POLL: In the US, is a $250,000 household income middle class?

NUFCrichard

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Quote from: thejaytiesto on March 06, 2015, 12:39:09 PM

Quote from: Possum577 on March 05, 2015, 07:11:07 PM

Quote from: spazzdla on February 25, 2015, 04:14:55 PM

To think the middle class is anything but what the average person earns just goes to show how fucked up this planet is.

So anyone earning a $1 more than the average is upper class income?

Middle class is a range...it has to be a specific amount above and below the average or median household income (depending on which number you subscribe to).

Well you have to stablish limits to start considering something middle class or upper class, it's silly that only 1 dollar can make the difference but like i said before there must be limits.

Not really because they are unimportant notions without meaning, so no defined barriers are needed.
If it were actually of importance then it would be something along the lines of being writhing a certain number of standard deviations of the mean wage in the local area.

I would assume that someone earning 100k in New York is poorer as a percentage of the population than someone earning 90k in Idaho.

Just as a side note, in the UK class has no direct link with earnings, it is more of a family history and job title thing.

thejaytiesto

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Quote from: Possum577 on March 05, 2015, 07:11:07 PM

Quote from: spazzdla on February 25, 2015, 04:14:55 PM

To think the middle class is anything but what the average person earns just goes to show how fucked up this planet is.

So anyone earning a $1 more than the average is upper class income?

Middle class is a range...it has to be a specific amount above and below the average or median household income (depending on which number you subscribe to).

Well you have to stablish limits to start considering something middle class or upper class, it's silly that only 1 dollar can make the difference but like i said before there must be limits.

Q7

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If the cost of living in that area is high, practically I can understand why the need to classify that into middle income household. Because whatever the household earns and then compared against what it costs around you, that basically represents the spending power. Nevertheless, if a household with that income were to going to shift to another outskirt area where practically everything is cheap, then it will be different scenario.

Dissonance

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If your household income is 250k that puts you in the 96 percentile. People who believe that this is still a middle class income must also believe that 5500 is a middle class income as well since that is on the other extreme of the income scale (4%)

Amph

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250k should be way above even in the us, at least now where the money are even more of a toilet paper

some zone are obviously richer than other, and 250k may be seen as a small amount

Kprawn

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I think Donald Trump and Robert Kiyosaki explain it very well in their book .... Why We Want You to be rich -----> http://www.whywewantyoutoberich.com/

The middle class are being destroyed, and we are moving towards a situation, where there are poor and super rich people.

I doubt that $250,000 can be classed as being middle class. {First world countries... in the big cities .. where there are a huge concentration of super rich people, the average income would be higher, not the standard for the whole country though. {But you have a huge concentration of very poor suburbs to take into this average too.. so it tends to influence the numbers}

On average... in the current financial situation... $250,000 seems a bit high. Shocked

innocent93

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You mean $250,000 annually? Yes it's I geuss. Back in the developing country China, $200,000 annual income could only make you "middle class", it sounds a lot, but the truth is some make money far more than $200,000, and this cause the unequal distribution of income in China.

Bonam

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I'd say middle class is anyone in the range of income/wealth that makes the following statements true:

- does not need to worry about having enough money to afford basics like food/shelter/healthcare/etc on a regular basis. That is, they make enough to have security in their access to basic needs.
- does not have a store of wealth sufficiently large that earning income is no longer necessary to ensure the above security for the rest of their life

In the US, anyone making more than about $20-50k/year (depending on location) and holding less than about $2 million in liquid assets could fairly be characterized as middle class.

If you start earning $250k you're middle class for a while, until you've accumulated a few million in your savings/stocks/bonds/etc. Once you have that few million in liquid wealth (excluding value of primary residence), you're upper class, I'd say. If you're earning $500k but spending it all and never manage to accumulate any wealth, you're probably still middle class since if you lose your job you're just as screwed as the guy making $50k. Upper class is about having the freedom to not need to work for a living any more.

Possum577

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Quote from: spazzdla on February 25, 2015, 04:14:55 PM

To think the middle class is anything but what the average person earns just goes to show how fucked up this planet is.

So anyone earning a $1 more than the average is upper class income?

Middle class is a range...it has to be a specific amount above and below the average or median household income (depending on which number you subscribe to).

Possum577

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Here's an article on the cost of living in Silicon Valley -> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2979345/Meet-single-mother-living-250-sqft-GARAGE.html

Average rent for a 2 bedroom apartment or house in San Mateo county is $3,000 USD.

polynesia

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Quote from: KaChingCoinDev on March 03, 2015, 07:38:40 PM

Like spazzdla said, middle class should be the what the average household earns. Silicon Valley average houshold income is $90,000, Average for the US is $69,000. So when you look at it that way, 250K anywhere in the US is above average.

Rather than the average, you should look at the median.
A few very rich people could skew the average.

KaChingCoinDev

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Like spazzdla said, middle class should be the what the average household earns. Silicon Valley average houshold income is $90,000, Average for the US is $69,000. So when you look at it that way, 250K anywhere in the US is above average.

spazzdla

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To think the middle class is anything but what the average person earns just goes to show how fucked up this planet is.

Possum577

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Thanks for everyone's responses.

It's great to hear what the relative figures are in other countries, even though they can't be compared fairly across the board.

DoOM, I agree with you completely, in the US $250k household income is great, no matter where you live. But it's not "family is set" money. It doesn't impact generations.

d0om

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For those who are attempting to neatly cut out a small American demographic and transplant it into their own society... Just stop, you can't compare an income and class in one nation to another nation, with a completely different government, laws, populations, and so on.

The cost of living in California is greater, yes, but 250k is pushing Middle-Upper class. Several generations ago, both of my families were firmly middle-upper/upper class - both of my grandpas were doctors. My moms side had all girls, and my dads side only had one go beyond a bachelors degree. Before I moved out, our family was spending the last of what was left in savings, with my dad nearing retirement making ~33k + benefits per year as the only household income. His previous company bit the dust around 6 years ago...

Why do I say this? I guess it's anecdotal evidence to support the disappearing middle class. In addition, 250k with higher costs is probably more like 150k-200k, depending on benefits and so on. Although that's very good, it won't last through several less prosperous generations. You'd need at least a steady 500k - 1,000,000 level income that is secured and invested properly to have "family staying power" wealth.

bitgeek

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Quote from: Possum577 on February 24, 2015, 09:06:10 PM

Quote from: bitgeek on February 24, 2015, 06:09:20 PM

Quote from: Possum577 on February 24, 2015, 02:32:20 PM

http://money.cnn.com/infographic/real_estate/what-you-need-to-earn-to-afford-a-home/

And article showing how much salary is needed to buy a home in different cities around the US. Perhaps a bit of perspective.

That's why I was amazed by the prices and salaries. If I needed to earn $31,716 a year to afford the cheapest house on your list I'd never get it, nor would anyone I know.

Where do you live?

In Poland. Minimum net wage here is a bit over $2.2 per hour and income tax threshold is $830, go figure...
If I earned over $30k I'd be rollin' in it and probably have my own business and own a few apartments in the city in the next 10 years Cheesy

viboracecata

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Quote from: Possum577 on February 24, 2015, 01:16:15 PM

Quote from: bitgeek on February 23, 2015, 02:35:28 PM

250000 a year and considered a middle class? Shocked

WOW you Americans must be rolling in cash.

Did you read the article? Sounds like your missing the point.

$250,000 is NOT middle class in the US, but in some cities (e.g., New York and San Francisco) $250,000 only buys a middle class lifestyle, modest house, regular cars, etc. It's crazy, rent for a 2 bedroom 1000 sq foot home is $3000 or more a month. There's so much business in these cities and so many people that want to live in these cities that the price of everything goes ski high. This, in turn, raises incomes because people can't work in the area of they can't afford to live there.

Check out the cost of living in Tokyo, Singapore, and Hong Kong. You'll find the same thing going on.

That's crazy, the income can give one person a life like emperor in most of the world

Razick

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Yes, and that's also why a federal minimum wage is an even worse idea than a state minimum wage. A wage of $10.10 in Texas would equate to something like $12.50 based on the nationwide PPP (purchase price parity) while in California it might only be $8.50 or so.

If I remember correctly, the current $7.25 rate is equivalent to around $6.70 in California and $9.50 in Texas.

Possum577

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Quote from: bitgeek on February 24, 2015, 06:09:20 PM

Quote from: Possum577 on February 24, 2015, 02:32:20 PM

http://money.cnn.com/infographic/real_estate/what-you-need-to-earn-to-afford-a-home/

And article showing how much salary is needed to buy a home in different cities around the US. Perhaps a bit of perspective.

That's why I was amazed by the prices and salaries. If I needed to earn $31,716 a year to afford the cheapest house on your list I'd never get it, nor would anyone I know.

Where do you live?

bitgeek

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Quote from: Possum577 on February 24, 2015, 02:32:20 PM

http://money.cnn.com/infographic/real_estate/what-you-need-to-earn-to-afford-a-home/

And article showing how much salary is needed to buy a home in different cities around the US. Perhaps a bit of perspective.

That's why I was amazed by the prices and salaries. If I needed to earn $31,716 a year to afford the cheapest house on your list I'd never get it, nor would anyone I know.

Razick

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Quote from: oblivi on February 22, 2015, 07:34:43 PM

Most people have enough money to pay the bills and that's that. The middle class is slowly disappearing, at the end we'll have only lower and upper (then the mega elite rich 1% that live off everyone else doing shit nothing while pretending they are doing something).

You know, income inequality is a problem, but I don't know a single person, including those who are upper class, who fit into this category. My network is full of hard working people across the income spectrum.

I currently work for a little more than minimum wage myself, but you know what? That's okay. I am young and have few marketable skills, I will keep building those, and chances are, I have a good shot long term just as almost any non-lazy, able bodied person does.

Maybe all of the 500+ people I know who are hard working members of the middle class are just lucky, or maybe people should spend less time complaining and more time working hard to build skills and provide value to their clients and/or employers. If I was a manager or business owner, the guy moping around complaining about how poorly paid he is would be the last to receive a raise.

Most wealthy people are hard working, and I know several who you wouldn't even know are high-income because they bust their backs and live modest lifestyles (they are also kind, generous people). Now, thanks to the Federal Reserve, there are people who sit around making millions from the artificially high stock market, but that's the exception (and you can take advantage of the stock market too).

MCHouston

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Where am I?

I would say $250k is probably middle class for Silicon Valley, Seattle, NYC etc. In most of the US $250k would be upper middle class. I would think most middle classes are $90K-$225K depending on area and how many salaries are bringing in the cash. If you and your wife both have six figure salaries that shoots up the household income but it is two people as where a single guy is making $250k he is definitely well off.

KaChingCoinDev

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I think 250,000 income is where upper class starts, except for silicon valley, and other rich areas.

Possum577

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http://money.cnn.com/infographic/real_estate/what-you-need-to-earn-to-afford-a-home/

An article showing how much salary is needed to buy a home in different cities around the US. Perhaps a bit of perspective.

Possum577

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Quote from: bitgeek on February 23, 2015, 02:35:28 PM

250000 a year and considered a middle class? Shocked

WOW you Americans must be rolling in cash.

Did you read the article? Sounds like your missing the point.

$250,000 is NOT middle class in the US, but in some cities (e.g., New York and San Francisco) $250,000 only buys a middle class lifestyle, modest house, regular cars, etc. It's crazy, rent for a 2 bedroom 1000 sq foot home is $3000 or more a month. There's so much business in these cities and so many people that want to live in these cities that the price of everything goes ski high. This, in turn, raises incomes because people can't work in the area of they can't afford to live there.

Check out the cost of living in Tokyo, Singapore, and Hong Kong. You'll find the same thing going on.

bitgeek

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250000 a year and considered a middle class? Shocked

WOW you Americans must be rolling in cash.

Possum577

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Quote from: thejaytiesto on February 23, 2015, 09:10:49 AM

If you are making more than 20K after taxes these days, you can consider yourself LUCKY.

What part of the country do you live in?

ajareselde

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Quote from: Possum577 on February 22, 2015, 03:50:42 PM

There was an article recently (link below) where someone says their family, who lives in Silicon Valley and has a household income of $250,000, is middle class. I'm familiar with this geographic area, how much it costs to live in the area, and how much people are paid and I believe that income level IS middle class for that area. But this person received a ton of negative response from people regarding the dollar amount of the income (and seemingly disregarding the cost of living in the Bay Area of California).

Do you think a household income of $250,000 is middle class for the San Francisco area? For California? For major cities in the US?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/university-michigan-student-insists-earning-183000778.html

~20 000 $ a month, definetly middle class if you ask me, no matter what the cost of living is, i doubt it can impact on this family's budget to that extent to move them under middle class.
It would make a difference also, if family owns their home or not, since that would lower their spending ability..

cheers

thejaytiesto

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If you are making more than 20K after taxes these days, you can consider yourself LUCKY.

PenguinFire

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Most would not agree with the idea but my textbook would describe this amount as "upper middle class".

Possum577

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Quote from: oblivi on February 22, 2015, 07:34:43 PM

Most people have enough money to pay the bills and that's that. The middle class is slowly disappearing, at the end we'll have only lower and upper (then the mega elite rich 1% that live off everyone else doing shit nothing while pretending they are doing something).

You don't think there's a way for the middle class to survive?

oblivi

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Most people have enough money to pay the bills and that's that. The middle class is slowly disappearing, at the end we'll have only lower and upper (then the mega elite rich 1% that live off everyone else doing shit nothing while pretending they are doing something).

lyth0s

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My old textbook in high school defined the Upper class as those who have at least a gross annual income of $1,000,000 per year. Using that definition, yes $250,000 is definitely middle class.

I define middle class as anyone who depends their job salary for income rather than their asset sheet. In which case that would still define that 250K person as middle class.

Homes in any nice area of California easily run for $400,000 to 1-2 million dollars. If you live in rich cities like Beverly Hills then obviously much more than that. If you live in a poor city in Southern california you're looking at maybe 250,000-300,000 for a house and these figures don't even include any other liabilities that a person may have.

Usually if you make 100-150K+ a year in California you would be referred to as Upper Middle Class.

Possum577

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There was an article recently (link below) where someone says their family, who lives in Silicon Valley and has a household income of $250,000, is middle class. I'm familiar with this geographic area, how much it costs to live in the area, and how much people are paid and I believe that income level IS middle class for that area. But this person received a ton of negative response from people regarding the dollar amount of the income (and seemingly disregarding the cost of living in the Bay Area of California).

Do you think a household income of $250,000 is middle class for the San Francisco area? For California? For major cities in the US?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/university-michigan-student-insists-earning-183000778.html

Topic: POLL: In the US, is a $250,000 household income middle class? (Read 2700 times)