Topic: only 300$ per month (Read 2844 times)

Well you know it's like all other advice on the internet - use it or ignore it.  The account you're posting on has been here for 5 days, so I doubt you've been here long enough to know what's been going on since the CPU days.

We're all harping the same "don't buy miners" because we're keeping people from making mistakes.  If people understood enough and could do the calculations accurately they wouldn't even as us - they would ask Bitfury how much for 10PH.

Glad to help.  The 2**32 represents the smallest possible hash (i.e. the highest possible difficulty).  To really understand it, you need to think of the formula as: v = r/D

v is value
r is reward
D is actual difficulty

D is calculated by multiplying the current difficulty by the value of the smallest possible hash: D = d * 2**32

d = current difficulty
2**32 = smallest possible hash (i.e. highest possible difficulty)

Remember, your hash rate is expressed in hashes per second, so that's why I have the 86400 in there - to convert the time into days (because who really wants to see how many seconds you should expect it to take to solve a block, or more importantly how much you'll be earning per second?)

So, going back to the formula of v = r/D, the value is per hash.  I just tweaked that equation to provide a more useful number, i.e. value of a given hash rate over a day.

One thing to note - this equation, which is the basis of every earnings calculator out there - is completely based on probability.  It is expected earnings in a perfect world under ideal conditions where you will find a block exactly in the given amount of time.  Obviously the real world doesn't always live up to ideals

For example, I mine on p2pool.  With the current hash rate of the pool, we should find a block every 1.2 days or so, yet we've found 2 blocks in the past 24 hours.  Hence, I've made more BTC today than I should have.  Now, however, we're getting into a discussion on variance and that's an entirely different can of worms - one which I have no desire to open.

May 2013 - Sept 2013 I used 10990 kWh.

5 months of the year, I use more then most people use all year long. You should see the stock position I've got with them.

Nothing wrong with a good ole internet pissin' match between boys. Keeps the blood flowing.



@jonnybravo0311 Thanks, first off.

Seeing those numbers makes it much clearer, and a very good starting point for a new guy. I'm sure it's around the net somewhere, think I've stumbled across it before at 3 am or such.(calculators)

Where do you get the 2**32 from in that equation?

Just like you, I'm sitting at home... by the pool on a Thursday afternoon. I'm self-employed, work from home and have no desire to quit my "day job".

Most of my miners are relatively efficient (~1w/GHs) and are still moderately profitable at nearly 9THs. The older inefficient gear is already offline and collecting dust. My current farm will be going offline as well in 2 or 3 months when they no longer generate enough revenue to cover electricity costs.

I knew when I started mining that revenue drops with each difficulty increase. I started small and bought new gear with my mining income and managed to stay ahead of the difficulty for quite some time. Then I reached the electrical limits of my home. I then retired less efficient machines and added a few more newer miners.

I have no intention of ever buying another ASIC, ever. I firmly believe that home mining will soon be a thing of the past. Spondoolies SP30 or BitMain's S3 may extend home mining for another couple months because of improved efficiency. But only the very early orders have a slim chance of making a positive ROI. And you'll need stacks of them, max-out your circuit breakers, struggle to keep them cool, just to make $50 a day.

This is the reality of mining. If you think I'm just trying to be an asshole by warning people... well, then I'm an asshole.

I tried to explain in an earlier post, xstr8guy did as well, but it appears you and he got off on the wrong foot and turned the thread into a pissing contest.

To answer your question, if you maintain a constant hash rate, you can expect to mine fewer and fewer coins as the overall network difficulty increases.  So, yes, you need to keep adding hardware to maintain the same amount of mined BTC.  I'm completely leaving "income in fiat" out of the equation, I'm strictly speaking of BTC.

Let's assume you have enough hashing power to earn 1BTC a day right now.  If the difficulty goes up 25%, you can expect to add 25% more hash power to maintain that 1BTC a day.  Here's the math that is used to calculate expected earnings per day:


As you can see, increasing the difficulty will directly affect the number of days to find that block, and hence directly impact your daily earnings.

A real example of how a 1.1TH/s miner has decreased earnings potential based on the previous 2 difficulty levels:


If you wanted to maintain your 0.04109209BTC per day, you'd just solve for hash rate:
Hope this helps.

@xtr8guy

Maaaybe you should let go on the fact that your outdated miners aren't giving the cash they once did and upgrade them

But I must warn you that you will never see a ROI, the electricity is expensive, the miners are pretty expensive. So you should think about not quitting your 9 to 5 job.


Just trying to help, Have a Nice Day! 

Nice, welcome to the board today.

Sorry if I'm tired of every thread being the same.

*Insert random mining topic here*

*Insert random mining questions here*

*Insert always leading to same standard response: it's too expensive, you can't afford the miners, they lose money daily, are you an idiot, you didn't even think of electricity, but have a nice day dick  *

I dare you to pick a thread where these doesn't happen anymore.

When did it become this communities JOB to remind everyone how much money they are losing? Talk about chips.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7749092

Thank you for trying to reason with this dick! Apparently he still thinks my comment was offensive in some way and doesn't want good advice. If he just read what we wrote, without the chip on his shoulder, he'd have his answers.

Exactly.  If you're thinking about the SP30, it looks like a nice piece of hardware, but will never ROI for you unfortunately.  You'll never mine that 8+ back you've invested.

But hey, you'll be supporting the Bitcoin network, you can say you're a mining Bitcoins, and can always sell the equipment later to recoup some of the losses.

This is all without factoring the electrical costs.

FUN!   

@ChuckBuck

Exactly, so getting back to my question before all this nonsense.


So 5 ths will be decreasing daily as well then? And the only way to keep up is constantly adding more hardware, correct?

@JunkBarman Like I said, he wasn't giving you financial advice, merely "mining for ROI" advice.

You can do whatever you want with your $5k or $10k or $100 million investment.

All we're saying is 1 TH/s miner income isn't constant, and will be making single digit income very soon.

Like i said, I wasn't asking for financial information from anyone. Besides, it's 9:45 am where I'm at, and I'm at home in front of you computer and it's thursday. Maybe that should tell you something before giving unwanted so called "financial advice".

He's talking about reinvesting your mined income for more mining.

Basically your 1TH/s miner won't make $20 odd bucks a day anymore after each difficulty jump, it decreases every jump, and you need to "invest" in additional mining equipment just to maintain that $20 odd bucks a day.

That's what he's talking about.  Mining income, not your 9 to 5 income.

He's not offended by you, he's giving you sage advice.

Maintain my income? What do you know about my money and where it comes from?

If I want to throw 5k on something, what is it to you? You have a vested interest in my money all of a sudden? I never asked for financial advice from this topic.

Besides, this is the mining speculation board right? So let's speculate a bit.

What I'm asking is, you can add more blades to a machine or you can add more machines, I only used the 1.1 THs as an example. I saw a machine touting it, wanted to get a bit more "under the hood".

Besides, if I've offended you or stirred you wrong, just move on.

What is this 1.1THs blade that you speak of. No such thing exists that I know of.

You need to get passed this idea of adding equipment to maintain your income. It is a vicious circle that doesn't have a reward at the end, these days. A while back, you could take income earned and reinvest in additional mining gear and still stay ahead. Those days are long gone.

Ok, so as of right now, a blade just maxes out, so adding more blades, just adds more chances, so to speak?

So adding more 1.1 THs machines is basically the same as adding more blades.

I would assume electricity is obvious issues, I used a ton last year.

1.1 THs not "keeping up" isn't the point. Difficulty increases approximately every 2 weeks (2106 blocks). Every machine/farm loses income when the difficulty increases. To continue to earn the same amount of BTC per difficulty adjustment period, you'd need to add new hash to match the difficulty increase... typically 20%.

At this very moment in time, 1.1THs will earn about $20 per day less electricity costs, assuming 100% luck and zero pool fees.

So, in theory, a 1.1 TH/s machine will be outdated at some point, it won't keep up?

tks guy
I got it

Sure, I'll explain it for you.  I'm purposefully leaving out a ton of details and only giving you a high-level overview of things.

The Bitcoin network strives to add 1 block to the block chain every 10 minutes.  To accomplish this, it sets a target difficulty.  Every 2016 blocks that are added to the chain, the difficulty is recalculated.  If the average time to find those blocks is found to be under 10 minutes per block, the difficulty is increased.  If the average time is greater than 10 minutes, the difficulty is reduced.  If the average time is exactly 10 minutes, the difficulty remains the same.

In general, the more power that is added to the network, the faster the blocks are found, and the difficulty increases to compensate.

What're your mean "difficulty adjustments"?
Can you explain for me?

https://www.kncminer.com/products/mini-neptune-third-batch

The KNC 1,500 Gigaash Neptune is called the Mini Neptune.  It is expected to start shipping in July and may hash at up to 2,250 GHash.  At a guess this hash rate implies three ASCII chips, compared to 5 on the Neptune.

KNC say they shipped 300 Neptunes on Monday 23rd June.  That is a Petahash in one day.  On Tuesday 24th June they aimed for 250 Neptunes shipped, another 0.81 Petahash. So they definitely have the capability to ship lots of product.

20 business day a month (assuming no weekend shipping and stock for 20 days) and that alone drives up the difficulty 15% for July 

It's a race to see what AM3 chips and Bitmain S3 will do.

Neptunes are shipping.  KNC met its Q2 date for the Neptune.  

KNC are apparently shipping close to a Petahash a day (300 units a day at 3,300 Gigahash each).  

I am not aware of a 1,500 Gigahash version of the Neptune.

Does KNC Neptune even delivered yet ?

$26 per day less the cost of electricity. That declines every 12 days (on average) with difficulty adjustments.
https://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator

how many do me earn with KNC Neptune 1500GH/s?

Since you're in Europe I would advise using https://btc-e.com/ and buy some Bitcoin.  Spend the $300 buying 1/2 a bitcoin (that's more than you could get with any miner and you won't have to pay for power).  Just make sure to move the bitcoin off the exchange and into your own wallet.  If you don't understand that, spend time learning that rather than learning about mining.

My suggestion.

thnks for advices

Don't you think your budget would be relevant to the original question?

Here are a few adages for you:

• It takes money to make money
• You cannot get something for nothing
• No such thing as a free lunch

I'm afraid the "use $1000 computer to mine $10,000 of cryptocurrency per month" boat sailed a long, long time ago.  Are you even considering electricity, tax and exchange fees?  If you buy any miner now, you will 99.9% chance be net zero for about... forever.  Please read the many many other posts of people who have done the math.

Do yourself a favor and do not buy the hype.  That being said, as had been said above-- the best you could do it to buy a Bitmaintech S3 when they become available.  Bitmaintech prices their gear such that they ROI after 3-6 months-- assuming you have the skills, equipment and tolerance for loud fan noise to make it that far.

Bitcoin mining equipment is not cheap if you want a powerful rig. The difficulty is rising much faster rate than the price of bitcoin itself. You have better ROI return if you mine alt coin such as litecoin and converted to bitcoin.

my advice is forget about mining
learn about recent difficulty increasing and you will understand why
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty
and if you want calculate how much your earning, try here :
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/calculator

1800$ it's too much

With Antminer S2 (around $1820), you will get $300 / month for 1-2 months
but if difficulty change drastically, you won't get it
wait for Antminer S3 and buy 2 of them if it offers better price

300$ is enough for me per month which device will be OK to gain 300$