PONZI COLAPS | Bitcointalksearch.org

rio3232

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Quote from: Stcgold on January 16, 2015, 06:24:11 AM

Quote from: rio3232 on January 16, 2015, 05:38:01 AM

ponzis always scam in the end.
so know how ponzi when scam, the sign when ponzis go scam.

yes sir
but alot of greedy people need PONZI
include me Cheesy

ya i know ponzis can make great profit bicoins too.
but in the end ponzis always scam. thats it Grin

Stcgold

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 10

Quote from: rio3232 on January 16, 2015, 05:38:01 AM

ponzis always scam in the end.
so know how ponzi when scam, the sign when ponzis go scam.

yes sir
but alot of greedy people need PONZI
include me Cheesy

arvindr

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

Quote from: hi2gage on January 15, 2015, 10:39:53 PM

I believe they need to make a new sub just for these Ponzi investments. It's really ruining the look of the gambling page.

Seems it happened last year in Feb as well. People initially participate in these ponzis, then after a week or 2,m they realize that most are scams and not profitable, so they give up on these , and these schemes die soon after.

rio3232

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

ponzis always scam in the end.
so know how ponzi when scam, the sign when ponzis go scam.

hi2gage

newbie

Activity: 98

Merit: 0

I believe they need to make a new sub just for these Ponzi investments. It's really ruining the look of the gambling page.

padrino

legendary

Activity: 1428

Merit: 1000

https://www.bitworks.io

OP resets game early and actually tries with another round.. Sad stuff from "honest" ponzi

padrino

legendary

Activity: 1428

Merit: 1000

https://www.bitworks.io

Quote from: Quickseller on January 12, 2015, 10:59:45 AM

Quote from: padrino on January 12, 2015, 10:51:22 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on January 12, 2015, 10:48:13 AM

Quote from: bitcoin1985 on January 12, 2015, 06:17:37 AM

Very good. Had 4PAYOUTS so far

Quote from: DanWest on January 12, 2015, 08:52:14 AM

i receive payment... reinvest lets see ...

Quote from: Ninjaku on January 12, 2015, 09:08:52 AM

i got paid and reinvested again, we'll see..

investing in a ponzi is EV negative and the operator will eventually steal your money.

These people are promoting ponzis

I am not about to defend the concept of one however as this is an obvious Ponzi no one is hiding anything so I will comment... I will say unlike some sites this one pays out as soon as new funds come in so there is no holding, and no real ability to steal funds..

the ponzi operators can send their own money into the ponzi and then withdraw other investors money to pay themselves "back"

Ahh fair enough, I didn't think through that but i suppose it's a possibility with any of these sites... If you can't trust a Ponzi operator who can you trust

Guess time will tell..

rcpb

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: Quickseller on January 12, 2015, 10:59:45 AM

Quote from: padrino on January 12, 2015, 10:51:22 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on January 12, 2015, 10:48:13 AM

Quote from: bitcoin1985 on January 12, 2015, 06:17:37 AM

Very good. Had 4PAYOUTS so far

Quote from: DanWest on January 12, 2015, 08:52:14 AM

i receive payment... reinvest lets see ...

Quote from: Ninjaku on January 12, 2015, 09:08:52 AM

i got paid and reinvested again, we'll see..

investing in a ponzi is EV negative and the operator will eventually steal your money.

These people are promoting ponzis

I am not about to defend the concept of one however as this is an obvious Ponzi no one is hiding anything so I will comment... I will say unlike some sites this one pays out as soon as new funds come in so there is no holding, and no real ability to steal funds..

the ponzi operators can send their own money into the ponzi and then withdraw other investors money to pay themselves "back"

it looks like that because he doesnt pay earlier investors, i think his site pays in random Undecided

Quickseller

copper member

Activity: 2996

Merit: 2374

Quote from: padrino on January 12, 2015, 10:51:22 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on January 12, 2015, 10:48:13 AM

Quote from: bitcoin1985 on January 12, 2015, 06:17:37 AM

Very good. Had 4PAYOUTS so far

Quote from: DanWest on January 12, 2015, 08:52:14 AM

i receive payment... reinvest lets see ...

Quote from: Ninjaku on January 12, 2015, 09:08:52 AM

i got paid and reinvested again, we'll see..

investing in a ponzi is EV negative and the operator will eventually steal your money.

These people are promoting ponzis

I am not about to defend the concept of one however as this is an obvious Ponzi no one is hiding anything so I will comment... I will say unlike some sites this one pays out as soon as new funds come in so there is no holding, and no real ability to steal funds..

the ponzi operators can send their own money into the ponzi and then withdraw other investors money to pay themselves "back"

padrino

legendary

Activity: 1428

Merit: 1000

https://www.bitworks.io

Quote from: Quickseller on January 12, 2015, 10:48:13 AM

Quote from: bitcoin1985 on January 12, 2015, 06:17:37 AM

Very good. Had 4PAYOUTS so far

Quote from: DanWest on January 12, 2015, 08:52:14 AM

i receive payment... reinvest lets see ...

Quote from: Ninjaku on January 12, 2015, 09:08:52 AM

i got paid and reinvested again, we'll see..

investing in a ponzi is EV negative and the operator will eventually steal your money.

These people are promoting ponzis

I am not about to defend the concept of one however as this is an obvious Ponzi no one is hiding anything so I will comment... I will say unlike some sites this one pays out as soon as new funds come in so there is no holding, and no real ability to steal funds..

Quickseller

copper member

Activity: 2996

Merit: 2374

Quote from: bitcoin1985 on January 12, 2015, 06:17:37 AM

Very good. Had 4PAYOUTS so far

Quote from: DanWest on January 12, 2015, 08:52:14 AM

i receive payment... reinvest lets see ...

Quote from: Ninjaku on January 12, 2015, 09:08:52 AM

i got paid and reinvested again, we'll see..

investing in a ponzi is EV negative and the operator will eventually steal your money.

These people are promoting ponzis

ACMP

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Quote from: dodgecharger on January 12, 2015, 10:33:25 AM

Quote from: honestponzi on January 12, 2015, 10:12:32 AM

Come on guys we need more new investors. Wink

you can still save your website, return the payment of those affected by the problems of queue payout

agree to this.. after sending us back our coins fix first the queue so the 1st will recieve 1st and so on

padrino

legendary

Activity: 1428

Merit: 1000

https://www.bitworks.io

Perhaps seed it some to get it moving again?

dodgecharger

hero member

Activity: 1005

Merit: 500

Quote from: honestponzi on January 12, 2015, 10:12:32 AM

Come on guys we need more new investors. Wink

you can still save your website, return the payment of those affected by the problems of queue payout

rcpb

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

waiting for new investors Wink

honestponzi

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

123

DanWest

newbie

Activity: 54

Merit: 0

fact admin lose control... lol

rcpb

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: honestponzi on January 12, 2015, 09:16:33 AM

Quote from: rcpb on January 12, 2015, 09:04:43 AM

Quote from: honestponzi on January 12, 2015, 08:37:04 AM

Next payout after 0.5085 BTC

https://blockchain.info/address/16tH5jJRt2tN1fWexcFMHtRiPqXgY7CzoM

We have a new top1 leader
1PDqZmfJM5FkS1wTovSTH6NRdZJvSXbDtv

Please take a breath, everybody will receive their payouts.
Just remember, this is ponzi so :

Send Bitcoin(BTC) and get 150% back when the next person sends

why you dont pay when funds is enough to pay atleast the next one to recieve and not wait for more funds.. it will just looks like you are waiting for big transaction and runaway with the money

Because the Ponzi dont work like that.
If i pay only the small payouts the big investors will receive nothing.

0.37 BTC before next payout

im not saying pay only the small amount, my point is, first to send the coins should recieve first and by that, if the next one to recieve is waiting for his 0.05 or whatever, you should pay him when the balance of your addy is 0.075 and not wait until .2 or something

llanillo

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Seems legit.... just like crypto double my advice do not invest there please.. only money that you are allowed to lose

honestponzi

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

123

Credde

full member

Activity: 139

Merit: 100

Hmm invested 0.021 BTC at 10:42 one of the earlier ones. Haven't received my payout...

https://blockchain.info/tx/70c1dcf01fc7b96c161c239b1177e954506441e811336a58506cc27bfaaeeb32

DanWest

newbie

Activity: 54

Merit: 0

time to payout...

Ninjaku

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

i got paid and reinvested again, we'll see..

rcpb

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: honestponzi on January 12, 2015, 08:37:04 AM

Next payout after 0.5085 BTC

https://blockchain.info/address/16tH5jJRt2tN1fWexcFMHtRiPqXgY7CzoM

We have a new top1 leader
1PDqZmfJM5FkS1wTovSTH6NRdZJvSXbDtv

Please take a breath, everybody will receive their payouts.
Just remember, this is ponzi so :

Send Bitcoin(BTC) and get 150% back when the next person sends

why you dont pay when funds is enough to pay atleast the next one to recieve and not wait for more funds.. it will just looks like you are waiting for big transaction and runaway with the money

xGary

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

Quote from: DanWest on January 12, 2015, 08:52:14 AM

i receive payment... reinvest lets see ...

I also invested again, let's see how it goes.

dodgecharger

hero member

Activity: 1005

Merit: 500

Quote from: dodgecharger on January 12, 2015, 08:50:46 AM

Quote from: dodgecharger on January 12, 2015, 08:44:21 AM

Quote from: honestponzi on January 12, 2015, 08:37:04 AM

Next payout after 0.5085 BTC

https://blockchain.info/address/16tH5jJRt2tN1fWexcFMHtRiPqXgY7CzoM

We have a new top1 leader
1PDqZmfJM5FkS1wTovSTH6NRdZJvSXbDtv

Please take a breath, everybody will receive their payouts.
Just remember, this is ponzi so :

Send Bitcoin(BTC) and get 150% back when the next person sends

you are not respecting the queue Angry

do not ignore guy Angry

if payments are with the problem do manually

DanWest

newbie

Activity: 54

Merit: 0

i receive payment... reinvest lets see ...

dodgecharger

hero member

Activity: 1005

Merit: 500

Quote from: dodgecharger on January 12, 2015, 08:44:21 AM

Quote from: honestponzi on January 12, 2015, 08:37:04 AM

Next payout after 0.5085 BTC

https://blockchain.info/address/16tH5jJRt2tN1fWexcFMHtRiPqXgY7CzoM

We have a new top1 leader
1PDqZmfJM5FkS1wTovSTH6NRdZJvSXbDtv

Please take a breath, everybody will receive their payouts.
Just remember, this is ponzi so :

Send Bitcoin(BTC) and get 150% back when the next person sends

you are not respecting the queue Angry

honestponzi

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

123 ponzi

dodgecharger

hero member

Activity: 1005

Merit: 500

Quote from: honestponzi on January 12, 2015, 08:37:04 AM

Next payout after 0.5085 BTC

https://blockchain.info/address/16tH5jJRt2tN1fWexcFMHtRiPqXgY7CzoM

We have a new top1 leader
1PDqZmfJM5FkS1wTovSTH6NRdZJvSXbDtv

Please take a breath, everybody will receive their payouts.
Just remember, this is ponzi so :

Send Bitcoin(BTC) and get 150% back when the next person sends

you are not respecting the queue Angry

cypher21

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 503

Quote from: rcpb on January 12, 2015, 08:39:44 AM

is the payout random? i dont see any pattern on your payment when i look at the blockchain..

yeah i think so. i missed 2 small payouts and he pays all guys above me

padrino

legendary

Activity: 1428

Merit: 1000

https://www.bitworks.io

Quote from: rcpb on January 12, 2015, 08:39:44 AM

is the payout random? i dont see any pattern on your payment when i look at the blockchain..

Looked myself, looks like the payouts are in the right order, but when there is enough funds to make a couple they don't get posted to the blockchain in exactly the right order, seems everyone is getting paid when they should though...

Suppose there could be an occasional missing TX like other sites have issues with, suspect OP will address as it happens.

ACMP

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

https://blockchain.info/tx/1427a83c4b11db591ff0138b543ede0244b74ddf42d76298971a725493c54600

somethings fishy around here, the sending address didnt recieve any payment from the OP even the sender is in the first 10 senders of this ponzi

rcpb

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

is the payout random? i dont see any pattern on your payment when i look at the blockchain..

honestponzi

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

123

dodgecharger

hero member

Activity: 1005

Merit: 500

Quote from: dodgecharger on January 12, 2015, 08:25:53 AM

Quote from: honestponzi on January 12, 2015, 08:23:12 AM

Everybody will receive their payouts. Just wait for enought BTC in the bank.
Theres seems to be a problem with our system, all payouts except 2 are paid.

Wink

my payout was in front and was not paid Angry

check your Pm Angry

cypher21

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 503

im also miss 2 payments Angry

You pay all guys above me. And they are only 2 small investments

brizio71

sr. member

Activity: 456

Merit: 250

Blockchain Just Entered The Real World

I have receive my last payment but not my first one that is very small I have send 0,0012 BTC,
my question is:

Why you don't make sa script that automatically pay the first on line as soon you have the BTC ?

This happen correctly on WeeklyPonzi !

This can help the people to make investment on your ponzi !!!

dodgecharger

hero member

Activity: 1005

Merit: 500

Quote from: honestponzi on January 12, 2015, 08:23:12 AM

Everybody will receive their payouts. Just wait for enought BTC in the bank.
Theres seems to be a problem with our system, all payouts except 2 are paid.

Wink

my payout was in front and was not paid Angry

honestponzi

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

123

xGary

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

I just got paid what I invested two hours ago.
Thanks!

http://i.gyazo.com/1b173d546604bd1946d93178d855db46.png

cypher21

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 503

he is paying the last guys out...but not me...BIG System!!!!

brizio71

sr. member

Activity: 456

Merit: 250

Blockchain Just Entered The Real World

The payment it seems restarted, but why you don't following the order payment list ?

brizio71

sr. member

Activity: 456

Merit: 250

Blockchain Just Entered The Real World

I don't think this is a scam but he is not well organized, and he doesn't show the list of investor and the order of payment as WeeklyPonzi do on the web page.

Let him improve the site !

ACMP

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

you should explain how do your commision works and where it goes.. we are confused about it.. pls explain so we can all know Wink

honestponzi

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

DanWest

newbie

Activity: 54

Merit: 0

try these other address 166dFQwHRG2VjYHXFiPE9mqZr88zCqSBwN its automatic after 3 confirmations

cypher21

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 503

Quote from: ACMP on January 12, 2015, 07:33:23 AM

Quote from: Ninjaku on January 12, 2015, 07:31:03 AM

so is this one working or what? Huh

??

this is working at first.. maybe the reason why its not paying now is because his commision is not going to another address and only staying on the same address thats why still waiting for more funds to cover the next batch of payouts

but who knows...his site dont work

DanWest

newbie

Activity: 54

Merit: 0

laughs... OP is waiting for a 100BTC budget to start paying out... Be patient!!

ACMP

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Quote from: Ninjaku on January 12, 2015, 07:31:03 AM

so is this one working or what? Huh

??

this is working at first.. maybe the reason why its not paying now is because his commision is not going to another address and only staying on the same address thats why still waiting for more funds to cover the next batch of payouts

Ninjaku

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

so is this one working or what? Huh

??

rcpb

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: ACMP on January 12, 2015, 07:21:47 AM

0.09047498 BTC balance as of now.. it should cover the payment for the next 5 people.. Angry

dont tell us you are running with those 0.09?

)

too sad he run with 0.09.. he could profit much more if he runs this good

ACMP

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

0.09047498 BTC balance as of now.. it should cover the payment for the next 5 people.. Angry

dont tell us you are running with those 0.09?

)

cypher21

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 503

Quote from: honestponzi on January 12, 2015, 07:13:26 AM

Yes, the top10 investors will receive their bonuses at 00.01 GMT+2

Quote from: DanWest on January 12, 2015, 07:05:28 AM

no pay out...cheap scam

Please read how the ponzi scheme works, if the bank dont have enought funds - no payouts.
you will receive your BTC, dont worry about

OUR NEXT INVESTOR is 14jghnvbZgL2v7inF7Memca3m2ZLmJDNAU
And currently our top1 leader

nobody know who is gonna paid already or is the next. your site dont work

honestponzi

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

rcpb

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

and 3rd in the line is .005 that will recieve .0075 and still not recieving coins from them

cypher21

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 503

Quote from: honestponzi on January 12, 2015, 07:04:01 AM

Final Balance 0.06047498 BTC

Call me scammer or what ever you want. I will proove i'm not.
After the bank have enought funds all payments will be send.

ok we will see. who is the next guy gets payout?

DanWest

newbie

Activity: 54

Merit: 0

Quote from: ACMP on January 12, 2015, 07:06:23 AM

Quote from: honestponzi on January 12, 2015, 07:04:01 AM

Final Balance 0.06047498 BTC

Call me scammer or what ever you want. I will proove i'm not.
After the bank have enought funds all payments will be send.

got it , .06 supposed to pay the 2 next in line with .015(0.01) and .03(0.2) but what is going on the site still not sending payments for them?

you should push it for it will work as it should be

amateur scam

ACMP

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Quote from: honestponzi on January 12, 2015, 07:04:01 AM

Final Balance 0.06047498 BTC

Call me scammer or what ever you want. I will proove i'm not.
After the bank have enought funds all payments will be send.

http://static.wixstatic.com/media/92ae40_93e177423fea49178fb92aff979138fc.jpg_srz_300_300_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz]http://static.wixstatic.com/media/92ae40_93e177423fea49178fb92aff979138fc.jpg_srz_300_300_75_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz

got it , .06 supposed to pay the 2 next in line with .015(0.01) and .03(0.2) but what is going on the site still not sending payments for them?

you should push it for it will work as it should be

dodgecharger

hero member

Activity: 1005

Merit: 500

Quote from: dodgecharger on January 12, 2015, 06:26:28 AM

The top 10 investors premium applies daily Huh

DanWest

newbie

Activity: 54

Merit: 0

no pay out...cheap scam

honestponzi

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

bitcoin1985

full member

Activity: 164

Merit: 100

I missed my payout https://blockchain.info/tx/a64a158d3b324e6cbc03d0b4ac501bc84db4de60f7277b720dfd6b7e4dd56e76

xGary

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

I sent 5€ in, will wait and leave an edit later.

rcpb

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

there is still too many bugs on your site, many people dont get their coins back even the transactions after them already get paid

ACMP

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: ACMP on January 12, 2015, 06:31:14 AM

i can see transactions less than 0.01 in the blockchain but i dont see it in the site, are they still getting paid?

No. Below minimum count AS donation.

miniimum is 0.001 right? who told you below 0.01 means below 0.001? Tongue

beware as of now there is no outgoing transaction from their address

brizio71

sr. member

Activity: 456

Merit: 250

Blockchain Just Entered The Real World

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: brizio71 on January 12, 2015, 06:39:44 AM

Please answer my PM

No answering of PM.
All FAQ are in site.

Keep good work guys.

Really

You don't answer PM ....bad start !!!

...then on your FAQ you write:

"For more information or any questions please PM me or use the contact form on our site."

In this case I write here so you can answer to all too

It works like the other ponzi ?

I mean the first on the line will be payout as the found are available ?

I have send the fist time 0,0012BTC and I didn't get payout

then I have sent a second time 0,09865... and I get this payout and the

third time i have sent you 0,1472 BTC that is not yet paid.

Please fix the web site in order to see the list of people who are send you BTC and the payout

Thanks

Fabrizio

honestponzi

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

rcpb

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

the address is not paying as of now, hope it pays when next block comes

dodgecharger

hero member

Activity: 1005

Merit: 500

it is configured correctly Huh

seems not to be respecting queue
my sends
https://blockchain.info/tx/8fd2c385e8c7563f3875cdd88a63599d866736799ee005e6bbafd7ea2c069353

honestponzi

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

WeeklyPonziV3

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

FAQ STOLEN from WeeklyPonzi.
Graphics STOLEN from WeeklyPonzi.

.webs.com hosting (lololol)
Not automatic payments

Scam waiting to happen.

brizio71

sr. member

Activity: 456

Merit: 250

Blockchain Just Entered The Real World

Please answer my PM

honestponzi

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

ACMP

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

i can see transactions less than 0.01 in the blockchain but i dont see it in the site, are they still getting paid?

rcpb

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: ACMP on January 12, 2015, 06:24:04 AM

can anyone above jr member prove this site is paying?

im still a newbie but i can say the site is paying automatically.. i recieved my payment with 50% profit xD

dodgecharger

hero member

Activity: 1005

Merit: 500

The top 10 investors premium applies daily Huh

FundsMoney

sr. member

Activity: 363

Merit: 250

BTC will change the world

I'm in no way related to this website. It's paying as far as I'm aware. Games going live right now.
However, don't take my words for it. This is a gamble, invest responsibly.

brizio71

sr. member

Activity: 456

Merit: 250

Blockchain Just Entered The Real World

It works I get a payout

ACMP

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

can anyone above jr member prove this site is paying?

FundsMoney

sr. member

Activity: 363

Merit: 250

BTC will change the world

Had payouts for all my deposits, except this one https://blockchain.info/tx/c0a9640e0166118b9bbebc5532ab460b9a5db9f4c85dc0642fab86074139298a

What's wrong ??

EDIT: received 0.045 in the end

I ll keep playin'

honestponzi

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

bitcoin1985

full member

Activity: 164

Merit: 100

Very good. Had 4PAYOUTS so far

rcpb

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: Surger on January 12, 2015, 06:10:33 AM

This is a ponzi's year

Everyday we learn new ponzi systems
its bad for risk, its good for fun

its for people who got big amount of coins and not for small timers who are looking for profits xD

Surger

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

This is a ponzi's year

Everyday we learn new ponzi systems
its bad for risk, its good for fun

dodgecharger

hero member

Activity: 1005

Merit: 500

when it ends this round Huh

WeeklyPonziV3

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Scam.

.wix.com

Not automatic. Kids aren't even trying these days..

dodgecharger

hero member

Activity: 1005

Merit: 500

you must have 24 hours from that announcement

bitcoin1985

full member

Activity: 164

Merit: 100

And no payout anymore?

viriat0

hero member

Activity: 1008

Merit: 501

Faucet + Hardwork = little money Huh

honestponzi

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Fuchoor

newbie

Activity: 4

Merit: 0

Why no payout yet?

Looks scammy.

melwinder

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 250

What is with all of these "honest" ponzi games??? Most of the "Honest" ponzi games within literally the last 2 1/2 days has turned out to be what...? Not honest...

honestponzi

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

PONZI

Topic: PONZI COLAPS (Read 2789 times)