Topic: Physical Bitcoin for the 3rd World (Read 883 times)
Currently, when you receive a note, there is no guarantee that it is not empty - and even if it is verified after you receive it. If the trace has been erased in a manner that is not obvious, once the issuer signs, you're out of luck. It could still be spent before you try to redeem it. The design doesn't need to be changed at all, but the security before and after circulation should be beefed up, as I suggested in my previous post. The more that issuance and redemption restrictions are automated, the better. It doesn't matter who the issuing (or de-issuing) party is, as long as notes are guaranteed to contain the funds while in the wild.
Now that I have discovered an exquisite counterfeit-resistant note that requires 2 signatures to be redeemed, I am interested in discussing ways to reduce the need to electronically verify the note to the point where anyone who receives the note will instantly know that it is valid. In this way it can be used like cash.
1) Before the note is circulated, it will need to be loaded so that no one inadvertently receives an empty note. In order to remove arbitrary trust, it will need to be guaranteed at face value by the issuer - probably via an escrow contract. A government entity with unlimited funds would be ideal.
2) When a bill is redeemed, it will need to be irreparably destroyed in order to eliminate circulation of the emptied note. This will also require an escrowed guarantee of some sort, preferably automated via oracle as well. A notary or other verifiable witness will likely be needed before the second signature is made.
Solidity?
Tapscript?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/info-offline-cash-bitcoin-notes-5402259
1) Before the note is circulated, it will need to be loaded so that no one inadvertently receives an empty note. In order to remove arbitrary trust, it will need to be guaranteed at face value by the issuer - probably via an escrow contract. A government entity with unlimited funds would be ideal.
2) When a bill is redeemed, it will need to be irreparably destroyed in order to eliminate circulation of the emptied note. This will also require an escrowed guarantee of some sort, preferably automated via oracle as well. A notary or other verifiable witness will likely be needed before the second signature is made.
Solidity?
Tapscript?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/info-offline-cash-bitcoin-notes-5402259
Indeed, who in this case will be the issuing center, if it is a user, then there must be a mechanism for debiting coins from his wallet upon presentation of a printed bill, for this it must be accepted by a sufficient number of institutions, in this case you simply buy these bills by paying for them and the built-in nfc chip allows them to be used where cryptocurrency is accepted. Secondly, why complicate everything with unnecessary manipulations, if it's enough just to have a credit card with your crypto account.
Ballet crypto pure series wallets and polymerbit notes work perfect for your idea
To my knowledge, both of these products are sold empty. The problem with openly selling preloaded btc notes in the United States is that the seller must comply with onerous federal regulations severely resticting money transmitters. Originating the notes in countries such as El Salvador and the Central African Republic, on the other hand, will make it possible to prevent the circulation of unbacked notes - which do not require special verification.
Ballet crypto pure series wallets and polymerbit notes work perfect for your idea
I would use your idea in the opposite direction, national currencies to be moved to the blockchain.
CBDCs (central bank digital currencies) are the worst possible use of blockchain, and where the world is currently headed. National banks will attempt to preserve their ability to arbitrarily print unbacked notes (debase currencies) at will. But worse than reducing their value while artificially funding their tyrannical pogroms, they would love to be able to expire them. This is much different than the "expiration" of offline cash notes. Offline cash notes can empty the btc to any digital wallet throughout their lifetime, and, upon maturity, the holder of the note doesn't even require a second signatory to do so. CBDC notes, on the other hand, will not allow redemption in any form. They will literally expire. No backing.
The whole point of bitcoin is to escape from manipulable centralized statist currency monopolies. Offline Cash extends the benefits of bitcoin to the physical world, much like gold-backed currencies (which are also despised by politicians), but even better.
Now that I have discovered an exquisite counterfeit-resistant note that requires 2 signatures to be redeemed, I am interested in discussing ways to reduce the need to electronically verify the note to the point where anyone who receives the note will instantly know that it is valid. In this way it can be used like cash.
1) Before the note is circulated, it will need to be loaded so that no one inadvertently receives an empty note. In order to remove arbitrary trust, it will need to be guaranteed at face value by the issuer - probably via an escrow contract. A government entity with unlimited funds would be ideal.
2) When a bill is redeemed, it will need to be irreparably destroyed in order to eliminate circulation of the emptied note. This will also require an escrowed guarantee of some sort, preferably automated via oracle as well. A notary or other verifiable witness will likely be needed before the second signature is made.
Solidity?
Tapscript?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/info-offline-cash-bitcoin-notes-5402259
1) Before the note is circulated, it will need to be loaded so that no one inadvertently receives an empty note. In order to remove arbitrary trust, it will need to be guaranteed at face value by the issuer - probably via an escrow contract. A government entity with unlimited funds would be ideal.
2) When a bill is redeemed, it will need to be irreparably destroyed in order to eliminate circulation of the emptied note. This will also require an escrowed guarantee of some sort, preferably automated via oracle as well. A notary or other verifiable witness will likely be needed before the second signature is made.
Solidity?
Tapscript?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/info-offline-cash-bitcoin-notes-5402259
doesn't it seem that digital things are too involved in something that should be prioritized through physical value?
the name itself, "3rd world" was created due to the backward use of advanced technologies.
however, I would use your idea in the opposite direction, national currencies to be moved to the blockchain.
1 - who will prevent you from printing unlimited notes?
2 - who will regulate and issue these notes?
In Africa, corrupt governments are very tough, they love centralization and total control of the population, and more they love the local currency very much, they always sing the same song: "our local currency is the symbol of our sovereignty, and our story ". so if you arrive with a note that is not from any country in any country in africa they can arrest you! just be careful when it comes to getting involved with governments in africa
As long as the notes are loaded with btc, their issuance is strictly limited to the supply of btc on the note. An escrow account or simple smart contract guarantees that the issuer doesn't circulate the notes before they are loaded, and prevents them from being circulable once they are redeemed. This would eliminate the need to frequently verify the note.
The ability to verify the note electronically, by those who have the means, is a second layer of security regarding the integrity of the note.
Regimes that claim to be friendly to bitcoin would still be subject to the smart contract, and could freely issue the note under those parameters. But bitcoin notes do not require any "government" in order to function. Their acceptance of bitcoin and especially bitcoin notes facilitates and speeds the inevitable bitcoinization of the world economy.
Now that I have discovered an exquisite counterfeit-resistant note that requires 2 signatures to be redeemed, I am interested in discussing ways to reduce the need to electronically verify the note to the point where anyone who receives the note will instantly know that it is valid. In this way it can be used like cash.
1) Before the note is circulated, it will need to be loaded so that no one inadvertently receives an empty note. In order to remove arbitrary trust, it will need to be guaranteed at face value by the issuer - probably via an escrow contract. A government entity with unlimited funds would be ideal.
2) When a bill is redeemed, it will need to be irreparably destroyed in order to eliminate circulation of the emptied note. This will also require an escrowed guarantee of some sort, preferably automated via oracle as well. A notary or other verifiable witness will likely be needed before the second signature is made.
Solidity?
Tapscript?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/info-offline-cash-bitcoin-notes-5402259
1) Before the note is circulated, it will need to be loaded so that no one inadvertently receives an empty note. In order to remove arbitrary trust, it will need to be guaranteed at face value by the issuer - probably via an escrow contract. A government entity with unlimited funds would be ideal.
2) When a bill is redeemed, it will need to be irreparably destroyed in order to eliminate circulation of the emptied note. This will also require an escrowed guarantee of some sort, preferably automated via oracle as well. A notary or other verifiable witness will likely be needed before the second signature is made.
Solidity?
Tapscript?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/info-offline-cash-bitcoin-notes-5402259
1 - who will prevent you from printing unlimited notes?
2 - who will regulate and issue these notes?
In Africa, corrupt governments are very tough, they love centralization and total control of the population, and more they love the local currency very much, they always sing the same song: "our local currency is the symbol of our sovereignty, and our story ". so if you arrive with a note that is not from any country in any country in africa they can arrest you! just be careful when it comes to getting involved with governments in africa
Now that I have discovered an exquisite counterfeit-resistant note that requires 2 signatures to be redeemed, I am interested in discussing ways to reduce the need to electronically verify the note to the point where anyone who receives the note will instantly know that it is valid. In this way it can be used like cash.
1) Before the note is circulated, it will need to be loaded so that no one inadvertently receives an empty note. In order to remove arbitrary trust, it will need to be guaranteed at face value by the issuer - probably via an escrow contract. A government entity with unlimited funds would be ideal.
2) When a bill is redeemed, it will need to be irreparably destroyed in order to eliminate circulation of the emptied note. This will also require an escrowed guarantee of some sort, preferably automated via oracle as well. A notary or other verifiable witness will likely be needed before the second signature is made.
Solidity?
Tapscript?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/info-offline-cash-bitcoin-notes-5402259
1) Before the note is circulated, it will need to be loaded so that no one inadvertently receives an empty note. In order to remove arbitrary trust, it will need to be guaranteed at face value by the issuer - probably via an escrow contract. A government entity with unlimited funds would be ideal.
2) When a bill is redeemed, it will need to be irreparably destroyed in order to eliminate circulation of the emptied note. This will also require an escrowed guarantee of some sort, preferably automated via oracle as well. A notary or other verifiable witness will likely be needed before the second signature is made.
Solidity?
Tapscript?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/info-offline-cash-bitcoin-notes-5402259
In order to correct any misconceptions about the security and integrity of Bitcoin Cash, and regarding its level of decentralization, I am providing a link to a detailed description. Please review this carefully before commenting:
https://offline.cash/pages/bitcoin-note-security-overview
https://offline.cash/pages/bitcoin-note-security-overview
To create physical bitcoin doesn't look a good idea, because it's not supposed to work like this. Bitcoin demands internet access, so people can deal in real time person to person, without involving any central middlemen and barter systems.
A holder of bitcoin cash is not restricted from cashing in if he wants. No one is stopping him. Bitcoin cash simply allows the use of bitcoin offline. It is even environmentally friendly because offline transactions do not require electricity - which has been a big concern lately.
To have a central regulator issuing bitcoin cash officially raises a lot of doubts about the legitimacy of the process. For transparency and autonomy purposes it's better to simply work to connect people to internet faster as possible. Contact the government's agents, contact crypto businesses which will be benefited by the spread of internet access, contact philanthropist organizations which give assistance to third world countries.
To create physical bitcoin doesn't look a good idea, because it's not supposed to work like this. Bitcoin demands internet access, so people can deal in real time person to person, without involving any central middlemen and barter systems.
A holder of bitcoin cash is not restricted from cashing in if he wants. No one is stopping him. Bitcoin cash simply allows the use of bitcoin offline. It is even environmentally friendly because offline transactions do not require electricity - which has been a big concern lately.
So many of the people without electricity have a mobile phone, which means they go somewhere to charge it. It's also one of the most expensive countries for mobile data.
Even though "cheap" cellphones are more common than desktops and laptops, poverty inhibits Internet accessibility.To create physical bitcoin doesn't look a good idea, because it's not supposed to work like this. Bitcoin demands internet access, so people can deal in real time person to person, without involving any central middlemen and barter systems.
The new generations have an essential role in poor areas, so they can introduce the older ones to technology. We have been seeing this on this forum from times to times in different threads, especially at Bitcoin Discussion board. A week ago I've seen an african teacher who bought a laptop with signature campaign income to teach his students about bitcoin and blockchain. Step by step things are improving thanks to these people.
This is a very good thing because if people have physical coins rather than electronic form in their pockets, then they will be able to use them very easily because they will have their private keys as well as public ones in their coin and that would be a great option as a security feature available in coin
Your argument is extremely fuzzy, Are you saying that bitcoin notes won't work because you think that they are not easy for the visually impaired to use?
The Central African Republic has just declared Bitcoin to be legal tender, but 90% of the population doesn't have ready access to the Internet. I am exploring safe ways to use Bitcoin without having to connect to the Internet for every exchange. Ideally a paper wallet could be created in a manner that prevents anyone from memorizing or recording the private key before it is sealed.
I am also exploring a smart contract that guarantees (via escrowed funds and/or multisig) that no funds are released until the BitCheques are opened.
One truth we ought to realise is that, we are simply filling the gaps in the various systems of our world. Come a laps in a particular system, individuals look for means to make that situation better and that's what brought about the evolution of bitcoin. To fill the laps in the traditional monetary system of our world.I am also exploring a smart contract that guarantees (via escrowed funds and/or multisig) that no funds are released until the BitCheques are opened.
Most times, we view bitcoin to be some revolutionary currency for which, it has come to sweep fiat away and be what is acceptable all around the globe but this in itself is highly impossible. Its sadly not going to happen given that bitcoin have got some lapses too.
The technology of the Internet is not accessible by the visually impaired once around us and as such, bitcoin too. They can't own a wallet not to talk of a private key. Then, we talk about the issues of network which is lacking in most parts of our world. These are fill ups for fiat thus to say, they are both needed for a better functional society.
I discovered a very interesting patented technology that is very much in line with the goal of having a physical form of bitcoin that is readily exchangeable without Internet access:
https://mandrillapp.com/track/click/30895797/www.offline.cash?p=eyJzIjoiUVdWcTV1dUtmVnBXLWtYY1daVlRHcHhJOHY0IiwidiI6MSwicCI6IntcInVcIjozMDg5NTc5NyxcInZcIjoxLFwidXJsXCI6XCJodHRwczpcXFwvXFxcL3d3dy5vZmZsaW5lLmNhc2hcXFwvI2J1eT91c2VyQ29kZT13d2psa2pzXCIsXCJpZFwiOlwiMDM5OWE1NzY2NzQ3NDFhNGJiZGVmNWFiOTNiYzYzODNcIixcInVybF9pZHNcIjpbXCJmNGFkOTM5YjBiMjE1OTQzZDUyMWNmNjU3Nzk5ZWYzYzQwYjY0Njg3XCJdfSJ9
If you can find any bug in this note, let me know. I will be investigating it in detail. It looks like a lot of thought has been put into this technology.
https://mandrillapp.com/track/click/30895797/www.offline.cash?p=eyJzIjoiUVdWcTV1dUtmVnBXLWtYY1daVlRHcHhJOHY0IiwidiI6MSwicCI6IntcInVcIjozMDg5NTc5NyxcInZcIjoxLFwidXJsXCI6XCJodHRwczpcXFwvXFxcL3d3dy5vZmZsaW5lLmNhc2hcXFwvI2J1eT91c2VyQ29kZT13d2psa2pzXCIsXCJpZFwiOlwiMDM5OWE1NzY2NzQ3NDFhNGJiZGVmNWFiOTNiYzYzODNcIixcInVybF9pZHNcIjpbXCJmNGFkOTM5YjBiMjE1OTQzZDUyMWNmNjU3Nzk5ZWYzYzQwYjY0Njg3XCJdfSJ9
If you can find any bug in this note, let me know. I will be investigating it in detail. It looks like a lot of thought has been put into this technology.
This topic (Offline Cash) has its own thread which includes links to a FAQ and detailed description:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/introducing-the-bitcoin-note-physical-bitcoin-that-looks-and-feels-like-cash-5401680
Please check it out as these high tech notes get ready to be rolled out. I have been in communication with Cameron Robertson, the inventor. Very promising technology!
So many of the people without electricity have a mobile phone, which means they go somewhere to charge it. It's also one of the most expensive countries for mobile data.
Even though "cheap" cellphones are more common than desktops and laptops, poverty inhibits Internet accessibility. 
~snip~
There are many problems in the 3rd world country - one of the main issues is illiteracy and then the access to internet and there is non availability of smartphones to keep a track of the things. So the physical bitcoin won't be successful anytime sooner.
There are many problems in the 3rd world country - one of the main issues is illiteracy and then the access to internet and there is non availability of smartphones to keep a track of the things. So the physical bitcoin won't be successful anytime sooner.
Access to the Internet is done through smartphones in places like Africa.
Many people don't have a computer or laptop, but they do have a smartphone. Any cheap Android phone is capable enough to do anything really.
This was a thing in early 2010s, the poor countries basically skipped the PC era, and went straight into smartphones, mostly because they are extremely cheap comparatively (not a flagship of course).
Internet access through 3G at least, is almost everywhere
There are many problems in the 3rd world country - one of the main issues is illiteracy and then the access to internet and there is non availability of smartphones to keep a track of the things. So the physical bitcoin won't be successful anytime sooner.
Well, that's kind of the point, isn't it? The purpose of the notes is to make bitcoin as easy to use as fiat without the likely abuse (debasement) by government officials - which plagues fiat.
The technology is built into the note which alleviates the need to memorize passwords, pass phrases, or any other access keys. It also puts full custody in the hands of the bearer instead of a third party.
Just exchange the bill for a product or service like fiat.
It's cash.
If I think about all of this, wouldn't one of the main issues with the lack of internet connection be faked physical bitcoin bills? If you can not scan a qr code or validate in another way that there is really bitcoin behind it, how would you know that it is not simply a copy or a complete fake. So yes, in theory you could make bitcoin usable for people without internet with this system, but in reality it is actually not possible since you can't verify.
These notes have currency-grade anticounterfeiting technology. It would take at least an official North Korea style hack to duplicate. Unlikely. The patented time lock technology assures that the funds will be available at maturity regardless of the number of people who hold the bill in the interim.
The bills can be verified at any point with the built-in chip.
If I think about all of this, wouldn't one of the main issues with the lack of internet connection be faked physical bitcoin bills? If you can not scan a qr code or validate in another way that there is really bitcoin behind it, how would you know that it is not simply a copy or a complete fake. So yes, in theory you could make bitcoin usable for people without internet with this system, but in reality it is actually not possible since you can't verify.
There are many problems in the 3rd world country - one of the main issues is illiteracy and then the access to internet and there is non availability of smartphones to keep a track of the things. So the physical bitcoin won't be successful anytime sooner.
If I think about all of this, wouldn't one of the main issues with the lack of internet connection be faked physical bitcoin bills? If you can not scan a qr code or validate in another way that there is really bitcoin behind it, how would you know that it is not simply a copy or a complete fake. So yes, in theory you could make bitcoin usable for people without internet with this system, but in reality it is actually not possible since you can't verify.
The Central African Republic has just declared Bitcoin to be legal tender, but 90% of the population doesn't have ready access to the Internet. I am exploring safe ways to use Bitcoin without having to connect to the Internet for every exchange. Ideally a paper wallet could be created in a manner that prevents anyone from memorizing or recording the private key before it is sealed.
I am also exploring a smart contract that guarantees (via escrowed funds and/or multisig) that no funds are released until the BitCheques are opened.
well this is the problem everywhere. People in almost every country are unaware of Bitcoins and crypto. Also even if the people have access to internet. They want to buy video packages to watch youtube video rather than learning skills and understanding what currency will be in modern world. I am also exploring a smart contract that guarantees (via escrowed funds and/or multisig) that no funds are released until the BitCheques are opened.
I discovered a very interesting patented technology that is very much in line with the goal of having a physical form of bitcoin that is readily exchangeable without Internet access:
https://mandrillapp.com/track/click/30895797/www.offline.cash?p=eyJzIjoiUVdWcTV1dUtmVnBXLWtYY1daVlRHcHhJOHY0IiwidiI6MSwicCI6IntcInVcIjozMDg5NTc5NyxcInZcIjoxLFwidXJsXCI6XCJodHRwczpcXFwvXFxcL3d3dy5vZmZsaW5lLmNhc2hcXFwvI2J1eT91c2VyQ29kZT13d2psa2pzXCIsXCJpZFwiOlwiMDM5OWE1NzY2NzQ3NDFhNGJiZGVmNWFiOTNiYzYzODNcIixcInVybF9pZHNcIjpbXCJmNGFkOTM5YjBiMjE1OTQzZDUyMWNmNjU3Nzk5ZWYzYzQwYjY0Njg3XCJdfSJ9
If you can find any bug in this note, let me know. I will be investigating it in detail. It looks like a lot of thought has been put into this technology.
https://mandrillapp.com/track/click/30895797/www.offline.cash?p=eyJzIjoiUVdWcTV1dUtmVnBXLWtYY1daVlRHcHhJOHY0IiwidiI6MSwicCI6IntcInVcIjozMDg5NTc5NyxcInZcIjoxLFwidXJsXCI6XCJodHRwczpcXFwvXFxcL3d3dy5vZmZsaW5lLmNhc2hcXFwvI2J1eT91c2VyQ29kZT13d2psa2pzXCIsXCJpZFwiOlwiMDM5OWE1NzY2NzQ3NDFhNGJiZGVmNWFiOTNiYzYzODNcIixcInVybF9pZHNcIjpbXCJmNGFkOTM5YjBiMjE1OTQzZDUyMWNmNjU3Nzk5ZWYzYzQwYjY0Njg3XCJdfSJ9
If you can find any bug in this note, let me know. I will be investigating it in detail. It looks like a lot of thought has been put into this technology.
Adapt the keypair generator to a 3d printer that prints the private key QR inside and forgets it immediately as the card is printed. The public QR can be printed on the top (4th) layer along with an anti-counterfeiting device of some sort. The inner QR code can only be accessed once. Here is a basic thingiverse QR:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:46884
This would solve both the durability and privacy problems.
Putting this mechanism inside of a solar powered vending machine could open the possibility of selling BitCheques in the 3rd world - and elsewhere. It may even be patentable.
Anyone interested?
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:46884
This would solve both the durability and privacy problems.
Putting this mechanism inside of a solar powered vending machine could open the possibility of selling BitCheques in the 3rd world - and elsewhere. It may even be patentable.
Anyone interested?
I find this a better path, although, yes, you have to do proper research here too.
I think that you can easily require a smartphone with NFC, it may be easier for everybody. I don't know though if only the merchant has to have the hardware, or will the customer have to have it too (in order to avoid troubles).
Satochip based hardware wallet works on NFC and its companion code is open source. Although I can guess it's not 100% what you need, you may gather some knowledge also from taking a look there. Just an idea...
I think that you can easily require a smartphone with NFC, it may be easier for everybody. I don't know though if only the merchant has to have the hardware, or will the customer have to have it too (in order to avoid troubles).
Satochip based hardware wallet works on NFC and its companion code is open source. Although I can guess it's not 100% what you need, you may gather some knowledge also from taking a look there. Just an idea...
A plastic trifold card could be laser-etched and sealed automatically instead of printing on paper. A mini laser engraver can be purchased for under $200:
https://m.geekbuying.com/item/DAJA-DJ6-Mini-Laser-Engraver--496695.html?Currency=USD&matchtype=e&device=m&msclkid=8b00561be227195b138c349484fd34a0&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20US&utm_term=4575617652408320&utm_content=best%20seller&ref=w
The nfc chip can be added in a later edition.
Dollar bills can be more secure as the tech to print it is much higher,,, we are talking material and I thought something like radio is underused layer that has high access in undeveloped places.
Here's an interesting article about btc via ham.
https://news.bitcoin.com/no-internet-no-problem-how-to-send-bitcoin-by-amateur-radio/
Here's a satellite transceiver for $150:
https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/satellite-transceiver-breakout---swarm-m138---hookup-guide/all
Swarm charges $5/mo per location.
CAR requires ham operators to be licensed:
https://www.qsl.net/oh2mcn/tl8.htm
Hopefully Sango will waive this for btc.
Here's an interesting history of physical bitcoin to November 2020:
https://bcmint.com/blogs/news/history-of-physical-bitcoin
To my knowledge, all of these coins are preloaded.
CAR'S Sango Project seeks to make crypto "accessible to all".
https://cointelegraph.com/news/central-african-republic-to-launch-official-crypto-hub-sango
https://cointelegraph.com/news/central-african-republic-to-launch-official-crypto-hub-sango
I like the durability of credit cards, but in the target market, vendors are not equipped for any electronic equipment. The bolt card seems to require a companion electronic wallet.
I find this a better path, although, yes, you have to do proper research here too.
I think that you can easily require a smartphone with NFC, it may be easier for everybody. I don't know though if only the merchant has to have the hardware, or will the customer have to have it too (in order to avoid troubles).
Satochip based hardware wallet works on NFC and its companion code is open source. Although I can guess it's not 100% what you need, you may gather some knowledge also from taking a look there. Just an idea...
I've read about this in the past, but now the site seems to be down: https://satoshi.radio.br/
but I've found a copy: https://web.archive.org/web/20220405084343/https://satoshi.radio.br/wp/
Another one I've found and it's the first time I see it is https://txtenna.com/
Also don't forget the Opendime-like solutions as physical replacements for Bitcoin, although they're a bit expensive.
but I've found a copy: https://web.archive.org/web/20220405084343/https://satoshi.radio.br/wp/
Another one I've found and it's the first time I see it is https://txtenna.com/
Also don't forget the Opendime-like solutions as physical replacements for Bitcoin, although they're a bit expensive.
Amazing,,, even I did not know of this and figures that somebody already thought about it. Radio in Brazil, it totally makes sense.
Broadcasting transactions over the radio seems like a step backward. How would this increase privacy?
Dollar bills (which are currently used) are paper too. Let's take currency evolution one step at a time.
Dollar bills (which are currently used) are paper too. Let's take currency evolution one step at a time.
I think privacy is something to figure out later,,, we want people to use them first. And if we are talking Africa then people are pretty 'private' already being many unelectronically documented
Dollar bills can be more secure as the tech to print it is much higher,,, we are talking material and I thought something like radio is underused layer that has high access in undeveloped places.
I like the durability of credit cards, but in the target market, vendors are not equipped for any electronic equipment. The bolt card seems to require a companion electronic wallet. Any nfc gurus out there?
After reading about the Bolt Card, which is basically an NFC card with an LNURL-Withdraw link stored in it, I'm wondering if it would be possible to mass produce coins or bills with cheap NFC in them so that the value of the physical thing is almost zero, but it holds certain amount of Bitcoin, verifiable somehow.
This solution probably will require some third party that basically escrows the funds, but if that's possible, then you would be able to trade bitcoin offline basically by just passing around those NFC enabled coins/bills.
I'm not sure if it would be possible to somehow confirm that the NFC holds certain amount of Bitcoin offline, but at a minimum it should be possible to check with an Internet connected phone, which are common in the developing world. Also it could be a device, like an ATM for example, shared among a group of people that could just go there to verify their coins/bills, without the need for them to have an internet connected device themselves.
I think this could be potentially more secure than a simple QR code printed out, since there are specialized NFC chips that protect for certain known attacks.
This solution probably will require some third party that basically escrows the funds, but if that's possible, then you would be able to trade bitcoin offline basically by just passing around those NFC enabled coins/bills.
I'm not sure if it would be possible to somehow confirm that the NFC holds certain amount of Bitcoin offline, but at a minimum it should be possible to check with an Internet connected phone, which are common in the developing world. Also it could be a device, like an ATM for example, shared among a group of people that could just go there to verify their coins/bills, without the need for them to have an internet connected device themselves.
I think this could be potentially more secure than a simple QR code printed out, since there are specialized NFC chips that protect for certain known attacks.
Broadcasting transactions over the radio seems like a step backward. How would this increase privacy?
Dollar bills (which are currently used) are paper too. Let's take currency evolution one step at a time.
BitCheques are folded, sealed, and laminated (with the private key hidden inside). All this could eventually be done on a self-contained machine. But that would be phase 2. Having a storable paper wallet is an improvement over not having access to bitcoin at all. Making it into a physically exchangeable note is the bigger challenge (financially - not technologically). Hoppers, folders, and laminators are available off the shelf.
Dollar bills (which are currently used) are paper too. Let's take currency evolution one step at a time.
BitCheques are folded, sealed, and laminated (with the private key hidden inside). All this could eventually be done on a self-contained machine. But that would be phase 2. Having a storable paper wallet is an improvement over not having access to bitcoin at all. Making it into a physically exchangeable note is the bigger challenge (financially - not technologically). Hoppers, folders, and laminators are available off the shelf.
Dollar bills are indeed paper too (special paper, still, OK). Just Dollar bills are IOU papers.
From my understanding BitCheques are something different and no matter how you fold and laminate the paper, somebody may counterfeit it. Since they are not IOU, when one will try to spend the underlying bitcoin and will see they were already spent, it won't be pretty.
But, again, I might have missed something, since the current collectibles kinda risk the same problem: somebody skilled enough could counterfeit them or sell them after peeking on the private key. I don't know though how the seal can be replaced with an identical one; but in your case, at least at first glance, it looks simpler.
Broadcasting transactions over the radio seems like a step backward. How would this increase privacy?
Dollar bills (which are currently used) are paper too. Let's take currency evolution one step at a time.
BitCheques are folded, sealed, and laminated (with the private key hidden inside). All this could eventually be done on a self-contained machine. But that would be phase 2. Having a storable paper wallet is an improvement over not having access to bitcoin at all. Making it into a physically exchangeable note is the bigger challenge (financially - not technologically). Hoppers, folders, and laminators are available off the shelf.
Trustability has been attained by bitaddress. The ability of a Piperesque machine to provably forget the private key is the objective. BitCheques are currently printed offline with the bitaddress tool. The only person that needs to be trusted now regarding not archiving the private key is me (the manufacturer). Having the BitCheques made locally (and automatically) helps to solve the trust problem because it removes the human element. It also negates the need for a supporting smart contract and/or escrow.
Right now, all that is needed is a segwit enabled Piper.
Dollar bills (which are currently used) are paper too. Let's take currency evolution one step at a time.
BitCheques are folded, sealed, and laminated (with the private key hidden inside). All this could eventually be done on a self-contained machine. But that would be phase 2. Having a storable paper wallet is an improvement over not having access to bitcoin at all. Making it into a physically exchangeable note is the bigger challenge (financially - not technologically). Hoppers, folders, and laminators are available off the shelf.
Trustability has been attained by bitaddress. The ability of a Piperesque machine to provably forget the private key is the objective. BitCheques are currently printed offline with the bitaddress tool. The only person that needs to be trusted now regarding not archiving the private key is me (the manufacturer). Having the BitCheques made locally (and automatically) helps to solve the trust problem because it removes the human element. It also negates the need for a supporting smart contract and/or escrow.
Right now, all that is needed is a segwit enabled Piper.
But why do we have to think so extreme from paper to internet?
I tend to agree with this.
I am sure there are other technologies in between that everyone in Africa can access like radio. Electricity I believe is the main problem but if you could have something like a radio that runs on batteries for weeks. I know I could be sounding nonsense but this is my thought and maybe a genius can point it out.
One doesn't have to be genius, the forum has a lot of solutions gathered, just I don't know if they're properly centralized.
I've read about this in the past, but now the site seems to be down: https://satoshi.radio.br/
but I've found a copy: https://web.archive.org/web/20220405084343/https://satoshi.radio.br/wp/
Another one I've found and it's the first time I see it is https://txtenna.com/
Also don't forget the Opendime-like solutions as physical replacements for Bitcoin, although they're a bit expensive.
I mean, paper is great but I live in Asia and it is very humid and well,,, if you had important papers lying around there is someone ready to break into it.
Water and also fire are the first enemies of the paper one can think on, but human mistakes are just as bad - from misplacing it to forgetting what's it about and tear it into pieces and/or throw it away or spill something onto it.
Imagine if there is no internet what is the possibility they have good safes or safety deposit box?
I think that it makes more sense to keep something better than simple paper in safety deposits; from laminated paper to OpenDime or, if you have proper wallet then the seed can be even imprinted onto steel.
To continue the discussion regarding the safe use of paper wallets as currency
Maybe I'm missing something, but what if a malicious party create multiple copies (Xerox) of the same piece of paper?
I think that whatever you do right, somebody will get scammed, and from there to ruining your reputation is just a tiny step (no matter the scammer wasn't you).
But why do we have to think so extreme from paper to internet? I am sure there are other technologies in between that everyone in Africa can access like radio. Electricity I believe is the main problem but if you could have something like a radio that runs on batteries for weeks. I know I could be sounding nonsense but this is my thought and maybe a genius can point it out.
I mean, paper is great but I live in Asia and it is very humid and well,,, if you had important papers lying around there is someone ready to break into it.
Imagine if there is no internet what is the possibility they have good safes or safety deposit box?
I mean, paper is great but I live in Asia and it is very humid and well,,, if you had important papers lying around there is someone ready to break into it.
Imagine if there is no internet what is the possibility they have good safes or safety deposit box?
Thanks! This could be a tremendous help!
I'm trying to reach Chris Cassano (glitch003 on github) to learn more about the security of the Piper Wallet printer's forget button, and to learn more about the history of the project. The Piper wallet was a self-contained Raspberry Pi bitcoin paper wallet generator developed 7 years ago that may provide helpful information going forward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOcNWcLLG8c
https://github.com/piperwallet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOcNWcLLG8c
https://github.com/piperwallet
Ok assuming Central African Republic has a low internet usage rate, what guarantee is there that people will start using some new physical form of Bitcoin is not a trustless system like what the electronic form of Bitcoin?
Since they don't have internet, they are left with two legal tender options: a fiat currency with a history and high probability of continued debasement, or a bitcoin note which is programmatically immune from debasement. Having had experience with fiat, the bitcoin note is more attractive. While bitcoin is currently volatile, a wider use of bitcoin will gradually stabilize it. Its value is also likely to continue increasing as it becomes more widespread internationally and halvings further cap the supply of bitcoin. It's our job to make BitCheques as trustless as possible. Is Central African Republic really that badly off in terms of Internet access? I find that had to believe.
Where do people get such statistics, and who does them?
DIGITAL 2022: THE CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLICWhere do people get such statistics, and who does them?
Internet use in the Central African Republic in 2022
https://datareportal.com/reports/digital-2022-central-african-republic?rq=Central%20African%20Republic
Quote
"The Central African Republic’s internet penetration rate stood at 7.1 percent of the total population at the start of 2022...For perspective, these user figures reveal that 4.61 million people in the Central African Republic did not use the internet at the start of 2022, meaning that 92.9 percent of the population remained offline at the beginning of the year."
Is Central African Republic really that badly off in terms of Internet access? I find that had to believe.
It seems correct:Quote from: Reuters last month
Central African Republic has internet penetration rates of just 11%, equal to some 550,000 people online last year, the DataReportal website estimates. Meanwhile only around 14% of people have access to electricity and less than half have a mobile phone connection, the Economist Intelligence Unit says.
So many of the people without electricity have a mobile phone, which means they go somewhere to charge it. It's also one of the most expensive countries for mobile data. 
The Central African Republic has just declared Bitcoin to be legal tender, but 90% of the population doesn't have ready access to the Internet.
Is Central African Republic really that badly off in terms of Internet access? I find that had to believe.Where do people get such statistics, and who does them?
Ok assuming Central African Republic has a low internet usage rate, what guarantee is there that people will start using some new physical form of Bitcoin is not a trustless system like what the electronic form of Bitcoin?
Of course, complete trustlessness is an ideal toward which we strive. Most bitcoin transactions over the Internet don't meet that criteria either - especially if someone uses a custodian or widely shares his public address. Another ideal is simplicity. Having to memorize a password for transactions fails that test. Using bitcoin correctly requires a steep learning curve. A currency shouldn't.
Initially, the guaranteed amount will likely be more like 10000 satoshis. As the production process becomes more secure and anti-counterfeiting measures are improved, larger denominations will become more feasible.
I believe that you greatly underestimate the potential of smart contracts. A complex DAO shouldn't be necessary in this case anyway.
The lightning network allows transactions to take place without being verified in real time. Paper notes would improve on portability.
Initially, the guaranteed amount will likely be more like 10000 satoshis. As the production process becomes more secure and anti-counterfeiting measures are improved, larger denominations will become more feasible.
I believe that you greatly underestimate the potential of smart contracts. A complex DAO shouldn't be necessary in this case anyway.
The lightning network allows transactions to take place without being verified in real time. Paper notes would improve on portability.
Quoting from the other topic:
Actually, there are some very good methods of selecting an arbitrator. For example, each party submits 3 arbitrators, from which one is chosen by the other party. The two arbitrators select a third. The panel of three decides (2 of 3) from between solutions submitted by each party without alteration as to what funds are released to what party. This prevents a "splitting the baby" compromise.
The main problem: no matter how good the arbitrator is, it's not trustless. If someone wants to pay me with a private payment system which means I have to trust some people I don't know, I wouldn't accept it. I'm not into Bitcoin to trust people, I'm into Bitcoin to be my own bank so to speak.The Central African Republic has just declared Bitcoin to be legal tender, but 90% of the population doesn't have ready access to the Internet.
I assume that percentage will only go up the coming years.Quote
I am exploring safe ways to use Bitcoin without having to connect to the Internet for every exchange.
It's like sending an email: you can't do it without the internet. You can print the email and send a letter, but if you do, it's no longer an email.Quote
Ideally a paper wallet could be created in a manner that prevents anyone from memorizing or recording the private key before it is sealed.
That's not possible. I can print a paper wallet with my eyes closed and seal it, but you'd have to trust me on this. I can setup an automated production line that seals the paper wallets before they come out, but you'd have to trust it doesn't store the private keys. You can watch me burn the production line, but you'd have to trust I didn't use pre-generated private keys. The only way to be sure nobody else knows your private keys, is by generating them by yourself.Quote
I am also exploring a smart contract that guarantees (via escrowed funds and/or multisig) that no funds are released until the BitCheques are opened.
"Smart contracts" always remind me of Ethereum's DAO scam, in which they called the only person who understood the contract "The Attacker", after which they let go of their "code is law" and hardforked it into a centralized shitcoin. Let's not go there with Bitcoin.
The Central African Republic has just declared Bitcoin to be legal tender, but 90% of the population doesn't have ready access to the Internet. I am exploring safe ways to use Bitcoin without having to connect to the Internet for every exchange. Ideally a paper wallet could be created in a manner that prevents anyone from memorizing or recording the private key before it is sealed.
I am also exploring a smart contract that guarantees (via escrowed funds and/or multisig) that no funds are released until the BitCheques are opened.
I am also exploring a smart contract that guarantees (via escrowed funds and/or multisig) that no funds are released until the BitCheques are opened.
Anyone interested?
I'd like to continue this discussion, but you should create another topic for it. If you do, feel free to mention me (@LoyceV)Jump to: