Plagiarism | what %age should be allowed?

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: irfan_pak10 on January 03, 2021, 04:27:56 PM

Again If one is spinning the text, changing one word from seven to avoid plag, still it needs to be credited otherwise it will come under the theft category.

I can't imagine a situation in which someone is acting in good faith and is using a text spinner to create a whitepaper.

If a whitepaper is inadvertently missing a quotation or citation, the author should promptly fix it once this is pointed out. A number of missing citations is not necessarily an indication the project is a scam. I think ultimately, good judgment needs to be used when evaluating if a project is a scam based on a whitepaper and missing citations. You can ask if the missing citations substantially change the chances of success in the eyes of a reasonable person. You can ask if the missing citations are indicative that the project is a substantial copy of another project with few substantive details changed.

nutildah

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Quote from: irfan_pak10 on January 03, 2021, 04:27:56 PM

Again If one is spinning the text, changing one word from seven to avoid plag, still it needs to be credited otherwise it will come under the theft category.

I suppose crediting it is better than not but text spinning still comes across as lazy and insincere. Though if done sparsely it doesn't come across as plagiarism.

Especially with Altcoin ANNs and white papers: I've always thought that if a project can't be bothered to describe itself using its own words, how much effort are they going to put into the actual project? The same thing goes with general posts: I'm more inclined to think a user is sincere and genuine when they express original thought.

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Quote from: nutildah on January 03, 2021, 04:24:01 PM

Quote from: irfan_pak10 on January 03, 2021, 04:02:46 PM

That's why there is 10-15% plag is allowed as one can not change/edit some common and technical words/ phrases.

Let's say a post or any text is 700 words long. If the text is all original, except for 1 sentence where 7 words in a row are taken directly from another source, and that source isn't credited -- that's plagiarism. Even if its only 1% of the total words. If its a technical explanation where no words should be changed, then it needs to be quoted and sourced.

The easy way around this is to just change one of the 7 words, pretty much anywhere so long as 7 words in a row aren't the exact same. Doing this once or twice is OK. Doing it across an entire article is "text spinning," however.

Again If one is spinning the text, changing one word from seven to avoid plag, still it needs to be credited otherwise it will come under the theft category.

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Quote from: irfan_pak10 on January 03, 2021, 04:02:46 PM

That's why there is 10-15% plag is allowed as one can not change/edit some common and technical words/ phrases.

Let's say a post or any text is 700 words long. If the text is all original, except for 1 sentence where 7 words in a row are taken directly from another source, and that source isn't credited -- that's plagiarism. Even if its only 1% of the total words. If its a technical explanation where no words should be changed, then it needs to be quoted and sourced.

The easy way around this is to just change one of the 7 words, pretty much anywhere so long as 7 words in a row aren't the exact same. Doing this once or twice is OK. Doing it across an entire article is "text spinning," however.

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Quote from: LoyceV on January 02, 2021, 08:08:04 AM

Quote from: nutildah on January 01, 2021, 06:21:55 PM

I think 10% is too high. The criteria for plagiarism should be based on how often 7 or more words in a row are copied from another source (it should be never).

Is that 7 word limit based on more common phrases, such as "not your keys, not your coins" or "don't invest more than you can afford to lose"? I'd say both are common enough not to need a citation anymore. I reproduce them by heart because I've read them so many times before.
It is quite likely to write the same couple of words. Google gives 2 hits for "likely to write the same", while I only searched for it after typing it. Even if the same combination of words occurs many times in a document, if 2 people write about the same subject that is to be expected.

That's why there is 10-15% plag is allowed as one can not change/edit some common and technical words/ phrases.

Quote from: Vod on January 01, 2021, 04:57:11 PM

You do not need to reference every sentence you copy from another page, but you should at least put it in quotes, and cite your sources at the end of your post.

Copying any part of another's work without compensation is theft.

I have studied plag, If you are trying to quote someone else's work one must have to credit him and there are many ways of doing it. Depending on what you are quoting.

nutildah

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Quote from: LoyceV on January 02, 2021, 08:08:04 AM

Quote from: nutildah on January 01, 2021, 06:21:55 PM

I think 10% is too high. The criteria for plagiarism should be based on how often 7 or more words in a row are copied from another source (it should be never).

Is that 7 word limit based on more common phrases, such as "not your keys, not your coins" or "don't invest more than you can afford to lose"? I'd say both are common enough not to need a citation anymore. I reproduce them by heart because I've read them so many times before.

Those phrases are so common they don't even need quotations. I don't agree with trying to bust somebody for plagiarism for usage of overtly common expressions. Are those particular examples attributable to particular sources?

Leaving out quotations when quoting less common or uncommon phrases, even when sourced at the bottom, should be discouraged.

7 words in a row max is a general guideline for unsourced quotations; 5 words is probably too strict for the purposes of the forum.

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Quote from: nutildah on January 01, 2021, 06:21:55 PM

I think 10% is too high. The criteria for plagiarism should be based on how often 7 or more words in a row are copied from another source (it should be never).

Is that 7 word limit based on more common phrases, such as "not your keys, not your coins" or "don't invest more than you can afford to lose"? I'd say both are common enough not to need a citation anymore. I reproduce them by heart because I've read them so many times before.
It is quite likely to write the same couple of words. Google gives 2 hits for "likely to write the same", while I only searched for it after typing it. Even if the same combination of words occurs many times in a document, if 2 people write about the same subject that is to be expected.

PrimeNumber7

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Quote from: irfan_pak10 on December 23, 2020, 04:29:53 PM

I don't know if there is already a conversation about How much percentage of plagiarism should be allowed to different projects in their Whiteperp/ litepaper or whatever they call it.

In the context of whitepapers, anything that is not original research by the author(s) should be cited. This means if the author(s) used another source for a fact, they should cite it. The entire paper should be written by themselves, and anything that is copied should be quoted and cited.

By doing the above, the author(s) are transparent as to how much original research they have conducted. It is very well possible that a project could have real value with no original research if they have used many unique sources to combine several ideas together.

nutildah

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I think 10% is too high. The criteria for plagiarism should be based on how often 7 or more words in a row are copied from another source (it should be never). That's a fairly common standard. If there's no better way to express your thoughts than the way somebody else already has, the borrowed words need to be put in quotations and attributed to the author.

Vod

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You do not need to reference every sentence you copy from another page, but you should at least put it in quotes, and cite your sources at the end of your post.

Copying any part of another's work without compensation is theft.

UmerIdrees

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Quote from: irfan_pak10 on December 23, 2020, 04:29:53 PM

I don't know if there is already a conversation about How much percentage of plagiarism should be allowed to different projects in their Whiteperp/ litepaper or whatever they call it. I would like to initiate this topic here. As I have seen some papers got 10% plagiarism where people start calling them scammer, I think Less than 15% plagiarism should be allowed [which is allowed worldwide] as there are many cases where one can not change some terms, as if they do they'll completely change the meaning. But they also should copy someone else's paper and just remove the plagiarism, which should be strictly not allowed. What is your opinion about plagiarism and how much should be allowed in what cases?

This is more critical matter rather than just a copy paste whitepaper. There can be two similar project based on the same idea but the white paper will be 100% unique. If anyone wants to create a project only to make quick money, they will surely try to copy the whitepaper but a professional team will never copy even a single sentence as they will have a dedicated staff who will produce 100% unique white-paper. If a project cant produce a unique white paper, i will doubt the success of this project.

hugeblack

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The white paper is the idea in which you explain the basics of your project, if all copy and paste (without or with mention) the sources, the project will not develop because it will be a duplicate.

You can read the white paper for many projects and you will find that it is an explanation of the nature of the project's work and the quote is for the necessary things and not for all the points in it, and there is no need to quote because it explains how the project works in a simple way.

zasad@

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Quote from: Pmalek on December 25, 2020, 06:42:41 AM

Badmanthought makes a good point when he says it's hard to create original and new content nowadays. We see it in industries like music, movies, etc. It's the same crap with a little twist to it. But that doesn't justify stealing someone's work, putting a different title on it, and calling it a new and revolutionary coin/project.

When we are on the subject of plagiarism in whitepapers, project announcements, bounty threads, signature campaigns, etc., don't you ever get the feeling that so many of them sound the same? Especially the sections explaining the rules and posting requirements. Isn't that also some type of plagiarism and word spinning as well?

The rules originated from someone. A 2nd user made some changes and improved them, a 3rd and 4th copied from him, and so on. Now many of them look the same, just different numbers and maybe a few new requirements. I wonder who the original creator and first signature campaign manager was that made all of this?

Why would you complicate your life and answer these questions? If someone uses someone else's material, then he should put a link to it.
Further, it doesn't matter who was the first source of this content.
I saw white papers of projects that had many links on each page. There is nothing wrong or forbidden in this.

Pmalek

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Badmanthought makes a good point when he says it's hard to create original and new content nowadays. We see it in industries like music, movies, etc. It's the same crap with a little twist to it. But that doesn't justify stealing someone's work, putting a different title on it, and calling it a new and revolutionary coin/project.

When we are on the subject of plagiarism in whitepapers, project announcements, bounty threads, signature campaigns, etc., don't you ever get the feeling that so many of them sound the same? Especially the sections explaining the rules and posting requirements. Isn't that also some type of plagiarism and word spinning as well?

The rules originated from someone. A 2nd user made some changes and improved them, a 3rd and 4th copied from him, and so on. Now many of them look the same, just different numbers and maybe a few new requirements. I wonder who the original creator and first signature campaign manager was that made all of this?

zasad@

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Quote from: irfan_pak10 on December 23, 2020, 04:29:53 PM

I don't know if there is already a conversation about How much percentage of plagiarism should be allowed to different projects in their Whiteperp/ litepaper or whatever they call it. I would like to initiate this topic here. As I have seen some papers got 10% plagiarism where people start calling them scammer, I think Less than 15% plagiarism should be allowed [which is allowed worldwide] as there are many cases where one can not change some terms, as if they do they'll completely change the meaning. But they also should copy someone else's paper and just remove the plagiarism, which should be strictly not allowed. What is your opinion about plagiarism and how much should be allowed in what cases?

Many users do not understand what plagiarism means on this forum.

There is a definition of plagiarism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Plagiarism

But plagiarism on the forum is completely different.
If you copied several lines of someone else's text and did not put down links, then this is plagiarism. And it doesn't matter what percentage of the text was copied 0.1% or 10%.
3 lines of someone else's text without specifying the source is enough to accuse the project of plagiarism.

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Quote from: Rikafip on December 24, 2020, 03:57:28 AM

By the way, do you have some specific case in mind when you are talking about percentages, as I know that you are creating ANN threads for various projects?

Maybe irfan_park10 is talking about the case I found in this "[WARNING] Kwik Swap Plagiarized Whitepaper" what I found in this case is indeed violating and of course stealing content from others without providing the original source I have investigated according to my ability but what what I have noticed is that from their unique idea it is very clear that they copy from other content and this they change the name of paragraphs and sentences the same is this not wrong?
This means that it can be said to be a nonsense project even though there are those who side that they do not steal funds from investors but I am just guessing here that if there is a project like this it is clearly not their idea.

rat03gopoh

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I tend to skip over to reading introductory sections which incidentally contain common terms and are often plagiarized from other sources and not necessarily the original source.

But if plagiarism is found in the core explain section of the project idea then I'll assume that it is a bullshit project and most likely a scam even though it only contains 5% plagiarism. Logically, it's impossible for someone to review with the same sentence on the same idea.

bill gator

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Quote from: LoyceV on December 24, 2020, 08:22:48 AM

Quote from: irfan_pak10 on December 23, 2020, 04:29:53 PM

How much percentage of plagiarism should be allowed to different projects

When talking about a percentage, do you mean the percentage of overlapping words in the project?

In that case, I think I already reached 15% in my previous sentence, and I don't think it's plagiarism.

This was exactly the point I was trying to make earlier; albeit much more precise and tangible..
We are human beings, there are only so many words and only so many ways to say the same thing. We use and reuse words, certain patterns and when repeating an idea that we did not come up with for the good of a conversation we do our best to put it in our own words - Many times we fall short and end up repeating what we've heard.

This is why a simple, unexplained percentage would never work for something like this.
"I took my dog for a walk"

Also, the simple percentage method would never catch Mosaic Plagiarism or Patch-Writing, which is quite often the most egregious version of plagiarism.

LoyceV

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Quote from: irfan_pak10 on December 23, 2020, 04:29:53 PM

How much percentage of plagiarism should be allowed to different projects

When talking about a percentage, do you mean the percentage of overlapping words in the project?

In that case, I think I already reached 15% in my previous sentence, and I don't think it's plagiarism.

Insanerman

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I've been reading a lot that some acts of plagiarism must be consider especially if it was just a small percentage of a whole. But let us look at the opposite, think as if you are the original author whom someone stole your ideas and claims. Knowing the fact that you worked hard for it, either it was a conclusion on your research study, or just a personal professional opinion, would you accept it? Well then the answers would be a clear no.

It is easy to say that "it is just a part" when you aren't the one who had been copied and not referenced nor had been cited. Hence, plagiarism remains a prohibited thing to be done, a minimal act of stealing an intellectual property.

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Quote from: Badmanthought on December 23, 2020, 08:46:21 PM

For your work to be as clean as possible, your plagiarism ratio should not be above 10% - 12%

Well you made some valid points, but a project can't be considered plagiarism anymore after a citations and reference has been careful made/taken, and also distincting your original work from that gotten from other source.

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Quote from: irfan_pak10 on December 23, 2020, 04:29:53 PM

As I have seen some papers got 10% plagiarism where people start calling them scammer, I think Less than 15% plagiarism should be allowed [which is allowed worldwide] as there are many cases where one can not change some terms, as if they do they'll completely change the meaning.

Problem with an average whitepaper we see here is not that few terms here and there are copied, but whole sentences, paragraphs and sometimes even pages are copied word for word from someone else, and for that there is no excuse. But even if they just copied few sentences, how hard is to include reference? For example, it can be done in an unobtrusive way, like in Bitcoin whitepaper.

I simply do not trust those that are not capable of writing their own whitepaper without proper referencing. In best case scenario they are just ignorant and negligent, while in reality they are deceitful and dishonest. Neither is good and will most likely cause people loose money.

By the way, do you have some specific case in mind when you are talking about percentages, as I know that you are creating ANN threads for various projects?

Quote from: Badmanthought on December 23, 2020, 08:46:21 PM

For your work to be as clean as possible, your plagiarism ratio should not be above 10% - 12%

Well, for your work to be as clean as possible, plagiarism rate should be at 0%, and that means that you cited every source used, and you made clear distinction between your own words and what you took from the others. So just verbatim copying something and sharing links at the end isn't proper way either.

Similarity index is another story, and there we can talk about percentages and what is good and what is not.

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If you remember 2018, then all projects that posted the INS on this forum were checked for fraud. This has become the norm today. This forum is famous for the fact that a project containing white paper plagiarism is difficult to pass off as an honest project. Therefore, I have noticed many times that those who create an explicit scam project do not even try to be announced here.

But to say that if a technical document contains a small percentage of plagiarism, it is called a scammer and negative tags are left for it, is also not entirely true. Lately, I've only come across warnings about this.
The development of projects should be carried out by experienced people who should take into account all the points, including those that include the competent development of technical documentation, as well as a road map describing all stages of formation.

Often, plagiarism occurs where organizers are in a hurry, do not care about quality, as a rule, make a lot of mistakes.
What impression can a project make of itself, which was created “On its knees”, in two or three months, the team has no previous experience, and has a copied document?

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There are no percentage when it comes to plagiarism. If you copy on someone's work without his or her consent and you make it on your own regardless on how much information that came from other ideas you are using it still an act of plagiarizing. It can be allowed if you credited the one who had that idea and avoid owning it as yours and the author consented the use of the ideas.

Little Mouse

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Plagiarism in whitepaper? What forum has to do with it? I mean this shouldn’t be posted in meta, maybe altcoin service discussion.

Now, we should know what exactly a whitepaper is.

Quote

A white paper is an authoritative report or guide that informs readers concisely about a complex issue and presents the issuing body's philosophy on the matter. It is meant to help readers understand an issue, solve a problem, or make a decision.

source- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_paper

You are going to talk about a particular issue, details of your project. How can that be filled with exactly same texts from other whitepaper. Well, there are some texts which can't be changed. They can be presented with enough references of course.

bill gator

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Quote from: Badmanthought on December 23, 2020, 08:46:21 PM

no idea is new

I can't say I'm on board with how you've phrase this, but you do raise a point that is interesting to me. It's quite often that people in my everyday life have said a full sentence to me that I remember hearing verbatim from a movie, newscast, etc. I don't think these people do it with malicious intent, but there is an impressive lack of unique thoughts.

Quote from: Badmanthought on December 23, 2020, 08:46:21 PM

your plagiarism ratio should not be above 10% - 12%

Surely it isn't as simple as a percentage or a ratio.
The more complex a sentence, idea or paragraph is, the more significant (and representative of plagiarism) each percentage becomes in that ratio.

OcTradism

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Quote from: irfan_pak10 on December 23, 2020, 04:29:53 PM

I don't know if there is already a conversation about How much percentage of plagiarism should be allowed to different projects in their Whiteperp/ litepaper or whatever they call it. I would like to initiate this topic here. As I have seen some papers got 10% plagiarism where people start calling them scammer, I think Less than 15% plagiarism should be allowed [which is allowed worldwide] as there are many cases where one can not change some terms, as if they do they'll completely change the meaning. But they also should copy someone else's paper and just remove the plagiarism, which should be strictly not allowed. What is your opinion about plagiarism and how much should be allowed in what cases?

Copyrights need to be learnt before people want to create their projects and write their Whitepaper. They can not blame on anything, any reason that why they copy and paste but skip the source. Even they are living in nations where copyrights are not protected by laws and governments. I know the copyrights is applicable globally but there are nations where governments don't care to spend their human resources to protect the rights.

It is bad in morality to copy and paste other works and use it for your financial incentives but ignore the original authors.

Could you tell me where did you get the 15% of plagiarism is accepted, please.

Quote

Q: What is the acceptable percentage of plagiarism report?

Answer:
There is a lack of consensus or clear-cut-rules on what percentage of plagiarism is acceptable in a manuscript. Going by the convention, usually a text similarity below 15% is acceptable by the journals and a similarity of >25% is considered as high percentage of plagiarism.

But even in case of 15% similarity, if the matching text is one continuous block of borrowed material, it will be considered as plagiarized text of significant concern. On the other hand, text similarity due to the usage of common terminologies and method related details in ‘Methodology’ part of a manuscript should not raise a serious ethical concern.

https://www.editage.com/insights/what-is-the-acceptable-percentage-of-plagiarism-report

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@ OP to be honest, the world it self is more of plagiarism, the words we speak, the air we breath, the food we eat etc...
There's absolutely nothing new in the world, we are just rephrasing and rebranding each of these things.

There's no way you will do any work today or write an article that you will not find something similar to what someone else has done years back, even without you not been aware of it even before you started your work.
This is why it is requested that before and after your work, do some findings to know those that have previously did something similar to your work, and do a citation on it.

No matter how smart you are, there most always be an atom of plagiarism in your work, this is because no idea is new, we're only rebranding the already existing ones.

For your work to be as clean as possible, your plagiarism ratio should not be above 10% - 12%

The Sceptical Chymist

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I think I do recall this issue coming up before, but it's been a while.

I'd say one complete sentence that isn't just comprised of common phrases/sentiments, e.g., "Hey man, I appreciate the work you did on X" should be enough to be plagiarism if a source isn't cited. And probably if the sentence came from some other site or wherever and the likelihood of someone just mistakenly writing it from memory. It's a bit tricky, isn't it?

Fortunately, most plagiarism that we see on bitcointalk is blatant and is usually a pattern on the part of the plagiarist because they're trying to write something in a language they don't really know. Aside from text spinning, usually what we get here are straight-up copy/paste jobs that can be discovered with Google.

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Quote from: logfiles on December 23, 2020, 04:42:51 PM

If they feel they can't change some terms or definitions then what is hard about citing the source?

I think the percentage doesn't matter, plagiarism remains plagiarism. The fact that they decide to copy and paste minus giving credit to the source means that they are dishonest.
Going by the percentage, If a project has a 50-Page white paper and 15% it is plagiarized (7.5 Pages). Do you think it is fair to overlook such?

I would go with citations. If they copy/page -first still they'll have to remove the plagiarism and still needs to cite from where they took that part and credit them otherwise this should comes under the fraud category.

Quote

If a project has a 50-Page white paper and 15% it is plagiarized (7.5 Pages). Do you think it is fair to overlook such?

It's a percentage that is worldwide accepted only if they use citations.

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Plagiarism is the sense of inadequacy and evidence of scam, a project supposed to be completely free of spam or plagiarism. If I read a project and see any plagiarism, I will simply just believe it is not safe and should not be followed. Most of the scam projects are plagiarized because many scammers do not want to have their time for writing such but plagiarising from other sources, if a project follow the way, then it is likely a scam.

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If they feel they can't change some terms or definitions then what is hard about citing the source?

I think the percentage doesn't matter, plagiarism remains plagiarism. The fact that they decide to copy and paste minus giving credit to the source means that they are dishonest.
Going by the percentage, If a project has a 50-Page white paper and 15% it is plagiarized (7.5 Pages). Do you think it is fair to overlook such?

irfan_pak10

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I don't know if there is already a conversation about How much percentage of plagiarism should be allowed to different projects in their Whiteperp/ litepaper or whatever they call it. I would like to initiate this topic here. As I have seen some papers got 10% plagiarism where people start calling them scammer, I think Less than 15% plagiarism should be allowed [which is allowed worldwide] as there are many cases where one can not change some terms, as if they do they'll completely change the meaning. But they also should copy someone else's paper and just remove the plagiarism, which should be strictly not allowed. What is your opinion about plagiarism and how much should be allowed in what cases?

Topic: Plagiarism | what %age should be allowed? (Read 599 times)