Topic: [POLL] Oldest N American footprints found. Irony that descendants are rez bound? (Read 164 times)

There are a lot of things in that which I disagree with.

1) Saying "some tribes chose to cooperate with the invaders hoping to defeat their former perceived enemies" is an example of oversimplifying things to the point of meaninglessness. Guessing somebody else's motives you should be careful. In this case your statement is both true and false, but it muddies the water.

2) China and Britain are very similar historically, only China has been making the mistake for longer. Everything you say about China, there are Westerners who say the same about Britain/U.S./Australia. Britain/U.S./Australia plays an elaborate game of a) forcing conquered tribes to submit, then b) re educating their children to serve the original conquering society, then c) using those trained subjects as soldiers to grow the empire in more and more hidden ways. China does the same, but in a less global way and with refinements it has learned over thousands of years.

3) Defense corporations don't need foreign consumers? What? There is a saying 'the business of America is business'. Prostitution of any kind requires the presence of an outside party. 'Defense' is a code word for 'We have guns, you have money, fork it over'.

4) real peace between the PRC and USA? It's like a rapist and a murderer are running rampant and you want them to work together? Newsflash they are already working together.

5) You say "I am a big fan of china because it doesn't impose things on me or even attempt as long as I am not in china, contrary to the usa...

for me china is a place that offers, not a place that imposes." It's sad to see people brainwashed by any corporate entity, whether China or U.S./UK/Aus or any other. China, like U.S./UK/Aus. does not give you anything. It takes from you, then offers what it has taken and kills you if you are not grateful for the thief trade.

6) re 'chosen people of' etc, that is another colonial trick in both directions. You can spend a while studying European analytical psychology, CG Jung etc, and you will see better the problem. Everybody has 'a god' or even 'many'. Saying 'yours is not real but mine is' is not actually criticizing the external 'gods' but the originating path of a group of people.

There are genuine paths that have roots and are based in reality, neither comminism nor christianity nor any political or religious group effort falls in that category though.

At this point, China is not threatened by the west. Like the U.S., its biggest enemy is itself. For all of history there has always been one or two groups on top. Now its becoming China's turn, where it will do the same as all previous have done i.e., it will fantasize it's supremacy in all things based on its ability to conquer those who invest less in weapons.

hanks for your great answer ; Abcdefghijklmnzzz,

My only reproach is the lack of unity post contact. and this lack of unity came from the unresolved fault line exploited by the invaders. I find sad, that some tribes chose to cooperate with the invaders hoping to defeat their former perceived enemies. meaning that many unresolved issues, certainly from injustice, should have been way earlier.

I am not a "han" anthropology specialist, but from what I understood, I though it was a very coherent group, composed of 800 millions people, and combined with all the others tribes of china (the southerners being the largest with 200+ millions members and the 2000+ languages representing the wholes), creates what is called China, 1 China.

United stateans have a 400 years of history... since beach landing by columbus. Who has the emperor of china on this day? you can't compare.

my opinion is that us defense corporations absolutely don't need foreign consumers, and worst it impedes the modernization of the factories.

who needs it, is the rotten corrupt congress. and more importantly, who really fear real peace between PRC and the USA?

America is on one side of the pacific with hawai'i and it's various islets, china on the other side with taiwan.

far from me, from supporting a nwo, one world gov, or bilateral hegemonist world.

china does it own things, usa its. I just find it better than war, even if it would serve the interests of 3rd parties...

my point is that rather than going to war between china and usa, for 3rd parties, maybe first, wiping those 3rd parties, would be bring battlefield clarity, for real war.

if like if the two best assassin the world decided to fight, but first killed together all the spectators... it won't be difficult, and secondly there won't be interferences, in the duel of a life time.

I am a big fan of china because it doesn't impose things on me or even attempt as long as I am not in china, contrary to the usa...

for me china is a place that offers, not a place that imposes.

and I am a fan of the exquisite sophistication of some part of the chinese culture, at least all I have seen .

another things I am extatic about china is how the meme "chosen people of god (tm)" is gently, pushed aside, like all those primitive barbaric tribes who tried this trick before... they are as amusing as unoriginal... be creative.

and what always amuses me, is all those savages who hate china, want to invade it and conquer it... I find them a little bit crazy, or stupid, because I don't think they understand in which trouble they let themselves be trapped in...

or resaid : who can the most exquisite, may you not face it, when to war it turns... I remind the foreign enemies, that they are foremost organic or inorganic feed...  call it exquisite darkness if you wish .

Ha ha, Native Americans are the furthest traveling people for good reason. They do not operate as gangsters. If you want an easy job done poorly and slowly by a hundred people then hire a person from an industrialized melting pot. If you want a risky job done quickly and well by one person you will do best to choose a Native.

Several thousand years ago, while everybody else in the world was trying to invent a wheel, a small group of Natives saw a whale and said 'Let's get it'.


'Han' is like saying 'United Statesian'.

China had a lot of diverse tribes, and calling all of them 'Han' is a melting pot way of conditioning people to believe they are one group.

Same way the United States removes Native American identity and tries to get them to consider themselves 'United statesians'.

"Chu, who badly lost the 2016 presidential election to current President Tsai Ing-wen, responded to Xi that people on both sides of the Taiwan Strait were "all the children of the Yellow Emperor" — in other words, all Han Chinese."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/china/china-s-president-xi-jinping-warns-grim-taiwan-situation-letter-n1280107

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/taiwanese-us-insist-identity-not-political-choice-must-census-option-rcna2225


Of course the main effect of Taiwan is that it gives an excuse for U.S. defense corporations to solicit money.

The U.S. has no ideology, no base, aside from it's corporate defenses. It is a British outpost trying to absorb less armed groups as quickly as possible, and lock up control of a vast piece of real estate before Natives have the means to get real sovereignty. Meanwhile, it takes money where it finds it.

'Native' and 'indigenous' are pretty much the same, but four syllables sounds smarter.


Do you mean mutually assured destruction?

That is an old concept.

The modern version is 'An army of one'.

Mass weapons are proliferating rapidly, and there are literally millions of people today with the technical skills, whether biology, chemistry, genetics, physics, to eliminate any army.

There is a reason that for 50 years the United States has only attacked groups which live in or near the stone age and can be held at bay with firecrackers.

MAD are powerful weapons...

First, something has to go into the footprint quickly, or it will be washed away by rain or tread on by animals. Footprint impression is made, then it fills with something like sand.

There are many layers, and if it were millions of years, not 23,000, then they would be in rock.



It's a biological game.

Country 'a' conquers group 'b' and receives a certain amount of new genetic material which revives it a bit, makes it more powerful for more conquering.

There's a problem though.

If you have two groups with some mixing they both benefit genetically. And if you have one group which utterly exterminates another group then they benefit by getting land.

But if you have two groups with some mixing, then one of the groups goes extinct, as has been happening since East met west, then there is a genetic frailty introduced into the survivor. Previously 'selected for' traits become recessive and the 'empire' becomes more and more deficient, weaker genetically.

Empire games will end naturally, but there is no need for humans to follow that route.

Fuck them, those muppets foughts among themselves, and weren't able to push back a few boats? noobs, unstructured, as said : savages ! victory was so easy, but the internal problems : corruptions > chief's son fucks, etc.... lead to total collapse... ahh the great hero of south america : whose is name is? mendes? or maybe cortez ? ahh we have it : Hernán Cortés de Monroy y Pizarro Altamirano, 1st Marquess of the Valley of Oaxaca... at one point, face it : united we stand, divided we fall !

empires... what a shame usage of the word : you need a language, written, time, written, culture, religion, unifed leadership, but empire is an insult to the Republic ( SPQR) why? because imperialism embodies a divine aspect from egyptian origin, the clean word you are look for is dictator . Neglecting the role of the kingdom and follow french republic in american affairs is only detrimental to your understanding.

Core China? Mainland china? mega china? CPC? what ever you want... Han is specific, all those involved know, no chauvinism, however the alliance, is very strong, and invicible. simple do as you wish, as human beings, however if you need help, all come... for 1, 1 china !

I am sorry to say, but you don't understand what happened to the indegenous people of taiwan, first they aren't so pacific islanders, they just live next door, so mainland - taiwan is as old as china... second point when the forces of the renegade debarked, of course there is no real culture shock, as it's just a classical move, in the chinese domestic battlespace, a last hope, a last resort, a time to think and maybe find conciliatory terms with the new power of the center of the universe !

Please, usa corrupts try to skim a few $ from taiwan... that's it.

I don't like the word "indigenous", I prefer natives... as such it broaden the scope a lot of who is really a native... where are the hans from?

1st American republic? There were empires in the Americas long before the U.S. The United States is notable not as the first, but as the first successful foreign occupation government in the new world. The U.S. is a western European entity designed to push Western European World view on other cultures so those indigenous to the original colonizing entity i.e., Britain, have a material advantage in foreign relations.

'Core China' is a confusing idea. The Chinese did what the British are doing, but a lot earlier. So today you have lots of conquered tribes throughout China which refer to themselves by an imperial name 'Han' even though they are separate tribes still consolidating.

Taiwan is an example of the danger of promoting indigenous rights. China and the U.S. are cooperating to subdue indigenous cultures, but to do that they have to maintain a tension, a sort of fake rivalry. The U.S. pretends to support Taiwan, but in fact simply helps Mainland China prepare for a peaceful return or surrender of Taiwan. In Exchange, Mainland China helps the U.S. with its conquering of indigenous people in a discreet way.

Of course the U.N. works for China and the U.S. What else could be?

The silly tragedy are the people who imagine they are 'U.S. American' or 'Chinese' when really they are only conquered tribals who have been conditioned to serve their new master.

Fortunately, in the Americas, there are tiny pockets of indigenous people competent to restore things

they can encircle china has much as they want, it only dilute their front... and then as you say, to do what? to invade china? to first strke china? at one point...

There is a prevailing theory among scientists that things have been going on throughout all time approximately the same way, and that if there are changes, the changes are mostly gradual. This causes them to mistakenly think that C-14 amounts decreased gradually, and never increase at all from outside sources. They don't recognize that additions of non-C-14 volumes could have happened rapidly for some unknown reason. So, they depend on carbon dating falsely without knowing it.

There are places in the geological strata - which are dated for thousands of years, top to bottom - where trees penetrate all the way from top to bottom. Geologists don't have a clear answer as to how this could be. Or they make up a story that sounds more like science fiction to explain it. But their agenda to prove an old earth drives them to not accept the simple truth... that the age of the strata is far less than they are claiming.

But what made that mud dried up? It looks very abrupt like the sun suddenly stays under it for a long time covering the footprints with dust and preserved.


They aren't kidding alright. So they bring another player like AUS and now even France is about to react violently, more nukes are about to be activated.

Great empires collapse after hundreds of years. It always does, humans never really learn that but we kept conquering still when in fact they should just disable their nukes to show if they really want peace. But threats of retaliation made them prepare for the worse.

and now it's the turn of the 1st american republic to die... the "world gov" project killed the american dream, by design, and of course as the first natives, too weak, too fat, too disorganized, unable to fight, classic.

I don't believe that Core China (now CPC) will ever surrender its sovereignty, including over taiwan renegade island. patience, give always more time to prepare .

look even the uno knows to not tread on taiwan domestic issue... why? because they understand we ain't kidding... simply said : we kill, and a lot if necessary, haven't we proved it enough? we know, that's enough.

The original article says several layers were dated by carbon dating seeds, with older seeds, which were used to date the footprints, under, and newer on top.

Also there were woolly mammoth footprints above the human footprints, at a newer level.

I have no idea how exactly a layer gets covered up and preserved.

The grand canyon is the opposite question though, and it took a long time. You can see the layers at the grand canyon, eroded only by water over millions of years.

It's more likely that it spanned several days, and not thousands of years.

How long did it take to form the Grand Canyon ditch? Consider that there are places in various States where standard runoff created 100-foot ditches in 3 or 4 days.

The official extrapolation of time doesn't take more than a few possibilities into account.

That's an interesting point, but they weren't walking on the mud to bathe, probably, they were just walking on mud.

The site has many layers of footprints, spanning a few thousand years. So it was a 'populated area' rather than a bathing area, if a person assumed hygiene was important to them and they set aside a bathing area.

Water levels in all lakes vary a great deal over thousands of years, so any place set aside for bathing would move.

A fair guess is that not only did they eat woolly mammoths but they also ate snail darters and other fish.


There are many layers of clay there with separate sets of footprints at each level. Something must have happened sporadically, before rainfall ruined the steps, to deposit a new layer that saved the old footprints. Maybe sandstorms or something.

The United States conquers countries and genocides weaker groups because it can. If Polynesians had the power they would do the same. The problem is human nature and the solution is adequate weapons proliferated properly. People who have adequate weapons don't go extinct. Today the cutting edge is bioweapons. A single person can create bioweapons to exterminate a person, a group or a race. Things will get rough unless hard borders are established soon.

I really think this is about archeology topic. Was wondering how that clay remains as is that the footprints are still there.

America is just a big continent which a big powerful race can immediately rule everyone even commit genocide to wipe a race. Even Polynesian islands are not spared to have their own independence in their world. Conquered and bombed but no one bats an eye.

They were in the mud to make those footprints. Do you really think they bathed and showered (under the falls) with their clothes on? I mean, do you? In your bathroom?

Are you doubting that they wore clothes or that they ate endangered species?

They were not walking on glaciers, but they were around when glaciers were at the maximum

https://www.backyardnature.net/g/glaciers.gif

And global temperatures somewhat cooler

https://www.climate4you.com/images/VostokTemp0-420000%20BP.gif

And their ancestors had crossed a lot of hostile climate.

Soy burgers had not been invented by then, so they almost certainly had to eat woolly mammoths and other unpackaged foods.

So you and your links have been back there to visit them then, right? I think everybody would be much more interested in your time machine than in some footprints. They still had toe-jam between the toes, didn't they?

These people were not naked, just they didn't have shoes. Technically they were not hippies either, since they they ate Mastadons, American lions, Sabre toothed tigers and Mammoths, all of which hippies are afraid to kill because they are worried about getting bad vibes from killing endangered species..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastodon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_lion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smilodon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammoth

It's not always easy finding the places where the hippies hang out in resort areas, parks, forests, and wildlife refuges. Often they are barefoot, because they aren't wearing anything else, either. As long as they are somewhat nomadic, rangers leave them alone... probably because they like to watch naked people, but more than likely because they are part of the group when they get off work.

The oldest known footprints in North America were found recently in New Mexico, USA.

https://www.science.org/content/article/human-footprints-near-ice-age-lake-suggest-surprisingly-early-arrival-americas

Is it ironic that the descendants of those people no longer have cultural sovereignty in the place the footprints were found unless they surrender first to a conqueror that arrived ~20,000 years later?

Or do barefeet people have fewer property rights?

Indigenous cultures in the United States have been largely wiped out. There are still many theme park tribes in the U.S., groups that speak English and have no power unless they adopt Western European culture, but they are rapidly surrendering / assimilating.

How many years do western European interests need to 'own' North America before they fully own it and don't have to worry about challenges to their supremacy?