[P50POT] a multi-player mathematical game, played with bitcoin

pfifty

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Quote from: pfifty on April 07, 2015, 05:20:48 PM

Announcing https://p50pot.com - a multi-player simple mathematical game, played with bitcoins.

2 months after announcing

Just wanted to share some statistics:

* ~10k unique page views.
* ~5000 rounds with at least one participant.
* ~2200 rounds with at least two participants.
* ~20 rounds with more than 10 participants: 355942, 355714, 355653, 355650, 355656, 355652, 354651, 355705, 356990, 349246, 351183, 355690, 355686, 351215, 355688, 355684, 351179, 356987, 355692, 355744.
* Larger wins to date in rounds: 355652, 355650, 351248, 351215, 355714, 355656.

If anyone interested in any other statistics I will gladly attempt to get it.

Thanks for all participants!

pfifty

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Activity: 34

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Quote from: nikona on April 07, 2015, 05:36:39 PM

Looks like a nice concept, but just a suggestion, might be a good idea to start a few free rounds, just to get people to get a hang of it. Also it seems the main requirement is it requires people on the site to play.

And I have a question about the fees system. It says 1 mbtc every 10 participants. So how is fees taken, say if 4 people play a round, and 6 play the second ? So is 0.0001 taken from each by default ?

Yes, it is 1mBTC per 10 participants per round. This is an exceptionally small fee. Consider https://p50pot.com/round.html?r=351248 for instance. My fee was less than 0.25%. Any other gambling site would take at least 1%.

pfifty

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Quote from: jorjito25 on April 08, 2015, 03:16:28 PM

Quote from: pfifty on April 08, 2015, 02:58:54 PM

Imagine each deposit is a book. The larger the deposit, the thicker the book.
Now, imagine we stack all the books back to back. The winner is the book in the middle.
So, if there's a thick book, it is more likely to occupy the center.
Lastly, each round is a different stack and a different winner.

It is pretty simple

Yes but, what is that occupy the center? The center of what?

The center of the stack. The winner is the book at the center of the stack.

Say you have 3 books, A is 400 pages, B is 100 pages and C is 200 pages. When you stack them, it looks like:

AAAABCC

To see who wins, you look at the exact center of the stack, here it is an A. So A is the winner.
It is the winner even though it's the first since it's also thicker and as such it occupies the center position within the stack.

I hope this clears out the uncertainty.

jorjito25

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Quote from: pfifty on April 08, 2015, 02:58:54 PM

Quote from: jorjito25 on April 08, 2015, 01:31:09 PM

I cant understand who wins?

Could someone explain to me like I was 3 years old?
Ty!

Imagine each deposit is a book. The larger the deposit, the thicker the book.
Now, imagine we stack all the books back to back. The winner is the book in the middle.
So, if there's a thick book, it is more likely to occupy the center.
Lastly, each round is a different stack and a different winner.

It is pretty simple

Yes but, what is that occupy the center? The center of what?

pfifty

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Activity: 34

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Quote from: jorjito25 on April 08, 2015, 01:31:09 PM

I cant understand who wins?

Could someone explain to me like I was 3 years old?
Ty!

Imagine each deposit is a book. The larger the deposit, the thicker the book.
Now, imagine we stack all the books back to back. The winner is the book in the middle.
So, if there's a thick book, it is more likely to occupy the center.
Lastly, each round is a different stack and a different winner.

It is pretty simple

jorjito25

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 500

I cant understand who wins?

Could someone explain to me like I was 3 years old?
Ty!

pfifty

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Quote from: pfifty on April 07, 2015, 06:20:46 PM

Quote from: leen93 on April 07, 2015, 06:18:06 PM

when a block is created it takes 2 minutes before something changes on your website, can you change that?
this will cause many people to still make a deposit, waste mining fees etc.

This is good feedback. Thanks you! I will look into this later today.

I have fixed this last evening. Leen93, is your address 199tyGZBogrRBSJ8mE6V9P4pSky6nVrgo8? I want to send you a gratitude bounty for finding this bug.

pfifty

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Quote from: leen93 on April 08, 2015, 09:51:05 AM

What happened?
The owner of this website (blockchain.info) has banned your IP address (-***).

this is fun, can't reach my bitcoins Roll Eyes

This is an issue related to blockchain.info and not p50pot.com. If you still can't access your funds, you might want to try using a different IP, e.g. to use your phone or a friend's computer. My understanding is that even when this ban is active, it would not last for a long time.

leen93

sr. member

Activity: 616

Merit: 250

What happened?
The owner of this website (blockchain.info) has banned your IP address (-***).

this is fun, can't reach my bitcoins Roll Eyes

leen93

sr. member

Activity: 616

Merit: 250

Quote from: pfifty on April 08, 2015, 01:55:07 AM

Quote from: leen93 on April 08, 2015, 01:05:54 AM

my winning https://blockchain.info/nl/tx/79fcf91fb79e5d0bbd9d63422ba7335388f0db18e69ebec532baea3a9a6dd141 Grin

This looks like the largest win to date, congratulation leen93 Cool

https://www.biteasy.com/blockchain/transactions/c073a785ebe820e9e4d9af6169f027d11f50df0dca23e941d26fe105bf05a26f

highest profit to date went up Cool

leen93

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Activity: 616

Merit: 250

nobody wants to play anymore?

30 min no new block

leen93

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no cheating it's surely not, everyone has indeed the same rules
but does someone know how you can choose your transaction id?

pfifty

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Activity: 34

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I have read the rules, but looks like players could cheating easily by send more bitcoin so his old transaction could in the middle & become the winner
Anyway, i have try with 0.004BTC Roll Eyes

I hope i'll win

Thank you for trying my service out

You can participate as many times as you want, even using the same address. Your 4mBTC did not win, but the round is still in progress- you should send more transactions if you want to win.

I am not sure I understand your claim that players can cheat. Since all participants are governed by the same set of rules, and anyone is allowed to send multiple transactions, no one gets an unfair advantage, and hence there can't be any cheating in the usual sense of the word.

pfifty

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Quote from: leen93 on April 08, 2015, 01:05:54 AM

my winning https://blockchain.info/nl/tx/79fcf91fb79e5d0bbd9d63422ba7335388f0db18e69ebec532baea3a9a6dd141 Grin

This looks like the largest win to date, congratulation leen93 Cool

leen93

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Activity: 616

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: pfifty on April 07, 2015, 11:29:30 PM

Spending all that computing time does not necessarily gives a real advantage.

Wouldn't the dominant strategy be along the lines of "Look at all the transactions you think will make it in, then create a txid that will land you on the median"? But the more iterations you do of that, the harder and harder it becomes to bisect that range. Even after only a small amount of iterations, it could become extremely computationally expensive to find a txid near the median, and then trying to move that mass to change the median could be rather expensive and suboptimal

how do you do that?

leen93

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Activity: 616

Merit: 250

my winning https://blockchain.info/nl/tx/79fcf91fb79e5d0bbd9d63422ba7335388f0db18e69ebec532baea3a9a6dd141 Grin

pfifty

newbie

Activity: 34

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: pfifty on April 07, 2015, 11:29:30 PM

Spending all that computing time does not necessarily gives a real advantage.

Wouldn't the dominant strategy be along the lines of "Look at all the transactions you think will make it in, then create a txid that will land you on the median"? But the more iterations you do of that, the harder and harder it becomes to bisect that range. Even after only a small amount of iterations, it could become extremely computationally expensive to find a txid near the median, and then trying to move that mass to change the median could be rather expensive and suboptimal

Since deposit size is capped, any two additional maximal deposits (both on the same side of the current median) are guaranteed to move it.

Rmcdermott927

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Very cool concept.

pfifty

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Fun idea, but most importantly great execution! Bravo.

With a quick script, it's it's extremely easy to "aim" your bet with with creating and discarding hundreds of thousands of transactions -- so that's going to make it pretty difficult for regular players using a normal wallet, who will scatter fire. And correct me if I'm wrong, but lets say I want to "aim" between txid A and B, I am better off not picking any random hash that happens to fall between them, but instead generate a huge set of them, and pick one that lies extremely close to either A or B. That is, so it would be extremely computationally difficult for someone to intersect my bet and A and B. Which would mean, with optimal software the game would favor people who can generate a large amount of tx's/second.

Anyway, love what you've done. Glad to see some fresh thinking on the scene =)

Wow, thanks you so much for the complement!

Your close-to-A idea is interesting, I must confess I did not think of that, but still, an opponent could just as easily send a couple of transactions to shift the balance away from that previous center. Spending all that computing time does not necessarily gives a real advantage.

pfifty

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Quote from: bitllionaire on April 07, 2015, 09:30:33 PM

nice match(didn't win) I did what I could,but tournament said the first prize was 10,what does that mean in bitcoin?

All amount are in bitcoin. Which round did you participate in? Was is #351182 by any chance?

bitllionaire

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nice match(didn't win) I did what I could,but tournament said the first prize was 10,what does that mean in bitcoin?

ticoti

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Merit: 1000

Quote from: pfifty on April 07, 2015, 07:22:13 PM

Quote from: ticoti on April 07, 2015, 07:18:52 PM

Quote from: pfifty on April 07, 2015, 07:11:28 PM

Quote from: ticoti on April 07, 2015, 07:07:32 PM

So, the round ends when the next block is mined?

is there any maximum bet limit? because if I go and bet 10 bitcoins or 100 then I will probably win...

Exactly, round ends when the next block was mined.

A single deposit is limited by 100mBTC, exactly for the the very reason you specified. A larger deposit will be automatically refunded.

So,what happens if two people bets 100mbtc? it's a draw? who wins?

Both wins, each collects half the pot. See https://p50pot.com/round.html?r=351176 for example.

Thank you so much! I understand it know, I may try it if I feel I can win Tongue

pfifty

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Quote from: ticoti on April 07, 2015, 07:18:52 PM

Quote from: pfifty on April 07, 2015, 07:11:28 PM

Quote from: ticoti on April 07, 2015, 07:07:32 PM

So, the round ends when the next block is mined?

is there any maximum bet limit? because if I go and bet 10 bitcoins or 100 then I will probably win...

Exactly, round ends when the next block was mined.

A single deposit is limited by 100mBTC, exactly for the the very reason you specified. A larger deposit will be automatically refunded.

So,what happens if two people bets 100mbtc? it's a draw? who wins?

Both wins, each collects half the pot. See https://p50pot.com/round.html?r=351176 for example.

ticoti

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Activity: 854

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Quote from: pfifty on April 07, 2015, 07:11:28 PM

Quote from: ticoti on April 07, 2015, 07:07:32 PM

So, the round ends when the next block is mined?

is there any maximum bet limit? because if I go and bet 10 bitcoins or 100 then I will probably win...

Exactly, round ends when the next block was mined.

A single deposit is limited by 100mBTC, exactly for the the very reason you specified. A larger deposit will be automatically refunded.

So,what happens if two people bets 100mbtc? it's a draw? who wins?

pfifty

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Quote from: ticoti on April 07, 2015, 07:07:32 PM

So, the round ends when the next block is mined?

is there any maximum bet limit? because if I go and bet 10 bitcoins or 100 then I will probably win...

Exactly, round ends when the next block was mined.

A single deposit is limited by 100mBTC, exactly for the the very reason you specified. A larger deposit will be automatically refunded.

Mist

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:)

I will go ahead and try this out, fairly new concept Grin

ticoti

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Quote from: pfifty on April 07, 2015, 07:01:22 PM

Quote from: ticoti on April 07, 2015, 06:53:29 PM

So, If you bet a large amount, you are more likely to win than if you bet a small amount. Have I understood it correctly?
It's not easy for me to get the way of playing Undecided

It is very open ended. If you deposit a large amount AND you're the only one doing so, then yes, this might increase your chance of winning. However, if another person is doing the same thing... then you lose your edge. A small deposit can then land between the two big ones, and win a hefty sum.

There's always a certain aspect of luck, no matter how smart you get. And there is always an aspect of strategy, no matter lucky your opponents are

I understand...

So, the round ends when the next block is mined?

is there any maximum bet limit? because if I go and bet 10 bitcoins or 100 then I will probably win...

pfifty

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Quote from: ticoti on April 07, 2015, 06:53:29 PM

So, If you bet a large amount, you are more likely to win than if you bet a small amount. Have I understood it correctly?
It's not easy for me to get the way of playing Undecided

It is very open ended. If you deposit a large amount AND you're the only one doing so, then yes, this might increase your chance of winning. However, if another person is doing the same thing... then you lose your edge. A small deposit can then land between the two big ones, and win a hefty sum.

There's always some amount of luck involved, no matter how smart you get. And there is always benefit in strategic thinking, no matter how lucky your opponents are

ticoti

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Activity: 854

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So, If you bet a large amount, you are more likely to win than if you bet a small amount. Have I understood it correctly?
It's not easy for me to get the way of playing Undecided

pfifty

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Quote from: leen93 on April 07, 2015, 06:25:22 PM

Quote from: pfifty on April 07, 2015, 06:22:31 PM

Quote from: leen93 on April 07, 2015, 06:18:53 PM

what happens when you send from more addresses?

Nothing special, use as many address as you'd like. Just keep in mind that prizes are sent back to the address which originated the deposit, so always use an address you control yourself (no web wallets).

i mean when you send from more addresses in 1 tx id
i mean address A and B send 0.001 btc to address C in 1 transaction for example
this is what sometimes happens when you have more wallets and use for example blockchain.info

Assuming address C in your example is the rounds target address, the prize (or refund) will be sent to either A or B, whichever is the first one in the transaction's inputs.

leen93

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Activity: 616

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Quote from: pfifty on April 07, 2015, 06:22:31 PM

Quote from: leen93 on April 07, 2015, 06:18:53 PM

what happens when you send from more addresses?

Nothing special, use as many address as you'd like. Just keep in mind that prizes are sent back to the address which originated the deposit, so always use an address you control yourself (no web wallets).

i mean when you send from more addresses in 1 tx id
i mean address A and B send 0.001 btc to address C in 1 transaction for example
this is what sometimes happens when you have more wallets and use for example blockchain.info

leen93

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Activity: 616

Merit: 250

Quote from: pfifty on April 07, 2015, 06:20:46 PM

Quote from: leen93 on April 07, 2015, 06:18:06 PM

when a block is created it takes 2 minutes before something changes on your website, can you change that?
this will cause many people to still make a deposit, waste mining fees etc.

This is good feedback. Thanks you! I will look into this later today.

ok thanks! for the rest the site looks perfect just sad from the max 100 mbtc Huh

i love whales

pfifty

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Quote from: leen93 on April 07, 2015, 06:18:53 PM

what happens when you send from more addresses?

Nothing special, use as many address as you'd like. Just keep in mind that prizes are sent back to the address which originated the deposit, so always use an address you control yourself (no web wallets).

pfifty

newbie

Activity: 34

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Quote from: leen93 on April 07, 2015, 06:18:06 PM

when a block is created it takes 2 minutes before something changes on your website, can you change that?
this will cause many people to still make a deposit, waste mining fees etc.

This is good feedback. Thanks you! I will look into this later today.

leen93

sr. member

Activity: 616

Merit: 250

what happens when you send from more addresses?

leen93

sr. member

Activity: 616

Merit: 250

when a block is created it takes 2 minutes before something changes on your website, can you change that?
this will cause many people to still make a deposit, waste mining fees etc.

pfifty

newbie

Activity: 34

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Quote from: leen93 on April 07, 2015, 06:07:49 PM

yes, there is not that much to calculate because almost never you are the last one and next people will wagger what they think is the best regarding their bet
a bot cannot beat it and it's fair since the same rules count for everyone
anyways my recent deposit (really small) doesn't show up
and is it max 100 mbtc per address/per person or per transaction id?

Once the transaction reach my server it will be shown with minimal latency. I do not control network propagation time. Consider increasing the bitcoin network fee to get a faster deposit or to increase the chance of a deposit being collected to the current block. For example, the last round (#351179) had a few deposits which did not make it into the block. A bigger network fee would have helped there.

The max is 100mBTC per deposit. You can deposit as many times as you want per round, as long as each deposit is under 100mBTC. If you deposit more, you'd be refunded automatically.

leen93

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Activity: 616

Merit: 250

yes, there is not that much to calculate because almost never you are the last one and next people will wagger what they think is the best regarding their bet
a bot cannot beat it and it's fair since the same rules count for everyone
anyways my recent deposit (really small) doesn't show up
and is it max 100 mbtc per address/per person or per transaction id?

pfifty

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Quote from: Snorek on April 07, 2015, 05:51:54 PM

I was interested at first but then I read this : "Bots are welcome." So if this is purely mathematical game and bots are allowed why humans (unless they are some genius level mathematics here) want to play this game. I am not a calculator after all.

There is really no way to prevent bots from participating. However, and that's the beauty of it, since the game is very open-ended, even a bot can be tricked by a human player. Like the move that leen93 just did. If his tx would be collected to the block, he'd be looking at a nice profit.

leen93

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Activity: 616

Merit: 250

018083e1f08eb4daa520...   1H7kJLJLGrxPJQrFbidGGUHP26brYKiy5L   0.00100000
04ef798ef6f034d99476...   1MxWdT75qy9FygHQhQuzmUwjvPuFDpeCmn   0.00200000
198dd8e7e1d27d847df7...   14ftZGCGecp8xm54cUK3o46pkbzy2iR9ss   0.00100000
2f4619604c386f7f2284...   16zEPsWNbKKKStWZHrxQMhhvMb8Lkg3VCp   0.00759000
7495ee66f021e92d81df...   1PrCwmhVYtSsQkYLAK5f1fdtTaYtLrMu2o   0.00200000   0.02559000   (Not final, round still in progress!)
97c46a54355ed698185e...   13kdpap6K6GxkCTkrRUiTBERcTmuKMEAFK   0.01300000

aargh who sent the last transaction? Cheesy

i had the profit

leen93

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Activity: 616

Merit: 250

Quote from: Snorek on April 07, 2015, 05:51:54 PM

I was interested at first but then I read this : "Bots are welcome." So if this is purely mathematical game and bots are allowed why humans (unless they are some genius level mathematics here) want to play this game. I am not a calculator after all.

you are placed by tx id which you cannot determine beforehand so it's still kinda lucky Cheesy

and there is a fee too and i doubt this game will continue to be active for long (although i wish, it's a nice idea), comparing it with other things which were only active for a while

Snorek

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I was interested at first but then I read this : "Bots are welcome." So if this is purely mathematical game and bots are allowed why humans (unless they are some genius level mathematics here) want to play this game. I am not a calculator after all.

pfifty

newbie

Activity: 34

Merit: 0

Quote from: ?? on ??

are you scamming me? Shocked

Sorting is done by transaction id and not by amount sent. Sorry if that is not obvious. If I was sorting by amounts, then there could be multiple winner and I did not want that.

Please, do look at all the previous rounds, all of them follow the same rule. This is certainly not a scam, very much on the contrary actually. The fee I'm collecting is a fraction of the hosting costs

And thanks for trying this out!

leen93

sr. member

Activity: 616

Merit: 250

thanks for the info! now i got the game
lost a lot because i understood it wrong but at least now i get it Grin

pfifty

newbie

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Quote from: leen93 on April 07, 2015, 05:32:44 PM

it's wrong
https://p50pot.com/current.html

profit should go to the 16... address right ?

The middle tx wins, and sorting is by tx id and not address.

Round is done now. Are you 16zEPsWNbKKKStWZHrxQMhhvMb8Lkg3VCp? If you had sent more than 0.00501000 you had a good chance of collecting the win.

nikona

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Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Looks like a nice concept, but just a suggestion, might be a good idea to start a few free rounds, just to get people to get a hang of it. Also it seems the main requirement is it requires people on the site to play.

And I have a question about the fees system. It says 1 mbtc every 10 participants. So how is fees taken, say if 4 people play a round, and 6 play the second ? So is 0.0001 taken from each by default ?

leen93

sr. member

Activity: 616

Merit: 250

it's wrong
https://p50pot.com/current.html

profit should go to the 16... address right ?
the last one is not ordered right

pfifty

newbie

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Quote from: leen93 on April 07, 2015, 05:26:04 PM

nice game! just sad nobody is playing otherwise i would do too Embarrassed

Thanks. There is definitely traffic, the game is on!

leen93

sr. member

Activity: 616

Merit: 250

nice game! just sad nobody is playing otherwise i would do too Embarrassed

pfifty

newbie

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Hi,

Announcing https://p50pot.com - a multi-player simple mathematical game, played with bitcoins.

This is not a gambling game as there is no randomization involved in this game. Winners are determined deterministically based on the game's rules.

You can still play randomly for fun, however employing a strategy is better on the average. Just keep in mind that there could be countermeasures for any strategy you use.

Bots are welcomed. PM me for API details.

Topic: [P50POT] a multi-player mathematical game, played with bitcoin (Read 1353 times)