Topic: [PHM] - Power Hash Mining Announcement (Read 5756 times)

How to Exchange PHM Coin ...

I smell a private investor having stepped in, so not going public,
seems ciphermine is comparable and doing great....

however if your speaking the honest truth, i respect that, and wish you the best.

Ah well- seemed like an interesting idea.  Best of luck with other projects. 

Building up bitcoin is always the core goal so the more projects the merrier
If we can get Grandma to use it without needing to understand the details I will consider victory achieved haha

Thanks!
Still when time permits, I have a bunch of other Bitcoin related projects to release. None as of right now that would involve requiring investments, but still!

No problem did not mean it sarcastically, quite the opposite I appreciate your team listening to investor concerns and taking the time to re-think your strategy. Again I wish you the best of luck on your ventures.

Well, there were orders for, or buyers lined up for almost 200,000 of the first set of shares.

So, if we let this launch there would have been a whole lot of buys. But we did not feel comfortable in even letting it get to this stage before working out more specific details. We just felt at the current time, it is better this way.

Well it is true that no one has put any money into this at the present time so best of luck on your ventures and possible future release.

I will like to announce that this fund will no longer be run.

Before I start, I'll like to say its after 2am and I am struggling to stay awake. So dont pick too much fun at sentences that drag on, or just plain dont make sense.

At first, it started with the decision to pause the fund until a few new things can be worked out, such as a smaller raise to build things up slower and to answer any questions.

Upon further research we have decided it's just not feasible to run. For both us, or the public shareholders. Now, we could have easily decided to run anyways, raise the money and get things going with terrible returns for investors, as I have seen other companies do. This is not what we are about, and we realized simply stopping before ever accepting any funds from anybody would be best.

Thanks for the interest, questions, and the time put into this. I have already sent out an email to Havelock hours ago about this to have it delisted.

Maybe in the future we will run a new and even more tempting fund.

I will still be around to answer any questions, or can be reached directly at: [email protected]

Thanks!

Please sent PM's to those who are interested when this become online.

Hi everyone, just wanted to make an official post here, to thank everyone in the community for their questions and concerns regarding the PHM IPO.  We are working with PHM now to refine the details and will re-announce soon.

Just so everyone is clear -- We do perform very extensive due diligence on our end before listing an asset. We still turn down/reject many, many more asset requests than we approve.  For any that we do decide to list, you can be assured we have worked with the fund manager for at minimum several weeks (sometimes much longer) before launching.  We never rush into any asset listings.  That said, everyone should still perform their own due diligence before making any investment (this applies to bitcoin-world, and real-world), so it is very encouraging to see this type of constructive discussion occurring.

Stay tuned, a more refined and detailed PHM IPO announcement is in the works.

Cheers
 James

..."In mid-2013, the idea came online to build the first coinraping machine and sell shares.  Many people had this same idea, but it was a race to the idea, as are many good ideas."

PowerHash – Good replies, and thanks for clearing up a number of points. I’ll see if I can tidy the post up a bit so we don’t end up with a massive wall of text


Excellent news, and thank you for taking time to consider our questions


That’s good advice, and I was in the same situation months ago. I’ve discovered that, overall, it’s better to release slowly than to toss out the word “million” to investors. Staying low will help you get a feel for how the public reacts to your investment opportunity…knowledge I wish I had when I started off.

Also, are you planning on maintaining the $0.20 per share for the IPO as well as later releases (if there are any)? Just curious, especially given the recent vast price fluctuations.


Makes sense, and thanks for clearing that up. Given the hardware quantities you’re ordering, is there any way to get all the parts / cards wholesale? Maybe you’d be able to work something out with BitcoinStore? I’m not sure anyone has these capabilities, but it still may be something to consider checking out.


It’s hard to say without looking over the numbers, but most managers take 5% off the top. Given all expenses are already taken out of any generated revenue prior to dividends, a smaller managers fee seems more reasonable.

Are you planning on purchasing up a percentage of shares in the fund? [EDIT: Found the answer to this at the end, but that’s ok]. If so, then you’d be paying yourself dividends on top of the manager’s fee, which may make up the difference (depending how much you buy in).


Thanks for clearing that up. With this data in mind, do you have any profit (revenue – expenses) projections for a week/month (just an example)? I can’t say I follow Litecoin all that much, so I’m not terribly versed in its past network hashing speed and average difficulty increases (more on all this momentarily).


Ah ok, I see what you’re saying. I feel like there could be complications down the line for this, but for whatever reason I can’t put my finger on ‘what’ or ‘why’. I’ve spent the last 10 minutes thinking through scenarios where good and bad things can happen, but they seem to work themselves out.

Anyway, it’s probably just me. I prefer the “set limit” method to issuing shares (what ASICMiner, HIM, and others have done), where there’s only so many shares issued and will never increase or decrease. It makes predicting dividends a lot easier and no need to worry about more shares popping up later on


I presume the startup expenses you’re referring to (aside from GPUs) are the cases, racks, cooling, power, etc? Or does it also include the fixed costs (labor, rent, etc)?


Got it, thanks for the clarification.


How do you decide which coin to mine, or how to split between the various coins? Would it be something you’d decide on daily, weekly, or sporadically based on market conditions?

And yes, these are hard questions to answer since there are quite a few factors at play!


Very cool, thanks for the information and I’m glad we could hash through quite a bit of this!

On network difficulty, I certainly agree with you there. It’s one thing to pull together data and averages to try and predict where the Bitcoin network will go…but that becomes quite a bit more convoluted as you jump between Litecoin, Bitcoin, Feathercoin, etc, etc.

My advice on this would be to grab as much data on how Litecoin has been growing over the past 2 (maybe 3) months, take an average, and try to extrapolate that over the next 3 months. Add in the data on your operation and how you see yourself growing, and with that you’ll have an idea regarding revenue. It’s not perfect of course, but seeing sensible numbers on paper will certainly put minds at ease.

If there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s to under promise and over deliver. I look forward to seeing how this project develops.

It would be good to have a Google spreadsheet showing the expected costs (upfront and running costs) and the expected revenue from mining. For example, you could assume you will solely be mining LTC, make some estimates of future difficulty, assumptions about future BTCLTC rate and when your mining capacity will come on line. Then you'd be able to show the expected dividends. This would really make it a lot clearer what you intend to do.

By the way mega hash is abbreviated to MHash. Small m is short for milli, big m is short for mega.

This looks like it could be a good asset to invest in.

Good reply, so http://wemineltc.com/news would be the good place to catch up with your work up to now.  But yes pictures in electronic form, uploaded to the internet, are pretty high tech too.  running off USB drives seems bleeding edge, I bet IT dork-ness could become a black hole in some cases, in respect to BOTH how you run the mining servers and also defend against DDOS, which is as sure as winter.

So you need IT defense (network uptime), and IT offense (mining)  ...Havelock as well, deals with the same DDOS firehoses.  Hopefully cryptowars do not perform charred earth tactics on cryptocoin as a whole.

Its interesting to observe these coinravaging processes.  Also interesting that LTC seems to cling to BTC's belly like a 2.50 cent remora fish.  I bet BTC wishes it could shed the weight of LTC, but I think LTC will more likely rise to the double digits range, which will shock everyone, but its obvious when BTC has support at these levels, and LTC will therefore become buoyant upward.

Daily dividends are nice, because they allow one to shave profits off, because technical issues in cryptocoin will surely result in some flatlining moments, buying opportunities, etc.  This is a 20-30+ year market, so I expect it to be a rough but potentially wealthmaking ride.

Glad to see the response, thanks for those who are trying to bring real money back to the people.  Crypto is like gold, as to wealth preservation during hard times, but not just for the rich as with gold, but for everyone who can get a wallet and some coin.

Some smart people need to do some math on how these LTC/scrypt coins are going to perhaps rise to BTC levels, when the banks seize assets as they did during the Cyprus seizure and BTC spike.

Let us hope the deadmans switch at Havelock works so that the CAD BTC can provide a safety net against total money collapse, for people all around the world.  Thanks eh.  Canada is such awesome place and people.

Thanks for the reply was going to suggest an IPO delay as well as previously posted but you replied as I was about to post since it gives people time to propose good questions and for investors to digest the new information

On the BFL details glad your looking at the alternatives and will look forward to seeing your units

I would prefer Korbman's reply to the questions so withholds further comment

Looks like not much thought has gone into this ipo still surprised havelock are running with this

I agree with this sentiment until we get a reply from the official issuer I am uncertain.

I would like a reply to the questions raised here before the IPO launch, according to the ISP data the domain is only a week and two days old.
The IPO launch was announced only 3 days in advance and the issuer is a brand new account on the forums.
A proper reply from the issuer or lightbox/havelock would go a long way here to clear some suspicions and give us a bit of information on the holder of this asset.

Creation date: 04 Jul 2013 21:44:00
Expiration date: 04 Jul 2014 21:44:00
http://whois.net/whois/powerhashmining.com

That changes the whole complexion of things obviously - it's rather important information to have forgotten to include.  It's actually one of the worst errors made commonly on IPOs here - not identifying current assets and obligations.

Anf of course there's a big difference between buying the BFLs for what they cost in BTC (ridiculous) and buying them for what they cost in USD (reasonable).

Thanks TAT for this.

One of the difficult things to do, is to explain moral hazard in relation to trust at the IPO level.  You have put your rep out there and delivered, thanks.  It's the case that they may pick and choose what portions of your advice, to accept?

Thanks for all you do.

I had a conversation with PHM before this announcement. It looks like some of the details discussed were not included in the final version here. While I cannot speak for PHM, it was my understanding that the funds for the IPO will be owned by the shareholders under PHM, but that the current market value of the BFL orders and the GPUs will be deducted in order for the fund to buy the equipment and own it. He quoted the BFL value as what they paid for them in cash, but we did not discuss how they would determine the value of the GPUs.

PHM, please update the details to clarify that the fund owns money raised via the sale of shares, and what exact cost will be deducted to purchased the existing equipment/orders.

I think perhaps havelock may wish to put this ipo out farther, suddenly this stuff is all showing up on their board, and indeed, their board is like a coin itself.  Having fewer issues, retains credibility.  But so far so good, so thanks to lightbox.

But yes, clearly there needs to be time to write this up like a government grant.  There are huge chapters missing, from the prospectus which is not going to be required.

If exchanges want to survive as such, they will have to toe a certain line, this is like acting as if there is no line.  I mean mining altcoin??  DUH.  It is not a stroke of genius.  But whomever succeeds in this lofty goal as stated in the issuer's few words, will be the ipo that has lots more detail.  Sure, push this one out a week and give five times more data, and I bet it will soar.  

There is a lot of room for something like this.  Even if it doesn't go well, or my advice is ignored, I'll be using this thread henceforth to discuss issues like this as they crop up, which they surely will.  But sure, mining altcoins and passing daily dividends on?  Frikkin duh.  If I had the time I might do it myself, maybe my own ipo will be forthcoming by the Fall.

But thanks to those persons who are reliable and run these fine exchanges, day trading bitcoin stocks makes more coin than mining does.  So thanks to lightbox and his peergroup, because their service is appreciated.

More info on this, and it might be the first real horse out of this gate.  Of course like Facebook, the IPO could just be designed to completely screw investors, but if you just have ipos that are designed to pop then fizzle, you're basically pissing in your own soup bowl.  So this is a very important ipo and thread, I say it came onto the radar too fast at this point, but for speculation, well, ipo is spelled p-o-p in the old days of equities.  But equity means, as explained by others, that you are mining and have substantive operations.  This is not like a loan office where they give you a business loan, pics and more demonstration of nitty gritty knowledge and previous follow through on that would help.

In fairness, if I was trying to sell 2 BFL preorders + a few GPUs for $60k I wouldn't be too keen on clarifying either.  Which is what we have to assume to be the case given the total lack of clarity on the very key point of whether the funds raised by IPO go into the fund or into the issuer's pocket.

This will be a major flop. The IPO issuer is not willing to clarify squat!

Why?  You think there's more than 3 people who will buy it if the operator doesn't clarify things?

Can the Havelock admins look at lowering the maximum allocation of shares per user for this one?

2400 KH/s   and 300,000 Share's....

that is nothing per Share...

and the BFL Stuff needs so much time to deliver..

Also,


Yes, because GPU mining Bitcoin is the way to go.

An excellent post Korban, hope it will teach fund managers how to write their IPO statement correctly. You should make some sticky post with general guidelines, it will have more visibility.

Welcome to the forums! Launching an IPO is a good way to introduce yourself to the community and showcase your reputation.

Is this going to be sandstorm all over again? 100 000/300 000 shares per user seems moot.

I agree with posters some information about you would be a good starting point, or how about a picture of this so called mining room for starts.

I have held respect for havelock I just hope this ipo is not their undoing .

Korbman, I think your post is great since it teaches newbies what to look for in a bitcoin security. However, the poster is likely a scammer, and if not, is incompetent based on the poorly written IPO.  Only a fool would invest based on this prospectus and you know what they say about a fool and their bitcoins....

Ok!
If you are indeed a new account (not an alt of someone else), then let me start by saying welcome to the forums! It’s not often you see a legitimate account pop up who starts off their tenure on the forums by launching an IPO.

For those of you that read my other post, this will sound familiar (but still rings true). I respect the decisions made by Havelock administrators, even though I don’t necessarily agree with their decisions. I’m quite surprised by the recent changes, particularly by the astonishing lack of information recently perpetuated by Havelock administration and individuals looking to host their funds.

That said, this isn’t about Havelock, this is about PowerHashMining [PHM], so I’ll keep on topic.

As a forewarning, my responses may sound rude and/or condescending, but I assure you I don’t intend for them to come across that way! I imagine it as if you and I are sitting at a table and I’m asking these questions with more of an upbeat attitude. My goal here is to try and pry as much information as I can about what you’re trying to do. I am not alone in my skepticism, so this will be an opportunity to clear the air.

Generally speaking, the willingness of the OP to thoroughly answer any and all questions can be indicative of the effort they’re willing to put into their business.

Here we go…


[1] – This is impressively short notice when we no really nothing about what you’re trying to do or who you are. Why Monday, July 15th, and why 300,000 shares?

[2] – Hoping to add, or will add? In monetary terms, how much will it take to get up to 50MH/s? What equipment will you purchase?


Just to make sure I’m reading this correctly, whatever is generated within a week (Wednesday to Wednesday) is the revenue. From that amount, you will deduct all expenses for that week (rent, electricity, any replacement parts, and cover any repairs). [1]
From what’s left over, you will keep 15% as a “management fee”, distributing the rest as a dividend.

So we’re essentially purchasing the hardware for you…and giving you 15% (after expenses) just because “labor”? I can understand the expenses part, but 85% (after all expenses) is quite shallow given you’re asking for our coin.

[1] – Bunch of questions here:
How much is rent per month?
How much is electricity per kWh?
How much power does your rig currently consume?
How much power will the fully developed rig consume?
How often do the GPUs break, and when they do what fails first?
How much do replacement parts cost?


So you will, without a doubt, dilute our shares in the future?


Just so I understand, should you sell the full 300,000 shares (valued at $0.20 each), you’re plan with the $60,000 is to purchase $1,600-ish worth in BFL gear, and push the remaining $58,400 in GPUs for alt-coin mining?

I don’t think I have a problem with that plan, I’d just like more detail on the GPUs. And why BFL? Why not splurge the extra $400 for a 100GH/s Mercury from KnC?


Not sure I see any real problem here, though I could be overlooking something other forum members will point out. If anything, I suppose dilution will be a problem with voting rights, but that’s far down the line (supposedly).


Uhh…but you just said there’s voting rights? So shareholders get to vote “upon decisions that affect shareholders as a whole or changes to this agreement” ..but then you reserve the right to change it regardless?
Or are you saying that we can vote on the changes, but only you have the ability to implement the change?


This is guaranteed to happen. You haven’t specified how you plan to expand your operation, so I can only assume you’ll mine on 50MH/s until your hashing power is drowned out by larger or more efficient operations.


Pretty standard stuff.


Final thoughts:

With all honesty, I like the idea. Building up a large scrypt mining operation can certainly generate an income, but this investment is still quite risky.

After going over everything, here are my final questions to you:

-- Who are you? You joined today and yet you’re already asking for $60,000 worth of Bitcoins. In my experience, rarely has any offering fitting this pattern NOT been a scam. I’m not saying you fall in this category, I’m just saying it’s a bit odd, that’s all. Trust is a HUGE factor here..or at least to established members (newbies throw money at everything and anything).

-- Proof of Mining? Where are you currently mining now where we can see the 2.4MH/s in action? What GPUs are you currently using?

-- Financials? Do you have any financial and network models where you show where you think the network is going to go (for Litecoin or the other alt-coins)? As a potential investor, I want to see you do your due diligence on hashing speeds and how our hardware will ultimately benefit us in the end.

-- Your Investment? What are you putting into the fund? Anything other than the already established 2.4MH/s?

Bottom line here is TRANSPARENCY. Give us detail..so much detail that if we printed out each word we could literally swim in pages. Investors want to see what you're doing with their money down to the smallest detail. If you can do that, while providing a reasonable investment opportunity and managing your fund correctly, then I can assure you money won't be a problem in the future.

*grumbles in an old man voice*
Where is my walking stick to go harass a lightbox

That said an alt coin entity is interesting the BFL's well good luck similar to Korbman so not really an issue there just need to wait on a delivery.
That said it bugs me
According to TAT the order is from April however the wording clearly says plans of purchasing does that mean that some units have been ordered already.

PHM also has plans of purchasing 2 ASICS from BFL

Can I propose a shareholder motion to not order from BFL currently based on past history but to look at alternatives or is that too soon to propose a motion

Ordering now will in my opinion be a bad idea for investors right from the start due to the backlog and I would not want to have investors having an orderbook set for now.
http://bfl.ptz.ro/

To the questions

PHM will mine alt-coins, including, but not limited to, Litecoin, Terracoin, Freicoin and any currently profitable crypto-currency available. Our hashing power will be aimed at different coins depending on each coin’s potential profitability. These coins will be sold at market to maximize their value and convert them into Bitcoin for dividend payment. Funds raised will go towards the expansion of our mining operation.

Shareholders own all PHM mining equipment. Currently, PHM is GPU-mining Litecoins at approximately 2.4Mh/s. We have an established dedicated mining room, which is properly temperature-controlled and secured.

How is potential profitability deduced and can we see the units

Buyback Rights
The issuer has the right to buy back shares at any time at a price equal to 105% of the highest price seen during trading of the previous 7 days.

The highest price over the last seven days can you explain this one a bit more seems a bit too easy to manipulate I don't want to see another Sandstorm IPO share rise/drop

With that said due diligence on page 1 completed waits for some good questions from the usual suspects ^^
Welcome to the forums an IPO already that's intense

Registered the same day as the post always gives me alarm bells.

Deprived, are these guys legit? How can I tell? I want to buy shares.

So are those added to the fund for free - or is some portion of the funds raised from IPO being taken in return for them?  If so, how much?

lol (laugh of a good faith)
be not too strict to young's. give them a try - both Sandstrom and these
pure criticism does help rarely, mentoring - mostly.

So how do I know this is not a scam? Why should I trust you guys?

*grumbles in an old man voice* Back in my day, Havelock actually did a thorough check on users, their business model, and finances before hosting them on the Exchange...oh the times, they are a changin' ...

Anyway, I have no problem with establishing a mining fund for alt-coins. The concept is solid, but the execution..well..could be better. I'll dissect this one and rain down questions in a bit, same as what I did for the "Sandstorm" asset. Twice in one day..phew, this is rough

Ah. The original post reads as if they haven't even ordered yet. While the actual situation is better....BFL's track record of shipping still does not inspire confidence.

I talked to them and the BFL orders are actually from April, I think they may have messed up the wording on that...

I am quite faimiliar with scrypt mining.

I (seemingly failed) to show skepticism towards the original post. The contract on a whole is still quite vague, and statements such as "up to 50 mhash" do not do much to clarify any specifics- it's just filler language. On top of that, they say they plan to purchase ASICs from BFL.....which is likely a terrible avenue.

Roughly $65k for 50 MH/s.. I need to setup a scrypt mining company 


Can't tell if you aren't familiar with scrypt mining, didn't pick up the fact that he was stating scrypt mining speeds, or you are trolling. I'll assume one of the former.

Not sure in which way you mean that?

As in "thats nothing", because you are comparing it to SHA hashing? (And in that case, 50mhash SCRYPT is essentially the equivalent to 50GH on SHA)

Or "That's a lot to expect"

Woah, woah. That sounds pretty ambitious.

Fund canceled. Please see my latest post in the following thread for more details:  https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2753294


Hello!
We are proud to announce the upcoming IPO of Power Hash Mining. On Monday, July 15th, we will release 300,000 shares to the public.

PHM is dedicated to mining the latest crypto currencies while maximizing profits through choosing the best coins to mine and sell.

After our initial raise, we are hoping to add up to 50 mhash to our network and further expand from there. Below is the official release information.

Official Asset Page: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=PHM
Mining stats and news will be listed on http://PowerHashMining.com when available.

After our initial raise, we are hoping to add up to 50 mhash to our network and further expand from there. Below is the official release information.

Let this be the official thread for discussion and questions!