Well I've got through Turkey Day to ponder... perhaps it will make for some good conversation there.
I appreciate your response Maged. I will give it just a little more time to let others comment, but sounds like opting out is the way to go if I plan to use Paypal for large payments in the future.
Topic: Paypal User Agreement - Opt out? (Read 1086 times)
I'm not a lawyer, but here is my understanding:
1) They don't want to risk losing customers over this update, especially the business customers.
2) They don't want to risk being seen as a monopoly and abusing their power.
3) They want to reassure lawmakers that mandatory binding arbitration is ok because people can opt-out of it. This is for the illusion that these issues can be regulated by businesses themselves, rather than the government, even though it's now almost impossible to find agreements these days that don't have mandatory binding arbitration.
If i opt out (by sending a letter), then I retain this right. However, I'm curious if there is any downside to opting out.... Am I giving up anything? Perhaps a right to utilize the arbitration process?
Exactly. You lose the right to force Paypal to use Arbitration. However, you can still both agree to use Arbitration if you want.For that matter, why do they even have to give us an option to opt-out?
First off, they don't have to provide the option to opt-out. In fact, several companies don't. However, Paypal provides this option for a few reasons:1) They don't want to risk losing customers over this update, especially the business customers.
2) They don't want to risk being seen as a monopoly and abusing their power.
3) They want to reassure lawmakers that mandatory binding arbitration is ok because people can opt-out of it. This is for the illusion that these issues can be regulated by businesses themselves, rather than the government, even though it's now almost impossible to find agreements these days that don't have mandatory binding arbitration.
The likelihood of me being in a Class action suit is small. However, the likelihood of me needing to defend myself against Paypal is more likely. If i'm giving up the option to have Paypal pay for an arbitration process, then it might be worth me deciding to not opt out.
Thoughts anyone?
You should still opt-out anyway. Because of the way the arbitration industry works, the only ones that can survive business-wise are the ones that overwhelmingly favor the people who pay them. Besides, you aren't giving up arbitration completely, just the right to force PayPal to use it. Although, in practice, that means that they'd only then be willing to use arbitration if you had a very good case that'd fetch a large reward, so you should still use the courts. Thoughts anyone?
It doesn't really matter, you can survive without it.
My guess is that there's something going on behind the scenes for them to even consider putting this out there. Chances are good that this course of action is meant to protect them more than it is to protect their clients. Probably playing the numbers game, knowing that only a certain amount of individuals will jump through the hoop.
~Bruno K~
~Bruno K~
I trust the community here, so I wish to get your opinions.
Here's one link to some directions on how to opt out if you wish:
http://www.scambook.com/blog/2012/10/paypal-policy-update-how-to-opt-out/
On October 6, I received the following e-mail:
I've read the update and think I understand the decision I have to make. Please comment if you think I've misunderstood (I'm not a lawyer).
If I do nothing, then I will no longer be able to participate in a class action lawsuit against Paypal. I will have to defend myself and go through their Arbitration process to dispute any claims against Paypal.
If i opt out (by sending a letter), then I retain this right. However, I'm curious if there is any downside to opting out.... Am I giving up anything? Perhaps a right to utilize the arbitration process?
For that matter, why do they even have to give us an option to opt-out?
The likelihood of me being in a Class action suit is small. However, the likelihood of me needing to defend myself against Paypal is more likely. If i'm giving up the option to have Paypal pay for an arbitration process, then it might be worth me deciding to not opt out.
Thoughts anyone?
Here's one link to some directions on how to opt out if you wish:
http://www.scambook.com/blog/2012/10/paypal-policy-update-how-to-opt-out/
On October 6, I received the following e-mail:
Quote
PayPal recently posted a new Policy Update which includes changes to the PayPal User Agreement. The update to the User Agreement is effective November 1, 2012 and contains several changes, including changes that affect how claims you and PayPal have against each other are resolved. You will, with limited exception, be required to submit claims you have against PayPal to binding and final arbitration, unless you opt out of the Agreement to Arbitrate (Section 14.3) by December 1, 2012. Unless you opt out: (1) you will only be permitted to pursue claims against PayPal on an individual basis, not as a plaintiff or class member in any class or representative action or proceeding and (2) you will only be permitted to seek relief (including monetary, injunctive, and declaratory relief) on an individual basis.
You can view this Policy Update by logging in to your PayPal account. To log in to your account, go to https://www.paypal.com and enter your member log in information. Once you are logged in, look at the Notifications section on the top right side of the page for the latest Policy Updates. We encourage you to review the Policy Update to familiarize yourself with all of the changes that have been made.
If you need help logging in, go to our Help Center by clicking the Help link located in the upper right-hand corner of any PayPal page.
Sincerely,
PayPal
You can view this Policy Update by logging in to your PayPal account. To log in to your account, go to https://www.paypal.com and enter your member log in information. Once you are logged in, look at the Notifications section on the top right side of the page for the latest Policy Updates. We encourage you to review the Policy Update to familiarize yourself with all of the changes that have been made.
If you need help logging in, go to our Help Center by clicking the Help link located in the upper right-hand corner of any PayPal page.
Sincerely,
PayPal
I've read the update and think I understand the decision I have to make. Please comment if you think I've misunderstood (I'm not a lawyer).
If I do nothing, then I will no longer be able to participate in a class action lawsuit against Paypal. I will have to defend myself and go through their Arbitration process to dispute any claims against Paypal.
If i opt out (by sending a letter), then I retain this right. However, I'm curious if there is any downside to opting out.... Am I giving up anything? Perhaps a right to utilize the arbitration process?
For that matter, why do they even have to give us an option to opt-out?
The likelihood of me being in a Class action suit is small. However, the likelihood of me needing to defend myself against Paypal is more likely. If i'm giving up the option to have Paypal pay for an arbitration process, then it might be worth me deciding to not opt out.
Thoughts anyone?
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