[POLL] Pros and Cons of open publickey lists of collectibles

krogothmanhattan

legendary

Activity: 2520

Merit: 3238

The Stone the masons rejected was the cornerstone.

Quote from: wheelz1200 on May 06, 2019, 04:39:36 PM

Quote from: Crypto_Collection on May 06, 2019, 04:29:54 PM

Quote from: yogg on May 06, 2019, 03:53:06 PM

Quote from: Crypto_Collection on May 06, 2019, 03:43:05 PM

You can't figure out the entire public address from the firstbits on the back of the coin.

Hmmm.. Yes you can ! Just did it

https://www.walletexplorer.com/address/1BFC5eFg5stS2YdD6CmUN4atJxfskLWWT?from_firstbits=1BFC5eFg

It works only with coins that have been loaded.
Firstbits for buyer funded coins that hasn't been loaded won't work.

EDIT : I guess it makes it difficult to load second hands buyer funded coins. Roll Eyes

Nice! you were probably the original buyer of the coin (also your coin is not etched buyer funded & was funded in 2014)

For example: If you were to send me a similar coin that was not funded yet, I would not be able to determine the remaining bits

1BFC5eFg Huh

The only way I could verify the real address is a pgp signed message from Smoothie - which commonly get lost

Hmm i think you are right, if its unfunded buyer funded smoothie coins then only the original buyer with the original PM from smoothie would be able to know the full addy. That is an issue.

I bought two rolls for these buyer funded coins...smoothie provided addy list along with the coins.

That being said...they will only show up on walletexplorer once they have been funded. So yes..its a dilemma if you dont have the addies.

Btw..it cannot be found on blockchain because those addies dont yet exist funded on blockchain..so they dont exist except on the coin itself.

wheelz1200

legendary

Activity: 3752

Merit: 1415

Quote from: Crypto_Collection on May 06, 2019, 04:29:54 PM

Quote from: yogg on May 06, 2019, 03:53:06 PM

Quote from: Crypto_Collection on May 06, 2019, 03:43:05 PM

You can't figure out the entire public address from the firstbits on the back of the coin.

Hmmm.. Yes you can ! Just did it

https://www.walletexplorer.com/address/1BFC5eFg5stS2YdD6CmUN4atJxfskLWWT?from_firstbits=1BFC5eFg

It works only with coins that have been loaded.
Firstbits for buyer funded coins that hasn't been loaded won't work.

EDIT : I guess it makes it difficult to load second hands buyer funded coins. Roll Eyes

Nice! you were probably the original buyer of the coin (also your coin is not etched buyer funded & was funded in 2014)

For example: If you were to send me a similar coin that was not funded yet, I would not be able to determine the remaining bits

1BFC5eFg Huh

The only way I could verify the real address is a pgp signed message from Smoothie - which commonly get lost

Hmm i think you are right, if its unfunded buyer funded smoothie coins then only the original buyer with the original PM from smoothie would be able to know the full addy. That is an issue.

Crypto_Collection

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 143

Quote from: yogg on May 06, 2019, 03:53:06 PM

Quote from: Crypto_Collection on May 06, 2019, 03:43:05 PM

You can't figure out the entire public address from the firstbits on the back of the coin.

Hmmm.. Yes you can ! Just did it

https://www.walletexplorer.com/address/1BFC5eFg5stS2YdD6CmUN4atJxfskLWWT?from_firstbits=1BFC5eFg

It works only with coins that have been loaded.
Firstbits for buyer funded coins that hasn't been loaded won't work.

EDIT : I guess it makes it difficult to load second hands buyer funded coins. Roll Eyes

Nice! you were probably the original buyer of the coin (also your coin is not etched buyer funded & was funded in 2014)

For example: If you were to send me a similar coin that was not funded yet, I would not be able to determine the remaining bits

1BFC5eFg Huh

The only way I could verify the real address is a pgp signed message from Smoothie - which commonly get lost

yogg

legendary

Activity: 2464

Merit: 3158

Quote from: Crypto_Collection on May 06, 2019, 03:43:05 PM

You can't figure out the entire public address from the firstbits on the back of the coin.

Hmmm.. Yes you can ! Just did it

https://www.walletexplorer.com/address/1BFC5eFg5stS2YdD6CmUN4atJxfskLWWT?from_firstbits=1BFC5eFg

It works only with coins that have been loaded.
Firstbits for buyer funded coins that hasn't been loaded won't work.

EDIT : I guess it makes it difficult to load second hands buyer funded coins. Roll Eyes

Crypto_Collection

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 143

If the coin comes unfunded with a private key under the holo, the address (list) should be public.

Second hand BF Lealana BTC coins are not loadable because only the original buyer was sent the address Huh

You can't figure out the entire public address from the firstbits on the back of the coin.

yogg

legendary

Activity: 2464

Merit: 3158

About the dust, if some physical bitcoin got some, there is always the possibility of using a "Coin control" feature on wallets that allow for it.
Technically, sweeping a coin with lots of dust inputs would result in a large transaction, hence increasing transaction fees.

With Coin control, you can select only a particular input for your transaction, the one being the loading of the item.

Yes, it is not cool to have our beloved items dusted but besides keeping the public address unknown, there isn't much to do to prevent it.
I wanted to drop that, besides a collectible premium (which is not negligible), at time of redeeming it doesn't necessarily makes it more expensive (tx fee wise), as it would not bring a taint forward, to spend a dusted coin.

Just make sure to not select the taint. But this adds some unnecessary complexity to the process.

PassThePopcorn

sr. member

Activity: 463

Merit: 309

Quote from: OgNasty on May 06, 2019, 12:24:44 PM

Bitcoin’s blockchain is public for a reason and allows this sort of transparency without compromising address owners. I am still dumbfounded by the amount of people not using the transparency Bitcoin offers. I used to think it was ineptitude, but now I think it’s just laziness or hiding nefarious activity.

Quote from: krogothmanhattan on May 06, 2019, 03:16:21 AM

Dusting taints a coin...dont violate my coins worth with dusting no matter how you spin it...to me it defaces a coins worth.

You don’t have to spend the dust. It literally shouldn’t make any difference to you.

Here’s a public list of addresses anyone is free to dust.
https://nastyfans.org/mint.json

There is a difference in your coins to other coins is there not?

Your coins are where dividends get sent and don't have a set face value.

Krogothmanhattan's have a face value.

To me while I would like to validate my coin before purchase, I would much rather prefer my 1k bit coin have only 1k bits. I wouldn't want to wake up one day and see there are a bunch of dust transactions making my nice clean 1k bit coin into 1k bits + w/e dust got sent to it. Now if I woke up and found over 2k bits I wouldn't be that unhappy but we aren't talking about doubling value we are talking about getting dust sent.

Now if there was a way to validate the coin without someone being able to dust the address that would be something I would be interested in.

OgNasty

donator

Activity: 4760

Merit: 4323

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Bitcoin’s blockchain is public for a reason and allows this sort of transparency without compromising address owners. I am still dumbfounded by the amount of people not using the transparency Bitcoin offers. I used to think it was ineptitude, but now I think it’s just laziness or hiding nefarious activity.

Quote from: krogothmanhattan on May 06, 2019, 03:16:21 AM

Dusting taints a coin...dont violate my coins worth with dusting no matter how you spin it...to me it defaces a coins worth.

You don’t have to spend the dust. It literally shouldn’t make any difference to you.

Here’s a public list of addresses anyone is free to dust.
https://nastyfans.org/mint.json

krogothmanhattan

legendary

Activity: 2520

Merit: 3238

The Stone the masons rejected was the cornerstone.

Dusting taints a coin...dont violate my coins worth with dusting no matter how you spin it...to me it defaces a coins worth.

If my public address for the coin is not publicly listed then my coins addy will stay at the value that matches the face value on the face of coin and not one Satoshi more.

If some asshole decides to dust...then he will find it impossible to do so..unless he dusts every known addy out there

FFrankie

hero member

Activity: 2254

Merit: 960

100% Deposit Match UP TO €5000!

If you have nothing to hide, why not be transparent ? I don't see why dusting is a problem, if anyone wants to dust any of my coins feel free to PM me, I'll take some free btc.

wheelz1200

legendary

Activity: 3752

Merit: 1415

Dust is inevitable. Although I do like "clean funding" it doesn't bother me either way when buying/selling. It is the nature of public ledgers. If I remember right someone was collecting coins with sochi dusted casascius coins. Maybe even the dusted coins will have a special premium one day Tongue

iBitcoinHongKong8

copper member

Activity: 441

Merit: 180

Quote from: Kryptowerk on May 05, 2019, 05:43:21 PM

Quote from: teeGUMES on May 05, 2019, 05:38:19 PM

Look at premium for day one funded Casascius coins.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/auction-casascius-error-coin-first-day-funded-proceeds-to-zephers-family-5122062
If public keys weren't released nobody would know if they had one of the earliest funded coins or not. The joy of having a public ledger on the blockchain.

Quote from: wheelz1200 on May 05, 2019, 05:29:47 PM

I like publicly verifiable physical coin addresses. People have done good work on data bases which is helpful.

I particularly like the casascius trackers because I can see how many unpeeled coins are left. I think this will be useful going forward as far as value goes. What if cas coin addresses werent public how would we ever know 20 years from now how many are left unpeeled. You might hold the last unpeeled coin but never know it.

Very good pro-public arguments. Thanks for contributing, I find this a very interesting discussion.

Agreed. These are some phenomenal points and I'm very interested in seeing where this goes. This is a great learning resource for a noob like myself. I imagine some excellent arguments will continue to be made and hopefully more and more great thinking and ideas comes about!

Mbitr

legendary

Activity: 2086

Merit: 1321

Bitcoin needs you!

In the general bitcoin world , it’s trustless .But when I explain to the (few ) bitcoin people about loaded items for sale it just does “ not compute “ . The loaded items, collectibles, coins, tokens WORLD Is unique and IS dependent on trust fortunately/unfortunately!

Kryptowerk

legendary

Activity: 2114

Merit: 1403

Disobey.

Quote from: teeGUMES on May 05, 2019, 05:38:19 PM

Look at premium for day one funded Casascius coins.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/auction-casascius-error-coin-first-day-funded-proceeds-to-zephers-family-5122062
If public keys weren't released nobody would know if they had one of the earliest funded coins or not. The joy of having a public ledger on the blockchain.

Quote from: wheelz1200 on May 05, 2019, 05:29:47 PM

I like publicly verifiable physical coin addresses. People have done good work on data bases which is helpful.

I particularly like the casascius trackers because I can see how many unpeeled coins are left. I think this will be useful going forward as far as value goes. What if cas coin addresses werent public how would we ever know 20 years from now how many are left unpeeled. You might hold the last unpeeled coin but never know it.

Very good pro-public arguments. Thanks for contributing, I find this a very interesting discussion.

teeGUMES

legendary

Activity: 1253

Merit: 1203

Look at premium for day one funded Casascius coins.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/auction-casascius-error-coin-first-day-funded-proceeds-to-zephers-family-5122062
If public keys weren't released nobody would know if they had one of the earliest funded coins or not. The joy of having a public ledger on the blockchain.

iBitcoinHongKong8

copper member

Activity: 441

Merit: 180

Quote from: wheelz1200 on May 05, 2019, 05:29:47 PM

I like publicly verifiable physical coin addresses. People have done good work on data bases which is helpful.

I particularly like the casascius trackers because I can see how many unpeeled coins are left. I think this will be useful going forward as far as value goes. What if cas coin addresses werent public how would we ever know 20 years from now how many are left unpeeled. You might hold the last unpeeled coin but never know it.

Now this is very true. I love the Casascius tracker tool @rusbitcoinuser has built at https://casascius.ludvigart.com. It's incredible to be able to pull that up and see things in wonderful detail!

iBHK8

iBitcoinHongKong8

copper member

Activity: 441

Merit: 180

Quote from: Mbitr on May 05, 2019, 05:25:56 PM

Quote from: iBitcoinHongKong8 on May 05, 2019, 05:05:17 PM

Quote from: Mbitr on May 05, 2019, 04:46:21 PM

I mean it’s all to do with transparency. I’m all for it, I’m new to the collectibles world , but in my short time, I’m getting clued up quickly ! I’d much rather know when the coin was funded and from which addressees - hopefully associated with the maker.

Hi All,
I'm also new to the collectibles world and I have to say the very first thing I check for when I'm entering discussions on me purchasing a coin is to see whether or not it's been dusted or not. If it has I've always passed. I just for whatever reason don't want a dusted coin if I can avoid it. Now I understand what's public is public however going forward if there is a better or more elaborate way to manage this I think that would be best. Something like when the 2 parties enter in discussions for buying/selling they give up the firstbits, etc. Just my 2 bits fellas! Grin

iBHK8

Totally agree with you , and interestingly from looking at the poll, it seems to be that there isn’t a perfect solution as of yet . These awesome people making collectibles haven’t come up with a perfect solution, but I would say in this forum I’m happy and content what’s being produced and sold .

Yep there's a great and smart group of people in this community. I honestly thought I'd buy a couple of Cas pieces and be gone but everyone has been great for the most part so I'm gonna be sticking around as I enjoy and appreciate this community more each day. I'm sure someone will come up with a better perhaps more clever way to do things. Either way having an open discussion about it is best for all of us short and long term!

iBHK8

wheelz1200

legendary

Activity: 3752

Merit: 1415

I like publicly verifiable physical coin addresses. People have done good work on data bases which is helpful.

I particularly like the casascius trackers because I can see how many unpeeled coins are left. I think this will be useful going forward as far as value goes. What if cas coin addresses werent public how would we ever know 20 years from now how many are left unpeeled. You might hold the last unpeeled coin but never know it.

Mbitr

legendary

Activity: 2086

Merit: 1321

Bitcoin needs you!

Quote from: iBitcoinHongKong8 on May 05, 2019, 05:05:17 PM

Quote from: Mbitr on May 05, 2019, 04:46:21 PM

I mean it’s all to do with transparency. I’m all for it, I’m new to the collectibles world , but in my short time, I’m getting clued up quickly ! I’d much rather know when the coin was funded and from which addressees - hopefully associated with the maker.

Hi All,
I'm also new to the collectibles world and I have to say the very first thing I check for when I'm entering discussions on me purchasing a coin is to see whether or not it's been dusted or not. If it has I've always passed. I just for whatever reason don't want a dusted coin if I can avoid it. Now I understand what's public is public however going forward if there is a better or more elaborate way to manage this I think that would be best. Something like when the 2 parties enter in discussions for buying/selling they give up the firstbits, etc. Just my 2 bits fellas! Grin

iBHK8

Totally agree with you , and interestingly from looking at the poll, it seems to be that there isn’t a perfect solution as of yet . These awesome people making collectibles haven’t come up with a perfect solution, but I would say in this forum I’m happy and content what’s being produced and sold .

iBitcoinHongKong8

copper member

Activity: 441

Merit: 180

Quote from: Mbitr on May 05, 2019, 04:46:21 PM

I mean it’s all to do with transparency. I’m all for it, I’m new to the collectibles world , but in my short time, I’m getting clued up quickly ! I’d much rather know when the coin was funded and from which addressees - hopefully associated with the maker.

Hi All,
I'm also new to the collectibles world and I have to say the very first thing I check for when I'm entering discussions on me purchasing a coin is to see whether or not it's been dusted or not. If it has I've always passed. I just for whatever reason don't want a dusted coin if I can avoid it. Now I understand what's public is public however going forward if there is a better or more elaborate way to manage this I think that would be best. Something like when the 2 parties enter in discussions for buying/selling they give up the firstbits, etc. Just my 2 bits fellas! Grin

iBHK8

Kryptowerk

legendary

Activity: 2114

Merit: 1403

Disobey.

I can see the concerns regarding transparency. I am torn here.
The thing about public addresses is, that it doesn't prevent key-theft. It just would be exposed quicker. However if the coin owners check their pub-keys themselves, a key theft would be detected quite easily, too, right?

The original discussion was based on the "dusting"-problematic that all coins with public addresses can suffer from and how to possibly prevent it from happening.

ZipReg

hero member

Activity: 864

Merit: 648

I list all the public addresses in my paper wallet releases, both for complete transparency, and in case someone is interested in picking a wallet based on the public address generated. With online lookup utilities to back up the lists in case you lose your pub key card, anyone can search anyways, so I'd rather have them out there and known as opposed to potentially being faked with bunk addresses.

Mbitr

legendary

Activity: 2086

Merit: 1321

Bitcoin needs you!

I mean it’s all to do with transparency. I’m all for it, I’m new to the collectibles world , but in my short time, I’m getting clued up quickly ! I’d much rather know when the coin was funded and from which addressees - hopefully associated with the maker.

Kryptowerk

legendary

Activity: 2114

Merit: 1403

Disobey.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Load + sell a bunch of coins, keep the addresses private... steal funds.. no one can verify... great idea.

Imho the pub keys must be available to the buyer. This should be enough to verify, no?

ChiBitCTy

legendary

Activity: 2282

Merit: 3014

Edit: undecided.

krogothmanhattan

legendary

Activity: 2520

Merit: 3238

The Stone the masons rejected was the cornerstone.

No...dont expose my keys.

Kryptowerk

legendary

Activity: 2114

Merit: 1403

Disobey.

I had some discussions with Krogoth and a few other collectors about this topic.

There is only one benefit I see an open list has: It will be easily verifiable whether a whole batch of keys got compromised.
Is this worth exposing the public keys to everyone?

Let us know your opinion regarding publicly available (public)-key lists.

Topic: [POLL] Pros and Cons of open publickey lists of collectibles (Read 431 times)