Topic: Possible restrictions on newbie accounts. (Read 484 times)

If we want to face the truth, we can read the forum without registering at all. If you refuse signature campaigns, the whole shitposting will simply disappear as it is signature campaigns that are a sort of shitposting aggregator.

If you conducted several investigations of forum abuse, you would realize that it is unrealistic to prove the abuse of the merit system if users do not participate in signature and bounty campaigns. And most abuses can only be proven because of their stupidity.

I understand the main purpose of this thread - I've seen way too many Newbie accounts creating threads and never coming back. It looks to me like they're creating new threads using alts whenever their main (or alternative) accounts are out of threads to reply to. But I don't think there is much to be done about it.

First of all, Newbie jails shouldn't be a thing - I disagree with that 100%. Newbies being jailed inside a single board strictly for Newbies will lead to a board full of crap where everyone will shitpost and burstpost until they're free on the forum.

If a member wants to shitpost and only boost their account's rank in order to become sig campaign-eligible, they will provide high quality posts until they'll be eligible for campaigns after which their accounts will turn into shitposters. We can take the strictest measures out there - if that's my intention, I'm going to be willing to find any way to get through the ranks until I'll reach my goal.


Very wrong way of seeing this forum. Yes, there could be from time to time a subconscious "oh, I must do this to get $" thought but let's face reality. This forum isn't a job and whenever someone tries to go only for the money, it turns pretty bad for the respective member. It's quite easy to differentiate a member who works hard on the forum from a member who is here just to shitpost for the BTC they can earn.

The number of newcomers to the forum is getting smaller every day. Introducing new restrictions in the fight against users abusing the rules of the forum and normal human behavior in order to earn money, we will infringe the rights of real beginners.

In my opinion, it is very unreasonable to think that if we restrict the newcomers to two sections, we will be able to achieve some success in the fight against abuse. Each of us knows that there are still abuses of the merit system that cannot be proven and therefore cannot be influenced.

This has been discussed many times before, but also tackling it from a campaign manager point of view also. Possibly, being a little more strict, and banning campaigns if they prove the be problematic. I believe theymos is overwhelmingly against removing signature campaigns all together, but I wouldn't be surprised if it continues the way it is he will eventually lose his patience. This is just speculation on my end, but I imagine a few things will be reintroduced to try, and prevent removing it altogether, especially the way that altcoin related signature campaigns are operating right now.

I will agree on this one and I think this is the most suitable way to filter legit newbies that who wants to learn in the crypto world. But limiting to "beginners and help" and "off topic" only could restrain from gaining additional knowledge, maybe consider some sections that is good that cannot be abused. I was kinda disgusted in some newbies that they are here just to earn cryptos and not to gain knowledge more likely staying in "surface knowledge". Locked sections could be the best way for legit learning newbies that could give them ethusiasm and curiosity after they gain such knowledge.

Even this could be considered as a "noob jail" as mentioned earlier it could be a thing to help the forum grow more. I am willing to help fellow newbies who are willing to learn and when the right time comes I'll help them earn. I am also willing to volunteer as an "overseer newbie" or a "pseudo-mod" that reports or warns a newbie that never changes their ulterior motives like spamming or repeating itself.

Why not just lock the main sections for posting from the newbies to avoid spam and only "beginners and help" and "off topic" section are allowed for them. In that case the spam in every sections would be lesser or gone and they would be taken care of by their tutors. And they could only unlock the sections if they gain a Merit or their activity increases to 100. What do you think ?
Also some newbies were only created to introduce a project from the altcoins section. I think its better if the mods put a payment for unlocking the altcoins section, and in that way the forum can control of ICO scams and it's their way to show their legitimacy.

I think almost everyone is against a complete restriction like newbie jail again, however I do think the newbie jail had some benefits to it, but simply put the cons outweighed the pros. In reality all the newbie jail did was put off the users which are completely effortlessly trying to earn money, but usually spammers are willing to put in the work initially if they can get whitelisted within 4 hours or whatever it was back when newbie jail was around. So, essentially all we did was delay the fact these low quality users could roam the forum, and post wherever they like.   


This, and allowing users to determine whether they want to include signatures on their thread upon opening are probably the best options I've seen proposed so far. Although, this only counteracts the signature spammers, and doesn't prevent users from farming their accounts. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the issue we will always have some sort of issue with low quality users, and those low quality users are going to be more frequent the more popular Bitcoin, and other cryptocurrencies get. We could put all the restrictions in place, and they will find a way around it.

The forum has been created for the purpose of discussion on bitcoin, helping others to solve problem they face while using bitcoin. In a nutshell, the forum is all about a place of discussion for the bitcoin enthusiast. Signature is a partial benefit users are enjoying and some are enjoying benefits of paid signature.
In this regard, newbies are not the actual problem forum is facing. It's the signature campaign. Imagine, there's no signature campaign, no problem would have been there.

Imagine from my side, I am pretty sure Theymos would consider adding a local board for us if there was no signature campaign. Now, because of signature campaign, if Theymos create new board for us, a lot of spammer will be there and an active moderator will also be required which would not be the case if no signature was there.
In my local, all the media and blogs are misleading Bitcoin which might be another reason of govt not giving it a try which is why I had tried to get a local board and later even tried to build a local forum which was failed.
I have no problem with signature campaign but if for signature campaign, newbie some way get deprived of the forum feature, even a little bit, I would say no to signature campaign.

I know about that statement, which is why I emphasized that it was probably a bad option. But I still think that something in that direction would be a good filter to separate the good from the bad newbies. Good and active members would get out of such a jail very quick, it take only 1 merit + activity.


We probably think of the same topic, but lately I've seen at least 4-5 similar ones in which some members express doubts about whether it's a legitimate newbie question, or fake one just starting discussion to get signature alt accounts in action. Of course I will not cite examples, because there is no point in making any allegations without solid evidence.


Good idea, this would definitely prevent anyone from opening a topic with the intention of using their alt accounts for signature spam. The question remains how technically feasible is this?

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Thank you all for your answers and suggestions

Bunch of mambo-jambo philosophy that showed not to work like it should in real life.
It is like giving guns and bombs to kids....because hey its 'freedom'
Let babies run the show.

I registered after having lurked the sexcoin thread for a number of weeks.  If I'd been told, "sorry, you can read but not post" I'm sure most if not all of us would not have bothered to register.

Some people register for "how to" advice, some go straight to the gambling or trading sections.  You would have to duplicate the entire forum in a "newbies only" sub section which is unpracticable.

I have an alternative idea, signature is automatically disabled on thread if the OP is newbie. That way, we don't need to restrict newbie account in any way.
If it's genuine question, OP is more likely to get helpful answer since spammer aren't interested on thread where it's signature is disabled.

Agree with you on this view  In case you do not keep logging in, users can still receive email notifications, links from emails do not require you to log in to see, so checking the last log-in is not an accurate option.
No, they should not be limited. We have to admit that new accounts are being abused for malicious purposes. But we have to accept it, because many people don't use this forum, but they know it as the best place to ask some issues (I'm talking about non-advertising questions). In this case, they can ask in any sections (because newbies don't know exactly where to ask questions), if we set limits, it will cause difficulties for them, which is not recommended, because fundamentally, this forum is geared towards freedom for all users  In summary, the abuse of new accounts will cause discomfort, but if limited functionality of new people, it will happen other unwanted incidents. New accounts have limited posting time at the start, I think it is already the best solution for now....

I would say yes for thread locking but the one where the newbies can only create threads on a particular board would definitely limit someone's freedom. So thread locking is the best solution here since in this way you will really know if a newbie is interested in their own topic or not. 5 posts left unreplied is good but we can also make it better by seeing if the newbie member already made other posts from different topics, in this way you will know that the newbie is really not interested in their topic. I don't know if the latter can be done automatically in the forum so I suggest that thread locking can also be done with the user of "report to moderator" function so the mods can also lock it right away before it turns into a megathread.

To further address this notion; in the circumstances address by the OP we are only assuming the newbie hasn't come back to read the responses.  Checking the newbie's profile page to check the last log-in isn't enough to make that assumption since the forum can be read without logging in.

If they aren't even coming back to read the replies to the question they asked, then an email reminder will achieve very little. That's assuming of course they have actually used an email they will check to sign up, and not just a throw away.

This also does nothing to solve the issue of fake newbies opening threads to respond to with their main account, or fake newbies opening threads to advertise some scam.

When the vast majority of senior members don't lock their threads which turn in to spam-fests, why should we be holding newbies to a higher standard?

Maybe instead of a newbie restriction the forum can take another route and send an automatic email to the registered email addresses of new users who create at least one thread. it could contain a link to started threads and a remainder to come back, check the replies, and consider locking the topic if the replies have been satisfactory.

I have noticed such threads myself and although they are mostly created by newbies I am still against restricting a whole group because of the actions of some of them. Newbies should have the same posting rights but if they break rules don't hesitate to report or warn them about it.

The question isn't the "debate-or-not?", but actually it's about the newbies not having knowledge of either the question they were asking or how things work here (or even those stupid alts). If a newbie himself is given an opportunity to just lock his thread once he's received enough answers for his/her question, s/he should do it. This "lock topic" feature is a game of a kid and they aren't too silly to come and say that "we never knew such things existed". It's not in the forum's liability to lock the thread but the newbies should do it, and IMHO the best way would be to display a warning in red color above their thread (just to them only) to lock the topic if what they're looking for, has been achieved. And a mod should step in and lock their thread if s/he believes that newbie is not responding, has enough replies and got the answer they were asking for and/or last but not the least, it's an alt account.

I am not anti-newbie, as I was also newbie once but I saw abuse so many times,
and I also asked for some restrictions for newbie accounts before.
They should be limited in terms of home many topics they can create.

I've definitely seen that happen numerous times, with the most recent in my memory being about one of the lesser-known hardware wallets.  It's obvious when a brand new account does this, and I usually tune that crap out.

That drives me nuts, because sometimes members will start a legitimately interesting thread and then they just abandon it without participating in the discussion they presumably wanted to spark.  Another thing that drives me even more nuttier is when a member (usually a low-ranked one) solicits opinions about an issue and doesn't give their own input.  What ends up happening is a thread is started with basically a one-line post which sometimes you can't even understand.

All that aside, I thought Theymos wasn't keen on restricting newbies--I remember quite a few threads just like this one with people wanting the "newbie jail" brought back and all sorts of other suggestions, but they all died off with nothing being changed.  And I don't know, the forum doesn't seem to have gotten much worse in the past few years, and especially since the introduction of the merit system.  There's no longer a forum-wide crisis of shitposting like there was leading up to Jan. 2018, so I doubt Theymos would even consider newbie restrictions.

Your idea isn't bad, but I think it will effect all newbies who will join this forum with good intentions. Just for couple of abuser we shouldn't prevent all newbies from learn & constructive discussion. I have noticed as well newbies spam has been increasing nowadays. To prevent them we should use report button and moderators should more careful about handle reports. Locking thread after got answer will prevent others newbies from get lesson from it. So only obvious spam thread could be trashed or locked. I don't think theymos is going to do something like that suggested by OP.

A member can cook up a half baked reply to a random thread on the forum much faster than they would if they went through the route of creating a new thread on an alt and then replying to it. I think the idea behind that action is fishing for merits rather than increasing post count.

I am also against newbie restrictions, there is already quite a handful of them aimed at reducing spam.How will newbies learn in a board dedicated just for them without seasoned members to answer their questions and queries? I can already see scammers opening newbie accounts and filling such board with lots of scam traps for newbies to fall into.

Report to moderator should be enough. If the topic is still valuable, request the mods to lock it. Else, ask them to trash it if possible.

I also share the same thought that the 5 post (or whatever number it is) is not necessary. What we need is an active engagement to report if something has already been answered. Not prolonging the discussion or adding a bunch of unnecessary stuff, or even worse, repeating what others already said.

I remember a discussion in one of the technical boards not long ago were a seasoned member speculated that the newbie who started the thread might be an alt of someone wearing a signature.  Posing a question with an alt, then engaging in the discussion to increase his post count.   I consider myself fairly skeptical and suspicious, but that suspicion seemed darn cynical to me.  I understand your concern, but the restrictions you're proposing seem like "throwing the baby out with the bath water."



A dedicated newbie board would become cluttered pretty darn quick.  We have boards dedicated to specific topics for a reason, a board like the one you're proposing would be all over the place with no structure.



This is a discussion board, and restrictions and limits on discussions would be counter-productive in my opinion.  I'm not saying that I think you're wrong, but what your proposing would only hurt legitimate newbies' ability to ask questions.

The other thing to keep in mind is there very well might not be a malicious sig-spammer behind it at all.  This isn't the only forum I've seen where newbies show up, ask a question, and never return to acknowledge a resolution.  There could be many reasons behind such behavior.

Imagine all of the insoluble negative problems just leaving newbie jail would have prevented.

Imagine how much better if sigs didn't exist the forum would be.

I will support your original proposal, if we reset the forum to operate under 2012 conditions free of merit cancer and the corrupt and faux " decentralized" trust.

Noob jail is (what you are essentially suggesting) would work great.  Those sig bans for X period are not being put to optimal use either.

The second solution would create enormous work and be very subjective.


Edit - I see a member already recognized you were describing noob jail which worked great. If now combined with sig bans upon release for x period if reasonable standard was not maintained could be great. Only if merit cancer was deleted as no longer required.

Default trust can be activity/ trade history determined.

There is also a trend of newbies who start threads in an effort to advertise a site by asking some kind of "innocent" question about the site. The site invariably turns out out to be a scam, and the newbie is never seen or heard from again.

This is essentially a newbie jail, which theymos has stated clearly he will never re-introduce.

Users who are asking questions so they themselves can answer them will already have scripted the answer they are going to post. Locking the thread after 5 posts won't stop them from posting with their main account.

I don't think there is a way you are going to be able to combat this without catching honest newbies in the crossfire.

I have noticed that some members have expressed doubts about the credibility of newbie members who open the topic, ask a question and then no longer participate in the discussion. It is certainly not logical to say that all such cases are actually alt accounts that start a discussion in which they then engage with their signature accounts, but there is no doubt that some members are doing just that. How to prevent such behavior while at the same time not deny newbie members who really need help to ask legitimate questions?

The first proposal is to create a board dedicated only to newbie members, and that board should be signature free, but the question is how to force newbies to post there, unless they were denied access to post anywhere on forum. This is probably a bad idea, but it may have potential with some modifications.

The second suggestion focuses more on a topic opened by a newbie member to be automatically locked in let's say 5 answers in the event that the topic launcher does not ask a new question or reply in any other way. I know it is possible that the answer to a question is not given in 5 answers, but if we look at the Beginners & Help board a specific answer to the question will probably be in the first 5 posts.

Would such a measure (or something similar) make any sense at all, does it limit the forum's freedom of expression and whether it can prevent the abuse of a newbie accounts?