Topic: PLEASE Backup your wallet! A Paper Backup is *Forever*! (Read 54106 times)

Yes, only if you're referring to the "root key" in your paper backup.
Armory is a "Hierarchical Deterministic" wallet which means that every private keys and addresses that it will generate can be recreated by the root key.

Otherwise, a single exported private key can only restore an address; one private key can only restore its address pair, not the whole wallet.

IDK if there's a way to get a 'master private key' from the 'root key' to be able to create a "versatile backup" but the instructions in the reply above you should be sufficient in case you need to export to another client.

If I understand it correctly, the private address within my Armory wallet, on an offline computer (that has never ever seen a connection to the internet, with a destroyed ethernet port, so it could never see the internet), is going to stay as a static private key? All the addresses generated on my watch-only wallet will always point to the same private key, as well as all the change-back addresses will put the bitcoin back to the address that my private key will be able to unlock?

I'm just trying to understand how the private key that has never been connected to the blockchain will be able to unlock every single public address (out of gazillion that I generate with my watch-only wallet) that is recorded on the blockchain? I'm throwing in this question on purpose, trying to find out the missing link that would link all the bits in my brain together.

And, also, if a paper backup can unlock the private key in Armory, what if I access the private key, laser-engrave it on a metal plate (alloy that is pretty much indestructible - something similar to adamantium, but actually exists), and lock it up in the safest place I could come up with? In that case the backed-up (on a metal plate) private key would be much safer and much more versatile, since I would no longer be limited to the Armory software wallet?

Just trying to figure out how to keep my bitcoin in a case when one third of the planet earth gets destroyed.

etotheipi isn't responsible for Armory any more... it's all down to "goatpig"


You don't need Bitcoin Core synced and/or the blockchain data downloaded... in fact, you don't even need Bitcoin Core installed to recover your coins

You can simply do the following:

1. Download, install and run the latest Bitcoin Armory from here: https://btcarmory.com/


2. In Bitcoin Armory, "recover your wallet":



Then select the appropriate recovery type (most likely the first one):



Then select which format your Armory backup is in:



3. After you have recovered your wallet from the paper wallet, you can follow my guide here to export your private keys: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.43255691


4. Once you have your private keys exported, you can use a wallet like Electrum to import the keys and send to your Hardware Wallet

Follow what has been posted here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9113171 (the offline mode part). You should be able to do it without downolading any blockchain data. However most HW does not support importing a private key. If your HW does not support WIF import, you could export the private key to another wallet like Electrum first, and then sweep the balance to your new address.

Hi etotheipi

I am a armory user
I have backup paper wallet
Now I want to recover this wallet

When I download armory wallet,it need to download all blockchain data.
It is so huge data,I can't download all these data.

How can I recover wallet without download blockchain data.
I want to move btc from armory wallet to a new hard wallet.
Can you tell me a simple way.
Thank you very mush

I like how this topic - of security and careful attitude to one's backup file+key becomes more & more popular. So crypto community cares about each other, we could say? 
If I've understood the topic starter, the only acceptable way of storing the info is on paper, if one wants his relatives to find the crypto treasures in case of an accident with the hodler. It seems reasonable, just as it seems fine to use other options (like those described here https://steemit.com/wallet/@guardawallets/what-s-up-with-your-backup-5-universal-safety-tips, for ex) for little sums or for everyday needs. I mean, in future, if/when crypto will be more widely accepted, there definitely will be solutions to use your assets quickly & easily, without searching for a paper.

Each attempt requires a flat amount of RAM. This drastically reduces how many attempts you can perform in parallel. That's kind of the point of a decent KDF.




As long as your source of entropy isn't shit (please don't just put words together)

Cheers, I looked that up and understand it much better now, but I don't really understand it.

Is my assumption correct that the "Target compute time 250ms" and "Memory usage 32MB" in the advanced settings during passphrase generation in Armory 0.96.3 is somehow related to this?

If a base58 - 11 digit password is enough to secure the paper backup, does that mean that an 11-digit password would also be sufficient as the passphrase for a wallet?

It's base58.


Lol no. You think phones in the future will carry terabytes of RAM? The KDF is basically Scrypt, forget it.

How secure is a paper wallet with secureprint against a brute force attack?

Like in this scenario: Someone takes a photo of the paper backup, but the secureprint code is not on it.
S/he then uses a powerful computer with 'customised' Armory software to try to guess secureprint passwords.
The computer could be incredibly powerful, maybe something like an entry level smartphone made 10 or 20 years from now.

 My maths may be off, correct me please if below estimates are incorrect:

The Secureprint password is 11 letters long, and seems to be made up of numbers and letters only. Lets assume 26 upper case and 26 lower case letters, and 10 numbers, therefore 62 possibilities for each of the 11 letters. So that makes a maximum of  62 ⋅ 62 ⋅ 62 ⋅ 62 ⋅ 62 ⋅ 62 ⋅ 62 ⋅ 62 ⋅ 62 ⋅ 62 ⋅ 62
≈ 5.2036561* 10^19 combinations.

How long would it take to try them all?

If you live near a place with a flea market or swap shop or whatever, just find an old PC and install Ubuntu on it. That's basically your only choice.

well damn. i just added a post about this same topic. i did use the paper backup and i have it but i dont have a computer anymore. just a tablet and a smartphone, android.
are there any suggestions for me to be able to access my account and transfer the funds to another platform that i can access? without needing to reload armory? since i cant download it on my tablet or phone..

IMHO, IDK a perfect way, short of a bank box.  Imagine that.  Else, split the key, encrypt the pieces, and put them on multiple clouds with multiple ID/PW's ...

One reason Google, Microsoft, IBM all have data centers here in Iowa. 25% of our power grid and growing is Wind.  And Dirt, you dig a hole, tornado's do not care.  Earthquakes bad, hurricanes bad.

The NewMadrid fault is 500 miles away.  I've felt it 2 times in my 50 years.  Jiggles.  It was the 1810's when it made the Mississippi run North for 2-3 days. Yea really!

Yes, it should work!

I put a super-genius encryption password on my wallet back in 2013, and after 200+ attempts to figure out my own awesome password, NO LUCK.  I assembled 3 of my fragments from my copy plus family, and viola!  Paper backups saved my stupid ass.


These Paper backups were from late 2013, version 1.35c, 3 lines.  Created with Armory 0.90beta, I think.


PS: Do NOT store your separate paper copies with enough persons who can assemble enough fragments behind your back.. Evaluate your trusts.

Going on a vacation trip, I decided to take my laptop with me, including my Armory wallet. As for the paper backup, I opted for leaving it at home. Had I taken it with me, I would not have kept it in the same bag as the computer, but anyway, I felt safer about it leaving the paper backup at home.

A week later, in another country, my laptop was stolen. As I use a ridiculously long password for my wallet, I wasn’t worried that someone gaining access to the computer would also be able to access the coins. However, among the things stolen were the keys to my home. So hypothetically (I was in another country quite far away from home), someone could use the keys to get into my home, and lay hands on my paper backup, and then my coins.

Long story short, I decided to have a friend secure my home a bit more, rendering the home keys useless. When I got home, I restored my wallet, and had access to my coins back. Phew. I then moved them to a new wallet for good measure.

So this experience goes to show - do use a paper backup!! My coins would have been lost had I not used this Armory feature. Also, I realised that this is all a bit more complicated than I had foreseen:

1. Where do I keep my paper backup?
If on me, I risk losing it as well, and so the coins. If elsewhere, I will not be able to start the restoring process quickly, plus in the event of keys being stolen too, and my address being known to the thief, I risk losing the paper backup and thus the coins as well anyway. So no easy answer to this question.

If you’re up for it, you could make a digital copy of it (so you’d have both the paper backup, and the digital copy of the paper backup), encrypt that copy well, and store it somewhere online. The pros and cons are obvious. This would at least solve the issue of speediness.

The physical security issue is a bit more iffy. Choosing between locking a paper backup up and having it on me, I would still opt for the former most of the time. Another possibility is to do away with the physical version altogether, and only use encrypted digital backups left in a few good places that you can access from anywhere. Requires some skill, and good passwords, and trust in the encryption. N b - the usual digital backup of an Armory wallet is encrypted if the wallet was encrypted. If you want the full possibilities of the paper backup in digital form, of course you need to save the paper backup digitally instead. The difference vs a normal digital backup is that the paper backup will work also if you have forgotten the wallet password.

2. How well is my computer protected?
The strongest logon passwords can be bypassed if someone gains physical access to your computer. You should have a look on full disk encryption (or keep the wallet in an encrypted folder), to be used with a good password of course.

So, again, the bottom line - use a paper backup, be it an actual paper, or a digital version of it. The other issues - take some time and think about them thoroughly, it’s better to do it in advance than being forced to do it under stressful circumstances after having your laptop stolen or the like.

I need a little help please:

I have an Armory paper backup from 2 years ago (late 2014ish).  I don't know the client version.  All the hardware burnt up in a fire.  All I have is the wallet ID and the seed.  

IF I get the latest versions, will I be able to restore such an old paper backup? IF not, then where can I get the legacy version I need? How do I go about accessing my coins again from this source?  

I lost my Bitcoins

Hey,

thx for your recommendation. I also use Armory and am pretty new to bitcoin and related stuff. I generated a paper backup (pdf file) and have a lot of informations for each address. What is publicx, publicy, base58, hash160? What is the "real" private key?

Another thing is I generated 40 addresses and they are shown in the wallet but the counter "used addresses" only show 39. Is it a bug due to the chain-count starts with a "0"?

It is your choice. However, you should at least update Bitcoin core and Armory when they release critical updates.

newb question.  Is it necessary to update core and armory for every new instance if you have cold storage watch only wallets that you don't use often...beyond adding funds?

Install Armory (and Bitcoin Core) on a new computer. Click "Import or Restore Wallet", "Single-sheet backup", "Version 1.35 (4 lines)".

I have an Armory Wallet Paper Backup version 1.35
I do not have access to the computer used to create it, now how to use the BTC?

If you are already using M of N backups, why don't you simply use an encrypted digital backup(s) in place of an encrypted paper backup? You have the M of N to protect you from forgetting your own password and data loss. If your wallet is valuable enough, you could buy a robust storage media like an M-Disc. It should serve most purposes that an encrypted paper backup would serve.

Armory probably will never have encrypted paper backups (beyond the secure print option). Etotheipi has been pretty firm on his stance there.

Hi,

as a new Armory user, I'm concerned with the paper backups - specifically the fact that they are unencrypted.

While I positively _love_ the m-of-n backups, especially with Secure Print, allowing me to seed m-of-n backups among trusted friends, I need an encrypted paper backup as well, and there isn't any. My only option here is to use the Secure Print option and memorize the code sequence, which I can't trust myself to remember when I need it.

Without an encrypted paper backup, the problem of securing the online computer against leak and loss merely moves the problem to securing a piece of paper against leak and loss. Since I typically need to have them in different locations for disaster-recovery reasons, that means that my paper backup is by far the weakest link in the chain, as it's not where I can physically protect it and anybody who spots it with a camera has access to all my funds - far from the case with my online computers, not to mention my offline ones.

It's important here that the actions you take to protect against data leak typically increase your risk for data loss, and vice versa. But both a leak and a loss result in loss of funds. With encrypted paper backups, there would be additional defense in depth, allowing for stronger strategies.

Is there a possibility of having an encrypted paper backup in the future? I'm not really comfortable with a piece of paper that gives anybody access to my vault without further conditions.

Cheers,
Rick

(who probably posted in the completely wrong thread, still being rather new to Bitcointalk. Feel free to move this post, but please inform me if you do, so I can follow replies)

Lmao

That's the informal fallacy of accident

There is no limit.  The paper backup produces an essentially infinite chain of addresses.  The solar system will collapse on itself before you could generate enough addresses to risk generating the same private keys as anyone else.  

Go ahead and use a quintillion addresses (if you have time to generate that many).  You are at no risk of collisions.  And all will be protected with the paper backup.

"It doesn't matter how many addresses you use -- they're all derived from the information on that paper backup!"

I've a question about paper backup, as there is nearly a new address created for each transaction we can reach a pretty good amount of address inside one wallet (on the example screenshot we see 50 address). Is there a limit on how many address one (paper) backup can restore ? There should be a limit otherwise every wallet will had to "reserve" all possible address in order to be sure that no one use the same address that you could potentialy "create or release (?)" from on wallet in the future.... Not sure to be clear.

Great overview, thanks.

One thing that's been bugging me is how to import public addresses from our old satoshi clients that exported in CSV... I understand it would take importing that wallet itself to get at the receiving public addresses; but the sender's public addresses? Any way to get those in Armory's address book?

Looking forward to the wizard. It will be very welcome by more than just noobs.

Reserved!  (Because all the cool kids are doing it...)

I have recently had a large volume of email from users contact me with lost wallets and/or forgotten encryption passphrases.  It makes me realize Armory needs to be more aggressive about getting users to make a paper backup.  Or any backup!  

If you have no backup at all, and your hard drive crashes, you will lose your coins forever.
If you have no backup or only a digital backup, and you forgot your encryption passphrase, you will lose your coins forever.
If you have no backup or only a digital backup, and you get hit by a bus, your family will not be able to recover your coins -- they will be lost forever.

On the other hand, unlike the main client (Bitcoin-Qt), you only need one backup ever.  It doesn't matter how many addresses you use -- they're all derived from the information on that paper backup!

This isn't like a bank website where you can click a button to recover your password if you forget it.  Your password is the encryption key for your wallet, thus your wallet is permanently encrypted (i.e. useless) if you forget your passphrase.  This is what makes it secure against malware/viruses that copy your wallet files, but also keeps you out if you forget it!

Luckily, Armory has the ultimate solution for this: Paper Backups!   Use it!

Why paper?  Because a sheet of paper in a safe will last decades!  If the text is readable, the backup is good.  Compare to a USB key or CD, which is not guaranteed to work after a couple years... it might work ... it will probably work... but why risk it when you know paper will absolutely work?

• (1) Having a paper backup guarantees you will be able to recover your entire wallet, any time in the future, for any reason (except for imported keys; if you don't know what that means, you don't have them).
• (2) All paper backups are unencrypted.  The biggest threats for most users are digital/virtual, not physical threats.  It's also because an encrypted backup is useless if you forget your passphrase!  You may not need your backup for a couple years -- most users forget passwords within a couple months.
• (3) If you do not have a working printer, please copy it by hand with pen and paper!
• (3a) The QR code on the backup is only a copy of the four lines of text.  It is not needed for the backup to be useful, it's simply there for convenience.
• (4) Please protect your paper backup.  Because it's unencrypted, anyone accessing it can restore your wallet and send themself your coins.  If you are concerned about physical security, put it in a sealed envelope in a safe-deposit box at the bank.
• (5) A digital backup is encrypted if your wallet is encrypted.  This will protect you if your harddrive dies, or your laptop is stolen (import the wallet, type your passphrase, send all your coins to a new wallet).  But this doesn't help you if you need the paper backup because you forgot your passphrase!
• (6) If you have imported private keys, please use the "Backup Individual Keys" dialog, and copy the data to a text editor to print it.
• (7) Use the "Import Wallet" feature to restore any kind of backup.  Either in the "Wallets" menu, or in the upper-right corner of the main window
• (8) By keeping an [unencrypted] paper backup in a safe-deposit box, your family will be able to recover all your coins if something terrible happens to you.

A paper backup will not protect imported keys.  Please use the "Backup Individual Keys" dialog.  If you don't know what this means, you haven't done it.  This is also why it is recommended you sweep keys instead of importing -- keys are rarely reused unless you explicitly decide to do so, and sweeping will not require you to print/secure more backup material.

To reiterate:  if you only have an encrypted wallet on your computer, and only have encrypted backups, you essentially have a brain-wallet.  If something terrible happens to you, your Bitcoins go to the grave with you.  If you are simply forgetful, you have no more coins.   If you want to use a digital backup exclusively, it's highly recommended you write down the password and keep it with the backup!

UPDATE (12 Mar, 2013):  When the new wallets are released in a couple months, I will be revamping the backup system in Armory -- it will become more of a "Backup Center", or a "Backup Wizard" to help users figure out exactly how they should secure their funds.  This will include new options for backing up, including fragmented backups (with a GUI).  This information is provided here to fill the gap until the new wallets and backup center are complete.