Topic: P2P E-mail [Decentralization of email services] (Read 246 times)

Some questions from you.
Precisely, as I said, I'm working on this project, which is in every way embryonic, that is, although there is a horizon it is still somewhat blurred.

1) Does this system use blockchain? No, the system does not use blockchain for a number of factors that are quite obvious, but include size, speed and load. But it uses a seeded block system.

2) Why use that, it's not the same as self-hosted email? No, they are obviously different things, while self-hosted email makes you the owner of an email hosted by you, but still being subject to government sanctions and with problems regarding centralization, the proposal uses the opposite concept, preventing centralization and distributing responsibility across the network, that is, even if sanctions are intended, they will not be directed at you. And this is also a reason to use it.

3) Will it be paid? No, although I thought about a bitcoin-based monetization system, for those who allocate more data and make more upload available on the network, it's still something that needs to be discussed, of course the incentives for the biggest node maintainers are really important to the life of the project.

4) How is it secure and anonymous with data transiting a network of nodes?
It basically uses a public and private key hashing and cryptography system. In a simple way, when you type your email in the client layer (application) it performs the hash treatment, therefore, when it arrives at the destination, it is only displayed that a given hash sent encrypted bytes to another hash, even you, if you want to get a response you need to include your email in the body of the message otherwise you will be anonymous.
Example:
[[email protected]] --> Hash function --> [b1a64fcd7d3f97a0836e9cbcde0c7e7248b405a30bc02ba0350980789e918107]

Txt:[U2FsdGVkX19Rcwubs10541HUZIGJZvKaD7pdTOELTYCQ1aOzZvmk6vm2G4f3YdkS]

To: [[email protected]] --> hash function -->
[3bf80ffa4aa11c5292556c4d03a322873d8d757a887069e40ef71a556b26374e]

I hope you understand.

5) Who was it designed for? For all those who want to be able to send and receive emails in a decentralized way without having to rely on large platforms. For those who understand and believe that anonymity and privacy are not bad things or cybercriminals, but those who want to preserve their well-being and freedom.

6) What are the real problems with the system so far?
Allocation, when you send a text or it is quantified and saved, usually text without emojis or with special characters, they tend to have little bytes when they do not exceed a limit, the problem is when millions or billions of people transit information on the network even if in bytes . That is, if a significant number of users are sending a significant number of bytes, it is likely that in a short time, your system will reach a number close to terabytes of information, something that started with small bytes. And this problem tends to increase if nothing is done, this is one of the problems that Satoshi solved in the infinity tail of the blockchain.
So the pruning of some blocks in the system I'm proposing is something I'm looking into.

I hope that any of your queries have been answered. I'm going to work on this system and when I have something more solid I'll start a new discussion with more information about the project. Maybe I should really create a forum just for this.
Those who want more information or are interested in being part of this project, please contact me.

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Utopia is not open-source. I wouldn't recommend using a software that includes sensitive information, encryption and cryptography etc., that is closed-source. This is how they explain their reasoning:

Basically, it's a product, not a free software. So I'd avoid it as much as possible, especially when alternative software like Briar exist.

I just came across this. You might want to check this as it has a decentralized email service in it's software.
https://utopian.is/readme/

Can you share us the article you read? It makes no sense to me on how that would work in practice. The only way to have decentralization in SMTP, is to have each user separately running their own email server. Which, to be done trustlessly, requires each user to have a computer in their home running non-stop, 24/7 some kind of mail server software. Which isn't practical for obvious reasons.

Also, read this: The Death of Decentralized Email.

The realization of smart contracts is still being studied. Fact is, people tend to just use the email service in the conventional way. As for doing it locally, it can be done but it is not so safe, imagine that you can lose access to your computer, and it goes offline from the entire network, it is better that the entire network knows about the consensus of sending x bytes of encrypted data for a given hash, once certain conditions are met. Even if your computer is totally unusable, the email will be sent by some network node.

PS
The criticisms made are valid and accepted, this system must be robust and the community understands the need for this, as well as the need for privacy and anonymity. I'm interested in discussing the system further with you.

Your concern is valid, but the proposed system is not deliberately open, the only real information nodes have is that a hash is sending or requesting a packet of encrypted bytes.
Decentralized E-mails are essential in terms of censorship and individual control, in addition the proposed system is legitimately anonymous, you don't want to know the e-mail address of a given sender, unless he informs it in the body of the message. Especially because it is similar to the concept of sending Hash to Hash, in which each "E-mail" is treated at the client layer.

This sounds a lot like centralization that we've seen in many of the Proof of anything-but-work algorithms where the developer decides who runs a "seed" or "witness" node that decides which transaction to go through and which doesn't.

The first case can not be enforced globally (someone can decide to store a copy) and the second case should be enforced locally meaning the user's client has to send the email itself not a third party having the content of the email!

P.S. Regardless of my criticism I'm curious to read the details of the project you have in mind.

The question is

Why would anyone want to verify the other's email ?

In case of bitcoin, since it was a payment it was mandatory to be verified but in case of emails I don't think everyone should care to verify it.
So the " need for decentralized emails" is not really there in my perspective. It's something that should be kept private since we receive OTPs and other personal info in our emails.

What do you think?

Yes, some solutions already exist, however, they are not simple and neither follow the path of decentralization.
Utopia P2P is a messaging system, very close to Telegram. Do you realize how different ideas are although they share close ideals?
PGP really proved to be something important and functional, however, keeping and saving huge check keys and replacing them after some period is quite problematic. Also, although PGP can encrypt your messages, it does not make you anonymous.

Sorry, I don't understand how developers can use only the result of a one-way hash as a benefit. Also, it's not like everything is thrown clean in a decentralized database, there are keys and treatments done by the network itself.
No accounts, just hash.

In fact, blockchain in this project may not be the most suitable. And that's why I don't intend to use this system, but something like it.
We could say that it is more like a seed block, what maintains the network are the seeders, in this case each node.

There are countless advantages of a decentralized email service that runs smart contracts, obligations that the system must follow based on a script. Yes, something similar.
An example would be:

[João]: Send an e-mail to Roberto, the e-mail must be deleted from the entire network after X time.
or
[Robert]: Schedule an email to be sent if and when certain conditions are met.

As I mentioned, they are very similar to cryptocurrencies, but focused exclusively on transmitting and sending data.

Effective solutions already exist, don't they?

For example, if you use PGP for your correspondence, you're already protecting your data, and you don't have to worry about self-hosting. What's more, PGP has long since proved its worth.

You can also take a look at P2P Utopia project, which has an encrypted messaging system integrated on its own network. The project is fairly new, but it's still too recent for us to have enough feedbacks on its real effectiveness in terms of data protection.

I sincerely believe that PGP is a simple, effective solution that solves all the potential problems associated with privacy and private data for e-mail exchanges.

IMHO, I don't see why there's an essence of being decentralized in email services. It all ends up that there will always be the server to handle all of those messages and things that's inside an emailing service. Much better to keep it as is and it's gonna complicate the users.
So from there, there's still central authority that will handle all of these emails and will be kept and stored into a database where the developers gonna use it and for sure they'll still have access on it. That defeats the thought of it being decentralized.

The moment you consider using blockchain for projects like E-mail or social media is the moment they fall apart. I generally see two problems
- First is the fact that decentralized blockchain is a public ledger and should be stored and verified by every peer. In a payment system like bitcoin it makes some sense to do it specially since there is incentive, however it makes no sense to store everyone else's emails in your node or even relay their emails to propagate it through the network!
- Second is the way you would want to secure this chain. Any algorithm you use needs people to have an incentive to contribute to its securing, an E-mail service can not have incentive like a payment system (ie. pay to send email) or it becomes less attractive to use.
As a bonus issue: it is going to be impossible to prevent spam.

A P2P chat like messaging system is different though, it needs no "chain" and it is much easier to build and make decentralized.

Why would an email need to execute smart contracts?

No!
Self-hosted email servers serve a different purpose as hard disk encryption serves another purpose (encrypt your data) however what I propose serves exclusively those who cannot maintain or have their own email server , or even use encryption on your hard drive, and even if they do, accessing your email from any device connected to the internet is a whole different thing from having to access your hard drive.
You could use a similar system, something like (My email server with disk encryption) but when sending the email to another user, what guarantees that it will remain secure?
But shall we think further? What can keep organizations away from their mailbox, and keep spam at bay? The decentralization of this service is important for those who depend on them, both for arguments, criticism and the use of freedom of expression. It's not about a personal email server, nor just the encryption of your hard drive, it's about a little more than that.
I'm working on the project's challenge and on its paper, I believe that the explanation will be better in the paper, as I will have help. I don't express myself as well as I'd like.
The system has a similar operation to the blockchain, however, with the challenge of allocating more data [emails] the operation should not depend on miners or fees, only on the connection between the nodes, using the no account, just hash 

"We only value freedom when we lose it"
"Proton"
https://proton.me/legal/transparency

"Google Privacy"
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-google-privacy-eu-exclusive-idUSKBN20D2M3

"Platforms"
https://blogs.microsoft.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/149/2018/02/Tech-Companies-Letter-of-Support-for-Senate-CLOUD-Act-020618.pdf

"Congress"
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/2383/text

"DHS"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michellefabio/2018/04/06/department-of-homeland-security-compiling-database-of-journalists-and-media-influencers/?sh=e1354d161218

"Freedom of the press"
https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2017/press-freedoms-dark-horizon

"Confession?"
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/14/google-gmail-users-privacy-email-lawsuit#:~:text=People%20sending%20email%20to%20any,said%20in%20a %20court%20filing.

Not everyone is using gmail type of services. Haven't you heard about self-hosted mail server? Additionally, you can use email encryption, hard drive encryption (LUKS) etc... Is this what you're trying to achieve?

I will prepare a paper to explain and exemplify better because I'm not that good with words. I don't think email services like Gmail provide data decentralization. In fact, their current service depends on centralization. Traditional email services have serious problems regarding data privacy, especially how the data is stored and cataloged. There have been many instances where email platforms have violated their data protection agreements at the request of governments or organizations. I believe that data protection policies hold up well until the data becomes too valuable to maintain the balance between value and cost of protection. The service I am proposing to the community prioritizes privacy and does not rely on trust alone; it utilizes encryption and a key.

CarnagexD, the system you described is interesting, and I had thought about a similar implementation based on the "Profitability through data quantification" fast shipping choice. However, I'm not sure how secure this platform is, so I will explore more secure connections in addition to TOR. I have noticed some issues with login verification using TOR on https://bitcointalk.org/.

Well I mean, isn't it gmail already decentralize type of thing? Like the system's already serves as the distributor but the messages and mails remain as P2P or user to user. Maybe, the integration of the the crypto can be added. There will also be a coin for the project that will serve as the payment for transaction cost for services like clearing spams, blocking ads, and access of unauthorized emails. Because if there is a sound purpose and real use of the project, then the project and it's coin value will appreciate along with btc price higher.

This sounds like a good project, but I would like to know how it works exactly. Does it provide more protection compared to regular email providers? I would appreciate more details about this project so we can determine if it could be truly great and worth looking into or not.

I do not understand the purpose of this post. If you are a developer of any P2P email, then tell us the site and details about the project, or are you saying that you got this idea from the decentralized nature of bitcoin and will be willing to build a decentralized Emailing system ?

Better write more details and share what you are trying to build, so that some of us may give you better ides and the pro and cons of the system which you have build in your mind.

P2P E-mail
Peer-to-peer decentralized email system.
I recently read an interesting article on this topic. I would like to discuss more with you shortly regarding the need for decentralization and the next step in Satoshi's legacy.

This service is definitely possible and has the ability to not only limit unauthorized access to your mailbox but also get rid of targeted emails and spam. Greater control of your data and a golden, reliable email that can execute smart contracts.

I will not use the same Nick or account.
Thank you and see you later.