Topic: Possibility of bitcoin adoption by countries when world fin. giants does. (Read 339 times)

I feel a basic Bitcoin misunderstanding. My friend, loans, interests, and typical financial structures are old-fashioned. The Bitcoin's volatility? A feature, not a bug. It reflects human society's chaos and changing values.

Your scenario is based on the known world, not the emerging one. When financial heavyweights use Bitcoin, valuations will shift. The loan dynamics need a revamp, but who would stick to your outdated model?

There are many Bitcoin promotion methods. But relegating it to reserve status? Similar to employing a spacecraft for city commutes. Widen your view. Consider the immense ocean of possibilities. Maybe try to comprehend a topic before condemning it.

They will not do this if Bitcoin price has yet been very stable but you know when Bitcoin price is very stable, it will be less attractive as an investment asset. Invest into an asset which is stable makes no sense and investors will look for better options.

Like recent years they found that Bitcoin is outperforming gold and are more favorite to invest in Bitcoin than in gold.
ROI chart

They will not put their national reserves in big risky condition by adding Bitcoin into their reserves and accept it as loan collateral is more risky.

What if the reverse of your opinion becomes the reality and it happens that they agree to use bitcoin as a reserve for savings and they make loan inclusive. Would it not be good for all parties involved?  We know IMF and world bank has a strong affiliation with the US government and through them and member states are financed but I am yet to understand what you mean by this

Considering bitcoin as a means of reserve would be very interesting. Instead of moving fiat about and spending resources to fly cash about as the case maybe, it will be easier for them to look into using bitcoin as a means of reserve for nations which will in other words reduce expenses moving cash about all in the name of transporting it to their vault in their various nations.

With respect to btc value as at time of loaning, the volume at  which the loan was gotten should be returned as per agreement between both parties because I believe there is always a room for discussion and  negotiation when it comes to obtaining a loan. There should be a benchmark for which the loan should be given in bitcoin and that bench mark should be the binding agreement holding the loan that was taken.

This could really be a good idea, but in the aspect of those financial bodies giving out monetary aid using Bitcoin to other countries, I don't see that as a wise decision based on Bitcoin's nature. Don't forget that the loan that this huge financial body gives out to countries always comes with interest, and when given out a loan on BTC, will you suggest that it should be calculated by the value of BTC as of that time or figure of BTC, because whatever means that's being used, there's going to be some kind of either overvaluation or value reduction? Considering how long countries loans usually take before the repayment period
 
Let's say, for instance, they loan out 100 BTC at the price of $30,000 per 1 BTC, which will be worth about $3,000,000 there plus interest rate, and the loan duration can be about 3 years, which is enough time for Bitcoin to either double in price or go down sideways in price. Whichever it is, it will happen that either part will be at an advantage and the other at a disadvantage, which I don't see as a good option for business.
 
There are better ways that those huge financial bodies can use to promote Bitcoin and increase its adoption aside from the loan part; maybe they can also consider it a means of reserve.

That's a good if a country can start accepting Bitcoin as a means of payment and also taken loan, it going to motivate other countries as well, currently now countries are facing economy challenge's when it comes for financial sectors, which Bitcoin can handle perfectly, secondly Bitcoin operation is not the same as Fiat money, which any mistake made in Bitcoin during payment transaction to another wallet is gone. So before going under going Bitcoin usage, has to deal with education by learning and how it works, and that is reason why most politicians or government official are still lazy to and upgrade they knowledge, by learning how Bitcoin works and use, but the ignorance made them not to accept Bitcoin, but I believe with time, when younger president enter seat, policy's we changed and Bitcoin will be accepted.

The World Bank and the International Monetary Fund will never adopt Bitcoin(or any other cryptocurrency). Period!
I can see the IMF and the World Bank adopting CBDCs, but Bitcoin will never be even close to getting adopted by such global financial organizations. IMF and the World Bank are puppets of the USA and the US financial oligarchy. I think that those organizations are more or less useless. They don't help the underdeveloped countries in any way(giving loans isn't real help). Those organizations are designed to keep the underdeveloped countries dependent from the USA.

Nothing is impossible but for IMF to accept bitcoin for loans might take a very long time because bitcoin is still being criticised by some big nations. This will create a very big impact on bitcoin adoption by individuals and institutes if it is being implemented. But I see little chance of it happening because of the saga that is going on between US and Binance and Kucoin which is still a threat to bitcoin massive adoption presently. If the government of countries are ignorant to promote bitcoin then let's wait and let the adoption be done gradually because as time passes more people will get involved into the bitcoin adoption. Slow and steady wins the race.

From the looks of it and the current Bitcoin acceptance, there are already lots of centralized company that is integrating Bitcoin in their financial options.  One of which are the casinos, micropayment apps,  exchanges and even several merchants are accepting Bitcoin.  These are centralized entities and they integrate Bitcoin to their company.  I do not know if there is a centralized state of Bitcoin, but I am sure that Bitcoin is always been in a decentralized state. 


There is no need for these institutions to adopt Bitcoin in their system, all Bitcoin need is for these institutions to recognize Bitcoin as it is.

I do not think it is a mistake to think that adoption is about governments passing laws, about governments financing projects or making loans to each other with bitcoin, but it is not the whole of that process that has as its main objective the individual.

Then people is the true adoption and the most important one, btw they does not need the aforementioned and in fact occurs, perhaps to a greater degree than you imagine.

You think countries will adopt Bitcoin 100% it's not possible because at the moment only a figment percentage of the global population know about Bitcoin and what it truly stands for,  and for the fact that Bitcoin is secured against third-party involvement or control makes is uninteresting to countries because,  Bitcoin is not like their local currencies that they can print unlimited number.

Bitcoin have a 21 million total supply which is some thing that stand out against possible inflammatory measure that makes Bitcoin anti inflation,  unless for some few countries like El Salvador who have taken the bold step by differing all IMF warning and adopting Bitcoin.

Hmm, Was totally unaware of how the member countries work haha, IMF adopting bitcoins seems like one of the biggest jokes to me for this month because I can recall in memory that IMF was putting pressure on the financial policies of those countries who were under debt of IMF to strongly Ban crypto market activities. Buddy, it's not about the member countries who are going to be affected by Bitcoin it will be the IMF haha because when BTC will be the legal tender there will be no need for the IMF for further loans the countries can directly introduce and raise funds through the high APY surety bonds even they can use their BTC reserves for the loans that will be more easy a greater approach for them to raise as much funding as they can.

Bitcoiners say that Bitcoin is a panacea for all financial problems and that fiat currency will soon collapse, surely it would make sense to ditch the IMF and go 100% on Bitcoin? It's not like anything can go wrong with this plan.


IMF can't make Bitcoin a legal tender, only national legislators can do that. IMF can only recommend something and put conditions on their loans.

The government knows how to get what they want that is why I am not always bothered about taxing especially those of us that are Bitcoin investors. There are some centralized firms that support crypto especially those ones that are popular with higher liquidity. There are some countries that has laws that support the use of cryptocurrency. The adoption of Bitcoin will still continue with time even though there are some countries that will never want to room for cryptocurrency support and adoption. I hope to see continuous adoption as more exchanges are coming into play.

Your idea is clear.

You are confusing bitcoin for settlements between countries and bitcoin for settlements between ordinary residents of these countries. If credits or other financial assistance can be accepted or given by countries that prohibit itcoin at home, then the free use of bitcoin within their country, after the adoption of the ban on bitcoin, they will no longer allow. The strict rules regarding bitcoin will not change.

The likelihood of mass adoption of bitcoin in countries that have a law banning it as a legal medium of exchange (you probably meant means of payment) is about zero. I admit that the governments of such countries will use bitcoin to interact with other countries, but this will not be permissible for their ordinary citizens.

International monetary fund is not a money printing bank like central banks of nations and their balance and reserves comes from the contribution and payment of commitments from members countries and this reserve is what are used to loan member nations in time of financial trouble in the form of bailout,  to bring Bitcoin to the reality is going to be something that will meet a lot of criticism from members countries even though if IMF adopts Bitcoin as an organization,  those member countries who are against bitcoin adoption and legalization will do everything possible to only allow fiat paper money since that is what they can print freely and spend to pay membership dues.

So one of the underlying deficits of this move is the inability of the member's countries to manipulate and print Bitcoin as they do with the fiat currency so in the long run,  this idea will still mean a dead end,  I prefer Bitcoin being an alternative currency to the citizens instead of governmental organizations.

There is one in million chance of centralised entities accepting crypto in its decentralised state. I don't think institutions like IMF or US government will ever accept decentralised bitcoin since that is something not under there control. My country (Pakistan) recently got a bail out package from IMF and it was approved after strict terms and conditions, one condition was to increase tax net. With decentralised Bitcoin its difficult for government to gather tax, so the possibility of adoption goes down.

In the world, there are approximately 8 million dollar millionaires, each of whom holds 1 million dollars or more in cash or in a bank account.

You must understand that all the liquidations of your positions, all the losses in the cryptocurrency market, are a necessary payment to become a plebeian. Then you must work diligently to acquire 2.625 Bitcoins in the market - whatever it may cost you. When an army of approximately 8 million plebeians is gathered, you will always start winning. By uniting in an army and following a unified strategy and common purpose, education, work experience, skills, religion, personal qualities, etc., won't matter for plebeians. Only in this way can you defeat the elite with higher IQs than yours, better education, more work experience, better connections, more capital than you have... And you have no other choice, either join the plebeian army or you and all your future generations will be slaves... even if you change your names and surnames to the right ones, you will never get into Yale, MIT, Berkeley, or Stanford, believe me. Our army of approximately 8 million plebeians will be invincible. Because nothing can kill what is already dead.

Op, you're right in your observation about the IMF pressure when a country wants to adopt Bitcoin, so if by some luck such organizations changed their position and became more open to Bitcoin not just as an investment, but also as a currency, it would have a big impact on adoption because that would greenlight it. It doesn't mean we'd see a sudden spike in adoption, but it could change the world over time.
But, like many others here, I'm doubtful that such organizations will embrace Bitcoin because it's not and can never be under their control.

When a country have got reason or purpose, the government of the respective country will think of the adoption. The reality is different and very few countries have understood the meed and as a result the those countries stand positive on bitcoin adoption and acceptance. In recent years El Salvador have took the much bolder decision amidst opposition from different parts of the world. Particularly the super power of the world thought of having them under control and things didn't work as expected.

The possibility will always be a 50-50, and increasing depending if Bitcoin is performing well with the company that integrated it.  The country will always take notice of the company that takes advantage and adopts Bitcoin by integrating it to their system.  If these companies perform well in the long run, a country may possibly lean to Bitcoin adoption of their country.  Those who banned it may probably consider reverting their action and stay neutral while continue observing the development of Bitcoin adoption.  Of course, if the company's Bitcoin integration result is negative, countries will then have a second thought of utilizing Bitcoin since the pioneer companies does not bode well resulting in bankruptcy and failure.

From what I could understand here is that  OP is looking at the situation whereby the adoption of Bitcoin by these world financial giants as mentioned can pave way for the fast and speedy adoption of Bitcoin by nations who go to them for financial assistance. Since they have powerful influence and strong monetary policies it could be of help to make them adopt it smoothly without  any challenges.

I also was looking at your points though but do you not think these financial giants adopting Bitcoin alone will cause a fast increase in Bitcoin value which would drive massive adoption of Bitcoin in various nations. Looking at the loan aspect, Bitcoin can be loaned based on its volume and percentage interest could as well be in Bitcoin volume calculations as well. If possible,  the calculations should be in two ways; the monetary value and volume. This I think can be considered when giving out loan to nations interested in Bitcoin as loan.

OP acceptance or consideration by global financial organizations could positively influence those countries' attitudes towards Bitcoin.
But the large-scale adoption of Bitcoin depends on many factors, including regulation, financial education and public perception.  While endorsements from global financial organizations could have an impact, the adoption process will be complex and time consuming.

And we can see that the IMF has putting pressures on El Salvador


https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/imf-says-el-salvadors-bitcoin-risks-have-not-materialized-should-be-addressed-2023-02-11/

And with that statement, I don't think that IMF will simply adopt and embrace bitcoin per se and makes it as legal means of exchange. Sorry to burst the bubble for the OP. Just think of bitcoin's volatility as one major drawback why countries are not willing to take the risk.

We already have El Salvador as a model of what happens when the government tries to push for Bitcoin adoption. Adoption is not increasing as much as bitcoiners have hoped, because legal concerns are only one of the many factors that slow down adoption. Other factors are risks of loss, high fees, price volatility. Combine it with the fact that average people have no problems with banks and payment networks, and it's not surprise that Bitcoin is rarely used as a currency even after 14 years.

OP, I do strongly agree with that point of view when this fin. giants will support Bitcoin openly for the greatest investment opportunity mass adoption will get started by retailers and private Businesses and on the government level some adoption is also possible because these major giants most of the time hold a strong political grip on the country and it's a fact. So by using their own political hold, they can greatly introduce Bitcoin into government policies.

The elite class can do anything whatever they want. So expect something big on the way at least this is the hope in current market.

When world giant economy countries adopts bitcoin as a legal tender, it will definitely shake the ground and influence other countries to follow suit of same, yet we have some countries brave enough to stand by it's decisions notwithstanding take this bold step in adopting bitcoin as a legal tender not considering others take, if a country truly needs a change, they can try out a new system of running their economy in a decentralized way as with bitcoin and we don't have to wait for other countries decisions before taking ours.

They can raise policies on it or regulate it but they won't be able to control it entirely. That's another what if. If likely Bitcoin reach the market cap of gold I think they would ever set foot on it, for now I think these organizations aren't likely interested considering it's volatile nature and it's not inclined to their vision.

This is correctly. The government is the number enemy that keeps the majority away from Bitcoin by means of scaring them using the volatility or providing alternative such as their CBDC. It’s very hard to attain mass adoption if the government which is the one being follow by the majority is the one against the idea of decentralization.

El Salvador is the living proof that mass adoption can only be attain if the government itself is the one believing on Bitcoin.

Massive adoption will start in the government — accept it as legal tender. It will be hundred percent sure financial institutions will follow. But that is only a dream for now, too many violations of different exchanges are facing right now, especially the big ones which they need to address and solve before this massive adoption happens.

I doubt the world bank or global financial institution will implement a bitcoin system, this is clear because bitcoin is decentralized so it cannot control and cannot print new bitcoins like fiat. I think the only way for bitcoin to be implemented and adopted by all countries is when everyone already believes and owns bitcoin, then this situation will force countries to recognize bitcoin and legalize it.

I think countries have been trying to ban bitcoin for a long time, but they failed. Even though many countries have banned bitcoins, it turns out that there are still citizens who own bitcoins. This happens because bitcoin can be accessed anywhere, even though the network is blocked, there are still VPNs that can help access bitcoin-related services.

So I think it's just a matter of time until bitcoin is recognized and can become an alternative world currency. There's no rush to get there, but bitcoin is definitely on its way

Using bitcoin for loans,I don't think this is a better way to promote bitcoin adoption. The volatile nature of bitcoin makes it very risky for it to be used as loans. You should also put into consideration that bitcoin is limited in supply and it is not controlled by the government, which will make it impossible for any country government to think of such.

Imagine that Country A borrowed a loan of 30BTC now that the price is 29k+ and to pay back in two year time with an interest of 5%. This is a suicide mission because it will be a cheat on the borrower or the lender. No need of the loan stuff, if only the big countries i.e the second world countries all legalise cryptocurrency then there will be a massive adoption of bitcoin because,almost all the third world countries depends on the second world countries to survive. So the third world countries will only copy from the footstep of the country that supports them financially.

The possibility of these world financial organizations like you mentioned taking this into practice is low because they consider so many factors before they can do such and the way Bitcoin is in terms of relationship with fiat it's very far and they'd not easily want to modify already slated guidelines for what they call money. Bitcoin goes against fiat in quite a number of ways and this is a red flag to them so would make such possiblity hard to come to pass

Remember Bitcoin is scarce and it cannot be owned by just one body or person so about going to them as what? They won't become lords of Bitcoin suddenly obviously people would have more of Bitcoin than them in fact Scarcity and Decentralization of Bitcoin makes it virtually impossible for them to begin a lordship control of Bitcoin to the point they'd be giving out loans and like you know market of Bitcoin can be very volatile another factor why this can't work!

I like your line of thought and the argument that you have put forth. However, it is only in a Utopian society that we would ever have a time where international financial organizations who again to Bitcoin adoption thereby making laws that allows it to be legal. I don't feel completely comfortable with the idea of Bitcoin loans. It is a highly volatile and speculative asset at the moment and it is more risky taking out a Bitcoin loan not to talk of offering Bitcoin loans to countries as financial aids. This would mostly likely not happen. I like for us to shif our focus from depending or relying on the World Bank or IMF for anything positive about Bitcoin. We the Bitcoin enthusiasts have made it so far without them and we will keep progress without them too.

So you're only talk about Bitcoin as a loan or financial aid for other nations? there's nothing different with fiat, if they can use fiat why they need to use Bitcoin?

The good thing about Bitcoin over fiat is when it used as a loan or financial aid to needy people from other nation, but it's between person with organization or person, not organization with organization.

Usually when you're need to send money to other bank, you need to pay quite high fee and slow, similar like sending money to charity organization where they're making money from it.

But IMF can't print the Bitcoin as they do with fiat so they need to acquire it from the market first before giving it as a loan which is never going to happen in my opinion. So if bitcoin evolves to that stage where IMF has to give at loan to countries instead of fiat then there is no place for the existence of them itself, since bitcoin itself can act as a bank and they already knew it.

Now about the questions you asked if the world banks provide Bitcoin as loan then the country banned bitcoin completely will be revoked?

Maybe yes or Maybe no, it depends on who makes the policies because the government can stand on its own without any flexibility to the changes that or happening or they can be open to adapt and change their stand.

What is the possibility of  massive adoption of bitcoin in the world i.e countries that has law prohibiting bitcoin as a legal means of exchange in their various nations if World Bank, International Monetary Fund, and other World Financial Organisations decides to take in or consider Bitcoin as a legal means of exchange and making loan option for nation to accept bitcoin from them as a loan and source of exchange or legal tender in their various nations. I had to look at this because since these world financial bodies are giants in the finance industry and nations go to them to seek financial aid which happens that they already adopted bitcoin as a means of legal tender and deemed it fit to be considered as digital money which it already is. When nations go to them for financial aid and they tell them that they can give them bitcoin as loan, this would make the nations reconsider their stand in adopting bitcoin as a means of exchange for goods and services. As financial bodies they are, they have strong influence since they set out international monetary policies which these nations look up to for adoption and  implementation in their various nations.

As a world financial organization they are, they can make it more attractive for other nations in the sense that they would raise policies that can be able to accommodate other nations that are yet to implement and adopt bitcoin in their various countries so as to make them reconsider their stringent rules against bitcoin existence in their countries.

I was just being curious about this if it would attract a massive turn up for bitcoin adoption in those nations that have passed law  against the existence of bitcoin in their countries since the world financial bodies are possibly bitcoin friendly organisations and would want them to take bitcoin as loan option.

I thought of sharing this here to  further broaden my understanding and also to know the opinion of other members too but if you feel it is not inline with the stand of this thread or the platform in general, you can call my attention so as to make the necessary corrections or take the necessary steps to effect the observed corrections. I also welcome constructive criticism and observations as I am open to learning to know more.