Paypal not reversible for Bitcoins | Bitcointalksearch.org

Zedster

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Quote from: sublime5447 on March 19, 2013, 10:02:26 AM

I use papal all the time. In fact every trade that I have done has been for paypal. It is my preferred way to pay and get paid. They do what they want at PP. So just dont sell to scammers.

My post was about buying not selling. I have since closed my paycrap account and gotten my money back from my CC. Lesson learned and dealt with.

sublime5447

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I use papal all the time. In fact every trade that I have done has been for paypal. It is my preferred way to pay and get paid. They do what they want at PP. So just dont sell to scammers.

Jenger

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🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

vip

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👻

Filing an intangible item as "not received" or SNAD -> you lose dispute.

Filing as unauthorized payment -> you win pretty much most of the time.

THAT is the difference.

Stephen Gornick

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Quote from: Zedster on March 18, 2013, 10:45:14 AM

I know this to be fact as I am being screwed by Paypal as we speak

You are not being screwed by PayPal, you bought something that wasn't delivered. You made the assumption that you were protected by PayPal but they are avoiding that using technicality (by saying you bought a digital good).

How did you pay for your purchase, from a PayPal balance, or with credit card? If you paid with credit card, you can charge back through your credit card issuer.

cassini

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It often depends on the buyer's reaction. During the PaypalCase procedure the buyer is asked for proof of delivery. If the buyer does as requested, e.g. sending a scan of the invoice, he will loose the case most likely.
If the buyer simply states "Seller protection does not apply. Intangible goods!", then he has a good chance of winning the PaypalCase.

Zedster

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on March 18, 2013, 11:18:25 AM

Quote from: Zedster on March 18, 2013, 11:06:23 AM

Not anymore now its better to be the seller and not sell anything. All the seller had to do was say "Yes I have given him the items" no wallet ID no nothing. Basically I am hoping to help any other idiot such as myself that believes what is said in these forums to be the concrete truth, because I can tell you it's not.

Doesn't work if the buyer claims he never made the purchase, or it is a genuinely hacked/stolen PayPal account, or it was funded by a stolen credit card, etc. Plenty of ways for a dishonest buyer to pull a scam. You didn't know what you were doing and like talking to the cops without a lawyer just backed yourself into a corner.

Yep this explains a bit. I was not going to lie to do the right thing. Maybe I should have. I still have one option. Paypal has said that if it is determined that the company is a fraud I should get my money back. Guess I should have lied.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: Zedster on March 18, 2013, 11:06:23 AM

Not anymore now its better to be the seller and not sell anything. All the seller had to do was say "Yes I have given him the items" no wallet ID no nothing. Basically I am hoping to help any other idiot such as myself that believes what is said in these forums to be the concrete truth, because I can tell you it's not.

Doesn't work if the buyer claims he never made the purchase, or it is a genuinely hacked/stolen PayPal account, or it was funded by a stolen credit card, etc. Plenty of ways for a dishonest buyer to pull a scam. You didn't know what you were doing and like talking to the cops without a lawyer just backed yourself into a corner.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

You should change your title to "PayPal not reversible for honest people".

A scammer would simply dispute the tx as "unauthorized" claim they never made it and have no idea how it showed up on his/her account. The scammer would have the funds back by now. Being honest you just screwed yourself.

This shows why you shouldn't use PayPal (as either buyer or seller) unless you trust the counterparty. A scammer is going to know every trick and trap and the honest joe is just going to get robbed.

SgtSpike

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Plot twist: Paypal is evil and simply steals the money from BOTH users, telling the seller that the buyer charged back, and telling the buyer that they cannot refund the purchase since it was for digital goods.

Zedster

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Quote from: RodeoX on March 18, 2013, 11:04:56 AM

Quote from: Zedster on March 18, 2013, 11:01:20 AM

I have told them it was for BTC since its on the invoice.

Wow, maybe they have given up? lol

I would still be very careful. Bitcoin chargeback is the most common scam I see here.

Not anymore now its better to be the seller and not sell anything. All the seller had to do was say "Yes I have given him the items" no wallet ID no nothing. Basically I am hoping to help any other idiot such as myself that believes what is said in these forums to be the concrete truth, because I can tell you it's not.

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

Quote from: Zedster on March 18, 2013, 11:01:20 AM

I have told them it was for BTC since its on the invoice.

Wow, maybe they have given up? lol

I would still be very careful. Bitcoin chargeback is the most common scam I see here.

Zedster

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Quote from: RodeoX on March 18, 2013, 10:59:05 AM

Quote from: Zedster on March 18, 2013, 10:54:36 AM

Quote

Unfortunately, we are denying your claim because your purchase was for a
virtual, digital, or intangible item, which is not covered under PayPal
Purchase Protection. We only cover claims involving physical items that
can be shipped and tracked.

This is from Paypal

Interesting. Now tell them the item is bitcoin and see what happens. PayPal also has a policy against any digital currency being traded. Your account can be locked and it can take a long time to get your money out upon locking.

You can try, but when you have been ripped off don't expect much sympathy from the peers in this forum.

I have told them it was for BTC since its on the invoice. Not looking for sympathy just trying to figure out how people can do charge backs and get away with it as I would like my money back.

RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

Quote from: Zedster on March 18, 2013, 10:54:36 AM

Quote

Unfortunately, we are denying your claim because your purchase was for a
virtual, digital, or intangible item, which is not covered under PayPal
Purchase Protection. We only cover claims involving physical items that
can be shipped and tracked.

This is from Paypal

Interesting. Now tell them the item is bitcoin and see what happens. PayPal also has a policy against any digital currency being traded. Your account can be locked and it can take a long time to get your money out upon locking.

You can try, but when you have been ripped off don't expect much sympathy from the peers in this forum.

KWH

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In Collateral I Trust.

Quote from: Zedster on March 18, 2013, 10:51:49 AM

You can not do a charge back on virtual goods. This is my point! Leaving the buyer screwed not the seller

Yes you can especially if it was funded via CC. PP makes their own rules as they go and each case can be solved with different rules as they see fit.

Zedster

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Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote

Unfortunately, we are denying your claim because your purchase was for a
virtual, digital, or intangible item, which is not covered under PayPal
Purchase Protection. We only cover claims involving physical items that
can be shipped and tracked.

This is from Paypal

bitsource

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Paypal do what they want - if there is any transaction contested by the buyer - Paypal will always side by the buyer and the seller looses - this is my painful experience as the seller.

RodeoX

legendary

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The revolution will be monetized!

Quote from: Zedster on March 18, 2013, 10:51:49 AM

You can not do a charge back on virtual goods. This is my point!

Check the forums, sadly it happens every day. Sad

Zedster

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You can not do a charge back on virtual goods. This is my point! Leaving the buyer screwed not the seller

RodeoX

legendary

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The revolution will be monetized!

If you sell bitcoins for paypal then this is what is likely to happen.

Send bitcoins and receiver sends paypal cash.

Receiver now does a chargeback on the money sent and reclaims his/her money.

Sender now has no bitcoin, no money, and no recourse, as PayPal will never help anyone with a bitcoin related claim. Remember bitcoin competes directly with bitcoin.

DO NOT USE PayPal!!!!

SgtSpike

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You've already answered your own questions.

Quote from: Zedster on March 18, 2013, 10:45:14 AM

why its so frowned to sell with Paypal?

Quote

PayPal should be safe for the buyer and bad for the seller.

It IS bad for the seller. That's why you never see people selling BTC for Paypal, and those who attempt to do so get screwed.

Zedster

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Just wondering since Paypal considers Bitcoin a virtual good and will not refund your money in the case you don't receive your goods why its so frowned upon to sell with Paypal?

I know this to be fact as I am being screwed by Paypal as we speak. I assumed with all that is said about Paypal being able to charge back that attempting to buy coins with PayPal should be safe for the buyer and bad for the seller. That is not the case.

Topic: Paypal not reversible for Bitcoins (Read 2799 times)