Ordering from Bitmain, and value declaration. What's your experience?

MLX

newbie

Activity: 2

Merit: 0

Oh, and just don't fiddle with the invoices. Not worth it. Not even if you buy 100's of them.

With VAT claims, without sales, you will most certainly attract the sight of Tax bureau(regular/suspicious claims). They love it. Your accounting should be sound then.
If you can, claim it at customs as specialized computer/security device, not as a bitcoin miner. It will again attract unwanted attention.

MLX

newbie

Activity: 2

Merit: 0

It probably really depends on the jurisdiction.

In EU, you can write off VAT, even without subsequent sales. It just takes longer to retrieve VAT that way.
Depends on the period of VAT summary, you are registered for. It can be month or quarter or else(jurisdiction). Without sales it will take at least 2 of these periods for you to make legit claim for the VAT.
Lets say, you pay VAT monthly, no sales of mined coins or another goods.

1. Month = miners delivered=VAT paid to your customs or your customs agent. Monthly VAT summary, Government owe you VAT paid.

2. Month = government is expecting you to make sales, so they are not obliged to pay you back yet. They are waiting, holding bucks, as with eventual sales, you would just write the VAT off.
No sales=government still owns you VAT. At the end of the month, you make the VAT summary, and if according to results they still owe you VAT money, they are obliged to pay them sometime in the next month.

3. Month - You should get your money back(when during the month=jurisdiction). You may get them this month, or maybe the next month. It is still the government we talk about. They can do whatever they want. Germany/Netherlands should be smooth. Southern Europe states, God help you retrieving your VAT, if ever.

blickbox

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

Quote from: NotFuzzyWarm on October 19, 2017, 09:19:15 AM

Quote

3. Registering as a company makes no difference since I won't have any taxable sales I can write it off against.

Sales, no.
However since you are mining for profit - and business profits are taxed - that is where write offs come in. In the US at least, the miners are Capital Equipment required for the business. In fact the IRS views them the same as any other computer or data server so they are write offs along with any import duties.

I think you're mixing VAT with normal income/profit taxes (I was probably not clear). When importing I have to pay 25% VAT + some small taxes. VAT is not possible to write off unless I have sales with VAT added. E.g, I have to pay $1000 import VAT for two miners. To write it off, I need to have sales to consumers for e.g. 4000 + 25% VAT ($1000).

If it was just normal income tax, I could write it off against the profit tax I have to pay.

NotFuzzyWarm

legendary

Activity: 3822

Merit: 2703

Evil beware: We have waffles!

Quote

3. Registering as a company makes no difference since I won't have any taxable sales I can write it off against.

Sales, no.
However since you are mining for profit - and business profits are taxed - that is where write offs come in. In the US at least, the miners are Capital Equipment required for the business. In fact the IRS views them the same as any other computer or data server so they are write offs along with any import duties.

blickbox

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

Quote from: NotFuzzyWarm on October 19, 2017, 07:34:01 AM

NO company will do that because if caught they face heavy fines and/or are banned from importing to that country.

1. I am aware of the legality issue, it was just a question.
2. Most chinese companies selling to consumer do that yes, even without you asking them.
3. Registering as a company makes no difference since I won't have any taxable sales I can write it off against.

I wouldn't have a problem if the hardware was a safe long lasting product, with a definitive value, but who knows what the value of the purchase is. It's like paying VAT for the possible winning price of a lottery ticket, instead of the price of the ticket itself. But again, this is off topic. My question is what people's experience is.

sluppy

legendary

Activity: 2020

Merit: 1041

Quote from: NotFuzzyWarm on October 19, 2017, 07:34:01 AM

Folks, are you a criminal at heart?
That would be the only reason to ask a company to show a lower invoice price so you can avoid paying taxes/duty. Pay the damn taxes/duty. Mining is a business. Register as one and import taxes/duty becomes a write off.

NO company will do that because if caught they face heavy fines and/or are banned from importing to that country.

Bikal miners does that and eastshore also does something similar but if u get caught u lose big time , NOT worth it imo.

NotFuzzyWarm

legendary

Activity: 3822

Merit: 2703

Evil beware: We have waffles!

Folks, are you a criminal at heart?
That would be the only reason to ask a company to show a lower invoice price so you can avoid paying taxes/duty. Pay the damn taxes/duty. Mining is a business. Register as one and import taxes/duty becomes a write off.

NO company will do that because if caught they face heavy fines and/or are banned from importing to that country.

blickbox

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

It says on their website that they will declare the actual invoice value when shipping. Is that something they just write, or is that something they actually do, without any exceptions?

Anyone have any luck getting their miners with a lower invoice value declared?

Import taxes and fees would add about 30% on the price for me, so it's a dealbreaker for me... :-/

Topic: Ordering from Bitmain, and value declaration. What's your experience? (Read 611 times)