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Topic: On topic and relevant - permitted flow- the definitive guide? Let's produce (Read 181 times)

member
Activity: 112
Merit: 44
Permitted flow, I guess "off topic" or not is somewhat dependent on the subject matter as well as a number of other factors. A short jab at someone that uses sarcasm to imply a point may be acceptable in a thread where someone is asking for feedback on their business idea, whereas it might not be acceptable for someone panicking asking for time sensitive technical support. Its tough to give a clear cut guide for what is and isn't ok, because its sort of a set of informal rules developed by the Bitcointalk discourse group that you get the feel for just by viewing posts here and seeing what people expect. As a general guideline, intent is as important as the subject matter. If you throw a friendly/neutral or even constructive off topic reply at someone, its far less likely to get reported. If you make the most amazing off topic post, however your intent is obvious that its just for post count, its still not safe from scrutiny. Aside from intent, you also end back at the unintentional effects of your post. If you make a post thats marginally on topic but directly draws conversation that is off topic and is distracting from the original purpose of the thread, it'll be far more likely to be deleted than just a single somewhat off topic post that doesn't grab the following conversation.

As I said it really depends so I can only speak about general scenarios, but I always liked the one thread of consciousness determination. If a reader can read your post without any additional information and see how it relates to the OP, it is in most cases fine. If you need additional explanation to see how it relates back to the OP, depending on all of the other factors mentioned previously, it has a higher risk of being considered off topic.

For example, lets say someone creates a thread about major mainstream retailers accepting Bitcoin. The subject matter of their post is speculation about why there are so many 3rd party sites that facilitate transactions, but they are not directly accepted. 

It is probably acceptable to directly respond to the OP's thoughts, talk about major sales channels (Amazon/Ebay/etc) or the 3rd parties involved with relation to Bitcoin. Where things get a little uncertain is how far off the main train of thought you can go before it starts going off topic. General discussion about the CEO of Ebay would be two streams of consciousness off of the main topic, unless you are drawing some kind of conclusion back to that main point. At this point it sort of diverges. If your post is marginally on topic and holds no risk of dragging the rest of the conversation off topic, its probably OK even two streams of consciousness away from the main point. If its very easy to draw a connection back to the main point, even if you are starting to veer off topic, its probably an acceptable post. On the flip side, if you are on the main idea and you write about a specific 3rd party service with the intent to advertise it, it might be considered off topic, even though you are on the main train of thought.

Its sort of difficult to tell you exactly what you're looking for, as you're asking for definitive information about acceptable social behavior. A lot of it is based on the vibe, not specific rules.


Some interesting insights here.  I'm going to read a few times then consider them all carefully.
Thanks for this.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 2156
Welcome to the SaltySpitoon, how Tough are ya?
Permitted flow, I guess "off topic" or not is somewhat dependent on the subject matter as well as a number of other factors. A short jab at someone that uses sarcasm to imply a point may be acceptable in a thread where someone is asking for feedback on their business idea, whereas it might not be acceptable for someone panicking asking for time sensitive technical support. Its tough to give a clear cut guide for what is and isn't ok, because its sort of a set of informal rules developed by the Bitcointalk discourse group that you get the feel for just by viewing posts here and seeing what people expect. As a general guideline, intent is as important as the subject matter. If you throw a friendly/neutral or even constructive off topic reply at someone, its far less likely to get reported. If you make the most amazing off topic post, however your intent is obvious that its just for post count, its still not safe from scrutiny. Aside from intent, you also end back at the unintentional effects of your post. If you make a post thats marginally on topic but directly draws conversation that is off topic and is distracting from the original purpose of the thread, it'll be far more likely to be deleted than just a single somewhat off topic post that doesn't grab the following conversation.

As I said it really depends so I can only speak about general scenarios, but I always liked the one thread of consciousness determination. If a reader can read your post without any additional information and see how it relates to the OP, it is in most cases fine. If you need additional explanation to see how it relates back to the OP, depending on all of the other factors mentioned previously, it has a higher risk of being considered off topic.

For example, lets say someone creates a thread about major mainstream retailers accepting Bitcoin. The subject matter of their post is speculation about why there are so many 3rd party sites that facilitate transactions, but they are not directly accepted. 

It is probably acceptable to directly respond to the OP's thoughts, talk about major sales channels (Amazon/Ebay/etc) or the 3rd parties involved with relation to Bitcoin. Where things get a little uncertain is how far off the main train of thought you can go before it starts going off topic. General discussion about the CEO of Ebay would be two streams of consciousness off of the main topic, unless you are drawing some kind of conclusion back to that main point. At this point it sort of diverges. If your post is marginally on topic and holds no risk of dragging the rest of the conversation off topic, its probably OK even two streams of consciousness away from the main point. If its very easy to draw a connection back to the main point, even if you are starting to veer off topic, its probably an acceptable post. On the flip side, if you are on the main idea and you write about a specific 3rd party service with the intent to advertise it, it might be considered off topic, even though you are on the main train of thought.

Its sort of difficult to tell you exactly what you're looking for, as you're asking for definitive information about acceptable social behavior. A lot of it is based on the vibe, not specific rules.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 44
Edit - I had been inspired to create this In part due to a recent misunderstanding due to perhaps some assumptions I should he not made.
However the points are still true for many other occasions here in the past.
It would still be an interesting experiment.

You would think that after millions or billions of posts here there would be some consensus on some strict and defined rules for on topic,  relevant and permitted flow.

It appears that if you post popular status quo supporting drivel then it is near impossible to go off topic or be irrelevant. You can not make a low value post If you support the status quo. Off topic and irrelevant is never mentioned.

You can freely admit you have not read the OP and simply demand people do not respond to the thread
You can say I have not read the op but post a meme saying dont feed the troll.

These are not of topic or irrelevant or low value. These will be marked bad and supported by other posters who just join in with this kind of behavior.

OTOH you can specifically detail an actual example demonstrating the central and core points made in the OP and even discuss applying the suggestions by the OP to an example that directly and specifically resembles the " hypothetical " scenario he describes in detail and attempt to discuss the implications and...

Yes off topic, derailing stupid and low value trolling?

Is it not possible to gradually work on a detailed guide to permitted flow that ensures consistent, open healthy debate while ensuring optimal efficiency and value?  

People are attempting to avoid full discussion of their proposals and ideas here. It is like they want things a certain way for some members but when you provide an exact historical example of precisely the behaviors they are wishing to discuss by their pals and the implications they themselves are proposing for those engaging in such behaviors

This is termed trolling and off topic? Low value? Derailing?

Perhaps it is better to just order people not to reply? Or make some memes claiming they are trolling?

I know some sensible member has suggested thrashing out some consistent and transparent detailed guide to permitted flow before but surprisingly nobody was bothered?

Surely an opportunity to force on topic consistent ,efficient and valuable debate is to be jumped at? Rid yourselves of these stupid off topic detailing trolls. You will be able to define and isolate them instantly by applying the consistent  and transparent guidelines.

We just get their posts and run them through them though the permitted flow checker and they will be revealed instantly. They will be easy targets.

If ideas only sound great hypothetically but then look grossly unattractive when you apply them consistently and fairly to all members here then perhaps best to forget those right?
Claiming no real world applications are permitted even based on your specific proposals is just silly.

I will give all my merits to the first sensible detailed draft for permitted flow. I may not have as many as most would assume a poster of my calibre would have by now. Just to manage your expectations.
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