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Topic: para sa mga na wiwindang din sa mga conspiracies about whale manipulation (Read 175 times)

legendary
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Hindi ko talaga maisip na whales can move the market. Lalo na't most of pump and dump ay based on TA or technical analysis. For me, it's price manipulation is more likely about people who has influenced, government and current events kase price of crypto ay bumaba or tumaas depende sa kanila tulad ni Elon Musk, na naghype ng various tokens at may capability pa syang idump yun by producing a negative info dun sa coin. Also, government banning cryptos at yung current event na nangyayari ngayon between Russia and Ukraine.

Again, Para lang sakin yun, pero when it comes to low popular coins, malaki ang impact ng mga whale sa price at kaya nilang manipulate ang price nun.

A lot more of whales can influence the market, than move the market. Kumbaga kung tumataas ang price, kaya nilang tulungan ang pagtaas nito, and same thing pag bumababa ang price. Ang misconception is ung akala ng karamihan e literal na kaya ng mga "whales" na dalhin ang presyo ng bitcoin sa kahit anong presyo na gusto nila.

Isn't that indirectly fall under moving the market?  As long as may influence ang isang whale sa market, market will move towards sa gusto nyang trend nito.  Anyway, I do agree na mahirap na talagang manipulahin ng mga whales ang Bitcoin ngayon dahil nasa next level na ito na kung saan nakapagestablish na ito ng foundation.  Ang mas may influence sa Bitcoin ngayon ay ang mga institution na kailangan ni BTC to cater more adoption.


hero member
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A lot more of whales can influence the market, than move the market. Kumbaga kung tumataas ang price, kaya nilang tulungan ang pagtaas nito, and same thing pag bumababa ang price. Ang misconception is ung akala ng karamihan e literal na kaya ng mga "whales" na dalhin ang presyo ng bitcoin sa kahit anong presyo na gusto nila.

And funnily enough, nagrereklamo lang ang mga tao ng "wHaLe MaNiPuLaTiOn" pag pababa ang price. Pag pataas, automatic "adoption" daw.
Ganyan paniniwala ko dati na whales ang gumagalaw sa presyo pero nung tumagal na, more on influence talaga sila. Nakakarelate ako sa sinabi mo hehe.
At kapag tumaas nga, ganyan nga din iniisip ko dati na mas maraming adoption ang nagaganap pero sa totoo lang kapag tungkol sa price, demand at supply lang talaga ang naglalaro sa market.
hero member
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Hindi ko talaga maisip na whales can move the market. Lalo na't most of pump and dump ay based on TA or technical analysis. For me, it's price manipulation is more likely about people who has influenced, government and current events kase price of crypto ay bumaba or tumaas depende sa kanila tulad ni Elon Musk, na naghype ng various tokens at may capability pa syang idump yun by producing a negative info dun sa coin. Also, government banning cryptos at yung current event na nangyayari ngayon between Russia and Ukraine.

Again, Para lang sakin yun, pero when it comes to low popular coins, malaki ang impact ng mga whale sa price at kaya nilang manipulate ang price nun.

A lot more of whales can influence the market, than move the market. Kumbaga kung tumataas ang price, kaya nilang tulungan ang pagtaas nito, and same thing pag bumababa ang price. Ang misconception is ung akala ng karamihan e literal na kaya ng mga "whales" na dalhin ang presyo ng bitcoin sa kahit anong presyo na gusto nila.

And funnily enough, nagrereklamo lang ang mga tao ng "wHaLe MaNiPuLaTiOn" pag pababa ang price. Pag pataas, automatic "adoption" daw.
Couldn't agree more with your opinion. Yup, kayang makainfluence ng mga whales when it comes to the market's price pero hinding hindi nila kayang i-fully control ang market especially na laging meron whale na nandyan to hold and counter the dip. Lalong lalo na sa mga high volume crypto like bitcoin, ethereum at bnb, sobrang hirap controllin nyan.
I'm not really sure though kung bakit nila iniisip yung "adoption" ay isa sa mga rason kapag tumaas ang price. Yung "adoption" na iniisip nila might be one of the reason kung bakit magdump ang isang token or crypto soon as it might an opportunity for others to exploit.
mk4
legendary
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Hindi ko talaga maisip na whales can move the market. Lalo na't most of pump and dump ay based on TA or technical analysis. For me, it's price manipulation is more likely about people who has influenced, government and current events kase price of crypto ay bumaba or tumaas depende sa kanila tulad ni Elon Musk, na naghype ng various tokens at may capability pa syang idump yun by producing a negative info dun sa coin. Also, government banning cryptos at yung current event na nangyayari ngayon between Russia and Ukraine.

Again, Para lang sakin yun, pero when it comes to low popular coins, malaki ang impact ng mga whale sa price at kaya nilang manipulate ang price nun.

A lot more of whales can influence the market, than move the market. Kumbaga kung tumataas ang price, kaya nilang tulungan ang pagtaas nito, and same thing pag bumababa ang price. Ang misconception is ung akala ng karamihan e literal na kaya ng mga "whales" na dalhin ang presyo ng bitcoin sa kahit anong presyo na gusto nila.

And funnily enough, nagrereklamo lang ang mga tao ng "wHaLe MaNiPuLaTiOn" pag pababa ang price. Pag pataas, automatic "adoption" daw.
hero member
Activity: 1470
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Be nice!

Mahalaga ren na malaman naten kung paano ba tayo makakasabay ng tama sa mga whales, wag tayo magpanic at dapat pagaralan naten mabuti ang mga gagawin naten, malake ang chance na kumita tayo tulad ng mga whales if nagawa naten ito ng tama.

Indeed riding the trend with whales eh magbibigay sa atin ng magandang profit.  Kaya nga malaking bagay din ang matuto ng Technical Analysis dahil ang bot na gumagalaw sa exchanges ay nakaprogram base dito.  Kung maiintindihan natin ang galaw ng mga bot at klaseng TA ang dominant sa market na ginagalawan natin, matitake advantage natin ang mga possible manipulations na maaring mangyari upang pagkakitaan natin ang galaw ng merkado.
Hindi ko talaga maisip na whales can move the market. Lalo na't most of pump and dump ay based on TA or technical analysis. For me, it's price manipulation is more likely about people who has influenced, government and current events kase price of crypto ay bumaba or tumaas depende sa kanila tulad ni Elon Musk, na naghype ng various tokens at may capability pa syang idump yun by producing a negative info dun sa coin. Also, government banning cryptos at yung current event na nangyayari ngayon between Russia and Ukraine.

Again, Para lang sakin yun, pero when it comes to low popular coins, malaki ang impact ng mga whale sa price at kaya nilang manipulate ang price nun.
legendary
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Mahalaga ren na malaman naten kung paano ba tayo makakasabay ng tama sa mga whales, wag tayo magpanic at dapat pagaralan naten mabuti ang mga gagawin naten, malake ang chance na kumita tayo tulad ng mga whales if nagawa naten ito ng tama.

Indeed riding the trend with whales eh magbibigay sa atin ng magandang profit.  Kaya nga malaking bagay din ang matuto ng Technical Analysis dahil ang bot na gumagalaw sa exchanges ay nakaprogram base dito.  Kung maiintindihan natin ang galaw ng mga bot at klaseng TA ang dominant sa market na ginagalawan natin, matitake advantage natin ang mga possible manipulations na maaring mangyari upang pagkakitaan natin ang galaw ng merkado.
full member
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Tama ito kabayan.

Iba-iba kasi ang mga tokens na hinahawakan ng whales, merong puro Bitcoin lang, at merong puro Altcoin lang. Kaya kung may gagawin man silang massive buy or sell, hindi buong market ang apektado, kundi iilang coins lang unless Bitcoin mismo ang gagamitin nila sa isang massive trade na maaaring mamanipula ang market sa maikling panahon na kalaunan ay babalik rin sa normal.

One thing for sure, kapag ang whales ang nagexecute sa market malaki ang epekto sa price.  Sometimes whales sell their holdings in chunks through the use of BOT (which can be mistaken as minnows).  Mga minnows susunod lang yan sa price trend lalo na yung nagsscalping, unless ung whale eh impatient at gusto na talagang maging cash ang holdings nila or gusto nyang ibagsak ang price para makabili ng mas mura to strengthen ung position nya and at the same time makapagprofit.  Hindi ko lang makita yng article about some guy intentionally selling thousands of BTC to crash the price then ng bumagsak ang presyo nagrebuy siya leaving him to profit millions of dollar plus more BTC.
Not just whales, Exchanges are also manipulating the market considering na marame ren silang hold sa wallet nila, they fake the trade volumes and this could be on their advantage.

May mga whales talaga na gumagawa ng sarili nilang trend, I don't know if they have a group kase for me BTC can't cause big price drop if you're just one whale for sure marame ang involve dito once they started the price manipulation.

Mahalaga ren na malaman naten kung paano ba tayo makakasabay ng tama sa mga whales, wag tayo magpanic at dapat pagaralan naten mabuti ang mga gagawin naten, malake ang chance na kumita tayo tulad ng mga whales if nagawa naten ito ng tama.
legendary
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Tama ito kabayan.

Iba-iba kasi ang mga tokens na hinahawakan ng whales, merong puro Bitcoin lang, at merong puro Altcoin lang. Kaya kung may gagawin man silang massive buy or sell, hindi buong market ang apektado, kundi iilang coins lang unless Bitcoin mismo ang gagamitin nila sa isang massive trade na maaaring mamanipula ang market sa maikling panahon na kalaunan ay babalik rin sa normal.

One thing for sure, kapag ang whales ang nagexecute sa market malaki ang epekto sa price.  Sometimes whales sell their holdings in chunks through the use of BOT (which can be mistaken as minnows).  Mga minnows susunod lang yan sa price trend lalo na yung nagsscalping, unless ung whale eh impatient at gusto na talagang maging cash ang holdings nila or gusto nyang ibagsak ang price para makabili ng mas mura to strengthen ung position nya and at the same time makapagprofit.  Hindi ko lang makita yng article about some guy intentionally selling thousands of BTC to crash the price then ng bumagsak ang presyo nagrebuy siya leaving him to profit millions of dollar plus more BTC.
sr. member
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Actually until now naniniwala pa rin ako ng minamanipulate ng whales ang market, hindi ko lang alam kung sino sila pero kung babasihan natin ang galaw ng price, yung pump and dump, clearly may manipulation na nangyayari. Pero maganda yang ginawa mo OP, merong study or explanation, kaya mas reliable yan.
Sa totoo lang, nangyayari naman talaga ang whale manipulation lalo na sa mga low volume tokens or yung mga bagong token. Kayang kaya nila kontrolin yung market pero hindi lahat ng market ay kaya nilang kontrolin.
Para sa akin, yung whale manipulation is most likely about the whale starting a pump or dump and the rest will follow na lang which will cause further pumping or dumping on the price of that token. However, may instanses naman na whale counters a whale. Like a whale tried to dump a token however someone will buy that dip and the price will continue to stay the same or pump.

Tama ito kabayan.

Iba-iba kasi ang mga tokens na hinahawakan ng whales, merong puro Bitcoin lang, at merong puro Altcoin lang. Kaya kung may gagawin man silang massive buy or sell, hindi buong market ang apektado, kundi iilang coins lang unless Bitcoin mismo ang gagamitin nila sa isang massive trade na maaaring mamanipula ang market sa maikling panahon na kalaunan ay babalik rin sa normal.
hero member
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Be nice!
Actually until now naniniwala pa rin ako ng minamanipulate ng whales ang market, hindi ko lang alam kung sino sila pero kung babasihan natin ang galaw ng price, yung pump and dump, clearly may manipulation na nangyayari. Pero maganda yang ginawa mo OP, merong study or explanation, kaya mas reliable yan.
Sa totoo lang, nangyayari naman talaga ang whale manipulation lalo na sa mga low volume tokens or yung mga bagong token. Kayang kaya nila kontrolin yung market pero hindi lahat ng market ay kaya nilang kontrolin.
Para sa akin, yung whale manipulation is most likely about the whale starting a pump or dump and the rest will follow na lang which will cause further pumping or dumping on the price of that token. However, may instanses naman na whale counters a whale. Like a whale tried to dump a token however someone will buy that dip and the price will continue to stay the same or pump.
mk4
legendary
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For some reason tingin ng karamihan is ung mga "wHaLeS" e parang kontrolado talaga nila ung buong market. Oo, malaki influence nila kung gumagawa sila ng malaking market executions, pero hindi naman ung tipong literal na kada kilos nila e nagiging successful at nagpprofit sila. Malamang may risks parin kahit kung malaki ang bankroll.

Look. There's definitely manipulations in the market, but that's with ANY other market. And it seems like you seem to think that these types of manipulation maneuvers are something that's guaranteed to work well for the "wHaLe" or something, because it's definitely not. It can definitely work well for them, but it could just as easily go south for them.
hero member
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Burpaaa
Agree ako sa analysis na ito noong panahon na wala pang mga big market maker or big exchange since napaka dealing talagang I manipulate ng whale ang price by doing that method pero panahon ngayon, Yung mga sell at buy wall are galing sa mga market maker bot na naka program na magbigay ng big orders sa mga known support at resistance.

Hindi na kasi spot market ang focus ng whales sa pag manipulate ng market, Futures trading na labanan ng mga whales kaya kung mamanipulate sila at massive dump or pump in short period of time at hindi na kagaya nyang nasa explanation na nalalagay ng buy at sell walls. Napaka old skul na ng method na yan at d na uubra sa laki ng trading volume sa panahon ngayon. Mas malakas kitaan sa futures trading manipulation kaya laging coordinated manipulation ang gngawa ng mga whales.
sr. member
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So eto na nga mga kabayan, mula sa topic na "bitcoin as a commodity market?" Umabot tungkol sa conspiracy theory about sa market manipulation ng malalaking crypto whales at nagandahan lang ako sa sagot nung ka forum natin na si franky1 kasi sobramg eye opener response nya. Kaya yun e.she.share ko dito baka makatulong kasi baka me mga katulad ko na matagal na sa industriyang ito pero me mga misconceptions padin.

alot of people think its "whale" manipulation of exchanges.
but after studying things. its not. its actually the minnows


in 2013-4 when the markets were $400 there were whales making walls of 1000btc
obviously with prices at $40k now it means a similar 'wall' only needs to be 10btc deep

this is because although the market is portrayed as supply and demand. where instead of 2013-4 supply was only 12mill coins and now there are 19mill.. the more supply in circulation has not resulted in more supply on the market.
eg. if average order was 2btc in 2013-4, youd think with 50% more in circulation average orders would now be 3btc

however, most market orders now are of 0.01btc-10btc not 1btc-1000btc in earlier years.

meaning there is probably an equal 100x less coin in exchanges offsetting an equal 100x more price.

sellers have figured out that buyers are not spending more money. they instead are spending the same amount.
so if someone in 2013 wanted to spend $600 a month he would get 1.5btc in 2013-4. where as now he would get 0.015btc.

the market price does not mean someone in 2013-4 who regularly paid $600 a month to buy crypto is now buying $60,000 a month.
buyers value per order has not changed. and so its the sellers who dont want to crash the market by selling 1.5btc now or even 2.25btc with there being 50% more supply in circulation than in 2013-4.
instead decide to play the economics game, offer smaller amounts of coin

imagine it this way. a seller.. with 1.5btc. wanting $60k
right now he can make 2 choices.
sell 1.5btc at $40k/btc =$60k fiat
sell 0.1btc(15 times) at $4.01k= $60.15k   (0.1*15=1.5)

sellers find it easier to not try selling 1.5btc at 40.1 as that creates a wall keeping price below that, but if he has small orders that fill of 0.01 for $401, they fill fast and are seen as a price lift to $40.1, even without buyers having to buy up tens of thousands of dollars to achieve it.

what im saying is dont worry about the only last few whales pushing 10btc.. instead watch out for the minnows putting in 0.01btc orders spaced out by $1 a coin meaning small orders causing large movements in prices

sellers realise instead of trying to push 1.5 coins on a market which can cause the price to go down. if they sell small portions in small amounts at a slight premium. the buyers dont notice the big hit as much. but it pushes the market price

ill add this for reference
screenshot taken from binance whilst writing this post


When it only takes  0.32725btc to                         When it only takes  0.31331btc to
change the price by $6(38772-38766)                   change the price by $7 (38773-38780)


then you know the problem is not due to lots of orders or lots of buyers/sellers.  but instead its the LACK of traders, which means that a price can change, not by 1cent amounts but by $2-$3 in one order line fill

if there were thousands of users:
which would put orders 1cent above the next and so order fills would only move by 1cent
or
many people will put lots of coin on one priceline meaning it would appear  as 1-20btc not 0.02btc
but instead.. look at
SELL 3->4 one order fill can change the price by $3.39
BUY 2->3 one order fill can change the price by $4.35

code can prevent big whale wallers, but human emotion and greed will play the opposite and find a way to play the markets
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