paper wallet was stolen | Bitcointalksearch.org

larry_vw_1955

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Quote from: LoyceV on December 05, 2023, 02:49:17 AM

The money is literally waiting in a Bitcoin address.

it's certainly possible the private key has been lost.

Quote

That's the real tricky part indeed. You'll either have to find the exploit in the source, or find many more victims who claim the same thing.

there doesn't have to be any exploits in the source. if people are dumb enough to create their private keys online using some website then that website could be using legitimate software but just storing a copy for themself. that's all it would take. could never be proven. no exploit in the source. so the only way something could be proven is circumstantially in that alot of people claim the same thing and a judge buys their argument.

LoyceV

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Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on December 05, 2023, 12:48:58 AM

there's always the risk that the defendant is judgement proof.

The money is literally waiting in a Bitcoin address.

Quote

innocent until proven guilty and i would imagine it is not easy to prove.

That's the real tricky part indeed. You'll either have to find the exploit in the source, or find many more victims who claim the same thing.

larry_vw_1955

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Quote from: LoyceV on December 02, 2023, 02:37:34 AM

It's a long shot, but unless you want to go after the scam site owner on your own, it's the only chance to get back the coins.

if they live in the same country as you then you could bring a lawsuit against them i suppose. but lawsuits cost money. unless you are your own lawyer (small claims court?) and even then it would cost you money to file and maybe travel to the defendants jurisdiction. all over 1 bitcoin. and in small claims you can't get more than $5000 or so i heard. so you might have to settle for that. or be eaten alive by some lawyer. plus there's always the risk that the defendant is judgement proof. so you have to do some due diligence unless you just like wasting money.

no one is going to throw anyone in jail here in the usa because someone says someone stole their bitcoin. a court would have to make a determination on that. complaining to police is going to do zero except maybe be a scare tactic. innocent until proven guilty and i would imagine it is not easy to prove.

LoyceV

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Quote from: larry_vw_1955 on December 01, 2023, 06:58:03 PM

Quote from: LoyceV on December 01, 2023, 07:23:37 AM

Have you reported the theft to your local police, as suggested before? If they ever take down the owner of the site, it might be useful to have a paper trail.

does that really do any good?

It's a long shot, but unless you want to go after the scam site owner on your own, it's the only chance to get back the coins.

larry_vw_1955

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Quote from: LoyceV on December 01, 2023, 07:23:37 AM

I don't think it's lost. You used a (known) scam site to create a paper wallet. The site owner most likely has access, but it looks like he's just HODLing your coins. He's probably not in a rush to cash out, which might compromise his own identity (and get him caught).

or he might have just lost the private key.

Quote

Have you reported the theft to your local police, as suggested before? If they ever take down the owner of the site, it might be useful to have a paper trail.

does that really do any good? local police are more concerned with homicides and things like that. and generating revenue for the department through writing tickets. and throwing people in jail. (locals). busting people for drugs stuff like that.

LoyceV

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Quote from: jorro-ts on December 01, 2023, 06:20:20 AM

i just came back to say that my single bitcoin is still on that transferred adress. No one touched it since 2019 and i have a feeling it is lost for humanity

I don't think it's lost. You used a (known) scam site to create a paper wallet. The site owner most likely has access, but it looks like he's just HODLing your coins. He's probably not in a rush to cash out, which might compromise his own identity (and get him caught).

Have you reported the theft to your local police, as suggested before? If they ever take down the owner of the site, it might be useful to have a paper trail.

nc50lc

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Quote from: jorro-ts on December 01, 2023, 06:20:20 AM

hEEEEEEY Everyone! is this forum is still alive actually? i just came back to say that my single bitcoin is still on that transferred adress. No one touched it since 2019 and i have a feeling it is lost for humanity

The forum is very much active, it's just there's no known solution and there is nothing else to add to this thread.
Unfortunately, even the developers cannot help you with recovering the allegedly stolen bitcoins.

jorro-ts

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hEEEEEEY Everyone! is this forum is still alive actually? i just came back to say that my single bitcoin is still on that transferred adress. No one touched it since 2019 and i have a feeling it is lost for humanity

hZti:new

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In my opinion it is impossible that somebody stole your BTC if you generate an address offline and then reset the computer before going online again. Or am I missing here something?
The only option I could think of is a fake software that gives you a preset public/private key that the scammer already knows before. But that also doesn't seem likely since there are no reports of more of these incidents on this website.

So maybe you accidentally swept the wallet while try to check for the balance?

nc50lc

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Quote from: jorro-ts on April 18, 2022, 09:07:42 AM

-snip- what if you sweep it?

Others call it "import" but instead of import, "sweep" will automatically send the funds to one of the wallet's address.

Or the other way to read it?:

Quote from: jorro-ts on April 18, 2022, 09:07:42 AM

Quote from: nc50lc on April 17, 2022, 10:09:02 PM

BTW, Bitcoin is non-custodial and decentralized - your funds is in your control and there's no central authority that manages bitcoins.
So, even the developers can't refund your bitcoins.

i havent touched it since i made a transfer to the adress.
but jokes aside, what if you sweep it?

Everyone who told you that it's not recoverable is a suspect, eh? :-X
With that reply, I think you get that I'm considering a possibility that the actual issue is: you might have sent it accidentally to an unrecoverable address and looking for some sort of Bitcoin "authority" to refund it.
If not, then the second and third posts are still the best answers.

jorro-ts

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Quote from: nc50lc on April 17, 2022, 10:09:02 PM

Quote from: jorro-ts on April 17, 2022, 10:12:37 AM

Here after 2 years, and still no activity on frauds adress Cry

Looks like the culprit is a dedicated (stolen) BTC hodler, probably waiting for bitcoin to reach the moon.

Jokes aside, have you ever tried to "sweep" it to another wallet?
Because that's one way that it could be sent to another address which belongs to the wallet where you perform sweep.

BTW, Bitcoin is non-custodial and decentralized - your funds is in your control and there's no central authority that manages bitcoins.
So, even the developers can't refund your bitcoins.

i havent touched it since i made a transfer to the adress.
but jokes aside, what if you sweep it?

larry_vw_1955

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so in december 2018, he transfers 1 btc to a paper wallet. then 6 months later, it is transferred out to another address.

you have to be careful about how you create bitcoin addresses especially if it involves sums as large as 1 btc. Shocked

you also have to be careful about how you store your private key. either of those could be the reason he list his bitcoin.

the person that stole it might not need the money and maybe have put it on the backburner for a while. not unheard of.

nc50lc

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Quote from: jorro-ts on April 17, 2022, 10:12:37 AM

Here after 2 years, and still no activity on frauds adress :'(

Looks like the culprit is a dedicated (stolen) BTC hodler, probably waiting for bitcoin to reach the moon.

Jokes aside, have you ever tried to "sweep" it to another wallet?
Because that's one way that it could be sent to another address which belongs to the wallet where you perform sweep.

BTW, Bitcoin is non-custodial and decentralized - your funds is in your control and there's no central authority that manages bitcoins.
So, even the developers can't refund your bitcoins.

jorro-ts

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Here after 2 years, and still no activity on frauds adress Cry

nc50lc

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Quote from: Chlotide on December 19, 2020, 03:33:03 PM

Quote from: jorro-ts on December 19, 2020, 12:44:16 PM

btc is 24000 and my precious siongle one is still untouched
crying

Which address is yours after all?
1CtmmUkxEbQ8nsa2XFSKy7bo5XmBxYFP5n or 16D87eBeWvMAghsDaJYAo8QKo3GfFpsTe2

If you've read the entire thread, it's 1CtmmUkxEbQ8nsa2XFSKy7bo5XmBxYFP5n
and he's wondering why the owner of 16D87eBeWvMAghsDaJYAo8QKo3GfFpsTe2 never spent it even though BTC reached $24,000 price.

@Chlotide No one can tell what's happening unless that address is written somewhere on an online account or user, because it's only used to receive once.

Chlotide

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Quote from: jorro-ts on December 19, 2020, 12:44:16 PM

btc is 24000 and my precious siongle one is still untouched
crying

Which address is yours after all?
1CtmmUkxEbQ8nsa2XFSKy7bo5XmBxYFP5n or 16D87eBeWvMAghsDaJYAo8QKo3GfFpsTe2

Btw, seems that website was a bad pick.
https://www.coindesk.com/researcher-discovers-serious-vulnerability-in-paper-crypto-wallet-website
Surprised funds still there

jorro-ts

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btc is 24000 and my precious siongle one is still untouched
crying

calkob

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Quote from: dende93 on July 20, 2019, 03:46:12 AM

Quote from: AdolfinWolf on July 19, 2019, 05:22:35 AM

Quote from: dende93 on July 19, 2019, 04:00:51 AM

Perhaps it would be useful to set a time lock to prevent someone from spending your coins before you want. Could the attacker come to know it and get around this obstacle?

If he has the private key, he can simply sign another transaction without locktime and broadcast that one instead.. ?

I don't know of any wallets that lock "adresses" or private keys rather, from spending funds, as that's just not possible, AFAIK.
(Since the attacker could simply export the private key into his own wallet & broadcast.)

What I thought was a way to freeze a specific tx, not the private key, in the OP's case blocking the 1 btc transaction he made from being spent.
I don't know if it's possible or if it ever will be, I'm willing to learn.

If this could ever be done then the Bitcoin project would be over, Censorship resistance is one of Bitcoins main qualities if not the main one.

AppliedOptimal

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Quote from: Chris! on July 13, 2019, 02:34:38 PM

@OP I can teach you how to properly secure your funds. We can do it here or if you'd like you can PM me.

Paper wallets can be the absolute best option for long term storage if you do it right. Hardware wallets, however, constantly have vulnerabilities found out. Don't believe me. Go ahead and Google "hardware wallet vulnerability". You'll notice that the vulnerabilities have come out over many years and fresh ones have just been found out. They're obviously not properly tested, other than of course the general public buying them and reporting vulnerabilities.

Don't blindly trust third parties (hardware wallet manufacturers) because of this mishap. Learn from it, change your method accordingly and sleep easy knowing you'll never have to worry about your funds being stolen again.

I think the problem stems from the bad site the paper wallet was generated on. So, as long as the site is trustworthy or the person just uses the original GitHub code, it should be safe.
I agree with Chris that trusting a third party is risky. Let's say something happened to your hardware wallet, you lost it, dropped it in the Ocean, crushed it with your car, use your imagination. You buy another one and use the same pin? Well, if the hardware wallet company went out of business, you are screwed.
Trusting a third party is against the very soul of decentralization, I don't understand why people keep pushing hardware wallets.

Lucius

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jorro-ts, it is possible that whoever came into possession of your coins does not know how to cash them safely, or it is someone who has a large amount of coins and is simply waiting for the price to go up. In most cases, things like this don't happen, so it's a little weird that the coins haven't moved yet.

If you haven't already, report that address to all most popular crypto exchanges, so if hacker is not smart and send directly to some exchange, you have at least some chance of getting back your coins. The problem will certainly be to prove that the coins were stolen, signing the message from hacked address doesn't make any sense because the private key is compromised.

jorro-ts

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still no transaction occurs from the stolen adress wallet...

Rath_

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Quote from: AdolfinWolf on July 20, 2019, 11:12:09 AM

Really interesting, but still a rather "useless" security protocol if your private key has already been compromised. The thief could wait the blocktime out, and you wouldn't even know you were compromised until he broadcasts the redeemscript.

It's still a good security enhancement if you realise that your wallet is compromised. It gives the victim some time to react. There is no other effective method of defense if the key is compromised. The only thing that comes to my mind is a multisig setup but that's more complex and needs to be prepared properly before the attack.

AdolfinWolf

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Quote from: Rath_ on July 20, 2019, 05:15:54 AM

Quote from: AdolfinWolf on July 19, 2019, 05:22:35 AM

If he has the private key, he can simply sign another transaction without locktime and broadcast that one instead.. ?

Quote from: dende93 on July 20, 2019, 03:46:12 AM

What I thought was a way to freeze a specific tx, not the private key, in the OP's case blocking the 1 btc transaction he made from being spent.

It is possible to create a time-locked address from which no one will be able to spend before a specific date or block height is reached. It looks like only Coinb.in supports this feature. Take a look at this guide or read TryNinja's TL;DR.

Really interesting, but still a rather "useless" security protocol if your private key has already been compromised. The thief could wait the blocktime out, and you wouldn't even know you were compromised until he broadcasts the redeemscript.

Rath_

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Quote from: AdolfinWolf on July 19, 2019, 05:22:35 AM

If he has the private key, he can simply sign another transaction without locktime and broadcast that one instead.. ?

Quote from: dende93 on July 20, 2019, 03:46:12 AM

What I thought was a way to freeze a specific tx, not the private key, in the OP's case blocking the 1 btc transaction he made from being spent.

It is possible to create a time-locked address from which no one will be able to spend before a specific date or block height is reached. It looks like only Coinb.in supports this feature. Take a look at this guide or read TryNinja's TL;DR.

dende93

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Quote from: AdolfinWolf on July 19, 2019, 05:22:35 AM

Quote from: dende93 on July 19, 2019, 04:00:51 AM

Perhaps it would be useful to set a time lock to prevent someone from spending your coins before you want. Could the attacker come to know it and get around this obstacle?

If he has the private key, he can simply sign another transaction without locktime and broadcast that one instead.. ?

I don't know of any wallets that lock "adresses" or private keys rather, from spending funds, as that's just not possible, AFAIK.
(Since the attacker could simply export the private key into his own wallet & broadcast.)

What I thought was a way to freeze a specific tx, not the private key, in the OP's case blocking the 1 btc transaction he made from being spent.
I don't know if it's possible or if it ever will be, I'm willing to learn.

LoyceV

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Quote from: Stedsm on July 19, 2019, 05:19:39 PM

Quote from: jorro-ts on July 19, 2019, 05:08:52 PM

well, the wallet is still untouched. Just a single transaction. Why do they not withdrawed it so far?Maybe thief has died?lol

If the wallet is still untouched and the coins are there without being moved, you may had the chance to get back your coins if you'd have stored your privkey somewhere else as a backup instead of just relying on that paper thing.

OP still has his paper wallet, it's just empty. The coins are unspent in the thiefs wallet.

Stedsm

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Quote from: jorro-ts on July 19, 2019, 05:08:52 PM

well, the wallet is still untouched. Just a single transaction. Why do they not withdrawed it so far?Maybe thief has died?lol

If the wallet is still untouched and the coins are there without being moved, you may had the chance to get back your coins if you'd have stored your privkey somewhere else as a backup instead of just relying on that paper thing.

Maybe you forgot where did you leave your wallet? Why not have a brief checklist to check it almost everywhere on that list before you declare it as "stolen"? Stories of paper generation issues are also being screamed out nowadays that BTC is gaining traction, the only thing I'd advise is to generate a paper wallet offline (cut any connections to the internet while generating it/them) even on the most trusted sites, so at least you'd be safe just in case the website goes the wrong way! Just a question:

Why didn't you create a paper wallet by getting a wallet (maybe Electrum, maybe Bitcoin core), using an address out of it, storing your coins there and writing it down directly on a paper? It'd have definitely saved you from the hustle and your 1 BTC too.

jorro-ts

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well, the wallet is still untouched. Just a single transaction. Why do they not withdrawed it so far?Maybe thief has died?lol

bitmover

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Quote from: Lucius on July 14, 2019, 05:58:08 AM

For some reason you are against hardware wallets, but if OP is using one we would not have this thread and he would still have 1 BTC.

In the end, that is all that matters.
Ledger nano S costs now about 60 USD, or 0,006 btc (can't see the price in USD, only in my local fiat, but the conversion is close to that). A very small investment for some peace of mind.

I see no problem in paying trusted professionals to deal with security of my private keys (while I am the only one who holds them). I am not a pro and I am more likely to make a mistake than ledger professionals.

AdolfinWolf

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Quote from: dende93 on July 19, 2019, 04:00:51 AM

Perhaps it would be useful to set a time lock to prevent someone from spending your coins before you want. Could the attacker come to know it and get around this obstacle?

If he has the private key, he can simply sign another transaction without locktime and broadcast that one instead.. ?

I don't know of any wallets that lock "adresses" or private keys rather, from spending funds, as that's just not possible, AFAIK.
(Since the attacker could simply export the private key into his own wallet & broadcast.)

dende93

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Quote from: LoyceV on July 19, 2019, 03:33:08 AM

Quote from: dende93 on July 19, 2019, 03:30:27 AM

Would he have avoided theft by doing so?

Encryption doesn't help if the thief knows the private key already.

yeah that's what I thought, it's obvious. I made some paper wallet too but not on walletgenerator.net, with the intention of keeping them 10 years. I would not bear such a loss easily.
Perhaps it would be useful to set a time lock to prevent someone from spending your coins before you want. Could the attacker come to know it and get around this obstacle?

LoyceV

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Quote from: dende93 on July 19, 2019, 03:30:27 AM

Would he have avoided theft by doing so?

Encryption doesn't help if the thief knows the private key already.

dende93

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Really sorry for your loss. Just one question for you, have you encrypted it with bip38?
Would he have avoided theft by doing so?

Lucius

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Quote from: Chris! on July 13, 2019, 02:34:38 PM

@OP I can teach you how to properly secure your funds. We can do it here or if you'd like you can PM me.

Paper wallets can be the absolute best option for long term storage if you do it right. Hardware wallets, however, constantly have vulnerabilities found out. Don't believe me. Go ahead and Google "hardware wallet vulnerability". You'll notice that the vulnerabilities have come out over many years and fresh ones have just been found out. They're obviously not properly tested, other than of course the general public buying them and reporting vulnerabilities.

Don't blindly trust third parties (hardware wallet manufacturers) because of this mishap. Learn from it, change your method accordingly and sleep easy knowing you'll never have to worry about your funds being stolen again.

Show me one example where the user lost funds due to any detected vulnerability in any hardware wallet? Most of these vulnerabilities required physical access to user device and a superior level of technical knowledge.

For some reason you are against hardware wallets, but if OP is using one we would not have this thread and he would still have 1 BTC. Your ideas about insecurity of HW are not groundless, they are not 100% safe - but most of vulnerabilities you are talking about are fixed before they became known to the public.

Chris!

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@OP I can teach you how to properly secure your funds. We can do it here or if you'd like you can PM me.

Paper wallets can be the absolute best option for long term storage if you do it right. Hardware wallets, however, constantly have vulnerabilities found out. Don't believe me. Go ahead and Google "hardware wallet vulnerability". You'll notice that the vulnerabilities have come out over many years and fresh ones have just been found out. They're obviously not properly tested, other than of course the general public buying them and reporting vulnerabilities.

Don't blindly trust third parties (hardware wallet manufacturers) because of this mishap. Learn from it, change your method accordingly and sleep easy knowing you'll never have to worry about your funds being stolen again.

Lucius

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jorro-ts, I'm sorry for your loss, it is big amount of money and I think you should report to police and to every crypto exchange to make this hacker life a little more difficult. Most victims do nothing, and hackers count on that - it is easy money for them.

People blindy trust to paper wallets, but they are not aware how important it is to secure a safe environment for making such wallets. If you ever again decide to invest in bitcoin, maybe you should need to consider hardware wallet - it cost some $70, but it can save you from such risks.

nc50lc

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Quote from: LoyceV on July 10, 2019, 12:29:18 PM

Quote from: bitmover on July 10, 2019, 12:16:45 PM

I believe the attacker got your private keys few days after you put your computer back online. He was probably monitoring your address, waiting for you to put more money there.

OP wiped his computer, that should be enough to remove all traces of private keys. I still prefer a Linux LIVE DVD though, running from memory to ensure nothing ever ends up on a hard drive.

..And less hassle of zero-fill~ing the disk for paranoids Cheesy

(+ reinstalling OS and drivers takes time).

He must have browsed to the webpage then cut down the connection.
His supposedly randomly generated private key wasn't random at all but pre-generated key from an image file and can be reproduced by the culprit.
So even if he's offline the whole time (after loading the page), they can regenerate the possible key based from the malicious page's provided image.

This wont happen if he used the original code from Github.

LoyceV

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Quote from: bitmover on July 10, 2019, 12:16:45 PM

I believe the attacker got your private keys few days after you put your computer back online. He was probably monitoring your address, waiting for you to put more money there.

OP wiped his computer, that should be enough to remove all traces of private keys. I still prefer a Linux LIVE DVD though, running from memory to ensure nothing ever ends up on a hard drive.

bitmover

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Quote from: jorro-ts on July 09, 2019, 01:44:16 PM

yes i used WalletGenerator.net, exactly as you described : wipe the computer, and go online again afterwards
no i dont have, it was a single one

Sorry for your loss.

This is a common subject here often these days (like this https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hardware-wallets-still-arent-secure-and-they-never-will-be-use-paper-wallets-5161786), about paper wallet security.
Most of people think it is easy and simple to make a paper wallet, but it is not.

Generating a paper wallet is risky. You shouldn't have put your computer back online afterwards... In my opinion, the best is to invest in a hardware wallet, which is safer BECAUSE it is easier to use.

I believe the attacker got your private keys few days after you put your computer back online. He was probably monitoring your address, waiting for you to put more money there.

magdaniewczas

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Quote from: jorro-ts on July 09, 2019, 01:23:59 PM

Hello everyone!

More than a Week ago my single btc from offline paper wallet was stolen

it was created in 12.2018 and never used since that time

I am totally frustrated not only because of loss but also becasue i cant get what do i did wrong!

Also i want to mention that the adress it was moved on, is still untouched and have got just a single transaction(my btc)

u can supervise it here

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/1CtmmUkxEbQ8nsa2XFSKy7bo5XmBxYFP5n

what can it be?why it is still untouched? why it happened just in 6 month?

You should contact the police

jorro-ts

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Quote from: LoyceV on July 09, 2019, 02:05:03 PM

Quote from: jorro-ts on July 09, 2019, 02:01:15 PM

but why its still unspent?

"Unspent" means nothing more than "the funds are on that address". It's like having $1000 in the attacker's wallet, it's unspent until he spends it.

Quote

do you think its possible to write to every single crypto market to report this adress ?will it work out?

No. See much longer answer.

thank you for your attention!
seems like its 100% lost. good lesson. expensive one.

LoyceV

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Quote from: jorro-ts on July 09, 2019, 02:01:15 PM

but why its still unspent?

"Unspent" means nothing more than "the funds are on that address". It's like having $1000 in the attacker's wallet, it's unspent until he spends it.

Quote

do you think its possible to write to every single crypto market to report this adress ?will it work out?

No. See much longer answer.

jorro-ts

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but why its still unspent?
do you think its possible to write to every single crypto market to report this adress ?will it work out?

jorro-ts

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Most likely :
1. You create your paper wallet with malicious software/service
2. You create your paper wallet with online website on insecure device/connection
3. Someone found your paper wallet & decide to stole it

But those are educated guess, do you mind tell us how do you create your paper wallet & how do you store it?

1)probably
2)probably
3)absolutely not

well i created it offline, and stored it on a <>

jorro-ts

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Quote from: LoyceV on July 09, 2019, 01:33:26 PM

Some questions:
How did you create the paper wallet? What software did you use?
Did you create it on an offline airgapped system? Did you wipe the computer, or did it go online again afterwards?
Do you still have the paper wallet? Could someone have accessed it?

Could this be the cause: Disclosure: Key generation vulnerability found on WalletGenerator.net—potentially malicious.?

yes i used WalletGenerator.net, exactly as you described : wipe the computer, and go online again afterwards
no i dont have, it was a single one

LoyceV

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Some questions:
How did you create the paper wallet? What software did you use?
Did you create it on an offline airgapped system? Did you wipe the computer, or did it go online again afterwards?
Do you still have the paper wallet? Could someone have accessed it?

Could this be the cause: Disclosure: Key generation vulnerability found on WalletGenerator.net—potentially malicious.?

jorro-ts

newbie

Activity: 11

Merit: 3

Hello everyone!

More than a Week ago my single btc from offline paper wallet was stolen

it was created in 12.2018 and never used since that time

I am totally frustrated not only because of loss but also becasue i cant get what do i did wrong!

Also i want to mention that the adress it was moved on, is still untouched and have got just a single transaction(my btc)

u can supervise it here

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/1CtmmUkxEbQ8nsa2XFSKy7bo5XmBxYFP5n

what can it be?why it is still untouched? why it happened just in 6 month?

Topic: paper wallet was stolen (Read 1263 times)