Topic: [Open] 6.4 BTC loan, collateral/escrow, monthly interest, ~5 months. (Read 4535 times)

I am curious to do these loans get repaid by the dollar mount, or do they get paid to the bitcoin amount only . Isn't it risky to loan such an amount as a variation could bring a similar loan 5 months back, from 3000$ to around 1200$ right now ?

lol this is hilarious.

what did this guy do to get banned?
I thought you have to try pretty hard to get banned around here.

Anyway, you have to be realistic about
the fact altcoins aren't stable.  if you want a 5 month loan
you have to allow liquidation otherwise it is too risky.
that's like, common sense.

Plus you have to offer 120% of the current value,
not some monthly average amount.

also, I wouldn't recommend lending out
that much bitcoin, it may be hard to
sell the altcoin without crashing the price.

This is probably a good decision. However it you look above you will see that he is somewhat deceitful when describing his collateral and if you look at his trust ratings you will see that most of his trust was gained from an escrow holding collateral for him.

 
Honeypot...I'm sure you can understand that given the ongoing account challenges you are having with forum mods and Maidak's lack of response, I am going to have to put a hold on this transaction until everything is cleared up and resolved.  

Reference link:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10224334

The risk and challenge level parameters of this potential loan have changed significantly given the new and evolving details regarding your account/accounts.  One of the driving forces for approval is the trust rating associated with your Honeypot account...if this account is now banned and/or limited, then a major approval criteria has been eliminated.

Unfortunately, given the change of circumstances, loan underwriting criteria has not been met at this point.  Please do keep me posted should things get resolved, as I would certainly be willing to reevaluate the situation and reconsider a future potential loan, if it could be helpful at some other point in time.  Thank you again for reaching out to me for assistance.

If you check meta, he was banned

Did you got full amount? I can give you 0.4-0.7BTC interest-free loan. Collateral needed! I can accept any established altcoins or any other. You can escrow the collateral, if you don't trust me!

P.S. Any way to reduce the term lenght?

   ~~MZ~~

Did you not read the OP that you quoted? All the collateral has been promised already, and I updated as so before you asked.


Cheeky ain't cha? Of course you had no part in petitioning the mod to ban my Honeypot account from posting or issuing pm because your little feelings got hurt haha

If your 'friend' is keen on confirming my identity, send a pm (it can still receive pm, just not post or send pm) to Honeypot and I can quote them back using this one or my email.


You know what you and your kind is trying to do, so drop the bull and act straight

I am not sure who you are, but my friend is only interested in the deal with the OP. I think you should create your own thread if you want to take out an uncollateralized loan.

A 'Friend' - of course

As of now, all the collateral has been promised to the two respective parties above. My account is restricted at the moment, so I will communicate via email shown above on my post. I have already sent copies of past conversations to ducatitalia and lihuajkl to prove my identity. You can also google that email and see that it was part of my Honeypot post long ago for a project that is dormant now.

If your 'friend' issues a loan to me, it would be uncollateralized since I have already promised the whole collateral to the parties above. If the 'friend' is still interested, have him  send an email there anyway.

I have a friend who, against my advice might be interested in lending to you based on the monthly average price. It looks like two people have reserved spots, however are the terms finalized? If the offer is still open can you please let me know honeypot? Thanks ;0

Due to ongoing problems with the moderators with my existing accounts, I will be using this account (assuming it is once again not shut down for no proper reason other then 'wahhhh he hurt my feelings' ) and email [email protected] to communicate with my investors. I will keep this updated as much as possible - and you are free to ask me confirmations as to my identity.

Or you can petition certain moderators on the forums to remove the restrictions on my Honeypot/ReservoirHunt account (both publicly declared to be mine infact)

Sooner the better, easier the communications will be

Confirmed, waiting on escrow to agree to hold the collateral.

We have agreement through PM as follow:
Loan offered for 40% interest rate, with payment of 8% every 30 days from the day Honeypot receive the funds to his btc address, GMT, up to 150 days. At the 150 day mark, Honeypot repay the last interest amount and the principle itself.

Every 30 days, Honeypot send 0.136 BTC to me. I will confirm via PM and publicly on this thread the receipt of the interest.

Finaly repayment: 2.38 btc total = 1.7 btc principle + 0.638 btc (8% * 5) interest 

We ask Maidak to hold the 30 million noblecoin as collateral. No liquidation of any kind, just holding the collateral only to be dispensed if the interests or the principle are not paid back on time.

Ducatitalia has reserved 4 btc portion of this loan with negotiated terms. Remaining portion 2.4 btc.

OP updated.

2.4 btc portion still open for offers.

I do not currently keep a twitter account - as in 'current' being the key word here. Perhaps I would explain it further it your comment was not accusatory, but I would hate to assume others are not thoughtful enough to understand the conversation, or is in need of hand holding as such. May be your standards and mine are different. Your call however People I have met and talked with there and through other channels know that this is who I am, so that means my actions are scrutinized far more than any mere anonymous screen name in the forums.

Once again, I don't understand how you can possibly say I am over valuing anything when in my previous deals, I actually have loans based on deals lower then the current avg. It is a starting point of the negotiations, and it seems you cannot separate this concept from a set in stone condition, which it is not. Furthermore, the fact that most other deals calculate collateral based on immediate condition makes it neither justified or fair - these are my personal terms and position from where I hope to begin the negotiations, and you would do well to understand this concept before making any accusations because you find it to your 'disadvantage'.

I mentioned the collateral name, and the monthly avg value. If you want to find out its current position, no one will have any trouble looking it up in simplest ways along the usual exchanges. I do not presume to spoon feed and treat my clients as if they cannot be bothered to do so or is incapable.

If you do not like the fact that my starting point of the negotiations begin with me trying to minimize the disadvantage to my position as much as possible, then you counter it with your position and we work towards a compromise. It's called initial negotiating position - something that seems alien to you since you are essentially saying everything I say and wanting to get the best out of the deal is 'unethical' and 'wrong'. I do not believe I have ever closed doors on the possibility of counter suggestions and compromise - but you presume to say that you can demand certain conditions while calling my own negotiations an 'unethical practice'.

There is nothing I have with held, relevant or irrelevant - unless you are seriously claiming that you need everything literally delivered on a silver platter. I gave you the name, monthly avg, and amount of the collateral being discussed. Anyone with half a brain can easily see what its current value is, what 'monthly avg' means, and that volatility of the markets makes 'current' value about as worth as its possible x2 value next hour - hence the practice of taking the monthly avg. If the current values were x3 then it was weeks ago, then as I have done in the past I would avg down my collateral to match the overall market trend. It is interesting how you do not take notice of those things while picking out nothings and distorting my intentions and words to smear the deal

With this type of entitled mentality that justifies your own pursuit of profit at the expense of childishly vilifying another, it's a little surprise you think you can say any of what you claimed and hope to be taken seriously. You repeatedly claim 'this is standard' 'everyone else is doing this' 'says you' 'unethical', yet I see nothing about understanding whether you know what negotiating means or wanting to compromise - only that you see a deal that is less advantageous than usual and presumes to say that it is 'unethical'.

Everything you have said simply boils down to you not liking what you are being told, and instead of discussing the deal, you want some kind of instant gratification and sweet deal on a silver platter. Not to mention you are flat out lying about not being told relevant information - no one in their right mind will consider your claim justified unless they are saying you somehow deserve to be offered up every possible scrap of information and their cousins as an offering (why, because you are anything more than an equal party in a negotiation?), something that is easily found out if an individual can type or surf the web from the most obvious sources.

Is it any wonder that the forums are full of scammers and paranoid mods, when every single fuck who expects everything for themselves mouths off and accuses others of lying? If you think my initial starting position is very disadvantageous, then either work towards a compromise or simply decline the deal. To bitch and moan wailing about 'unethical' or 'scam' because you don't find things to your advantage is simply ridiculous. If you were more interested in sealing the deal and (as you are expected to do, why not you can think for yourself to do basic leg work on your own) simply found out about the current market conditions, there would have been no problems. Instead you presume to demand to be catered to and be covered for every excuse you would otherwise use to accuse others of 'lying'.


It's too bad that you find the terms not to your liking, or that you are incapable of basic negotiations and haggling, but that is your decision. Just as it is mine to state my initial position to my relevant advantage and work towards a compromise. Being greedy and ignorant doesn't always fly when you are a customer or a client, but you can't admit that you are arguing with an entitled mentality here that squeals 'unethical' whenever you find out that the game is a 2 player affair

Serious offers and negotiations welcome

From your PM:
Says you. Most of the time, from every other deal that I have seen on this forum the current value of the altcoin is used. Can you prove an example of when any other person has ever even offered to use a monthly average of the value of their altcoin?
You said that you wanted to use the monthly average to value your collateral. You did not mention anything about what your altcoin could be traded for today if it were to be sold.
The unethical part would be withholding to other potentially interested parties the fact that you are overvaluing the collateral based on current market conditions.

The reason why you give more collateral then the loan is worth is so the lender does not have to sell the collateral after even a small decline in it's price. This is to protect you from having what is essentially a margin call after only a small decline in the price of your collateral.
Of course it would be fair for you. You are getting the better end of the bargin.
I think it is pretty standard to ask for 110% to 120% worth of collateral based on current market conditions.
The relevant information that you withheld is the value of the collateral. You gave only a favorable valuation to it's valuation and did not give full disclosure.
I am going to decline to participate in this deal.

As I have explained (and I think I disclosed fully to all interested parties what the collateral is and what the monthly avg is), we must use the monthly avg in a volatile crypto currency market to decide the appropriate value for the deal. I have certainly not with held any details to those who request them because they are interested, and the volatility means it really doesn't make sense to go down for you to gain more collateral for the loan, while the other way is 'unethical'. Hence, the compromise at the stated terms of taking a monthly avg for the value of the collateral and loan amount being discussed.

No one who is interested and PM's me is not told about what value I use to calculate the collateral with, and the reason for such, which I find to be fair. As I mentioned, in the past negotiations have made parties agree to terms that are acceptable to both, and in many cases it brought the collateral to a more agreeable amount as we assessed each other's position and found a compromise. This is a negotiation phase, and that's how deals are made - middle ground that both parties can agree on from their respective starting points. My starting point is the monthly avg for the collateral - and we, as I repeatedly mentioned, negotiate to find a compromise that is within acceptable bounds for each of us.

As I said, 'All terms are up for negotiations' - as in the OP. Once again, I understand your concern, but I do not believe I have with held any information, some even irrelevant, to our negotiations. I would ask you to retract such a claim because it simple does not match the facts - and I believe you are giving an unqualified statement as to what you deem 'unethical' vs. 'simple disadvantageous'. I have not with held any kind of information from you or any other interested parties when they contacted me (certainly no one will have any trouble figuring out the price avg for the collateral anyway with loan amount offered vs. recent market movements).

Once again, I would ask that you correct your statement since I have disclosed everything in the negotiations. If you want to further negotiate the appropriate loan vs collateral, feel free to message me and we can work out a deal we both find acceptable

Well I would normally provide that level of privacy to you, however ethically, I feel the need to disclose that kind of information because I feel that you are being somewhat misleading in your negotiations. I don't think failing to disclose the fact that the value you are giving your collateral is at least 10% more then the value currently given to it on exchanges is being transparent nor is a way to conduct business.

Yes. All terms were discussed and disclosed at the beginning of the discussions. Sent you another pm.

Was the lender specifically made aware of the differences in price? I was not told until I specifically asked (after doing my research on the current price).

Of course, we go by the monthly avg - that's a bit more than usual leeway since last time I loaned out with 2 week avg and it was almost 50% higher than monthly avg

I think I am going to pass on the loan. The OP is offering to give a value of his collateral the monthly average of 8 sats, while the current trading price is between 6 and 7 sats on the major exchanges and wants to get a loan for the entire value of the collateral based on 8 sats.

In other words he wants to get a loan while using collateral valued at between 75% and 87.5% of the principle of the loan.

I appreciate your interests. I will send you the pm with details

I may be interested. I just have a few more questions. I do not agree using any new escrow service, that would honestly be dumb. Is the collateral NobleCoin? It appears that the escrow is heavily involved in NobleCoin; can you confirm your level of involvement in NobleCoin? Can you disclose your twitter account?

The offer is still open. The collaterals are not up for 'sale'. They are collaterals, and this one individual rum152 is more or less outright lying just because he can't get a last word in.

That escrow has recently opened, and is a preference. Of course, it does not have to be him - I am up for using maidak or any other escrow both parties can agree on. The twitter belongs to the suggested escrow, nothing more.

I have no idea if you agree with the terms on the OP, but I would ask that you be careful with such accusations - nothing is a 'scam' because you do not find the terms to your advantage. If you want to find scams, there are plenty of threads out there in the btc talk right now


All terms are a bit more generous and stringent and open then other successful loans I have completed in the past, in the amount greater than one I am offering right now. They are listed in the OP.

Feel free to offer additional questions.

I am confused. Is this offer still open or is it a confirmed scam? This really does look like a scam to me. Why would anyone want to buy 6+BTC of your NobleCoin? Why are you suggesting to use some random escrow that has zero trade history on the forum? Whose twitter is this?

I am confused??? Was that a yes or no to the reading my posts?

You have not asked a single question that I have not addressed. You on the other hand are doing exactly what you claim me to be doing - deflecting my questions.

You gotta speak for yourself once in a while. You haven't given a single valid answer to any one's questions, just deflections that warp the situation and facts.

Go play elsewhere. Legitimate offers have little time for your bitching and arguing in something you have no place in.

I am going to ask this again. Are you actually reading what I am saying or are you just dishing out random insults? You did not address a single issue/concern that I mentioned in my previous post.

The most amusing, easy meat anyone has seen in a long while

Keep winding yourself and chase your own tail, not to mention you discuss semantics while just hiding behind your 'logic' LOL

'looser' what are you michael moore? I was under the impression that this forum discouraged children, but 20 somethings these days behave as teens, so you are excused for your behavior

Your ulterior motives and weak motives are too obvious haha

You had already responded to that message so I don't know why you would quote the message after that and respond to a prior message.

If you were taking out a fiat based loan then yes the borrower would need to provide more bitcoin then the value of the loan you are taking out. If the price of bitcoin were to fall then to repay the same amount of dollars then he would need to give the lender more bitcoin then he received.

That is not however what is being discussed here. We are discussing you taking out a bitcoin based loan and the need to provide something greater then the value of the amount of your loan in order to protect the lender. Any lender that accepts otherwise would be stupid

Now this bitch can't even remember what he wrote few minutes ago LOL

Only for this bitch, he is to lend twice the amount for half the collateral so mitigate my risks and potential loss of profits should btc tank below 100 and collateral double within the next few months

Fair's fair, eh?

No. I am pointing out specific facts about your loan request. My previous post did not mention the word 'scam' you reached that conclusion by yourself.
In what ways were other conditions you set for your previous loans looser? Your other loans were repaid because the value of your shitcoin did not decline in value.
No you have not. You have explained zero risks that you are taking on.
So you are saying that people are actively trying to attack your scam coin while you are giving it up as collateral? Don't you think that might be something you might want to disclose to potential lenders? If an attacker were to become successful then the price of NOBL would probably decline.
This is why you offer collateral equal to at least 120% of the amount of the loan. This allows there to be some level of volatility in the market without forcing the liquidation of your shitcoin.
Anyone who makes this kind of claim is lying. And is probably a scam

HAHAHA now we are down to you saying 'SCAMMM' when obviously you are just trying to bitch and moan about an argument.

Now that is an interesting, delusional claim

I have set even looser conditions in the past for all my loans, and what a surprise, they are all repaid in full

I have already explained above why risks and benefits exist for both sides, and no one is disputing this fact aside from you who want to squeal 'scam' in an effort to bitch at a deal that you have no place mouthing off about with your 'opinions' (just an excuse to bitch as anyone can see - no one gave you permission to do so in someone else's business because you got a mouth to work with)

I am offering a collateral in an asset that has endured past longer than a year, certainly longer then you have been here, while surviving attacks and accusations from all quarters by a publicly known developer with identity revealed since day 1. In the mean time, you talk about secondstrade with '190% returns'. LOL

Volatility of the market would make liquidation arrangement too risky unless specific terms are agreed upon, and I have worked with individual clients about adding additional collateral in a way we both agree on, which you obvious got no place voicing yourself.


Chances of lender being repaid, thus far with many of my other loans, have been 100%, no less


I can't say the same for your own 'business' never mind lack of any honest dealing in your part.

Give us more excuses if you want.

Keep bitching some more and let's hear you squeal

Here is the thing: you cannot accept that your loan is a scam. Despite the fact that it has been proven to be as such. You refuse to give any evidence that you will be at risk by giving your collateral to escrow.

You are offering an illiquid altcoin as collateral and are demanding that you receive the entire bitcoin value of it as a loan.

You are refusing to allow the lender sell the collateral if the value becomes too low

The chances of any lender being repaid are directly tied to the future value of NOBL when the loan comes due.

'Accurate' only if it is on your terms, while facts are facts no matter your feelings

All the while ignoring everything you want to deny.

Bitch mind at work here

Nope. I want to make sure that all the facts are accurately presented. You are clearly trying to misrepresent the facts to get terms to be more beneficial to you. Some people would probably consider this to be scamming

Think what you like if you can't be bothered to read, quote, or 'accept' what has been told because 'it isn't in a way you find understandable'. No one other than you said there are no risks on part of both parties

Squeal 'fiction' all you want if you can't reason with facts.

It's obvious you are just desperate to get the last word in with inane excuses after piping up with your mouth carelessly in other people's business

So if you are not willing to explain the risks or even point them out are you willing to admit that there are not actually any risks on your end regarding giving the collateral to escrow for the duration of the loan?

BWAHAHAHAHA I can't believe how clueless this fool is.

'If you want me to admit that you are right then you need to explain them in a way that I understand'


And that, ladies and gentleman, is why we can't have good things.

I have read the entire thread. The risks that you claim to be taking were presented in a way that I don't understand. If you want me to admit that you are right then you need to explain them in a way that I understand

Scroll up, read, and come back to bitch again with something other than 'but that's just fiction' or something weak

In all seriousness you'd think that kids these days lost all touch with anything remotely resembling dignity or backbone. This one just spreads its legs wider and wider LOL

Why don't you state the risks that you are taking on again since I clearly did not understand them the first time? Explain it so a 'little bitch' can understand.

LOL now you got the mouth to say what others can and cannot do, or know or do not know. What 'facts' do you have other than disregarding a clearly stated risk that is present for the borrower and solely focusing on the risks of the lender at the expense of the other party? You certainly didn't do more then scream 'fiction' when presented with only few of those cases.

This bitch just keeping running itself deeper and deeper into its grave

Why don't you use actual facts to back up your claim that you are taking risks? All you are doing is making personal attacks that don't even have any merit.

The reason why you don't have a clause that the escrow can sell your NOBL is that you know it is not possible to sell that much inside of 5 months.

We do have a number of cheeky 'smart' fools getting mouthy. Good to know

'Closed' LOL Of course. Feel free to bitch and moan as you like. I'd consider your 'comments' all part of your bitch routine until you can get some semblance of proper manners together or better understand your place.


Wait, you mean if a lender or a borrower profits, or has a potential to profit, from the arrangement, that's a 'scam'?

Just because every borrower seem to bend over backwards for their 'customers' doesn't mean the arrangement is anywhere near 'fair'. Now, I want to hear exactly how your entitled attitude can explain what 'fairness' means when you actually believe real risks presented on my end are 'fiction', while risks with slightly less possibility on the side of the borrower is 'paramount priority and if you don't cut slack for them you are a scammer'.

Can you be any more of a whiny little bitch masquerading with your 'criticisms'? The only reason you are sticking around to bitch and moan is because you carelessly forgot your place, stuck your nose where it didn't belong and got called out on it, and is now trying to make up for all of it with that mouth of yours

You just sound more and more delusional with every post you have here. Ask my past loaners in every occasion if they were 'scammed' by being paid back in full with interest every time they lent me money

Of course I can't trust anyone with 'secondstrade' -190% return on their name.


Please, if you are so interested in bitching and moaning for argument's sake, at least have the fucking dignity and balls to say it straight and direct.

Don't be a bitch, eh?

I am not a fool. I am saying it how it is. Anyone that lends money to you is the fool, especially after considering your terms. You are 100% selling your shitcoin (aka NOBL) to the lender with the option of buying it back at a 30% premium in 5 months. There is no other way of spinning it.
I happen to know for a fact that this is not the case. You are clearly waiting for the right time when someone does not understand the concept of lending with collateral and will end up with a likely worthless scamcoin.
You don't know what I am or am not interested in. All that you know is that I can see through your deception and will not lend money to someone who is likely trying to pull of a long term scam
You are wrong again. No one has offered to fill any part of your loan even though multiple people have posted here that have the ability to fill the entire amount. Why do you think that is? Maybe because the established lenders who happen to know how to prevent from getting scammed can also see through your BS?

As far as I am concerned your offer is closed until you can come up with a better scam coin as collateral and can offer at least 120% worth of your scam coin as collateral.

I have not seen one criticism that you have acted maturely to in this entire thread. I have skimmed through your other threads and you have acted in similar ways

I would have to agree. This sounds very risky for the lender. I am not sure why the OP thinks he is so good that he does not need to abide to community standards and offer less collateral then what is generally considered to be "safe"

I will say there have been others who gave legitimate feedbacks, both here and via pm, and of course I welcomed them. However, anyone can see that this is merely a play at making arguments for its own sake, after carelessly making inane accusations, nothing more. The only shame is that this fool can't take what he's trying to dish out.

I take into account serious feedbacks, not some half baked attempts at legitimatizing their own uppity behavior by masking it with 'criticisms'.

If that is unfavorable to you, then I hope you see that the other party isn't really interested in anything but argument for its own sakes, as is clear to anyone.


And no, I don't need this bitch's money for anything, nor do I have any intention to accept them.

@Honeypot - you really are reflecting poorly on yourself to call anyone who gives you any kind of criticism a bitch. After treating him that way I can be certain that he will not be willing to lend to you

Are you even reading what I am writing? I have a feeling that you are not because it is not in any way a response to my arguments/concerns.

Any lender does not care that there are "supports" for the market of NOBL. All they care about is their ability to collect on the loan.

You are going to argue that both parties should take some kind of risk, however you are the one needing the loan, the lender does not need to make any loans and will not be in any worse off position by not making a risky loan while you obviously would be worse off if you did not get the loan otherwise you would not be asking for one

Happy to see that you want to be spoon fed every aspect of the deal. Let's me demand that you pay out double the btc for this loan, just for you, accounting for the highly likely drop to sub 100 this coming few months

How are you going to make up for your obvious profiteering attitude when the largest, 'steadiest' crypto market that I am loaning and collateralizing for has steadily fallen despite every support to the contrary?

Weighing the objective sum of the facts, I would much rather you and you alone are obligated to pay out double if you ever hope to gather any interest on loans you make


What a bitch this one hahaha

If a lender needs to wait a long time to sell your collateral when you default then it probably wouldn't be very good collateral. According to the sticky about the need to use collateral:

If your NOBL cannot easily be resold (eg it takes a long time to sell it) then it is probably not valid collateral.

Also the amount you are trying to borrow is only enough to cover the principle, not the interest. How is a lender suppose to get his interest that is due him when you default?

'just to be clear, can I shut out all other situations and bitch about how i want to get the last word in with selective lies?'

Trust me, you can sell off entire 6.4 btc in the collateral market with appropriate volume given time

Anyone can take the markets either way - and you apparently can't keep your mouth from running against your benefit

You never answered any of my points and just switch topics - and we haven't even gotten to how you never responded about you forgetting your place and criticizing people you are inferior to.

So just to be clear, am I correct to say that the lack of a response as to how a lender could potentially sell the NOBL when you default means that it would not reasonably be possible to do so?

It does not matter what is happening in the rest of the market, all that matters is the fact that the trading volume is not large enough for anyone to reasonably sell that much NOBL in a short period of time

LOL

If you want to manipulate and play around with collaterals according to what you want, then I suggest you get your 190% return business going better.

Maybe you need to look at the entire market and suggest why anyone cannot dispose of their 'shitcoins' (by someone who has far greater merit then some mouthy fools like you no less) when things can go either way in the books

Anyone can see clearly you are moaning and squealing where nothing is your business, but that's par the course that you mouth off for the sake of doing so


Feel free to put money where your mouth is if you can do anything about it

Like I said if the escrow were to sell the collateral for bitcoin then the loan would still be collateralized, but the lender would be more protected, and you would still have been able to execute a trade that you would have made if your NOBL was not being held in collateral. No one losses in this scenario.
I take it by the lack of your response that you are not going to make any counter point to my statement.

---

You still have not addressed how a lender is suppose to sell the 6.4 BTC worth of your shitcoin when you default without crashing the price. The 24 hour trading volume across all exchanges is less then 1/4 the amount that would need to be sold

Good on you that my terms are not acceptable, and that you can only bitch and use semantics

'If the collateral were to be exchanged for bitcoin prior to you defaulting then the lender would not have a problem because they are still protected. There is no logical reason why any lender would object to you not selling your shitcoin.'

Maybe I would never suggest that an escrow buy or sell a collateral that is supposed to, collateralize my loan?

If I have not stated it in the OP, then maybe it's not something you should presume to 'need to be there'. How about 'it's not there, and thus isn't part of the agreement'?

Interesting real risks are 'created' and my own risks are 'at the expense of legitimacy' LOL

Apparently your 'logic' is a joke that revolves around trying to bitch at others


Your position is noted, and your bitching and moaning about what you think you can get mouthy about, is also noted

One other thing: the 24 hour trading volume on all the exchanges that trade NOBL here have a total trading volume of less then 1.5 BTC. Why don't you explain how a lender is suppose to sell this for bitcoin when you default on the loan without crashing the price and ending up with nothing (or much less then they lent you)?

I would say that you do not have a term in you OP that you can sell the scamcoin if it's price increases because you know it would not be possible to sell that much if it's price increases

Your logic is still not valid. The lender has the escrow hold the shitcoin (NOBL in your case) for his protection. The lender is protected because there is something of value that can be exchanged for bitcoin in the future when you default on the loan. If the collateral were to be exchanged for bitcoin prior to you defaulting then the lender would not have a problem because they are still protected. There is no logical reason why any lender would object to you not selling your shitcoin.

If you are saying that you cannot have the escrow sell the shitcoin if the price has risen because it is not a term listed in the OP then why don't you add it to the OP? No lender is going to not lend to you because you have this clause.

You are creating "risks" for yourself because you want to be able to argue that you should be able to get a larger loan then what your shitcoin will support.

Because I have ever asked the escrow to sell the collateral that's not even in my possession. Because I can ever make such a request when something is bound with a loan.

Because such a term is there in the OP (no, it isn't).

What, now every escrow myself and my lending party agrees on is somehow in my own pocket?

I like how you make up scenarios that doesn't exist with anyone and pretend it's a real story

I also like how you don't understand what a 'risk' is when you have been told what it means numerous times.

Go whine for dread pirate roberts or something you seem to think on the same wavelength.


Post modern college education seems effective at turning out kids who forget their place.

This bitch LOL

Why don't I ask again. What risks are you taking in giving up your NOBL as collateral? You are able to have the shitcoin sold if the price changes to a level that you want to sell it at.

In theory you could claim the escrow could run away with your shitcoin however looking at the trading volume of your coin it would be difficult for them to sell it for bitcoin.

If you cannot come up with a risk that you are taking by giving up your shitcoin temporarily as collateral then you should admit that you were wrong on that point.

And now, we have a standard textbook example of 'mah rights' LOL

Typical entitled bitch who thinks they can define 'fair' 'balanced' 'valid' or best of them all, 'criticism'.


You may realize there are others giving feedbacks here whose words are well accepted over your own - particularly ones that do not presume to define these words based on their own pathetically transparent biases and spoiled attitude.

Did you just recently get out of college or something I did noticed kids these days have this kind of ridiculous mouth and thinks they are being 'critical thinkers'.

No fair as in how much risk is being put onto the lender. If your offer is really "fair" then why have the several lenders who have posted on here not taken you up on your offer?
Why don't you give some additional examples as to how your collateral (or you) would be at risk by giving it to an escrow to hold while the loan is outstanding? You are not allowed to say that you might not be able to sell it if the price changes because I have already proven you wrong here.
I don't see anyone coming in besides you to say that my points are not correct.
If you were to make a self moderated thread and deleted constructive criticism (like what I have said) then it would result in either a scam accusation opened against you or negative trust being sent to you. Just because your thread is self moderated does not mean that someone who has their posts deleted will not do anything about it.
I have a right to freely discuss the topic at issue. There is no reason why I should not refute your invalid points.

'Fair' in your terms is closely related with 'how much money I can make securely at the expense of the other side's slim benefit'. It's amusing to see how little you understand your arguments amount to just a bitchy whining trying to attain a better deal on your own terms, and your terms only

It's also amusing how you think forfeiture of potential profits and risk possibility of lender messing with the collateral market alone doesn't constitute a risk for the borrower who is giving out the collateral. That's only couple of numerous ways in which the collateral offering party is at risk. Maybe you don't understand the risk of borrowing with BTC when the last week or two alone have proven its value can tank very hard, very fast.
Maybe you haven't thought everything through before bitching and moaning in something which you are clearly not qualified to voice your 'opinions' about.

Of course you are way in over your head after leaving a half baked comment because internet forums allow any half wit bitch to voice his 'opinions' as if it is a 'valid criticism'. You also do not understand this does not shield you from being called out on your mouth when someone cares about their business enough to respond.

Of course, the fact that I made an open thread that isn't self-moderated makes you think you can get mouthy everywhere LOL

I see feedbacks, and then I see ones who just mouths off when they are clearly out of their place. and in over your head. Like you

If you get the message, then scram.

Just because I am a newer member does not mean that I am new to bitcoin nor that I have never dealt with anyone in real life.

Are you familiar how forums work? If someone is offering a trade that is not fair to all parties or all potential parties then someone will speak up.

Your offer is clearly not fair to a potential lender and you have shown that you are unwilling to to negotiate on key aspects of the loan that would protect the lender. Instead you make up arguments that are invalid as to how you are "at risk" when you are really not. 

I am very interested to know that jr.member with 'secondstrade' talking about 190% return and has an anonymous face can mouth off about what is a 'scam' or not, especially about a project where a developer has a public profile and is involved professionally with real money LOL

If you are trying to bitch, then get yourself a public profile and state your case.

If you find terms of a deal you are not even a part of to be disadvantageous to you, then feel free to keep your mouth where it belongs


Maybe you just wander around and stick your nose in a place where it doesn't belong, just to get mouthy on an internet forums. You have provided plenty of proof to that regard, and of course, no history of fair dealing on your part in anyway in the past either

They have been repaid because your noble (NOBL) aka scam coin has not crashed in value. Not because you have been honest.

You clearly are not able to handle any criticism.

You like to use buzz words to make your argument sound valid however it is not

Getting attitude out lol this bitch

I'd suggest you want a little attitude change done to you as well?

Don't worry, all 'suckers' have happily been paid back in full, as is the case with any agreement I make. I'd suggest you watch that mouth of yours if you can't back it up with something straight forward and decent on your own


Best you scram and bother another thread with your attitude if you have that much time to waste getting mouthy with little to back it up with.

I also think this quote from one of your older threads would be appropriate to repost here.


You seriously need an attitude adjustment

The reason it has taken so long every time to get your loan filled it is because you had to wait for a sucker to come across your request. The terms that you are offering are very one sided and the lender is not protected. It is insane to think that your reputation is worth 6.4 BTC so if the price of NOBL crashes then you will have no incentive to repay the loan. Any lender who is willing to lend the exact amount of money that the collateral is worth and is willing to not have the ability to sell the shitcoin if it falls below a certain level then they are asking to lose money.

I think the below quote really describes what will happen best:

I suppose you have nothing but semantics to turn to now that it's obvious you are just asking for better terms, not about discussing whether the loan is legitimate or not. You have poorly started an argument just because you found the terms to be not entirely in your profit

Every single loan offer I made in the past was as simple as they were stated, and never were there any conditions other than 'liquidation upon lack of payment by maturity date'. If a client asked for additional collateral due to market depression, such were discussed with the escrow on a case by case basis. I never used an escrow for trading in my place - and I find it amusing you think 'well this nets you more benefits' when you can't even comprehend if someone might just never have any intention of selling his collateral himself if he held it.

Not to mention, you are also questioning and presuming to know what others would do or prefer in this deal. The terms are greater then those I completed successfully before


Everything you are questioning is a matter of preference, none of which I practiced before. The terms are there, and it's not your place to question a validity of a loan off and keep dragging yourself across the floor on my ankle because you carelessly offered some 'why you no give me best deal and screw your own terms' kind of 'opinion'.

Lastly, are you really trying to mouth off about the last sentence there about 'free money'? Try not to be too transparent about just dragging this out for the sake of bitching eh?

You obviously can't take anything you try to dish out - it's obvious you have nothing to question about the terms, only that you don't like it being not completely to your advantage. If so, you are welcome to suggest as much in other loan threads.

Your complaints are noted by all who are reading this thread

Interest is paid to lenders for two reasons. One - to compensate them for their inability to use their funds during the time the loan is outstanding and two - to compensate them for the risk they are taking that they will lose money on the loan. The fact that no one has taken you up on your offer means that the interest rate you are offering is not high enough when considering the other terms of your loan.
All the escrow is going to do is follow instructions given to them that are agreed upon by both parties of a deal. You would obviously want to sell if the price rises enough, and there is no reason for the lender to object to the sale of your shitcoin as they would be better protected so there is no reason why the escrow would not be able to sell. I think you are playing dumb on this because it counters your argument that you are taking on risk as part of this deal.
Monthly average? You are joking right? No lender in their right mind would agree to allow you to wait an entire month to demand that you deposit additional collateral if the value falls below the amount of the loan.
It sounds like you are resorting to personal attacks in order to defend your position.
More personal attacks. In my experience personal attacks are usually received when the person receiving them are right.
Aren't you contradicting yourself here? You are saying there is no free money, yet you are claiming that the interest rate you are offering amounts to free money to the lender. As I mentioned above your interest rate is clearly not large enough to account for the risk a lender would be taking in making this loan

Anyone who says 30% interest is 'small' when the maturity term is less than 5 months certainly has no business discussing this. Obviously you are being just greedy to the point of ridicule now.

You also have no idea what using an escrow means in this situation. 'Direct them to sell'? 'Good for the lender'? Escrow does not deal in collaterals to buy and sell for the lender or the borrower. Collateral is released to the lender in the event I do not follow through with my side of the deal, and I likewise must follow through and repay the entire loan amount plus interest before I receive back my collateral. Otherwise, the collateral is held and locked down for the duration of the deal. That's the WHOLE POINT of the escrow. Most change or 'request' we would agree on is if I were to be required to add a bit extra on to the existing collateral in case the monthly avg. falls well below the borrowed value.

Do you not understand the basics of these deals, or are you just making up scenarios when you don't understand how a collateral works?

Your post sounds delusional and ignorant at best. If you want to mess around the forums, there are plenty of threads on the first page that are obvious for anyone to see. Unfortunately for you, there is no free money to be had in this offer for either side.

Aside from a rather large interest rate offer to the lender that is.

Yes I did read the OP. You are paying a small amount of interest which would essentially serve as a option premium to allow you to continue be able to repurchase the altcoin at a later date.
There is no reason why a lender would not agree to let the escrow agent sell the altcoin if it's value has increased, that would be just dumb. If the escrow agent were to sell the altcoin for bitcoin then the lender would be more secure and you would have locked in your profits. Everyone wins.
I don't see how the escrow selling the altcoin for bitcoin would not involve them being held accountable.
You would tell the escrow to sell the altcoin on an exchange at a certain price. It would be the same as if you were to input the order yourself however it would take longer to get the order to the exchange

Did you read the OP at all? Did you miss the bit about interest rates that are paid out every 30 days and amount to 30% of the entire principle by the end of the maturity period? I am already agreeing to pay more then what I have in terms of the value of the collateral if you missed that basic term of a loan offering.

Escrowed deal. As in, I have no control over collateral aside from terms with agree on when the time period begin and escrow receives the collaterals.

Escrow would be someone we both agree on, and all communications will be cc'd with respective parties. Who the hell would choose an escrow if he cannot be held accountable?

Interest is continuous paid out every 30 days - considering the quickness and volatility of the crypto markets, your argument can cut both ways.

Just what the hell are you talking about 'nothing to stop me from selling'? I don't think you know what you are arguing about. That's the whole point of an escrow - a trusted 3rd party member we both agree on and has control over the funds during the duration of the deal period under terms we both agree on.

So you are giving someone 6.4 BTC worth of some altcoin in exchange for 6.4 BTC with a promise to repay at a later date?

If the price of the collateral does not rise by the amount of interest due then you will simply default on the loan and run away with the lender's money.

With any kind of loan that is secured by collateral, the lender will ask for something that is worth more then the amount being lent both to give the borrower an incentive to repay and to properly secure their investment.

There would be nothing to stop you from selling the collateral if the price increases. You could direct the escrow agent to place a sell order and would continue to hold the proceeds until the loan is repaid.

'Selling' means you turn over your ownership completely in return for payment. I don't know how you think this is a valid comparison.

Collaterals are dealt according to the potential and benefits of the interested parties. The issue is the matter of volatility in crypto currency markets of course. In actual financial dealings 'in real life', such deals are common enough with both parties considering future and present market conditions. It is an investment as well - and each side negotiates details, plans, etc.

What of the risk that the offering party takes of missing a chance to actually sell that collateral at a higher value at later date while it is held in escrow for the loan? Why do you believe it is a legitimate argument to focus solely on the profits of others - without considering that offering party is also forfeiting potential profits as well in a deal such as this?

In this case your question boils down essentially to 'why do you deserve any kind of leeway in terms of risk', 'Why you no give me virtually free money' while maximizing lender potential profit and completely shutting out any space for the borrower. Consider how entitled such arguments sound.


This is a deal, not a charity cause. Each side weighs their benefits and risks and reaches a compromise. Let's be serious about this.

Why would anyone consider giving a loan using collateral equal to the exact amount of the loan? Isn't that essentially you selling the collateral while having the option to buy it back at a higher price in the future?

We will let the lender decide the risks and benefits, accounting for all the factors, fact being both sides are taking risks of some form or another. Once again, your advice is appreciated.

Updated further to account for market changes - all 6.4 BTC offer now up for lenders.

Collateral should be at the very minimum be worth 120% of the loan amount for established alt coins and more for newer (and less liquid alt coins). If you accept anything less then you will be at risk

Update: Loan amount and interest adjusted for recent price changes.

I hide nothing

Most importantly, the references indicate (aside from my trust feedbacks) my past history of fulfilling all deals no matter how big or small, regardless of difficulties. Those serve as a public proof of my dealings.

I consider other contents on those threads to be irrelevant (aside from mild amusement and/or their telling silence when my deals are concluded successfully).

Your point is noted

Why would you list this loan thread as a reference? Do you not see how unprofessional this makes you look?

A word to the wise, if you want to claim that your reputation is worth a lot on here then I would suggest that you not give a reference of you in a flame war with another user.

Rest assured, there are those who want to buy it cheaply

Since what the collateral is has been leaked.......the 24 hour volume of **** on bitter is ~1.6 BTC and it looks like there is similar 24 hour volume on other exchanges.

Looking at the order book on bitrex, polonex, and critpsy it doesn't look like there are even 7 BTC worth of bids across all the exchanges, let alone at the market rate.

tl;dr this seems a lot like an unsecured loan

Volatility goes both ways, and I think we can agree to disagree. Risk is there for both the lender and borrowers, both in terms of potential risk and benefits. I would be risking profit by having collateral tied up as well (if I pay it all back early, I would pay all the interest due no matter how much time remains).

Such is crypto scene as it is. I intend to follow through with everything, and every deal that are closed and repaid is all the more proof of my intentions. That is how I always operated, and I cannot fully make the terms beneficial for the borrower at the cost of putting myself at an unfair advantage.

Balance for all, no? Try to see it from another perspective.

If you are so doubtful, I would say you should try it out.

Saying you have much more to lose than X amount of BTC doesn't mean anything. As a lender, we always assume the worst and best case scenarios. In the worst, solid collateral that can be sold easily if need be (lender defaults or collateral price crashes) is required for a successful loan especially of this size and duration.

I don't know if you 'can' default anything when you deal square, but I hope you are more careful with such accusations.

Liquidation is off the table - I have much more to lose than 7 btc since people know my handle and everything is here for public view. Collateral has potential to go high low in blink of an eye - and liquidation for now is too risky and volatile an option.

According to last time he didn't want this to happen, so it could it mean he has a choice to default or not.

If the value of noble crashes he can default, if it spikes he just pays back the loan and takes the noble back (just a theory at the moment).

Collateral is the same as the last time I spoke via pm I can send you details again if you need, as well as the terms.

Interested in lending 0.5 -1 BTC. What collateral will you be providing and will we be able to liquidate the collateral once the value reaches a certain amount?

Maidak is someone I can agree upon. Let me search through my PMs to find the details.

Same that I pm'd you about. Collateral value is slightly below monthly market price avg, so should cover 7 btc easy.

As for the escrow, it's really anyone we can both agree on. I have used Maidak before, so we can go with him if you want. I suggested Rofo because of the public profile there if you checked the linkedin, twitter, and noblemovement website

Interested. Can you clarify who you are suggesting to use as escrow? You appear to have put a link to someone's profile with no trust (who obviously no one will agree to use).

What alt coin are you using for collateral this time around?

Amount: Total 5.7 btc loaned out - still receiving loan offer of any amount with below terms but will be uncollateralized if offered due to collaterals being 100% promised to current interested parties.

Duration: 150 days (about 5 months, can be paid back earlier depending on negotiations)

Repayment amount: Total of 30% interest + Principle. Every 30 days, I will pay out 6% interest, and principle will be fully repaid along with the last 6% interest payment after 150 days (about 5 months). 6% (every 30 days) X 5 = 30% interest for 150 days. 6.4 BTC + 1.92 BTC in 30% interest = total 8.32 btc repayment.

Essentially, 6% interest on the principle will be paid out to you every 30 days from the beginning of the loan, four times until 150 days are up (about 5 months) at which point all 6.4 btc + last 6% interest payment will be made, GMT.

Loan purpose: I am deeply involved in btc trades and also in the altcoin scene. My previous transactions in the trust category can speak for themselves.

You can check the previous threads here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=398293.0;all

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=430970.new#new

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=751645.0;all

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9389799


I can provide a collateral in a different coin to cover most of the loan at the current avg monthly market price, if that would ease your concerns due to this request being a relatively large amount. Escrow will be the one we both agree on that can be trusted to hold the collateral. I would prefer to ask this public escrow to hold the collateral:

Rofo (aka Jason L. Curby profile):

https://www.noblemovement.com/nobleescrow/

https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/rofo-198862

https://au.linkedin.com/pub/jason-curby/27/9b8/994

https://twitter.com/NobleCoin

Not some faceless anonymous escrow on btc talk, so I would trust him personally. We can discuss it further.



Also, you can say my collateral is my reputation not only on btc talk forum trading reputation, but also my crypto reputation in general (irc, twitter, other forums etc) since people i work with know my forum handle. I would like to state this just to make clear what I am proposing.

I reserve the right to pay everything back earlier (all 30% interest + principle).

Thank you for taking time to read this request - I have posted in several threads seeking a loan for similar conditions. Anyone who comes first will have priority in terms of negotiations.

Most terms are negotiable. PM me for details on the collateral.

Thank you in advance


Update: Loan amount adjusted to reflect the recent price changes.
Update #2: More adjustments to the terms, extended time period and loan amounts.
Update #3: ducatitalia reserved 4 btc with negotiated terms.
Update #4: lihuajkl reserved 1.7 btc with negotiated terms. Collateral completely promised. OP updated. Waiting on escrow.