventions aimed to regime change, just not a military intervention.  The US has had repeated interventions in Cuba of the same nature, the sanctions are aimed at forcing Cuba to open up the government and become more democratic.  In that case, it's obviously not about oil because there is none.

That's what I've said before. You live in Venezuela, right?

Those I see praising the Cuban regime I would send to spend a little time there, but not with the politicians there, who live very well, but with the common people. They were going to get a taste of the good life there.

Above I was asking something else, too. Cnut237 was saying that the US has not intervened in Cuba because it has no oil. And this is something I find hard to believe because if oil were the reason they would have intervened in Venezuela many years ago.

The question was for Cnut237 but I am interested in the opinion of anyone else as well.

In Cuba the protests are due to a cry for freedom. They want a change of government system. It is enough to see the images of their humble houses, anyone would be tired of seeing the years go by with just a little money in their pocket to buy their food.
If we take a look at the evidence on social media of Cubans, we can be equanimous in our thinking and give reason to the country of Cuba that struggles to survive extreme poverty.
Take a look at #SOSCuba and check out the images and videos that people post demonstrating a call for help.

User on Twitter talks about three days without water, which is perhaps a problem that he has seen continuously in his entire life.

https://twitter.com/miguelqbano_/status/1418969522434891778?s=19

User on Twitter that shows what Cuba was like before the arrival of the dictatorship.

https://twitter.com/Eliabd6308/status/1418569516087402498?s=19

I think it's a bit misleading and unfair to say that no president has tried to ease the relationship with Cuba - great strides were made by Obama and some elements of the embargo were dropped, only to be reimposed by Trump.. because he felt like it. It's rather silly and wasteful, with all the support that America gives to countries with much worse records than Cuba, that this has persisted for so long. It's not even like Cuba is particularly close to Russia, like it used to be under the USSR because of common "communist" traits. While of course the leadership have many faults, it is amazing that the people have been so resilient and resourceful over the years.

Cuba and Venezuela are two different stories and two different problems.
Venezuela - had a systemic problem even before Maduro. The problem is in the "monopolization" of filling the budget, exclusively by selling oil. This is the economy of a raw materials appendage, the economy is very fragile, which, with any negative trend in the oil market, collapses the country's economy. For example, even such a large country as the USSR, at one time, collapsed precisely for this reason - the orientation towards the sale of resources led to the fact that the country was gone. Now a similar thing is happening with the economy of the Russian Federation. And Maduro is stupidity and inability to manage, which further exacerbated the situation.

Cuba is a very different option. This is a revolution, this is "the building of socialism, with the help of the USSR, as a path to communism" and, of course, "the answer to imperialism." As a result, it turned out as expected - a totalitarian regime, total impoverishment of the population, lack of rights and freedoms. In one word, "the victory of socialism in the Soviet way." In recent years, Cubans have been able to watch what is really happening in the world. And they are well aware that they are essentially kept like animals in a bad zoo! And probably they have a sense of their own dignity, a desire to live like a PEOPLE.

A corrupt system or government has no regard for humanity or human lives. If you say the fault is with the people for not protesting against bad government or voting them in, it may also shock you that people's votes don't in such system and the government would do everything to shut people's voice down including the use of military to fire on unarmed and innocent people on peaceful protest.

I agree with this one, it's the authoritarian government that is the problem but I also like to add that it's also the fault of the people for having that kind of government because they're the one that puts those people in place or they didn't resist when these corrupt government instilled themselves as leaders.

Lol, tell me more what I don't know about Cuba.  My concentration in college was cold war foreign policy. You're the same guy that's always posting conspiracy theories, so I don't know why I'd expect you to have a rational view of Cuba.  Apparently in your world, just because the US could crush a military they should?  Russia is still a huge backer of Cuba.  Cuba's economy is tied more closely to Russia than any other nation because Russia is Cuba's largest creditor, so any military intervention by America today would be almost as much of a threat to Russian interests as it would have been during the Cold War.  Cuba is still Russia's foil in the western hemisphere exactly because it's the only place Russia can support a destabilizing presence near America, which America has been doing to Russia consistently since the end of WWII.  Thinking this is just about Cuba alone is myopic and misses the larger foreign policy implications, but I've gathered that grasping a rational larger picture isn't quite your thing, as evidenced by all the posts from you tinged with conspiracy blather.

It can work but only if we were to surrender the desire for power and the need to step on another person. I mean, if you look at it, that's the reason why communism fails, the leaders that are instilled are just a replacement and not a reformation of the old and ruthless regime before that. I think that a certain level of socialism combined with capitalism can work because if you look at it. I mean look at countries with free healthcare and colleges.

It's mostly just against communism. These people aren't in the streets chanting about food or health supplies, they're directly protesting against government, meanwhile they get beaten into submission by government police. Vaccines and food are ancillary problems caused by communism. Biden administration has a tough time condemning communist directly so they'll blame these Cuban protests on social issues and not governmental issues.

I think if we look at the current conditions, both of them are actually a strong reason because if you look at the statistics behind Cuba now experiencing the worst economic crisis for the last 30 years, on the other hand the embargo from the USA could also be the reason behind this demonstration because I once saw it on a news show at the time. Miguel Diaz-Canel frankly accused the USA of the riots that had occurred in Cuba even though the statement was opposed by the US Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, who stated that the Cuban government made a big mistake if it blamed his country for the protests. According to Blinken, the demonstration was caused by the local government's mistakes in managing the economy and the Covid-19 pandemic.
consciously or not this is true.
regardless of which one is right now, it is the people who are there who are affected. and from here we can see that politics is cruel

The communist government system is good, it has brought China's economy to the fore, but not all communism systems can be applied in other countries, for reasons of nationality and ideology that have been around for a long time. Because basically, communism has gone too far for the democratic and socialist circles in Cuba. So it would be very unsuitable for Cuba to adopt it.

The embargo won't be the reason for the Cuban protest because it has been long that was happening. I rather think that Cuba just like Libya and some African countries are facing authoritarian and dictatorship government , this is the problem. When a government becomes Lord not to listen to people or give them some freedom, you expect outburst from the public one day. A Communist that tend to control everything and makes more effort to control the air that you breath is Doom to fall someday because global civilization is sweeping through every continent and nation. So you expect unrest often from such system.

That’s the problem have to face when they are living in a communist country. In countries like this you don’t have any say, because those in power are the ones that are controlling everything, and when you stand against them or say anything bad about them, they will come for you and take everything you have. In a time like this, it still surprises me that there are countries that are still under communist leadership.

People are meant to be free and have the right to speak up for whatever they think is right or wrong and not get suppressed by those in power. I do hope they find a way out of such leadership. This is the fate of some countries around the world right now.

I think we agreed in a previous thread that the Iraq war was fought primarily for oil. But now I don't quite buy the argument, because aside from you saying you are oversimplifying, what is also not explained is why Venezuela has not been invaded yet, if it has the largest oil reserves in the world. This time they did not even have to invent weapons of mass destruction, simply with the exodus of millions of Venezuelans they could have claimed that a genocide was being committed and that they were intervening "humanely", in order to take over the exploitation of the oil.

It's a no brainer solution and many esteemed people in the political and economic circles thinks about this, I have learned of this idea because I watched a video where the taxi drivers in Cuba gets paid more than the doctors because taxi drivers are one of the few allowed businesses that isn't controlled by the state.

it's 100% cos of the "government". The other day i saw a tweet, it was a clip showing a bunch of cuban protesters and one of them literally said that they're not on the streets because of embargos or sanctions, they simply got tired of the regime and want them to leave power asap

i think Cuba reached a point where even without a blockade they will still remain as a poor country. Remember that dictators do not care about the people, they care about staying in power and having control over the people. You remove that blockade and the dictatorship will only grow stronger by making more allies and receiving more capital to sustain that which keeps the dictator & Co afloat (lobbying, the armed forces, paramilitary, etc)

probably the first time someone has mentioned this in a topic about Cuba's political/economic affairs. You're onto something my friend        /s

The real solution here is to open Cuba to businesses and make those businesses hire people and have the regime removed of their reins in the country and be replaced by a democratically elected leader and it needs to be that the military has to go against the regime so no bloodshed happens while a transition happens.

The country relies on tourism which worked for them despite the embargo issue, all the more they could make their country better if it was lifted a long time ago. It really doesn't make sense why there is this blockade, keeping them among the poor country for a long time. Keeping them poor will make its people busy to meet ends while they can't improve their military. 

Cuba is geopolitically powerful, look at the location. The Chinese I guess are clever enough to have turned the tables, I guess they have the balls to fight back.

Communism/Socialism sounds really nice in theory. But it can never be put in to practice. In case of Cuba, since it is a socialist country ideally there should be zero unemployment, and medical care/education available to everyone. But that is not the case. Medical care is free, but what is the point when there are not enough doctors? Since the government has run low on Forex, they have sent Cuban doctors to other Latin American countries, in order to earn forex revenue. And now coming to the jobs, in theory there is no unemployment. But the average average monthly salary is around $25 (as of 2016). 

Actually, I think you probably have defined it:


If you invade Iraq, you can "liberate" lots of oil. If you invade Cuba, all you can liberate is poor people.
Obviously this is a bit of simplification, and ignores the history of Cuban links to the USSR... but oil reserves are a powerful motivator.

I think the protests is because of the pandemic not being able to resolved or being under control by the current regime. Plus another reason is that people are probably sick and tired of the current regime because they haven't made the lives of their countrymen easier which proves that communism doesn't work in practice.

It seems to me that most responses have bought the US Democrats and CNN talking points saying that people are demonstrating due to COVID and the embargo. They demonstrate shouting "libertad"! Which means freedom or liberty, so it doesn't seem to me that corresponds to what CNN says.

What does seem to me is that we are back to the same thing. In Cuba it is the embargo, in Venezuela, the USA also put sanctions but the fact is that it never works.

During the cold war, a lot of communist nations were under the umbrella of the USSR. And they all ended up the same. Authoritarian, psychopathic regimes that were so wonderful that they had to build walls and fences to keep people from escaping how wonderful they were. The people who didn't die of murder or starvation ended up very poor. They were pretty egalitarian societies, that's for sure. You had the billionaire ruling politicians and then the rest, the vast majority of the population equally poor, and getting poorer and poorer. It culminated in the hyperinflationary collapse of the USSR.

What do we see today in Cuba or Venezuela? It seems to me that they can be compared, because at the end of the day, to compare is to find similarities and differences.

Authoritarian regimes, massive and generalized (egalitarian) impoverishment of the population, apart from the multimillionaire ruling class, massive exodus of the population... By the end of 2020, 3.9 million Venezuelans were designated as being displaced abroad without formal refugee status.

To see how wonderful these regimes are you only have to look at how many people escape from Cuba to the US and how many escape from that racist, unequal and oppressive trash of a country that is the US to Cuba. Or how many escape from North Korea to South Korea and the other way around, etc.


This sums it all up.

Cuba is a one party communist state it is inspired by the ideas of marx engels and lenin and the economy is also state controlled but it is currently moving towards the concept of market economy. But because of their lack of governance everything is turning bad the cuban communist party overthrew the batista government and introduced one party communist rule in cuba. Since then the leader of the communist party has established himself as the head of state and the final decision maker of all policy decisions added to this are inflation power shortages and crises of food medicine and daily necessities.

Cuba is the classic example of how socialism works. Fidel Castro came to power by promising wealth redistribution. And he kept his promise after getting power, by seizing all the privately owned businesses. The previously wealthy upper class suddenly found themselves on the street without any money and the only option left for them was to immigrate to Florida and some of the other US states. A few decades later, these refugees have become one of the wealthiest demographic groups in the US, while those who remained in Cuba to support the socialist policies are now some of the poorest people in the globe.

I guess Cuba has not waned in terms of medicine and healthcare. I'd like to believe that despite the country's ailing economy, it still is worthy of praises in terms of healthcare. It's still their strength until today. Cuba is still one of the healthiest countries in the world.

I remembered when Italy was the epicenter of COVID-19 in Europe and international aids were measly. If I'm not mistaken, Cuba was one of the first countries to extend help. The country sent a team of medical experts. It must have meant a lot.

I guess the present-day protests are not directly due to the embargo which has been going on for decades, although its effects must have been more felt now with the pandemic continuously raging on than in the previous years. The bottom-line will always be the government. It is always at the receiving end of people's frustration, anger, complaints, and so on. But there is no country today which has not economically suffered the effects of the pandemic. However, in an already weak economy like Cuba, the pandemic must have made everything worse for its people.

Cuba's present day military is far weaker than iraq's was. Amassing guns and weapons requires capital. iraq being an oil rich nation gives it money to burn. They can buy tanks, jets and scud missiles. What natural resources does cuba have to exchange for military hardware? Aside from a very small tourism industry.

Cuba relies on the charity of communist regimes around the world to give it free stuff. And the amount of free stuff they have is far less than the military power iraq had when the united states invaded them both times.

The united states could destroy cuba's military easily. Its hard to define a reason, why that hasn't happened. Politics definitely factor in to it. Sanctions by themselves usually do not topple rogue states. There are other motives, consequences and side effects of sanctions. Which are well documented and known. But I suspect, you do not know them.

Comments like that show how unfamiliar you are with American history. America has been attempting to undermine the autocrats in power in Cuba since the 1960s certainly, and possibly before. The embargo is part of that effort (as misplaced as it is) and the interventions have included more active means like training resistance fighters or even invading the island (Bay of Pigs). Cuba always has the backing of Russia though, so you couldn’t just go in and “liberate” the people from the government. But as far as criticizing the autocrats? Do a google search man!

I think the latest revolt is fueled by food shortages and lack of medical support to treat COVID infection.

Many cubans could be dying from starvation or COVID. If they're already suffering dying, I guess they don't have a whole lot to lose at this point?

One interesting point here is americans were willing to travel to the other side of the planet to "liberate" iraq from an authoritarian dictator. While seeming unable to muster any enthusiasm to criticize cuban autocrats in their own backyard. I've only seen a few random florida mayors suggest lending aid to cubans and opposing the oppression there should be actual things.

Foreign investors are necessary, but may not control more than the specified target, such as the policy of each country that opens space for foreign investors to enter and keep a certain amount of wealth in the amount of about 5-10%. This is done to attract foreign bilateral contributions and compete. but it should be noted, all have different regulations, including in Cuba.

If the comparison is deemed inappropriate, then I am very open if you provide a list of countries that you think are good for further study, in order to find a bright spot on how the match between Cuba and the country you suggest is.
your input is very much appreciated..

I think it's both. People are just done with living in terrible conditions while the rest of the world is improving. People go out and protest to get to the government. I think most of the protestors realize that only two options there right now are either war with the US or reaching a compromise.

Now the first one is obviously not an option, and everyone knows that, so people come out and protest in order to call for an ending to the communist regime, which they hope would make the US lift embargo and create better economic conditions.

I think that comparing Cuba and Venezuela is already a bad idea. The story behind these is quite different. Venezuela was in fact one of the richest and most prosperous countries in Latin America, but it could not absorb the inevitable result of the purely capitalist models - people left outside the system - and eventually bred an authoritarian regime, which is not the main issue really but rather that they are also mostly illiterate, inept and unable to run a school patio, nonetheless a country as rich and marvellous as Venezuela could have been.

2021 Cuba's economic index is ranked 31st, which is 32 countries in the US. and we need to revisit where in 1995 when Cuba was still an oppressed country. Then continued with the Covid 19 pandemic at the end of 2020, Cuba experienced a slump (this is none other than a country in the US being a country that is concerned.

let's take a look at some of the movements of the Cuban economy over time


Image I cut from here

let's compare how the level of regulation of the economy of Cuba and Venezuela is the right country for us to use as a reference from 1995 to now

Color Symbol:
Cuba          : Purple
Venezuelan : Gray

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while the population between Cuba and Venezuela is still dominated by Venezuela, so for now Cuba is only natural that they will develop their own vaccine, they will be very easy to control in terms of spending.


Image I cut from here

I'd say (and have said) both. We can't really separate them.



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Yeah, I remember when Michael Moore took 9/11 first responders to Cuba for free healthcare.

On one side, you have an authoritarian regime in Cuba, which also replaced a previously authoritarian dictatorship (Batista). The economy of the country is struggling, their people lack the fundamental freedoms and the regime can only claim that they all have a home, a job and the right to study. In the old days, medicine was also top class but that finished when US strengthened the embargo.

Some people would be surprised to know that Cuba developed their own vaccine for COVID. On the other side, you got the US embargo - lasting decades and varying on intensity - a can of worms that no president of USA dares to kick for the electoral backslash.

Are Cuba protests due to the embargo or due to the government?

An on crypto, would bitcoin play actually in favour of the government, by allowing purchases anonymously or to possible insurgents?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba