Topic: [PBBS] PLAYTIN Bitcoin Bankroll Shares @PLAYTIN (Read 10994 times)

Thanks, I appreciate the tips, maybe I'll check these out in the future. I have resolved my computer issues so my system(s) are stable, and I will never let something like this happen again, it totally could have been prevented if I just followed my own standard procedure for transferring funds. I would recommend you check out the program Revelation. It's a wonderful password manager (as long as you save the password BEFORE sending the coins.. lol).

I wonder if there is a chance to find the persons behind. I don't have a clue where to look, who to ask or hire and so on. Any idea?

Regarding your problem... i use a freeware named Ditto. It saves everything that was in clipboard. Of course one should set it up so that it doesn't store passwords copied from keepass. But its very helpful. Simply copying a link and it can't be lost anymore. It saved me often from data loss from pc crashs because it saves it instantly itself.

For internet forms like forum posts i use FF-Extension Lazarus. I didn't lose that much from not doing it before but it's annoying in any case.

In my case, a while back I had some truly terrible luck. I had just deposited 0.5 btc in a 'quick registered' playt.in wallet, when my computer suddenly died on me. It just shut down without warning, due to a hardware failure (I later discovered that the heat sink died and it simply over-heated and shut down, at the worst moment ever). I had a pretty scientific method for using playt.in, because I noticed that I could never seem to find contact info for the admins, so I always tried to be careful because I knew if something like this happened I would be in this boat....

Playt.in has a quick registration where you just click a link and you have to save a unique URL in order to log in to your account. Typically, I would save the unique URL to my password database on my hard drive, and then also save a copy on a USB flash drive before sending the coins. But this particular time I got distracted for half a second immediately after sending the BTC, and forgot to click 'save' on my password manager program... I also was using the TOR browser at the time, so there was no history to retrieve my login URL with either... believe me, I searched... bad circumstances.

The Tor Browser Bundle must cache directly to RAM or something, because there was no trace of the TOR brower's history anywhere on my hard drive... I tried using data recovery & forensic software from a live Kali Linux disc, digging through the SQlite db's that tor does cache to disk during the current session, and everything else I could think of. Well, it turns out that the TOR browser does indeed do it's job well, because there was literally nothing to find.  I posted  a thread about it here:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9191064

I have been trying to contact the admin ever since, as I can prove that I own the wallet that the funds were sent from. There is a link to the blockchain record of the transaction in that thread as well. The funds sat there for a few months, I could not get them, and then one day they were moved. I am assuming at this point I will never get them back. So sure, it is technically all my fault, as there was no fault on the server side ...however, I for one believe that if one is to run a site that deals with currency like playt.in does, then one must be reachable in case  things go wrong, like they did in my case. That is why I say do not trust this site. No communication==You're screwed if something goes wrong (you know that old saying, 's*** happens'...)

Did you read what the new posts are about? It's not like it's some advertising, it's more like anti-advertising.

I still want to find some big shareholders or the founders but somehow i see the possibility that i was the only one investing a big amount. Maybe the other big shareholders never existed and my investment was the only thing they waited for. Damn how could i be that stupid...

What happened here? They were offering insane dividends for awhile.

a scary amount of new users keep bumping playtins topics... What's going on? Did an army of newbies create accounts here to discuss playtin all of a sudden?

Looking at the first 10 posts in this securities section, it looks like 9/10 investments are scams. Am I wrong ? Is anything much beyond Havelock actually panning out without the owners mysteriously disappearing after a year or something ? At this rate it looks like without following a thread here for a year OR pulling out after the first few months, you are pretty much set up for failure. Most so called bitcoin "investments" seem to be some random dude in his basement in a second world country.

I don't think that qualifies to say that its a scam because they most probably use a shared wallet like practically every exchange and other service. That means that the bitcoins deposited aren't bound to you anymore once you deposited. The system only stores that you own an amount of bitcoins. Your bitcoins most probably were paid out to another user who wanted to get their coins. Thats normal.

You could call it a scam if you arent able to withdraw your coins. Normally you would get coins from another address, maybe coins another user deposited. Did you try to withdraw them?

They are indeed a scam, if you want to see for yourself look at the link to the funds that I deposited into their wallet, via the blockchain. For about 3 months the 0.5 btc was stuck  sitting in the same wallet I deposited it into, but recently the coins were moved and dispersed into many different wallets. If they were a legit site, then my funds would still be sitting in the same wallet that I deposited them into, because that wallet is supposed to be specific to my account. The fact that the site is still operational is even worse. It would appear to me that they will keep the site active until their domain contract expires in a few months, to scam as many people as possible. So if you have BTC sitting in a playt.in wallet, I would withdraw it immediately before they are gone forever, as has happened to mine.

In fact im not convinced that they are a scam. There is the chance that a really big player went away and that the profit dropped because of that. At least i think he once mentioned something like a very big player on the site. They calculated profit with some algorithm so that profit spikes were flatted out. Thats why its theoretically possible that a big player went away and the profits dropped linearly from that time.

What i don't like is that they stopped communicating once profits went down. Though that happens with other ventures too. Another thing that looks a bit strange is that the profit drop stopped after i sold my shares. Maybe that was the timeframe they used to flatten out profits over time. The profits now are even lower but it looks like the website is still working.

If they would be a scam then i would think they would stop all things at some point. But it looks like the website is still working fine.

Regardless of how it is. I want to get in contact with the founders and shareholders. I hope i can speak with the founders. If now i want to connect with shareholders.

That sucks man, I feel your pain... Well, at least the community now knows for sure that playt.in is indeed a scam site.

DO NOT TRUST PLAYTIN!!!

Unfortunately i did not have the luck to get out of playtin unharmed. I already took my loss. I know i was stupid enough to invest there with these circumstances. I now wonder if the founders are legit or if it was a scam from the start. Of course i hope to get something back since if they are legit then my coins should still rest in the house.

Well, I can tell you that it's probably not a good idea to deposit bitcoin into a wallet that is on a site managed by unknown persons that cannot be reached, or will not act if something goes wrong. I don't think the admin will be coming out of the shadows any time soon. Although until this happened to me, I did have a positive experience with the site. I suppose if you are really careful and meticulous with your password management (as I try to be, but unfortunate things do happen) and are okay with the risk of loosing your coins, then playt.in could work out well for you, as it did for me until I needed to contact the administrator. Be careful, I am not the only one that has had issues with this site. Best luck to you.

Im not sure what to think about playt.in so anybody here who invested there or even founded the site?

I want to get in contact.

Thanks!

Another bump because I'm still looking for the admin of http://playt.in -- I need help recovering funds...

Just bumping this incase playtin emerges...

Alright, well I love the site, it's brilliant, and if the admin pops out of the shadows and helps me out here than I will continue to use it and promote it as well. This is actually a great chance for the admin to restore some faith that has been lost because of his absence. I can prove that the funds were sent from my wallet, I even was able to create an account with the same wallet address that I sent the funds from by signing a message, so I really am asking the admin of playt.in to help a faithful customer out... Thanks for the support and replies, I really appreciate the help.

While they ceased communication, they are still maintaining their website, so if you put out the message they will see it at some point. If they will however offer support that is something else.

I tried very hard to retrieve the URL, unfortunatly I just happened be using the Tor Browser during this event, so there was no history to find. What else can I do? I have posted on their facebook, twitter,  etc. I will hack the private keys to that wallet address if I have to, I need those coins back...

Some time ago I had a problem with a DRK deposit. Probably 0.1 worth of BTC... I sent the coins into my account but even after many confirms they never appeared. I know other people had the same problem. It was probably due to a dead daemon or something. I saw people posting in facebook, I posted in bitcointalk. Some weeks after the coins appeared in my balance even though they had been innactive for quite some time when this happened. Sadly there is no direct way to contact them as far as I know. Maybe post here, and also in their facebook page and If they see your message and are kind enough to bother they'll reverse the transaction.

Have you tried resolving this on your own though? You can retrieve the quick registration URL from your browser history.

Hey, where is the admin of playt.in? I need to speak to him urgently, I just made a large deposit into a quick registration account and then my computer crashed on me and I lost the login link. I can prove the funds are mine, as I still have the wallet address I sent from. I can see the funds on the blockchain, sitting in the account, but I can't get to them... how do I get a hold of the administrators of playt.in? Please someone help?

Back online

I had goos experiences with them as well but had pulled all my investments away (at a slight profit) right after they stopped replying to messages and stopped being active overall. That's also when dividends prices started declining. Hope people won't get's scammed put of any coins.

I really saw them as trustworthy back in the day. I have some invested with them as well. They had a good business going on, I don't see the benefit of scamming. I would guess there is probably not much more then 100-200 BTC invested at the site..

Let's see if this is a temporarily outage first..

Yup, the website seems unreachable from here as well. Farewell (?) playtin.

Seems to be offline now?

What's up with the dividends, why is it falling so hard lately. A little bit more communication would be welcome.

I'm guessing that it's because of their absence. I have been waiting for a reply for weeks now. I have ~10 DRK that were sent to my address but they never appeared into my wallet. I contacted playtin in the forum but no one has seen my mesage and the problem is still not fixed. People are losing their interest.

Why has the return rate dropped so drastically in the last weeks?

No, this is just regular trading done by share owners.
We don't sell our own shares because then we would no longer make any profit

There is a huge sell wall. Is this you guys selling the new batch of shares?

Status update:
In the last 3 months a few hundred Bitcoin have been invested. After the latest rounds of large investments finally a huge amount of much needed liquidity was added to the stock trading by those investors and thus cooling down the slightly overheated share trade price. This makes shares again more attractive for small investors.

As a direct result of those investments all bet limits have been doubled compared to 3 months ago.

In other news, Darkcoin trading was recently added as to our coin exchange.

Status update:
Our bankroll shares program works almost perfectly.
There addition of new shares is slow enough to be sustainable. The 8% (@100 shares) fee seems to do the job as expected.
The only tiny issue is the share price - it is very high, currently at 170%. While that is a bonus for the larger investor, it makes it difficult for small investors to buy shares.
Anyway, the whole shares program is already a huge success and we are looking forward to the future development of it.

Yes it is annual.

There are actually 3 reasons why we have added this.
1) users use bad password, prefer an URL based account and so on. It is always bad when such an account is hacked, both for the user and for the site. We cannot force users to use 2FA but we can give them a reason to do this.
Note: a lot of our users use those URL based accounts, while most probably have a few browser extensions that can access those URLs. This is a time bomb ticking that can be countered by 2FA.
2) We had customers complaining that they get some interest at mcxnow. Well, we did the math and figured that it will not really cost that much.
3) There are certain gambling behaviors that could potentially generate more profit for the site as a result of this. We hope that because of this the net result of paying interest could become a profit for the site - time will tell.

Well, since only a small portion of those 4% is paid every 4 hours, you wont reach the whole 4% if you withdraw after a short time.

So I just had a look in Interest payments. Many things are not clear about this.

Is 4.00% an annual rate?

Since the founds are not used for any purposes that would generate profit why are you doing this? Out of the goodness of your heart just to make your users enable 2fA?

Above that you menioned that the interest is paid every 4 hours. How does that make sense?

Of course the daily revenue is anything but consistent, and quite often negative. But what is used for the dividend calculation is the sliding profit. And while sum(sliding profit)==sum(daily revenue) the single values are of course quite different.

The rationale behind this is to have a more consistent and hence more realistic dividend. There are numerous other casinos out there where investors can gamble on the daily revenue, we are not one of those. You can call us conservative but we prefer that PBBS pays a dividend as stable as possible.

In some sense this is similar to the very safe factors for the bet limits. We are operating with investors money and have thus chosen a very conservative and risk-averse approach. I know that sounds weird coming from a casino operator.

What caused the sudden drop in revenue on the 27th? You have incredible consistent revenue and suddenly it drops around 25% and stays there, again consistently.

If I can say something about SatoshiBet, it's that revenue is all but consistent. I've seen BitcoinVideoCasino's revenue as well, and it follows the same pattern of inconsistency.

There can be a big difference in volume based on time of the month/week, based on the current market, whale activity.. + there is the variance.

Your observation is correct. There are actually more buyers then sellers. For an investor this situation could be a good opportunity to seize since it is possible to create new shares well below the market value.

In fact we are one of the oldest provably fair casinos.

Yes, they are provably fair. Just click that check-mark button to open that pane. They even have an animation about their shuffling in there.

is playtin provably fair, can u prove?

Actually it seems that no one sells shares because of the very high daily dividend. And I am no exception.

This seems like a brilliant idea and completely impossible for them to manipulate prices.

There is a trading section on https://playt.in
You have to click "change mode" to reach it.

Where exactly are the shares traded ?

Shares are currently traded at 1.7 while "production costs" are only 1.08. This is a very huge spread...

We are proud to announce that on yesterdays daily dividend payment we reached slightly over 4 mBTC per share.
Full history data here: https://playt.in/#dividends#pbbs

A shareholder requested that for whatever reason. So we added it. The * means that it has a footnote. Scroll down to the bottom to see it. In the next update we will try to make this somehow more obvious.

Care to explain what Rate* in the divedend history means? I can't really understand what it is and how it's calcuated.

I would be interested in a group invest. Plz get me any info on PN.
I already have some shares, the payment is absolutely correct.

I would spend another 5 to 10 coins if the investment is big enough to cut down the fee.

Click on "change mode" and then select "trading" in the dialog

Where is the wallet and the trading platform for shares? I did not able to find it.

Don't be too harsh on MPOE-PR, some of the things she wrote in here actually make sense.
Just look around in the Bitcoin world, there are whole exchanges running on VPS, another famous failed one tried to replace half the OS with PHP, some sites promise insane interest without having any real income, most mining investments have a negative ROI or are simply a scam, etc, etc. There are tons of scams all over the place. So it makes sense to be very cautious.
That being said, one of the mistakes that she makes is concentrate to much on the legal and business side, and almost completely ignoring the technical side. For at least half the failed ventures the reason for failing was plain incompetence on the technical side.
So even when she actually don't like our own site, some parts of her postings still make sense. And she can look cute too, if those pictures were actually real...

People who refuse to follow basic business standards yet purport to be running a business, and who desire to handle other people's funds, are to be taken to task, regardless of whether they've already screwed someone over or are merely setting up to do so. This entire "let's be nice until we're all out of money" stance hasn't ended well for anyone, nor is it any sort of stance to get behind.

Being responsible means making the call now, not waiting until it's made for us.

MPOE-PR excuse me if I'm rude, but there are hundreds of scams out there. playtin doesn't seem to be one of them. If you want to to a job do it right!

There is no need to keep trying to built negative trust for someone that has never scamed bitcoins out of anyone.

Don't miss the free shares promotion: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/free-shares-promotion-playtin-casino-wallet-exchange-trading-545849

Actually the only thing you've been doing "since ages" is dodging the repeated efforts of others to point out a host of problems with your service.

When an investor buys a share from some other shareholder it is more or less a zero sum game for the site. The site earns only a 0.1% trading fee from the Bitcoin side of the trade.

If an investor creates new shares the bankroll will be enlarged by whatever number of shares the investor decided to create. This larger bankroll automatically increases all the bet limits, which in turn generates more profit for all shareholders.

What are you using the money raised from shares for?

Excellent point. We have enabled trading of fractional shares.

It's great that you've created shares but in my opinion, not everyone is ready to put ~1.4 btc into shares. If we were able to buy a fraction of a share just to expirement and see how it works that would be great.

Introduction
PLAYTIN is a long-standing Bitcoin casino, we are around since ages. To push our business forward we decided to offer an investment opportunity on bankroll shares to attract more high rollers to our site. Our casino is provably fair and supports instant deposits and withdrawals. We permanently improve our software to ensure the safety and coin stock of our customers. We deem privacy and anonymity a basic human right and so we do not track or store any sensitive customer data like real name, IP address, email address etc. In the last couple month we extended our business offering with additional features such as an online wallet, an alt-coin exchange and asset trading as described below.

This is how it works. There are two actual ways to invest in our casino:

• you create new PLAYTIN Bitcoin Bankroll Shares (PBBS)
• you buy shares over the asset trading from other PBBS owners.

So there are two opportunities to earn: first, you buy shares and collect the dividend on a daily bases. Second, you can trade shares in the asset trading section and gain profits from there.
The daily dividend is shown in the history page which can be reached over https://playt.in/#dividends#pbbs

PBBS – PLAYTIN Bitcoin Bankroll Shares
The bankroll consists of shares. Each share has a face value of 1 BTC. All stake limits are tied to the actual number of shares. The corresponding factors are chosen in a way that makes it impossible for the casino to go bankrupt. For detailed information open the PBBS asset details page.

Trading
The trading section of PLAYTIN is a feature which is online since a few weeks. We basically have implemented this feature to have a secure anonymous market for our own PLAYTIN Bitcoin Bankroll Shares (PBBS). Shares can be bought and sold on the market.
There are many requests for building up a secure and anonymous trading place for any kind of investment or papers issued by “anybody”. We will open our platform for third party in the near future. Read our updates for more information.

Exchange
As an answer to customer requests from the past we already implemented a coin exchange into our platform. Currently there are BTC, LTC, NMC, NVC, PPC, XPM and DOGE which can be traded. We may be willing to implement more (major) alt-coins on the trading platform in the future. Just get in touch with us to talk about this issue.

FAQ
Q: Why is there the possibility to create new shares? Will this dilute the profit for each share?
A: More shares enlarge the bankroll and therefore we can go up with the possible stakes in the casino. As you can see in the PBBS asset detail page, the highest possible stakes for each game are automatically tied to the amount of bankroll shares. While more shares lead to less profit on each one, for now, it is more than compensated by the increased profit caused by higher stakes. So in the long run a larger bankroll will lead to higher profits for every share.

Q: Why are we not showing more detailed numbers like revenue, costs, etc.?
A: We know our business. See for yourself in the PBBS dividend history page (https://playt.in/#dividends#pbbs) which payouts were done in the past. This explains more than any kind of fictitious numbers that others may present.

Q: Who are the people behind PLAYTIN?
A: Anonymity is our highest good. We respect that for our customers and for any kind of investor or trader. If we don’t know, we can’t talk and tell to anybody. We protect our customers and therefore we like to be protected too. If you don’t like to invest in PLAYTIN, please don’t. Go and use some other platform, some even claim to already have done due diligence for you.

Q: How will the dividend be paid out?
A: The dividend is paid on a daily basis right after 0:00 UTC. Just check your account.

Q: Will you limit the number of shares?
To protect early investors and prevent unsustainable growth some fee has to be paid when creating new shares.  For detailed information open the PBBS asset details page.