Pavel (Telegram owner) arrested in France on terrorism and other charges

Iamgoat

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Quote from: uchegod-21 on August 26, 2024, 06:29:27 PM

This is amazing to know. So, Durov is actually not a small man. He has had experience in this field and so he must have known what is obtainable or not. I am surprised the story is going this way. Maybe this is all about another thing, maybe a target attempt and attack on him. But it seems he'll come out from this strong. Maybe the effect will be strict censoring of the telegram app.

Durov is yet my favorite man in the industry. The level at which he holds the integrity of his brand and chart innovative ways to make mind blowing improvements is interesting. Gradually a lot of people are becoming more aware and interested in his technology and he's building a strong base currently. He made me fall in love with the platform the more having heard of his censorship protection on the platform. We are strongly behind Durov.

BADecker

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Released on bail. Simply a French money-making scheme.

Telegram Founder Pavel Durov Released from Prison in France – Bail Set at €5,000,000 - https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/08/telegram-founder-pavel-durov-released-prison-france-bail/.

Cool

uchegod-21

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Quote from: LTU_btc on August 25, 2024, 03:00:40 PM

It's sad news, but probably not surprising. There is lot of illegal things happening on Telegram and probably it's Durov's responsibility that he allows it to happen. Yeah, illegal stuff hppens on other social media too, but at much smaller scale. Though, I'm still wondering was it real reason of arrest.
Telegram isn't perfect, but it's least censored social media. I hope it won't turn into heavy censored shit like Facebook or Twitter. Though, similar thing already happened before. Durov was founder of VK.com, most popular social mediain Russia. It gave freedom to it's users and offcourse Russian authorities didn't liked it. Durov got lot of pressure and had no other choice than selling VK.

This is amazing to know. So, Durov is actually not a small man. He has had experience in this field and so he must have known what is obtainable or not. I am surprised the story is going this way. Maybe this is all about another thing, maybe a target attempt and attack on him. But it seems he'll come out from this strong. Maybe the effect will be strict censoring of the telegram app.

paxmao

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Quote from: coolcoinz on August 26, 2024, 03:25:26 PM

Quote from: mindrust on August 26, 2024, 01:24:46 AM

Quote from: tsaroz on August 26, 2024, 12:26:20 AM

lol the puppet government is a disgrace. Shame on french people.

Many French people don’t like their current rulers. I don’t think we should blame all the French. However they need to do something about it without a doubt. Yellow vests tried it but failed. Maybe next time.

Just like many Russians don't like Putin and many North Koreans don't like Kim, should we blame them?

In a way we should because they are indirectly responsible for what's going on in the country. Why do Russians send their kids to military schools and military training? Why do the French vote for Macron? Somebody chose this idiot, just like somebody chose Trudeau in Canada. These people are enemies of freedom and yet they aren't being overthrown like many similar enemies of freedom were in many different countries throughout history.

Quote from: legiteum on August 26, 2024, 03:16:24 PM

So even though Whatsapp and others don't give the authorities the actual content of the discussions, they could cooperating with authorities on all of the metadata, which might keep them satisfied? This is just a theory.

Why should they? Either you eavesdrop on private conversations or you don't. Do you think that would satisfy them? You give them a finger and they will take the hand.

While the French are peculiar about this, what I find most disturbing is the treatment given to XTwitter. It can promote or echo anything at Elon's whim.

coolcoinz

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Quote from: mindrust on August 26, 2024, 01:24:46 AM

Quote from: tsaroz on August 26, 2024, 12:26:20 AM

lol the puppet government is a disgrace. Shame on french people.

Many French people don’t like their current rulers. I don’t think we should blame all the French. However they need to do something about it without a doubt. Yellow vests tried it but failed. Maybe next time.

Just like many Russians don't like Putin and many North Koreans don't like Kim, should we blame them?

In a way we should because they are indirectly responsible for what's going on in the country. Why do Russians send their kids to military schools and military training? Why do the French vote for Macron? Somebody chose this idiot, just like somebody chose Trudeau in Canada. These people are enemies of freedom and yet they aren't being overthrown like many similar enemies of freedom were in many different countries throughout history.

Quote from: legiteum on August 26, 2024, 03:16:24 PM

So even though Whatsapp and others don't give the authorities the actual content of the discussions, they could cooperating with authorities on all of the metadata, which might keep them satisfied? This is just a theory.

Why should they? Either you eavesdrop on private conversations or you don't. Do you think that would satisfy them? You give them a finger and they will take the hand.

legiteum

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The key question here is, why is Pavel getting prosecuted but other networks aren't?

And maybe a secondary question is, what do these other networks do that Telegram didn't do that has gotten them singled out like this?

And why do criminals gravitate toward Telegram and not the others? (Or do they?)

In looking into this, at least initially, I found this explanation of the E2E encryption in Whatsapp, which would explain what Telegram might be holding back from the authorities:

Quote

If i know tom is a drug dealer, and i know you spoke to tom, and i know that your phone and tom's phone were near each other for 5 minutes. Even if i dont know that you talked about buying drugs i can infer that you did. Whatsapp tells facebook who, where, when, how long, etc.

So even though Whatsapp and others don't give the authorities the actual content of the discussions, they could cooperating with authorities on all of the metadata, which might keep them satisfied? This is just a theory.

One thing I can say for sure is that the French government is being ridiculous here by making this a criminal matter. Lots of companies stretch the limits of privacy and governments have all kinds of tools they can use before they jail the CEO. Maybe try talking to them first? Or leveeing a fine? Or banning the service in France? I'm not saying they should do any of these things to Telegram, but that they jumped right away to the most extreme remedy is a bad sign.

YADAYADA

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Here we have the French banana republic ran by the vichy government showing its true colours of a totalitarian regime not long after their olympic opening cermony debacle. Horrible place to live I would imagine or even transit through on a stopover. Very dangerous country on any freedom index I would think. Moscow would probably be a more free place to live than Paris these days. I doubt the Russian secret police is any scarier to its citizens or anyone visiting there than the French secret police. Very stazi and very worrying for anyone thinking of going on a holiday there or doing business with the french.

mindrust

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Quote from: tsaroz on August 26, 2024, 12:26:20 AM

lol the puppet government is a disgrace. Shame on french people.

Many French people don’t like their current rulers. I don’t think we should blame all the French. However they need to do something about it without a doubt. Yellow vests tried it but failed. Maybe next time.

tsaroz

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lol the puppet government is a disgrace. Shame on french people.

Hispo

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Quote from: paxmao on August 25, 2024, 07:32:59 PM

...

I would say that the fact that is uncensored and pretty much anonymous is what causes terror to the French government. did you know that in the first instance the use of the telegraph in France was limited to the government? Same here.

For now all we can do is to speculate, I guess. It will take us to wait to actually see what the French government alledges against Telegram and his CEO for us to be completely sure whether they have got a solid case against him or not. All this situation makes me wonder whether this has something directly to do with TON and the embedded integration it has with Telegram. He would not be the first person involved with cryptocurrency who gets prosecuted because of alledgedly making easy for criminals to launder money.
So this is either about cryptocurrency or communication media, my stake is on the communication media making people in positions of power to feel really uncomfortable not having more control over Telegram, in the same way there seems to be control over Twitter and Whatsapp.

On a side note, people into alternative currencies are already speculating heavily on the price of TON and how it could skyrocket when Pavel gets free once again... some are saying it is a safe bet, but I am not sure it is.

paxmao

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Quote from: Hispo on August 25, 2024, 07:20:18 PM

Quote from: paxmao on August 25, 2024, 12:02:21 PM

...

Telegram is also important for the Ukrainian war effort and often used by military.

I am aware Telegram is used by Ukraine, mostly for people who want to get informed on the war effort and the news from the Frontline, but how does exactly the military use the application? I would have assumed they used other medium for them to communicate and which are hardly encrypted, so the Russian army cannot intercept them.
By the way, I have also seen several channel set up by Russian mocking Ukraine and sharing very crude and gory drone videos from the Frontline, to my knowledge, it seems Telegram policy has been not no censor anything from the war, not even what we would call propaganda or misinformation.

I highly agree with the comparative you do with other CEOs and the way they are treated by European Justice, they probably obey the big brother from day one anyways.

It is used often by informant networks, e.g. sharing videos of the aftermath of a strike or locations of troops. It is a direct link between the local civilians in the occupied areas and the Ukrainian army. I believe there are actually some local level groups of purely military personnel sharing information.

I would say that the fact that is uncensored and pretty much anonymous is what causes terror to the French government. did you know that in the first instance the use of the telegraph in France was limited to the government? Same here.

Hispo

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Quote from: paxmao on August 25, 2024, 12:02:21 PM

...

Telegram is also important for the Ukrainian war effort and often used by military.

I am aware Telegram is used by Ukraine, mostly for people who want to get informed on the war effort and the news from the Frontline, but how does exactly the military use the application? I would have assumed they used other medium for them to communicate and which are hardly encrypted, so the Russian army cannot intercept them.
By the way, I have also seen several channel set up by Russian mocking Ukraine and sharing very crude and gory drone videos from the Frontline, to my knowledge, it seems Telegram policy has been not no censor anything from the war, not even what we would call propaganda or misinformation.

I highly agree with the comparative you do with other CEOs and the way they are treated by European Justice, they probably obey the big brother from day one anyways.

GxSTxV

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It’s not just a sad news, but it’s really unfair that we always see such false accusations and arrests against people who are involved in the development of cryptocurrencies in general. Whenever governments starting to lose control over freedom of expression against anything, they start to act and keep this on its way like we always been, where most platforms are following parts and countries. For example facebook, instagram and the rest of social networks are not allowing many things due to following a part or region.

Telegram platform have always provided safety of data, freedom of speech and cryptocurrencies support where thy launched TON Coin. I discovered that something is off yesterday once the news were everywhere when the price of TON dropped badly and I have received a notification of Binance.

The power of Telegram platform is great and everything is suppoting Durov in this unfair situation, everyone is sure that he is innocent of all the accusations against him. Shame of governments.

LTU_btc

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Slava Ukraini!

It's sad news, but probably not surprising. There is lot of illegal things happening on Telegram and probably it's Durov's responsibility that he allows it to happen. Yeah, illegal stuff hppens on other social media too, but at much smaller scale. Though, I'm still wondering was it real reason of arrest.
Telegram isn't perfect, but it's least censored social media. I hope it won't turn into heavy censored shit like Facebook or Twitter. Though, similar thing already happened before. Durov was founder of VK.com, most popular social mediain Russia. It gave freedom to it's users and offcourse Russian authorities didn't liked it. Durov got lot of pressure and had no other choice than selling VK.

darkangel11

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It proves that people in power can do whatever they want to you and they can bend the law to do so. If they come to you and tell you to spy on people and you say no, they'll try to make you do it by taking away your freedom, threatening you and so on. It's basically modern slavery because like Edward Snowden, Durov showed some integrity, yet he's being attacked. It's amazing that a person can be treated like a criminal without committing any crimes.
It reminds me of how bitcoin exchanges in many different countries used to be bullied into sharing their customer data with the government and those that said no were forced to leave the country.

paxmao

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https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/telegram-messaging-app-ceo-pavel-durov-arrested-france-tf1-tv-says-2024-08-24/

Quote

PARIS/MOSCOW, Aug 25 (Reuters) - Pavel Durov, the Russian-born billionaire founder and owner of the Telegram messaging app, was arrested at Le Bourget airport outside Paris shortly after landing on a private jet late on Saturday and placed in custody, three sources told Reuters.
The arrest of the 39-year-old technology billionaire prompted on Sunday a warning from Moscow to Paris that he should be accorded his rights and criticism from X owner Elon Musk who said that free speech in Europe was under attack.

Apart from the right to private communications, free speech and other, what I find here is a massive difference in how this person is being treated versus other cyber billionaires such as Musk or Zukerberg. Both their media are know to accept fake information and microtargeting to spread the wrong information to exactly the place it hurts.

Telegram is also important for the Ukrainian war effort and often used by military.

Update:

This is not really about blaming the French nor the government, this is about a precise matter: The control of communications.

However, some other news are now appearing that may have change the perception of this: There are rumours that Pavel had met with Putin or a close subordinate in St Petersburg or at Baku. There may be more that meets the eye on this situation, despite the general principle of allowing communications.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly9xqnn3v4o

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