Topic: People not reading page 1 comments discussion thread. (Read 761 times)

Seeing that, as seen in previous posts, it is commonly accepted that one can comment without reading, even if you comment on the first page and have not read the comment before yours, I proceed to lock both threads. I might even start doing the same, lol.

As far as I remember I have only received clear support from you and 1miau, the rest have been scepticism, like 'but we know that nobody reads anything' even from people with a reputation and a lot of seniority in the forum, and others have simply not said anything, so it must not have seemed like a good idea in general.

And another thing is that I've set the bar low that it's very easy for people to escape being punished by the manager by not getting paid for reported posts, because if you have 25 posts of maximum paid quota, normally people write more, like 28 or 30, and many of them are going to be written on page 3 or more, so they don't meet the criteria to be reported.

So a likely scenario for a repeat offender is that they write 2 posts a week on page 1 or 2 but don't read the comments on page 1, however as they write a total of 30 and get paid 25 there are no negative consequences for them.

Can you really do that, knowing that you are already aware of this, and you will always find someone doing this because you are in the habit of reading and checking
discussions, if ever you abandon this thread and you leave it open or not locked there will always be one of us here reporting members who violate.
It's just a matter of time before many will take your lead and catch members.
And it's a good call-out for members who are in a hurry to drop their posts without reading the substance of the discussion.

Well, I'm thinking of abandoning the mission as mission impossible. Look at this thread:

Delete my account

It is full of examples and that is not the bad thing. The bad thing is that I reported it to be locked, because the thread was born of a confusion that has already been clarified, the moderators have left the thread open, leaving my report in unhandled and among the answers that are being added there are some that either partially repeat what has already been said or have not read the previous comments. In Meta. If that happens in Meta what won't happen in the rest of the forum.

I'll quote the great philipma1957 here


And now look at my reporting thread, where a user like JeromeTash, from whom I would expect a certain quality in what he writes, and that implies having read the posts on the first page, doesn't do so either.

So far you're doing great on your thread all the reports are valid and uncontested I will not be surprised if this becomes a reference for managers when accepting and retaining participants, the task is not easy and it sometimes takes time to catch those guilty.
So keep it up, but is there a sort of appeal for those listed in your report, or is there a time involved, I may have missed it but I did not see it in your rules for reporting.

What I don't like is to waste my time with people who don't stop talking rubbish, so I'm going to put you on my ignore list.

OK, I'll try to report it.

Why are you suddenly accusing me of being an alt account? Is it because you read the tags on my profile? If you have proof, please open a topic on the reputation board, I think what you are talking about is off topic

This is my third post, it seems like you don't like it when people have different opinions

No, is not off topic it's absolutely on topic and I challenge you to prove it is off topic by reporting the post. If it is off topic the moderators will delete it.

This is already the second time I've seen you talking shit in the thread, and seeing as you're probably an alt account, I understand why you're so nervous and get so upset when someone reports people for posting without reading.

You're not entirely wrong, but it's a different case as he said "off topic should be report to moderator instead of report in his thread".


I'm not that sure if it's 100% off topic (but you can report his post) because such post usually not get deleted by moderator, similar like user who only post about "move this thread" or "lock this topic" but the user write additional characters in order to meet the campaign requirement (150 characters).

People just don't like to read, everybody are concentrated in their own thoughts and selfishness to worried about to read other people posts'

I like a lot this:

Is this what is called off topic? and as far as I know, off topic is even worse because it is clearly prohibited by forum rules.

Don Pedro Dinero : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63127997

I think if you give a warning in the thread, then your writing will be off topic and also not related at all to the thread and question. That's the same as not reading the post the OP wrote

You can't control it, actually. Do you know that even many users don't read the post made by OP? They just reply based on the topic title. When companies and managers pay for posting on the forum, participants just think about meeting the weekly requirements. They just need to increase the post count. They really don't care about real engagement.

To be honest, identifying these types of users is too hard. Because the manager will not verify each post for each user in this manner. You may see a few users, and you bring up this issue. But sadly, everyone knows about this issue. I am pretty sure these users are not going to change their behaviour, or something else will start. It means it's quite impossible to prevent totally.

Well, let me explain to you the main reason why it is a good idea to create such a thread: because I think it will be a deterrent. Eventually people will know that there is a thread to report those who don't read the comments on the first page and I think that will make more than one person read them before writing the first thing that pops into their head to meet the quota.


If he disagrees, he can challenge it in the same reporting thread. But I will give you another example that I did not put on that list:


He later admitted the mistake, and as it is longer ago than the other two cases, I have not included it in the report.

Very interesting I may not agree with you creating a thread for this, but you do have a valid reason for BlackBoss_ case on that discussion I have presented the fact based on the article I provided, @BitDane already quoted me on that fact, if  BlackBoss_  only read those quoted post by @Bitdane then he will not base his posts based on assumption, obviously, he only relies on OP's thread.
Obviously, BlackBoss_  is not subscribed to the Bitcointalk bot, if he is, he will address your call out and maybe delete his thread or apologize, what's your take if you call out the member and he did apologize or delete his thread will he still be part of your report?

I think this is where another problems is coming from, most user finds it very difficult to just read the op instead are preferred replying with the title or topic of the post, I have also created similar topic and concern in our local sections but I got unwanted and invaluable feedback. Which I think it would be very hard for almost 50 percents users to read through all the first page or even read the second pages..
The only solution to this is for managers to set restrictions and limitations to their campaign not to post in thread order than 7 pages to 10 pages as few suggested which would help to reduce this spam because to me I can consider it spamming otherwise it's better to reports than involving the managers I believe they all had rules and regulations that guilds their applicant and I know too well that anyone who doesn't follow the instructions won't be paid but for you to pm manager not to pay their workers due to what you think is not important doesn't worth it at any cost. Its better their manager have the final decision and not you to decides whom the manager get paid or not.

Okay let say if such rules are being implemented don't you also think that we might face another problem whereby campaignner would keep creating unsolicited topics in other to meet their weekly quota? Yes we would also find out unwanted and irrelevant topic being flooded every day by day. Please don't quote me wrongly or misunderstood me but, I am also trying to drive a point whereby if a poster doesn't read through the first page and they went on making their reply it's assumed that they replied based on the title which the information they are trying convey may not have a clear passages to what the body of content is saying. At this point we can say they are lazy to read the entire op hence we can report such post to mod instead of involving their managers.

This same scenario again is what actually makes some users to always wanting to post first immediately op drops the topic this would also lead to another targets were campaigner would have to be active to always reply first page and guess what? Not all first page posters are quality posters most of them just speedily want to reply in order to gain merits because I have came across a post were someone posted immediately the op posts it and it was said to be alt of the op which also lingered to another problem whereby the replier has to defend himself not to be his alt rather always active to make sure he replied on the first page (2 to 3 ) after op. I think this case is complex case maybe very hard to handle because there are many dead thread we don't always reply or people don't finds its interesting because of this same issues, you would see someone will go rephrase a thread and create another topic to continue same discussion that was already been discussed in those thread but due to this same similar issues they are led to create another topic in other to keep their signature paid going.

To me the solution to this is report to mod and let the board keep going for more discussion, not every first page post are meaningful, we do have some meaningful and useful post even at page 20 or 30, then thing is people are too lazy to read op because if they do they would surely have a creative idea to make a great post, watch those who always have patients to read op their post are always genuine and different and you will know such poster isn't posting to meet their quota rather posting to pass knowledge. I think I have to stop here for now.

Thank you for your understanding..

I'm not talking about those posts. If you go to the two examples I have compiled, neither of them are low value or off topic. The first is on topic because it answers the question but by answering without reading robelneo's answer it is assuming something that has already been shown to be false. The second case is neither low value nor off topic, which is redundant because you haven't read what the OP himself said a few comments later on the first page.

The ones that are reportable I will report and the ones that are like these cases I will compile.


I'm not talking about that, so far I've been talking about cases that comment on the first page (or the first comment on the second page) and they haven't even read a couple of comments above, because if they had read them they wouldn't write what they have written.

I will specify it better in the reporting thread.

It's good that you posted that you will leave it all to the managers to decide and not what you previously posted that
and I'm sure this is a big help to the managers to assess the participants
behavior.

I think it should be on the behavior or mindset of the participant since the participants on many campaigns are not paid on a pay-per-post basis but on the maximum number of posts they completed, so if a participant only needs 25 posts and he did 35 posts and he only had 1 post reported here he still deserves to get paid.
What will sound an alarm for a participant to get tagged is post bursting because it is not good for the brand they are representing, participants without knowing or being aware of it may miss some posts and may have overlooked them when creating their posts, I have corrected some and they do apologize for that and I am also guilty of this and I also apologize and we move on and get better next time, it's as simple as that.

This is my opinion based on my experience, we all make a mistake from time to time and we just need a call-out, managers do it in their spreadsheet and not on the official campaign thread

I'm looking forward to the next thread about grammatical errors or missing punctuation  

3 threads in a row. nice! well, it looks like he found himself a niche that he is passionate about. he is dedicated. it's a noble cause. i'm sure he would not mind if someone would chip in and help him. 1miau is backing him up already. it would make a good laugh of him if he found a post not related to the topic nor to the OP but got merited. 
will watch the thread and cheer. 

Are you serious about creating a new thread for this issue? I agree with the other members and reporting to the moderator is a wise choice. Making lists won't have any impact unless they make it a habit. It seems like once or twice, sometimes we catch up with the number of posts, and that's quite logical because sometimes our busyness in the real world means we can't be online all the time.

Honestly, I don't agree if there is a thread list for users who don't read the first page, especially if the member only made a mistake once or twice, if what he did is a habit then it's worth writing on the list. Because being on the list was like destroying one's reputation because of a small mistake

Preparing a public list will not contribute to solving the problem. Look for the account’s posts. Is this a systematic behavior that account does to obtain payments or does that account ignore those who have replied above?

Make a list of 5 to 10 posts for each account and report them to the campaign manager. I expect the campaign manager to remove that member and send you the week's payments.

If the list was in private, it would reduce any new Reputation drama.

Recently?
Just several?
Am I still on Bitcointalk?

I get it that you're angry about some shitposters but you can consider yourself damn lucky if this is all.
I've come across shitposter who don't read anything other than the title and are competing based on that despite the first post being completely different, someone posting some crap on the third or fourth page without reading the previous stuff, it's annoying but it's also the norm nowadays.

Not that I'm defending those guys, but you had a nice journey so far around here till now if this was the first negative experience.


Hopefully, they get pitchforked!


Yawn, everyone used this nazi thing on everything that it lost all meaning, nazi this nazi that, nobody reacts to that anymore, replace nazi with
pomegranate ice cream and you get the same reaction, nothing!

Disclaimer: yahoo62278's post is as far as I've read in this thread, but I think his comment is all I really want to respond to.  What he wrote is true, and that last sentence there about people trying to meet their post quota for whatever campaign they're in has been true for probably longer than 9 years--and I've also never seen much of an improvement in my time here.

Except that the merit system might have improved post quality overall, but the effect hasn't exactly been overwhelming.  I'm not even sure if we'd see people not reading before posting even if sig campaigns and bounties suddenly went *poof*.  I've seen posts on reddit made by people who'd obviously not read a single thing in the thread they were posting in.

I guess if a post is of extremely low quality and it shows that the person making it didn't read even the first page of the thread, report it to the mods (as was already suggested).  Low/zero-value posts should be reported anyway.

all this BS posts just to show your signature! I would like to know if Stake will appreciate this kind of postings with their Signature?
I don't think so!

oh BTW you forgot to use the word Asshole

just quoting @Vod who is spot on (I fully agree with him)

This is a problem when you pay people to post.  You reduce the quality of discussions to benefits of eating tacos on Tuesday.

Looks like you found a fan to help you in this fantastic journey, of course who could that be other than a weasel trust abuser. You make a perfect couple.

I just have a question though? What will happen after listing all the posts of people that reply without reading the first page?

Don't tell me, you and your nazi friend will give them neutral or even negative, right? Because who really cares if 2 nazis run around the forum and individually harass forum members with threats, trust feedbacks, am I right or am I right?

The way I see some of you weasel nazis operate, soon it will be you and your alts all alone left here with nothing to do but circle fingering each other.😅

This thread has become on the first page what I didn't want it to be, a discussion thread. I will create a self-moderated one just for reports, which may contain some relevant comments, but I will leave this one for discussion.


For starters, you haven't read the comment in question, nor the other thread, otherwise you wouldn't advise reporting.


So if something has been going wrong for 9 years, we have to keep on doing it. Allow me to differ from your opinion.


Are you seriously suggesting that instead of people reading page 1, theymos should make a patch? LMAO


The best solution is to read before you comment.


That is the idea. We can all make a mistake or slip up at any given moment. By making a compilation, you will be able to see especially if there are people who repeatedly comment without reading the obvious. And I'm setting the bar low, eh? Just read the comments on page 1.

When you only find one or few mistakes he did, I think it's just a small mistake and should be corrected just by report to moderator, not necessary to report in a dedicated thread. Similar like users who apply a campaign before the campaign manager announce if he's looking for new participants.

I believe every people make a mistake, sometime I also make a mistake especially in technical discussion, should we need to report an user who make such mistake too? I would be one of them.

@OP don't get me wrong, reporting such user could be useful if you've report many of his posts and the moderators mark your report as "good", this mean the moderators are agree if the user not qualify the forum's standard.

Forum unlike blog is a place for discussions. You can agree with others and give some additional info or view, or you can disagree and say something in oppose, or you can side one point against others. But you are communicating with others in the topic, not only answering to the OP.

Simply answering to OP is a blog format: there is one blog author and others talk mainly to him. Forum discussion is different: all with all. If you open some topic and all answers in there are answers to a first post then of course no one is interested in reading all that similar answers without any additional info. It is boring and pointless. And if there was a discussion with some new ideas or separate points of view it could be totally different. So similar pointless answers kill any discussion and so make pointless reading topics and entering discussion. Self multiplicating problem. If Russian board was the same as some English sections in this way, I'm not sure I still was here.

Yeah, that would be nice if these posts like from Wapfika won't receive any reward of any sort.
Unfortunately, spotting and rejecting such posts would mean additional work for campaign managers, so maybe a community based topic to collect such stuff can be helpful, indeed.
Three strikes could result in a round of missed weekly signature campaign rewards.
Campaign managers checking OP's topic would also be very effective.
Or some sort of blacklist for signature campaigns if OP is willing to make a table of all names and posts of abusers:

Account	Date	Post link
__________________	___________________	____________
Wapfika	November 16, 2023	Link

 
There can be many strategies how to discourage this. Reduced rewards seem to be the only language these shitposters will understand. 

I don't know how many of us read all the comments from the first page before writing our thoughts. Let's talk about mine. I always try to read the OP; if it's interesting, I quote it and write my opinion. Yes, I also checked if similar comments were made or not. But as you understand, it's impossible to check those pages. But when it comes to reading the first page of replies, I do that. But still, sometimes we miss the answer that was in front of our eyes. I suggest others read before they post, yet I do the same thing and laugh at my own when I understand. This is a common mistake.

If a topic is of dozens of pages no one expects the newbie in it to read all the thread of discussion. But when we see that in the new topic the first page of posts is entirely of totally the same answers on the first post without anything new comparing with the first or the second answer post, it kills all the discussion.

It is so demotivating when you read main point of a discussion, read a couple of last pages (of 5-7-15-20-...) to know what in the direction of a discussion at the moment, come into it with your idea and then see many answers of the first post of the topic, that are totally ignoring all the discourse was before them. It kills a discussion in those topics. No sense in answering if nobody will ever answer you, if a significant part of the participants in a topic will answer only the first post again and again. Answering the first post on a third page has sense very very rare and nearly never it has any sense on the 4th page or further. And it never has any sense even on the first page if your answer is duplicating several the same before yours.

I do this a lot of time too. If I'm not active on the forum to meet a thread when it was created and I don't fit in on the first page, most times all I do is read through the OP, follow the first page comment, and then over to the last page comment and see the recent comments too. This is where if I have something to add to the table, I do that, and if I have nothing to say, I just work away.
 
In a thread of 1–10 pages, only a few members will have the time and energy to read through them all. That's just the simple truth. Unless the thread is really something of interest and there is simple information the person is looking for in it, it's not as if it's the best thing to do, but people just find it too lazy to do that as they want to focus their attention on other things. Most people prefer asking an already-answered question rather than going through the stress of searching for answers.

I'm guilty of that on a lot of tech sites.   Who has time to read through hundreds of comments to see if your specific question has been answered?

However, I do quickly browse the first page, since that's where most answers are referenced or stickied.   So I guess I would be OK here.

This is a problem when you pay people to post.  You reduce the quality of discussions to benefits of eating tacos on Tuesday. 

We should ask in meta about the administration opinion to see whether they condone a DT member who is supposed to represent trustworthiness and respectfulness of this community to run around and interact with people in such an undignifying manner or not.

---

Now my honest opinion, who the F do you think you are to act as a behavioural police to tell them what they should or should not do?  Wait, for a second I felt I'm talking about myself. 🤣  anyways, it's all good OP, keep going with full strength.

Funny how some people talk about reaching a quota for sig campaigns, as if they never managed a campaign with certain post quotas, or some others talk like they are not in a sig campaign spamming to reach the said quota.  I'm not talking about any particular person other than OP and yahoo. At least yahoo shows some decency even though he loves to act like tough guys, but inside he is soft, on the other hand, OP needs to learn about dignity and how to respect people he meets for the first time, just imagine you see some strangers talking, and you go straight to tell one of them why the F won't you listen to the other guy who is been talking and then go running to find his employer to tell them: Lo0k He DoEsN'T LiStEn So YoU nEeD tO fIRe HiM f0r ThAt!!!

The best solution I think of when you don't see a positive response from your intended user after a warning is - report the post to moderator.

You can report the user to the manager, but I don't think it will change the user's behavior completely even if he is removed from the campaign. This case is only about one user - but there are many other users who behaved the same way and not all of them have a signature on their profile. I tend to report posts like that to moderators rather than managers - but you can contribute in your own way.

I'm not the check thread you're talking about, but I know there are a really large number of such. I'm pretty sure that in those 27 pages, at least 50% of the posts repeat the same thing or something that was said but in a different way. I'm also pretty sure that no one or maybe very few users will read part of the discussion that takes place there.

Such threads led the managers to introduce a rule of not accepting posts in mega threads even after 5-7 pages.

^ this post should have been inserted into the OP so that users will be updated with what is going on under the thread. kinda like a note: update... under the first post.

everyone is trying to achieve the quota. if this is something that could be added to the rules in the forum, a lot of users will be purged because even the reply of the OP is not seen. maybe Theymos can make the OP replies under the thread be colored to be noticed so that people scrolling down will see some updates of what OP did after. or probably just turn this (OP) to pink?  

I don't know how long you plan on sticking around this forum, but I have been here 9 years and seen no changes as far as people reading the 1st page. I'm sure we all have been guilty of it at some point.

I notice the same thing said over and over in a thread. Sure, it might be worded differently, but it's still the same thing. People looking for that post quota.

Reporting a post or having the manager look into it is 1 possible solution but how do you know if the manager is actually looking into it? They may say thank you and disregard. If the issue doesn't stop(probably wont) then what?

Calm down and use the report to moderator button. You do not need to be over excited and create a dedicated topic about it.

I can not remember how many times I was in these type of conversations. If you go through meta board you will find many similar discussions or many posts with similar discussed contents where the main topic subject is different.

Unlocking this topic and a bump could save you from creating this topic. Now we have two similar topic from you in only a week time.

Nice.

Recently I have come across several cases of people commenting without reading the fucking comments on the first page.

I already commented on this in a thread in which I ended up getting fed up because even in that thread I found people commenting without having read, at least carefully enough.

People commenting on the first page without having read the previous posts.

The latest case I have just come across:


We're not talking about threads that are 27 pages long, it's just that they don't read the fucking comments on the first page.

I think the best I can do is to compile them here and I'll mention the manager in case he wants to consider paying them for those posts. In today's case, the manager is Little Mouse.