Topic: [Pokereum] - An Ethereum-Telehash based provably fair decentralized Poker (Read 9756 times)

Udate has been posted here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1675894.new#new . I am locking this thread since this are a little more evolved now

I would also like to know.

Any news on Pokereum?

Great. Hopefully that means that updates are coming soon, rather than sometimes in the future. 
Well anyways I think this is very interesting project. I'm very eager to test the gaming client out. 

updates forthcoming

good questions, I'd say 'yes' & 'yes', but that's just a guess. Would be good if mutilple currencies were available to deposit & play with 'pokereum' native token

The minute I seen the name I thought they're making a Pokemon based coin based on Ethereum, a smart contract including catching Pkereums like catching pokemons on pokemon go.

So people can only play one table at a time with random seating to ensure there's no collusion? Will there be a new currency created to play the games or will it use ETH?

It shouldn't be too long now...testing / Negotiating third party audits etc ...The terms will be self explanatory maybe even too good to be true there is a chance that there wouldn't be enough to go around though.

The DAO was too rushed and neglected doing the hard yards on the basics like code review and governance.

Some good observations from Charles Hoskinson might be useful for Pokereum
 https://hoskinsoncharles.blogspot.com/2016/06/some-history-some-musings-and-my-take.html

It sounds like you guys are well prepared, when can we expect the crowdfund? What will be the terms?

So yeah we preemptively determined the best way for a DAO create and run Dapps effectively. All those issues they had are things we talked about two years ago.

I am not sure public discussion would have had any weight with the "the DOA" . It was more beneficial to keep our heads down and show the world what we had when we make the announcement than to engage in endless debates!

Nothing has changed!...everything they did wrong from; ineffective implementation of quorum voting rules, to implementing weird "dao-split" mechanisms to address 51% attack, where things that we came across, discuss, solved and worked on conceptually  since early 2014 before even Ethereum was live.

The last thing we did right was not to rush to be first by waiting to make sure we properly test and that our strategy is right where we can deploy in stages!

We even did a live simulation on the community without them realizing to test out incentives. Expect something soon

will the likely collapse of The DAO change plans for Pokereum?

some lessons on governance maybe

good to hear. i like the idea of this project very much. with the advent of smart contracts it was only natural to extend it to poker and it is really much needed to improve online poker by a great deal. looking forward for this!

Some announcement soon I think, like this month

how can i participate in this project? i am a poker enthusiast for many years now. i dont know how to code and i just basically participate in coins projects here helping in translation, social media and signature campaigns and the like. but with poker i consider myself very knowledgable if that means anything lol

+1

Decentralised Poker is one of THE killer apps for crypto

Interesting project. i have long given up on finding a poker site that does not rig games. i hope this one puts an end to all cheating in poker.

Good idea.

I wonder if this timer will lead to anywhere: http://superdao.io/

 

I asked this 9 days ago and got a couple answers:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4k5ui8/is_the_pokereum_still_a_thing_i_stumbled_upon/

White paper is interesting. IS someone already working on it?

@innovator256, you should consider contacting Ronny Boesing (CEO) of CCEDK / Crypto Coins Exchange Denmark ApS, if you're going to have a Pokereum token sale. Looks like he'd be interested!

Thanks. so we are finally very close. I just want to get an idea of some participators willing to seed the community around pokereum and other adjacent ideas, serving as moderators, multi-sig holders, hr and so...if you are interested pleas make yourself known and the slack url will be made known to you.

Awesome, I have been thinking about such a concept since I got into crypto.

Good luck!

Cool! Thanks for finding that ... so things are about to get serious for Pokereum ... I'm really excited!

decentralised Poker is gonna be HUGE, I have no doubts about that, it's just a no-brainer

It'll bring in a ton of new crypto users!!!

Looks great. I actually was wondering when would we see an ethereum poker based site. Already inserted my email to subscribe to receive information.

looking forward to play

As a passionated poker player I like that more and more decentralized poker services are developed for various coin frameworks.
Watch this thread, followed you on twitter and wish you good luck.

A google search found this ...

http://superdao.io/

Any news on Pokereum launch date?

let's make it happen

What's going on with this project? Is development still active?

Pokereum will be decentralised, so that is something radically different to all other crypto accepting casino sites. Pokereum will also run as a DAO, decentralised autonomous organisation, so Pokereum should be almost impossible to shutdown, so should be able to operate anywhere.

Majority of good cryptocurrency accepting casino sites already have poker included. It is already tough competition on this field. But I did not see many altcoin accepting sites and that may be a key for Pokereum to shine. I just hope this project will be finished and not abandoned in the middle of the road.

Very nice interview with Ola & Patrick from Pokereum on "P2P Connects Us" (from the 'Letstalkbitcoin' stable of podcasts).

Interview starts approx 15.10

https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/p2p-connects-us-episode-fourteen-pokereum

Very exciting to hear that Pokereum poker play will be open to a number of alt coins via a plugin system. Online Poker is obviously a killer app to attract more people into crypto currency use.

Great work guys!!

We do have a high-level roadmap (internal) but it's mostly to align the different parts of our system integrations. We definitely won't be ready for March/April.

Our DAO is going to be powered by NXT. Originally we wanted to use NXT but the smart-contract features were pushed back - which is why we made the move to Ethereum. We've got no plans (afaik) to move the DAO

You include website links to info on nxtforum.org.
Is this app a port/fork of nxt-related code?
What is the relationship here?

Do you guys have any roadmap? I'm guessing that you guys are assuming that you'll finish before Ethereum launches?

We posted those names as participants in our closed/private review session. Not advisory of any kind. Certainly didn't mean to misrepresent or mislead anyone. Thats why we listed all participators under   "private review session"




Noted, I only listed you has one of the private review participators, like many others. If this is a problem I will remove it

interesting project, wish you all luck with it

I wonder how many other people in that list were included without their notification

So just to clarify, I looked at Pokereum's whitepaper a bit and provided a few comments; I'm not any kind of official advisor. But will be interesting to see this progress.

remember guys we are seeking collaborations,  board members, community manangers, more devs etc...there are even marketing bounties for menial work see here : https://nxtforum.org/stark-industries-(nxtdice)/marketing-5288/

Looks crazy the project! Lets see!

Following this thread for sure, electrum has a lot to offer im glad this team is taking the advantage of it.

Best of luck, sign up on the website!

Thanks for sharing, I'll have to check it out.

Ok, these are pretty important distinctions.  Perhaps add that to the paper, saying it would be initially Tournament or Sit and Go style games.  Then yes, you argument about player randomization is valid.

Happy to help proof and contribute to the idea.

That's a very important distinction. When I said "based on tables" I meant to imply seats at those tables (obviously, full tables are immaterial to these stats). Sorry for being imprecise. Still, the rest of the point still stands: the more games are being played, the more table seats open up, ergo the more unlikely that two colluders will land at the same table.


Cash tables are on the roadmap, but because of the collusion aspect, we're going to be putting some very cool mechanics in place to rate-limit joins/quits by activity (i.e. the more you stick around in games, the more easier it will be to leave). So cheaters that keep table-hopping will quickly find themselves throttled in this activity.

corrected  this is why we need community participation. You all own this project!

Has anyone seen the bounties yet? There are free tokens available here: https://nxtforum.org/stark-industries-(nxtdice)/marketing-5288/

Ill sign up to the nxt forum tonight, and comment over there.

How can I add comments to the document?  You have a spelling mistake on page 12.

How will the system handle slow to act players?

"The punishment may rage from losing a round to getting kicked out from the table and losing the table stake depending on the frequency of offences."

Not entirely true.  The number of games in play does not matter; the number of open seats does.  Sites will table balance to ensure full tables are running.  By randomly allocating, as opposed to table balancing, it may degrade the player experience.

Cheats could wait for opportune times, such as when all tables are full, or a table has < empty seats.

So its tournament only, not cash games?

Just read the white paper.  I saw that solution.  You might have issues with table balancing.


No offence taken.  I've played over 100,000 hands online (hit a RFlush online on Friday too!)  Been playing since 2002 and cashed in tournaments in the UK, Poland, Canada and Australia.  Just trying to make sure it cant be gamed.

One of my old work colleges used to work for Stars, doing heuristics on cheats.  So we often have discussions on this topic.

A few points of clarification:

• You don't have to be part of the DOA to enjoy the game. It will be made available to everyone
• Collusion requires players being able to play at the same table. Pokereum removes the ability for people to pick and choose their tables (randomized assignment as per the white paper description), thereby making it a statistical improbability that two or more colluders will land at the same tables.

I certainly don't want to appear hostile or defensive, but I get the sense that the criticism about collusion are born out of an incomplete understanding of what we are talking about (for this aspect of security). I'll try to sum it up colloquially here:
To collude in traditional online poker systems, two or more people are typically in contact with each other outside the game system and share knowledge of their hands without others at the table knowing. This happens today when online poker games let people pick their tables, and they can direct their colluders to the same table. Pokereum does not let you pick a table - you are assigned (according to our matchmaking algorithms). So two people are randomly assigned to tables. There are stats and maths to discusss how likely/unlikely these two people land in the same game, but intuitively, we know that as the number of games increase, the chances of them getting in the same game drop (rapidly).

So, the cheaters face two options (once they've chosen to take their chances at collusion):

• play the table assigned, thereby be unable to cheat
• quit the table (and lose the buy-in) and try again

Any team looking to try option number two will quickly find that the costs of quitting tables will always be higher than whatever they can get IF they ever land at the same table (esp. since BOTH cheaters have to walk away from their buy-ins).

I thought this concept was pretty clearly explained in the paper - but maybe the confusion around the topic is a good indicator that we should take another stab at that section.

Hope this clarifies things for you!

EDIT
PS: There will be a "play with friends" feature, but it's not fully spec'd out yet, so I don't have a lot to share with you on that part just yet.

I see "Ron Gross" discusses this point in the white paper.

Isn't this an oxymoron?  By implementing it as a DOA and anonymous players, collusion becomes very easy.

Reading the white paper now.  I'd been thinking about a similar project, but wouldn't have the resources to do it.  Looks good!

Thanks

will follow this thread. good luck

Hey guys, I'm part of the core dev team, and I'm lurking here on this thread. So if you have any questions about the project, I'd be happy to answer as best I can.

Uniting all coin communities while increasing utility through mass adoption.



 







Intro :: What is Pokereum
Pokereum is an experimental contemporary community driven idea of using flat virtual decentralized autonomous organizations (DAO) to manage and develop a decentralized application (DAPP) that solves the mental poker problem using Ethereum smart contracts, Telehash mesh networking and a consensus network. The Poker app or DAPP basically lets you play a game of poker while ensuring random number generation and card shuffling are fair and transparent while reducing cost for poker players, reducing the possibilities of collusion and enabling cheap boundless payments and withdrawals using cryptocurrencies and smart contracts. Mechanisms to enable easy on-boarding of non crypto-currency users and stable value crypto currencies are detailed in the white paper.


Pokereum, the Ethereum - Telehash based provably fair decentralized poker DAO & DAPP project is intended to unite all coin communities and spur mass adoption of crypto currencies. The Dapp aspect is made possible through the use of smart contracts, a unique proof of stake/participation based jury consensus system and a mini blockchain weakly subjected to the Ethereum chain.

The Pokereum poker app is a DAPP(decentralized app) managed by the evolving Pokereum DAO (decentralized autonomous organization): a collective community people from all coin communities working together to achieve a common goal, voting on key issues and direction and development of the Pokereum DAPP, assisted by DAO delegates and autonomous agents.

Every decision is controlled by the community as a whole using tokens associated with the Pokereum DAO. Governance and other organizational activities will start out on the Nxt Voting enabled platform and gradually move to the Ethereum platform; a more robust system for automated enforceable decisions and distributed trust / security. All Pokereum DAPP smart contracts will be built on the Ethereum platform. For more information on how DAO’S might work see this recent article detailing a overall sample framework :: http://www.coindesk.com/succeed-as-decentralized-autonomous-organization/



White paper : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vxjxE-7QMAvo95UzhWftWJ3Ke_gAoNLTQQEudNeUQeY/edit




Screenshot


This is by no means an indication of our current development stage, This is just a sneak peak to the quality of interface we hope you’d love. Expect a video teaser overview of an actual gameplay experience of the client in a few days. ( See “Project status” section)



Purpose:

• Bring in the massive poker user base using a beautiful and enticing front-end user experience
• Leverage crypto currency core users to make payments easy for new crypto poker players
• Provide a provably fair system, fairly resistant to collusion and impossible to game
• Unite crypto-currency communities making Pokereum games currency agnostic
• Improve the utility of your “coin while helping to bring in massive poker user base

Project Highlights:

• Impeccable front end user experience, not just any ol “GUI”
• Easy new crypto user on-boarding by providing new users with options to pre-fund accounts, requesting funds from other crypto poker players localbitcoins style with smart contract escrow
• Provably fair random number generation and encrypted card permutation generation
• Multiple anti-collusion mechanisms including :

      -Table stake group access randomization and challenge response jury pool authentication
      -deployment of low EV dispersible bots at low capacity

• Leveraging stable value currencies like Nubits or BITUSD in addition to projects like “etherex" decentralized exchange for pokereum game chips
• Dapp reserves; valid DAO tokens access Pokereum dapp smart contract holdings of earnings proportional to token amounts

Notable Portions of System of contracts

• Stable value currencies
• Alt-coin payment integration (coin community collaborations needed)
• Request and exchange :: Fiat payments easy access regular players
• Dapp reserves

Project Status :

• Front-end client : 85 % complete (lookout for a video teaser next monday march 2nd)
• Telehash based p2p poker chat component : 95%
• Poker library : 100% complete
• White paper : refinement stage
• Backend smart contract system : refining stage / some development
• Consensus systems : refining stage / some development

Dev Team

• Innovator256 (Ola)
• Momentum
• Juan
• Salam
• Armator
• You +  see link on how to get involved :

we use a javascript stack from front-end to back except for the ethereum solidity

Need more Devs, full time, part time and or coin collaborators. salaries, tokens, bounties. Get in where you fit in. All tokens earnings are on a vested schedule
See link on how to get involved :  https://nxtforum.org/stark-industries-(nxtdice)/dao-board-and-workers-(-decentralized-autonmous-organisation-)/


Social Media Manager

• Jacelace

Community Managers

• You + see link on how to get involved :

https://nxtforum.org/stark-industries-(nxtdice)/dao-board-and-workers-(-decentralized-autonmous-organisation-)/
[/list]

Need up to 7 to start out, you should poses a rational mind and good forum history. Also an understanding of the DAO vision is a must (Read white paper, bylaws etc).  All tokens earnings are on a vested schedule. Contact Stark and see link for more details :



Pokereum DAO Delegates

• Stark (Temporary executor)
• Ron Gross (Tentative)
• Ericcart (Pending)
• You + see link on how to get involved :
  • https://nxtforum.org/stark-industries-(nxtdice)/dao-board-and-workers-(-decentralized-autonmous-organisation-)/
    
    Need up to 7 for DAO Multi-signature distributed trust of resources and DAO community voting. Must understand DAO vision, trustworthy public and private entities with good reputations and forum history welcome. Tokens are earned on a vested schedule. Contact Stark and see links for more details :
    
    Vesting basics :
    
    http://thestartuptoolkit.com/blog/2013/02/equity-basics-vesting-cliffs-acceleration-and-exits/
    
    Bylaws :
    https://nxtforum.org/stark-industries-(nxtdice)/bylaws-and-terms-of-nxtpoker-dao/
    
    Board member oath :
    https://nxtforum.org/stark-industries-(nxtdice)/board-member-oath/
    
    Spending policy :
    https://nxtforum.org/stark-industries-(nxtdice)/spending-policy-and-ground-rules/
    
    
    
    Last but not least :: See information on how to get free tokens :
    
    100 million tokens total, 7 million given out for free. 5 million during the crowdfunding period. 2 million given out before crowdfunding for marketing help.
     https://nxtforum.org/stark-industries-(nxtdice)/marketing-5288/
    
    
    White Paper tl;dr Important Tidbits
    
    
    Parent chain and Security
    
    Parent chain is the ethereum chain on which the Pokereum “Ringed chain” relies. Information block information is stored and retrieved from the ethereum blockchain by new nodes joining the network
       
    Anti-collusion
       
    Multi-strategy anti-collusion mechanisms using:
    -Table stake group access randomization and challenge response jury pool authentication
    -deployment of low EV dispersible bots at low capacity
    
       
    Trustworthiness and Sybil Resilience
    
    Foundation for anti-collusion and a basis for the security of the jury pool consensus system. Using an account effective stake, account velocity and participation as a unit for determining eligibility to the jury consensus pools
    
    Provably fair random number and shuffling
    Multiple random inputs from jury pool nodes are sent to contracts and combined for an increased entropic seed to random number generation, generating multiple encrypted decks by adding and increasing nonces. Multitude of encrypted cards and keys can be generated and stored in decentralized storage until ready for use by the network.
    
    Multi-Networks Player Nodes:
    A pokereum node consist of  an ethereum connected light client , ability to use the whisper protocol alongside decentralized storage and telehash enabled mesh RTC
    
    
    Jury Pools
    These are subsets of the network nodes selected to pools using random information passed to the Pokereum network by the system of ethereum contract in addition to their effective stake, account velocity/participation to perform important task on behalf of the Pokereum network as a whole
    
    
    
    Check Points
    Specific points in the Ethereum blockchain where new nodes can download old information to be sure they have the correct state of the network
    
    
    Epochs Ringed blockchain   
    24 hour, 1 hour intervals. 1 hour is an epoch. Every 25th hour epoch is overwritten by a new 1st hour epoch. each current hour represents the current state of the network
    
    Player gamification point system
    Ten ranks represented by 10 badges. Each rank constitutes a certain number of points. Top ranking nodes are rewarded with rake backs, free private tables, free tournament entries and more as the network matures
    
    Pokereum DAO
       The Pokereum DAO  is in charge of the management of the Pokereum DAPP.
       Members consists of individuals, establishments or autonomous agents. Every
       member of the DAO is incentivized to contribute to the long term success of the DAPP
    
    
    
    Crowdfunding date: TBD by DAO (DAO delegates needed)
    
    
    Most of all, no promises made, no outcome is certain. This is an experiment and you are welcome to be part of it, to help dictate its future. Thank you.
    
    Innovator256