Possible to Manipulate bitcoin price??

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Quote from: Nazmul012 on June 16, 2020, 01:22:40 AM

Quote from: Justin999 on May 19, 2020, 02:57:13 AM

Manipulating bitcoin price is easily possible & Controlled by big fish Trades, whales & holders. If we notice bitcoin chart from January 2017 to till 2020, Everywhere indicates manipulation. After making market bullish, they told us a fairy story that bitcoin is illegal. Can be stolen by hackers, Reasons for money laundering and so ban by usa, china, India or bla bla bla. Then people sell their hodling share to save theirs balance and thus market drops.
Then Big fish buy bitcoin with low price & start saying that:: bitcoin have a great future. Will hit $100k this year, will hit $1M soon etc etc and makes us crazy to investment in bitcoin again. So Pump-dump Pump-dump is going on & on and they make profit from It(Us). Small traders like us, are in loss after all. I hope soon some celebrity will have revails about how much bitcoin they have & tell us to buy bitcoin so that bitcoin will hit $20k soon as 2017 and then..... Cheesy

So true. Bitcoin lovers are always expecting high price of bitcoin. But there are some big traders/whales, they can manipulate market so badly anytime. small traders like us, Can't do anything against it. But if you can be an experienced wise trader, the amount of loss can be minimize. Although now people are buying crypto for have some profit during this Covid-19

Thank you for your opinion. Its very helpful for meh

Are people responses on here do satisfy you regarding into your question or query? If yes, then better to lock up this thread before it would go into mega spam thread. If no, then leave it as it should be.
Answering on the topic when it comes to manipulation thing then its always been possible, this had been also quite rampant in traditional markets like stocks or forex but on a very conservative way of manipulation
since its a centralized market which obvious manipulation would really have corresponding legal act or consequences.How much more in a unregulated market? There are lots of whales that can anytime
influence market price movements.

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Quote from: iv4n on June 16, 2020, 03:37:34 AM

Bitcoin lovers hold for that higher prices, bitcoin lovers also have an amount for having fun, trading or gambling, where we have a chance to make more. Small traders lose money because they are greedy, make a reasonable goal with amount you trading with. Don't expect to invest $50 in trading and to make $1000 in few days. It's not impossible, but it's like very hard to do that. Try to make 5% from your amount on weekly basis and maybe you will be more luck in long run.
It's possible to manipulate every market, is it easy or hard depends on how big market is. As market grows in value it's harder to manipulate it with.

It is greed that makes us forget about patterns that have been applied before, indeed, most of now want to always be for a short time even though it is difficult to do if the market conditions are uncertain or fluctuations.
But for me daily trading is also enough to take a little percentage but it is also not impossible to continue there must be a bad thing so we must be able to see or analyze what has been traded in the long term.

Gambling is not a good thing when we have extra money so having fun is necessary so that we don't get stressed.

iv4n

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Quote from: Nazmul012 on June 16, 2020, 01:22:40 AM

Quote from: Justin999 on May 19, 2020, 02:57:13 AM

Manipulating bitcoin price is easily possible & Controlled by big fish Trades, whales & holders. If we notice bitcoin chart from January 2017 to till 2020, Everywhere indicates manipulation. After making market bullish, they told us a fairy story that bitcoin is illegal. Can be stolen by hackers, Reasons for money laundering and so ban by usa, china, India or bla bla bla. Then people sell their hodling share to save theirs balance and thus market drops.
Then Big fish buy bitcoin with low price & start saying that:: bitcoin have a great future. Will hit $100k this year, will hit $1M soon etc etc and makes us crazy to investment in bitcoin again. So Pump-dump Pump-dump is going on & on and they make profit from It(Us). Small traders like us, are in loss after all. I hope soon some celebrity will have revails about how much bitcoin they have & tell us to buy bitcoin so that bitcoin will hit $20k soon as 2017 and then..... Cheesy

So true. Bitcoin lovers are always expecting high price of bitcoin. But there are some big traders/whales, they can manipulate market so badly anytime. small traders like us, Can't do anything against it. But if you can be an experienced wise trader, the amount of loss can be minimize. Although now people are buying crypto for have some profit during this Covid-19

Bitcoin lovers hold for that higher prices, bitcoin lovers also have an amount for having fun, trading or gambling, where we have a chance to make more. Small traders lose money because they are greedy, make a reasonable goal with amount you trading with. Don't expect to invest $50 in trading and to make $1000 in few days. It's not impossible, but it's like very hard to do that. Try to make 5% from your amount on weekly basis and maybe you will be more luck in long run.
It's possible to manipulate every market, is it easy or hard depends on how big market is. As market grows in value it's harder to manipulate it with.

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Quote from: Justin999 on May 19, 2020, 02:57:13 AM

Manipulating bitcoin price is easily possible & Controlled by big fish Trades, whales & holders. If we notice bitcoin chart from January 2017 to till 2020, Everywhere indicates manipulation. After making market bullish, they told us a fairy story that bitcoin is illegal. Can be stolen by hackers, Reasons for money laundering and so ban by usa, china, India or bla bla bla. Then people sell their hodling share to save theirs balance and thus market drops.
Then Big fish buy bitcoin with low price & start saying that:: bitcoin have a great future. Will hit $100k this year, will hit $1M soon etc etc and makes us crazy to investment in bitcoin again. So Pump-dump Pump-dump is going on & on and they make profit from It(Us). Small traders like us, are in loss after all. I hope soon some celebrity will have revails about how much bitcoin they have & tell us to buy bitcoin so that bitcoin will hit $20k soon as 2017 and then..... Cheesy

So true. Bitcoin lovers are always expecting high price of bitcoin. But there are some big traders/whales, they can manipulate market so badly anytime. small traders like us, Can't do anything against it. But if you can be an experienced wise trader, the amount of loss can be minimize. Although now people are buying crypto for have some profit during this Covid-19

STT

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The Big Short movie the price went up as it was not a market set price but arbitrary reflection via a properiety bond, so fixed prices. In the end they did correct price downwards after a delay as apparently they had left it unhedged on the idea the short was not likely to pay off, a bit like insurance underwritting I guess.

So far as the dollar, The Fed also can fix prices via interest rates and some more direct measures. It can be called on but its a long process to alter, eventually the market is bigger then people setting the prices but via QE they are the market makers and largest holders. I believe bonds are held within government pension plans, there is speculation that eventually every pension fund would be eventually forced to buy government bonds hence balancing the QE. Thats manipulation but with the peoples consent in theory, the same could be said of extremes taken in Venezula eventually it couldnt be patched up and every market resets fixed or not.
BTC is nowhere as controlled as all that because its a distributed system.

adaseb

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Ask yourself this? Is it possible to manipulate the price of stocks on the stock market? Basically we got what? 35 Million people unemployed and the NASDAQ100 looks like it engulfed the entire drop and could quite possibility reach its ATH in the next few weeks? Makes sense? Of course not.

Sure people are saying that the fed printing dollars is creating inflation which means they need to spend their USD so it doesnt' lose value. Or there are millions of new retail investors who are bored at home and are buying stocks with the $1200 stimulus cheques and its propping up the market.

Or it could be like that Big Short movie, where they all went Short but the markets still went up before it eventually collpased. Hence markets are manipulated everywhere. So yes its possible to manipulate it however its rarely done in Crypto as its done in the stock markets.

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You can't simply underestimate the capability of whales in the crypto market. They are so much influential as they have the money to play. However, as we all aware of that possible manipulations, we also anticipate it in a way of opposing their strategy. But sadly, not all of us are knowledgeable about this kind, and somewhat it hard for newcomers to escape because of their limitations.
It is to think that, we can't certainly eliminate this activity until such time that all crypto holders are becoming whales.

Janation

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Absolutely yes and you can't ignore that thing knowing that whales will strike if they wanted. We can't simply think that Bitcoin is 100% a decentralized coin this time, manipulations are often to happen, only we saw this time that hypes aren't particularly working unlike what it happens last 2017.
But for me, I'm so glad to have not happening again and it saves noobs to suffer losses.

I don't think you need to call them noobs.

Since we are talking about manipulation, and this whales manipulating the market whenever they wanted to as you said, everyone, can lose, including you. If you call people who lose at that time where the market behaves unpredictably noobs, then I guess we all belong there. Either way, we all started to be noobs so don't mock your starting point.

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Absolutely yes and you can't ignore that thing knowing that whales will strike if they wanted. We can't simply think that Bitcoin is 100% a decentralized coin this time, manipulations are often to happen, only we saw this time that hypes aren't particularly working unlike what it happens last 2017.
But for me, I'm so glad to have not happening again and it saves noobs to suffer losses.

Manipulation is indeed do exist to these markets since they do have the money that can really led to prices on what they wanted.
We know that the price can swing up on big percentage without even expecting.So its not something new that's why its important
that we should take actions on anything that do happen into this market.They are there and just trying to make up fud or fomo
so that the entire community will react and that's the time they would set in.

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Quote from: bitbunnny on May 22, 2020, 02:27:10 PM

Such theories about Bitcoin price being manipulated appear all the time. And the power of manipulation is often given to whales.
To my opinion whales are been given more significance than they actually have and I think that due to Bitcoin features and how it's functioning I think that the price is difficult to manipulate and that is often an excuse when price is in bad position.
So, manipulation of price is more a theory than fact.

I think the main reason for the emergence of these theories is the low (compared with other markets) liquidity of the crypto market. I think this is an obvious line of reasoning: the less liquidity, the less volume you can move the price, which means that whoever owns large assets manipulates the price. I think these theories will gradually die out, but for this the cryptocurrency market must develop.

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Speculations and manipulations will always happen but at the same time those are not the norms of the market, plus even if you do manipulation there is going to be a response to it so I do not think it matters. Let's say you managed to drop bitcoin from 10k to 6k as a manipulation, that doesn't mean that bitcoin price will stay at 6k forever, it will go back over 10k once again anyway.

So, I do not think it really matters that much, it changes the short term traders future and all that, but for people like me who are long term investors I do not think it really matters as much as you think it matters, whatever happens inside a year happens, I only look at it as what has happened to my coin after years and that can't change with manipulation at all.

STT

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Wisdom of crowds and consensus of opinion is what moves markets, otherwise you get a million people who are distributed and opposing pulling on a rope in different directions means we dont generally move too much in one direction at a time. A whale distorting the market is then less likely then everyone in that crowd of people or at least one side in the tug of war, just let go of the rope and what happens is we go flying. By this I mean when sell orders or buy orders are badly out of balance the market will move and sometimes rapidly. Its not a whale, its just the crowd effect and its not foreign as a concept as it happens all the time and in many markets and situations not just Bitcoin. As sheep do we recognise our own movements, not really we think its something magical like whales or secret agents, it cant just be people shifting about and getting scared all at once from the same news.

bitbunnny

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Such theories about Bitcoin price being manipulated appear all the time. And the power of manipulation is often given to whales.
To my opinion whales are been given more significance than they actually have and I think that due to Bitcoin features and how it's functioning I think that the price is difficult to manipulate and that is often an excuse when price is in bad position.
So, manipulation of price is more a theory than fact.

onrise

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Quote from: fortunecrypto on May 21, 2020, 08:31:28 AM

It applies to every market, as long as there are whales in a market there will always manipulation not only on Bitcoin but also on other coins, there was a time that a whales or group of whales manipulate the market, to crash the market, some small investors make profits from that, in my own opinion it's ok that the price crashes because that is the best time to always buy that you want to buy.

For whale’s thing may not be impossible though in btc you really need to have that big position to either buy/sell in order to move the market. Or a group of big intuitions or people must come together and do the trade likewise in order to move their ways. It may be done to an extent and thus in those scenarios many small investors fall in the public mode and create more selling pressure leading to more fall in market.

sheenshane

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That makes Bitcoin or any financial market trading more challenging and risky because if there are no manipulations from whales who else will be trading since there will be no chance of getting a profit from it. Sad point here is we don't belong to the whales or the big fish who can manipulate the price of bitcoin by pulling in and out their bitcoins to control the price in the market and because of these whales and big fish most of the time became a winner in the end.

However, whales and big fish will not live without small-time traders like us because we serve as the prey for them if they are able to catch us might as well be more careful and earn from them if we succeed.

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Quote from: Justin999 on May 19, 2020, 02:57:13 AM

Manipulating bitcoin price is easily possible & Controled by big fish Trades, whales & holders. If we notice bitcoin chart from January 2017 to till 2020, Eerywhere indicates manupulation. After making market bullish, they told us a fairy story that bitcoin is illegal. Can be stolen by hackers, Reasons for money laundering and so ban by usa, china, india or bla bla bla. Then people sell their hodling share to save theirs balance and thus market drops.
Then Big fish buy bitcoin with low price & start saying that:: bitcoin have a great future. Will hit $100k this year, will hit $1M soon etc etc and makes us crazy to investment in bitcoin again. So Pump-dump Pump-dump is going on & on and they make profit from It(Us). Small traders like us, are in loss after all. I hope soon some celebrety will have revails about how much bitcoin they have & tell us to buy bitcoin so that bitcoin will hit $20k soon as 2017 and then..... Cheesy

There is no impossible specially if we are talking about whales here in crypto.

Look if 5 whales having hundred thousands or even million bitcoins will go together and make same decision to
manipulate market?for sure they can just make the market Up and Down in just a matter of 24 hours.

They can Make the price fall and let panicking people sell off.

Then after few hours of dumping they will buy back again to make the price Move up trend again so buyers
will take advantage.

This cycle can be done multiple times in a span of 1 day so what can be the effect in the market?for sure another
bad for the newbie and starting to trust Crypto.

Ridwan Fauzi

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But one thing that you should know they (whales or someone who has a lot of bitcoin) will make buying and selling bitcoin depend on the news.

That is mean, we are as a small trader still have a chance to avoid any manipulation. We can buy bitcoin before whales do and otherwise when they will sell bitcoin we can sell it before day do.

This is why I'll tend to use trendline strategy and see book order when I trade. I'll know if something bad and something good will happen. As you have to know as well, someone who has a lot of money can do anything not only in bitcoin.

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Even a fairly small amount of capital can manipulate BTC yes it is possible and we have experienced this several times, one common tactics whales use to manipulate the crypto currency market are pump and dump. They will work out this especially effective with low market cap coins well that's how they make the market However they can.

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Quote from: cafetools on May 21, 2020, 12:25:28 AM

In order for a whale to tank Bitcoins price by even a tiny %1 they would need to sell suddenly $1,700,000,000 dollars. I just dont see it, altcoins with a lower market cap much easier.

Yes one billion and 700 million is %1, and IF a whale dumped this much what would happen?

BTC price would go from $9500 to $9405 dropping $95 or %1

You have a misconception about liquidity in the cryptocurrency market. Most of the volumes displayed by any exchange is fake. In fact, the volume of transactions determining the price of bitcoin is much less than you can see at CMC, I think that if someone throws 1.7 billion dollars to the market, then depending on the direction the price will easily make + 10x or -10x

el kaka22

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I feel like it is not the whales nor the speculators who are making bitcoin move this much, I feel like news websites have more power over bitcoin than anybody else. Its not really news websites but more like any "news" that comes from anywhere. Look at the 2009 bitcoin thingy, people saw that someone cashed out who was a very early bird, and they thought it was for sure satoshi and suddenly everyone is acting like there is a chance it was actually satoshi and price went down.

As you can see this wasn't a whale since it was only 50 btc, it wasn't really a speculator, it wasn't anything at all, it was just a news that was proven wrong later on which caused the prices to drop significantly. Hence I believe news in bitcoin world have bigger impact than anything else.

Reid

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Lots of money is needed to do that.
Billionaires won't spend on that high risk anymore. They are thru with those kind of deals.
Playing safe will be better.
But, if it will a group of millionaires then it could be done.
Where could you find one?

Manipulation can be done with high risk mostly, I bet they are having a hard time to buy back by now if they sold it somewhere in this line.

Fundamentals Of

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It may be possible but more often the manipulation that we think is happening in the Bitcoin market is just our imagination.

It is not easy to manipulate a market which is trading around the world in tens of billions in USD every 24 hours.

Sometimes we are just too paranoid. Sometimes we are just too overthinking of the price movements of Bitcoin.

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Its been happening not just to crypto market though. Penny and stock market whales had been doing it as well in there that they spread fud to a company and then when the price dips, they buy the cheap stocks from the ones who panic.

The price of BTC to go up can somehow be manipulated too. Look how much it can grow in such a period of time and suddenly drops again. But of course Demand and supply still affect especially because of halving.

fortunecrypto

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It applies to every market, as long as there are whales in a market there will always manipulation not only on Bitcoin but also on other coins, there was a time that a whales or group of whales manipulate the market, to crash the market, some small investors make profits from that, in my own opinion it's ok that the price crashes because that is the best time to always buy that you want to buy.

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Quote from: arwin100 on May 21, 2020, 05:32:46 AM

Quote from: Paycoinzzz on May 21, 2020, 01:13:44 AM

Quote from: hd49728 on May 19, 2020, 03:21:00 AM

Shortly: It is definitely possible!

There are always manipulations, from whales, from exchanges on any financial markets, not only crypto market and crypto exchanges. Have you ever thought why we have news, real, fake, delayed ones? In addition, news always bring markets move up or fall down.

but for the crypto market the manipulation level has risen to another level. It seems that every activity of the whole market is manipulated by a group of whales. They control the market and all coins follow it. This is an unacceptable thing.
As for other financial markets, it has the limits of trading. and whales only dare to manipulate in one or two businesses, it is not capable of manipulating the whole market. This is something to compare and condemn in the crypto market.

We don't have any proof if there are certain groups of big whales manipulating the market since there's no any foot tracks directed it unto them but the one I see for the past years is manipulated by creating fuds which can create panic to the people to sell. But if this really happened already then we are playing on bad market and bitcoin will have no future since its manipulated as you said.

proof ? if you saw huge transaction outgoing or incoming then that is already a proof that its whale . there are also articles and blogs about whale . they discuss if what they do on the market . about the fuds , only weak people are only will be affected .

fuds isnt serious than whale manipulation. . btc market isnt bad and manipulation isnt a bad thing too because this makes the volatility work . we can buy and selll depending on where the manipulation goin

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Quote from: Paycoinzzz on May 21, 2020, 01:13:44 AM

Quote from: hd49728 on May 19, 2020, 03:21:00 AM

Shortly: It is definitely possible!

There are always manipulations, from whales, from exchanges on any financial markets, not only crypto market and crypto exchanges. Have you ever thought why we have news, real, fake, delayed ones? In addition, news always bring markets move up or fall down.

but for the crypto market the manipulation level has risen to another level. It seems that every activity of the whole market is manipulated by a group of whales. They control the market and all coins follow it. This is an unacceptable thing.
As for other financial markets, it has the limits of trading. and whales only dare to manipulate in one or two businesses, it is not capable of manipulating the whole market. This is something to compare and condemn in the crypto market.

We don't have any proof if there are certain groups of big whales manipulating the market since there's no any foot tracks directed it unto them but the one I see for the past years is manipulated by creating fuds which can create panic to the people to sell. But if this really happened already then we are playing on bad market and bitcoin will have no future since its manipulated as you said.

Paycoinzzz

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Quote from: hd49728 on May 19, 2020, 03:21:00 AM

Shortly: It is definitely possible!

There are always manipulations, from whales, from exchanges on any financial markets, not only crypto market and crypto exchanges. Have you ever thought why we have news, real, fake, delayed ones? In addition, news always bring markets move up or fall down.

but for the crypto market the manipulation level has risen to another level. It seems that every activity of the whole market is manipulated by a group of whales. They control the market and all coins follow it. This is an unacceptable thing.
As for other financial markets, it has the limits of trading. and whales only dare to manipulate in one or two businesses, it is not capable of manipulating the whole market. This is something to compare and condemn in the crypto market.

cafetools

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In order for a whale to tank Bitcoins price by even a tiny %1 they would need to sell suddenly $1,700,000,000 dollars. I just dont see it, altcoins with a lower market cap much easier.

Yes one billion and 700 million is %1, and IF a whale dumped this much what would happen?

BTC price would go from $9500 to $9405 dropping $95 or %1

rodskee

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Quote from: Justin999 on May 19, 2020, 02:57:13 AM

Manipulating bitcoin price is easily possible & Controled by big fish Trades, whales & holders. If we notice bitcoin chart from January 2017 to till 2020, Eerywhere indicates manupulation.

This has been the case for long time now,i remember since i am new here there are many accusation of Bitcoin price being manipulated yet nothing proves it right all is speculations.so one thing is certain if you doubt investing then don't do it,simple as that.

Quote from: Justin999 on May 19, 2020, 02:57:13 AM

After making market bullish, they told us a fairy story that bitcoin is illegal.
Can be stolen by hackers, Reasons for money laundering and so ban by
usa, china, india or bla bla bla. Then people sell their hodling share to
save theirs balance and thus market drops.

actually whose who?seems that you wanna say that Whale are talking?
lol there is no such thing only topics here in forum explains those but in the end?no proofs at all

Quote from: Justin999 on May 19, 2020, 02:57:13 AM

Then Big fish buy bitcoin with low price & start saying that:: bitcoin have a great future. Will hit $100k this year, will hit $1M soon etc etc and makes us crazy to investment in bitcoin again. So Pump-dump Pump-dump is going on & on and they make profit from It(Us). Small traders like us, are in loss after all. I hope soon some celebrety will have revails about how much bitcoin they have & tell us to buy bitcoin so that bitcoin will hit $20k soon as 2017 and then..... Cheesy

actually all your pointing here is speculative and none speaks the truth but
of course we will respect your sentiment but we will stay supporting Bitcoin.

maxreish

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We know that already. The manipulation is obviously taking this market. Despite of it, we are still here. We are playing the cards and go with the flow in crypto market because we believe that we can still be successful and will have positive gains, right?

We just need good risk management plan, alternative plan and other tools that wr need to handle this manipulation.Pump and dump is not actually new, since whales can actually manipulate the market, we may dance with it then.

STT

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Quote

also owners of large mining facilities powered by renewable energy,

We're going to criticise people who make investment, take risk and engage time and effort into operations to enable Bitcoin to confirm securely not knowing the if the price will support their money spent in the next 12 months or not. Because to me that sounds alot like capitalism, you risk capital you expend effort and then if you were correct in the market and with some luck there is profit. Thats not a fake market or somehow a puppet master operation, the BTC blockchain network is way larger then all of us.
The only real danger is when one pool gets to be more then 50% of the hashing power and thats not been recently true so far as I know, if that happens you have the idea they can fake transactions or divert funds though it'd destroy all faith and pricing in BTC so is incredibly unlikely. Lets consider first the biggest manipulator of currency in the world which is Federal Reserve which swears its doing it for the good of economy, even if I believe them on that they are still very much a centralised and deliberate manipulation of other peoples cash. That system is where waves from any whales come from.

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Quote from: Justin999 on May 19, 2020, 02:57:13 AM

Manipulating bitcoin price is easily possible & Controled by big fish Trades, whales & holders. If we notice bitcoin chart from January 2017 to till 2020, Eerywhere indicates manupulation. After making market bullish, they told us a fairy story that bitcoin is illegal. Can be stolen by hackers, Reasons for money laundering and so ban by usa, china, india or bla bla bla. Then people sell their hodling share to save theirs balance and thus market drops.
Then Big fish buy bitcoin with low price & start saying that:: bitcoin have a great future. Will hit $100k this year, will hit $1M soon etc etc and makes us crazy to investment in bitcoin again. So Pump-dump Pump-dump is going on & on and they make profit from It(Us). Small traders like us, are in loss after all. I hope soon some celebrety will have revails about how much bitcoin they have & tell us to buy bitcoin so that bitcoin will hit $20k soon as 2017 and then..... Cheesy

Get used to it because not only on cryptocurrency market where manipulation do happens even on forex and stocks too.Good thing that you are able to scope up those things happening around on which some people arent really that aware on.Its just normal for market manipulators or in short whales would really make movements for them to benefit out.

Market is really just composed of sellers and buyers which basically means the money that circulate around the market would really be in just between two place.Losses and gains are part of it.
Being a small trader doesnt mean that we do have the disadvantage most of the time.We can still ride in the waves just like whales if you do just know on how to spot out the
correct moment on where to enter or when to get out.

My primary rule is "Buy the rumor,sell the news"

dentolas

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I have no doubts that the price can and is manipulated, and those whales are also owners of large mining facilities powered by renewable energy, making things even easier, they spend money pumping the price, but then they have a huge profit selling most of their BTC at crazy prices, only to buy everything back dureing the following bear season...
people speak a lot about economy and charts, but in such a small market as crypto, that just do not apply... whales send a signal, the chart gurus spread it around, then whales play with traders and get profit... the cycle of BTC

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Quote from: STT on May 19, 2020, 05:13:06 PM

Quote

Market is controlled by Whales , which accounts for 50% of the total Bitcoins owned by anyone

50% of BTC is not owned by whales. Its the most widely distributed crypto blockchain that is available so far as I know~

I agree that almost everyone has had the opportunity to purchase bitcoin during these years. But if we compare the number of existing bitcoin users and those users who should buy it when mass adoption occurs, then your statement becomes far from obvious Wink

Perhaps from the point of view of new users, even ordinary users like us will be considered whales Cheesy

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That is what I have said for years but nobody cared about me, I have been around here for 5 years and I have seen every method possible and ever since this coin offering idea started the projects started to be less and less decentralized but for some reason everyone still invests. I am sorry but if you are giving me the coin in exchange of bitcoin, I am not buying.

I want the miners to do it. Remember how ethereum got created? Remember dash? Litecoin? Monero? All of those coins literally published their wallet in order to start and that resulted with coin being out there. Nobody premined it, nobody controlled it, there wasn't any coin at all in the market on day 1, and miners mined it to create that coin from scratch. Hell low marketing low effort coins was so unknown that they had to rent rigs to mine their own coins to get it, they didn't premine it to themselves, so they had to spend from their own pockets to get their own created coins.

kapalmabur

sr. member

Activity: 2002

Merit: 250

it seems like this time the price of bitcoin is difficult to manipulate, because the impact of Halving is very heavy, the manipulation can be a big investor, but the miners will not let the price of Bitcoin fall so far, and that's good, manipulation will disappear from Bitcoin hopefully

michellee

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It is possible to manipulate bitcoin price, but I don't think that the whales can move all of the exchange at the same time because that will risk a huge bitcoin amount, and I don't think that the whales want to do that. Maybe they can move the bitcoin price at one or two exchanges, and I think we can get besides on them to take the profit too because if we can analyze the price, we will get the good sign to buy bitcoin. But it is difficult to know when the bitcoin price will move so we could only be careful of what will happen in the market.

Janation

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Quote from: pooya87 on May 19, 2020, 05:06:04 AM

there is a huge difference between "control" and "manipulate" and you are confusing the two together.
controlling price is what is happening in the altcoin market where the premine owners, the company that owns and controls the altcoin, or the big altcoin whales (in some cases a small whale) can change the price at any time and with any percentages in any direction that they want. this is called control.

This is the correct answer here.

But since we are talking about control, we can relate this to decentralization, right? Since these owners can "control" the price, then can we still call altcoins decentralized? There are altcoins that are centralized but there are those that are still controlled by the owners. The long-running altcoins, are they still under manipulation or control?

Free1bitco.in

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that might be possible, but only the pope can do that. Well, I hope they immediately manipulate or increase the price of bitcoin or altcoin. however, when the price rises, it is the real thing. You can sell or hold the assets that you have at the time. when you sell it at a price when it's high, the manipulation can make you profit. so far there are only theories, but we don't really know whether prices are really being manipulated or not.

STT

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Quote

Market is controlled by Whales , which accounts for 50% of the total Bitcoins owned by anyone

50% of BTC is not owned by whales. Its the most widely distributed crypto blockchain that is available so far as I know, probably from being around so long and being sold off so often which has given everyone and his dog the chance to buy some if they wanted. Its possible for short durations and in limited scope to influence the price but the problem is with constructing a false narrative in the price is the market will disagree and a leak springs out from your marvellously constructed fake price, soon its a water fall of orders contrary to what you wanted because quite a few BTC and they'll do whatever they feel like with it.
BTC is volatile but I dont see it as especially fake, its very often selling often after a gain and it springs back up after a sell because the supply is limited and known where as FIAT currency is constantly being thrown out in new quantities by central authorities which creates loose money and price has risen in BTC quite easily I guess.

7788bitcoin

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Quote from: Febo on May 19, 2020, 02:47:28 PM

What does this teaches you? Dont trade but simply hold and buy whenever you can more. You will spend some to buy things after price reach old ATH at $20000. If you will try to trade weekly or daily, then sooner or latter you will get burned on this manipulations.

If you are well versed in assessing the risk you can trade and make a ton of money in the short period but the safest option is always holding the coins for the long term, invest when the market goes down and to avoid getting burned you do not necessarily sell when the market goes down, avoid panic selling and everything will be alright and have the patients to hold for a longer period.

KTChampions

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I think we should divide the issue of manipulation into short-term and long-term. Obviously, a large holder of bitcoins (or dollars) can affect the price and very significantly in the short term. As for the long-term prospect, a completely different situation is here - the influence of fundamental factors is decisive and no “whale” can surpass them.

Febo

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Quote from: Justin999 on May 19, 2020, 02:57:13 AM

Manipulating bitcoin price is easily possible & Controled by big fish Trades, whales & holders. If we notice bitcoin chart from January 2017 to till 2020, Eerywhere indicates manipulation.

What does this teaches you? Dont trade but simply hold and buy whenever you can more. You will spend some to buy things after price reach old ATH at $20000. If you will try to trade weekly or daily, then sooner or latter you will get burned on this manipulations.

Bezobraznike

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Quote from: gantez on May 19, 2020, 02:00:01 PM

Manipulation is part of the business of cryptocurrency as I have seen also. Sometimes market moves without a reason that has nothing with economic indicator. This simply means fund created in the market. It can be fake information that will create fear or anxiety and the traders starts reaction in making orders.

It's not only the part of crypto-markets, every market is vulnerable to manipulations, there're many kinds
of manipulations with markets. Stock-market has manipulations as well, and they have regulations and law-
enforcement agencies for that!
It's possible to manipulate with any price, therefore it's possible to manipulate with Bitcoin price as well.
How Bitcoin price grows, and market cap gets higher I think it will be harder to manipulate with it.

gantez

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Manipulation is part of the business of cryptocurrency as I have seen also. Sometimes market moves without a reason that has nothing with economic indicator. This simply means fund created in the market. It can be fake information that will create fear or anxiety and the traders starts reaction in making orders.

taufik123

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The possibility of bitcoin price manipulation by an elite whales group will be very profitable. Make good news about bitcoin which will soon be dumped up to $ 100k, making a new conspiracy about the future of bitcoin.

Whatever they can do with the help of the media and they (Whales) pay the media to make the news as they want. When the profits are quite a lot, then they start a massive dump with FUD spread across all media.

As small traders we can only follow the games they make, but we also have to learn how to be Whales and follow their games safely without having to get involved in the FOMO they created.

hatshepsut93

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Conspiracies are not as easy to execute as you might think. Imagine a group of whales agreeing to pump the price to some level, let's say $20,000 and then dump it. Then there is a huge incentive for members of this group to sell early and take the most profit. It would take just one whale to sell his stash at $19,000 to bury this plan and ruin the profits for the rest of the group. If you tried in real life to approach a whale and suggest to manipulate the market, they would laugh, because they know it's a stupid idea.

Manipulation happens on smaller markets, like altcoins, where a single entity has enough money to move the market alone.

Also, what might look to you like a manipulation is often just a market being irrational. All markets go through bullish and bearish cycles, and these patterns are especially clear with speculative markets like Bitcoin.

maydna

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I don't mind if the whales manipulate the market. As long as I can take part in that market, I think I will be able to make a profit too, although the profit is not too big as the whales. I think the other market is the same as the crypto market, and we cannot do anything except follow the market, or we leave the market for a while.

We need to adjust or to have the other strategy based on the market movement, so we can use the different method if the market suddenly changes the direction. If we can prepare for the worst thing that can happen in the market, I think we will be okay, and we will have the opportunity to use the time for our benefits.

Velkro

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Quote from: Justin999 on May 19, 2020, 02:57:13 AM

Manipulating bitcoin price is easily possible & Controled by big fish Trades, whales & holders. If we notice bitcoin chart from January 2017 to till 2020, Eerywhere indicates manupulation. After making market bullish, they told us a fairy story that bitcoin is illegal. Can be stolen by hackers, Reasons for money laundering and so ban by usa, china, india or bla bla bla. Then people sell their hodling share to save theirs balance and thus market drops.

Its not that easy as you described it. In past reasonable amount of money could manipulate market easily. But now when its millions and billions are involved its not that easy anymore.
Sure wealthy or group of rich people can try to manipulate price but its not something that couldn't backfire.
Its not easy job, so in general you just dont care about it unless you trade a lot.

kryptqnick

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Quote from: pooya87 on May 19, 2020, 05:06:04 AM

there is a huge difference between "control" and "manipulate" and you are confusing the two together.
controlling price is what is happening in the altcoin market where the premine owners, the company that owns and controls the altcoin, or the big altcoin whales (in some cases a small whale) can change the price at any time and with any percentages in any direction that they want. this is called control.
manipulation on the other hand is simply affecting the price on a much smaller scale. it happens in literary any market that you can think of. from traditional markets to any goods you buy and to stock market,... bitcoin is not an exception to this rule either.

I like this distinction. Using this terminology, I'd say nobody has control over the price of Bitcoin. As for manipulations, you're saying that it's about smaller changes of the price (right?), but how small are we talking? 'Cause I could believe that a big company could make the price go 2% up in 24 hours, I'd be hesitant is someone said that a 10% drop is caused by the whales, and I would say it's a conspiracy if we're talking about 15% change or more. The op is talking about 'manipulation everywhere' from 2017 till 2020, and this is something I can't believe in. What would you say?

salamat700

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In my view, any market can be manipulated though I understand that in other markets regulations can be in place and there are many watchdogs ready to investigate and prosecute if needed. We don't have that yet in cryptocurrency although regulations in different countries are now starting to sprout. We can still consider cryptocurrency (Bitcoin and the rest of the gang) to be a baby, so we might as well expect more regulations to be drawn and implemented as years are to slowly turn. Manipulations can be so creative so there are many ways this can be done and there can be many players involved, all done with the aim of making a profit.

Cityhunter123

newbie

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I do not think that anyone other than financial whales can somehow affect the price of bitcoin, except for spontaneous changes in the action of most of the investors

Oasisman

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There's a direct manipulation where whales make massive sell-off and massive buy outs. Thus, causing an impact to the market price. Then there's an indirect manipulation using the speculative tools where blogs and articles are discussing things that could change the market sentiments. Persuading people when to buy and when to sell.
Anyway, It's still up to you how you ride the manipulation when you're already aware about this.

Tahid12

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Of course they can manupulate bitcoin price when they want to do it and that's a very normal matter in cryto market. So you had better avoid picnic sell. at first try to understand the whole market condition before buy or sell any cryto currency

pooya87

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there is a huge difference between "control" and "manipulate" and you are confusing the two together.
controlling price is what is happening in the altcoin market where the premine owners, the company that owns and controls the altcoin, or the big altcoin whales (in some cases a small whale) can change the price at any time and with any percentages in any direction that they want. this is called control.
manipulation on the other hand is simply affecting the price on a much smaller scale. it happens in literary any market that you can think of. from traditional markets to any goods you buy and to stock market,... bitcoin is not an exception to this rule either.

boyptc

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As the other markets too.

Usual markets do have this manipulation and in bitcoin, we all assume that there is but in the traditional markets, there's a regulation that they are following whilst in bitcoin's, there's none.

Can we do something with that? we just ride them.

LogitechMouse

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With the current market cap of the Bitcoin, it is definitely possible.

Compare to other traditional markets, the total market cap of crypto in general is relatively low so price manipulation can easily happen to Bitcoin. Whales are doing this and they can do this anytime they want. The can also pump and dump any coin in an exchange if they want to do it.

The only way to prevent this at least is to increase the total money that is going to the market. We increase the total market cap of crypto.

20kevin20

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They're called waves of FOMO and waves of FUD. Whenever one begins, you can almost always expect a pretty major price change. Twitter always shows a sneak-peek of these waves, quick searches of $BTC usually give you a feeling of which of the waves began. You'd be surprised to see how silent and sad Twitter was regarding BTC tweets back in 2015 when BTC was on its biggest downfall..

These waves could easily be started by whales. Own 1-10k BTC and you'd be in easy control over the markets to your own advantage Wink

fiulpro

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Okay , so I would try and explain why I think it is possible to do so .
Reasons:-

Market is controlled by Whales , which accounts for 50% of the total Bitcoins owned by anyone. therefore it is very easy for them to control the prices .

Whales are responsible for pouring out the money and selling Bitcoins changing the price drastically, it have been proven over the years.

In August 2019 , the total number of Whales hit the highest number of wallets considering the past , therefore the manipulation of market will keep on happening for years to come .

Leviathan.007

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Yes, It's possible.
Since we know there are some whales holding and trading thousands of bitcoins. they can simple manipulate the price by buying and selling million dollars of bitcoins. Unfortunately, this is happening on altcoins too. A whale or a group of whales manipulating the price to take some advantage out of it.

Jawhead999

legendary

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No doubt, but you said above is true if Bitcoin price got manipulation from whales. Pump and dump is normal in cryptocurrency since Bitcoin price is high volatility, example last week the price down from $10k to $8,1k in around 30 minutes.

But I don't like you said when the whales or journalism told to sell bitcoin because of cons reasons and buy bitcoin because of pros reasons. I mean, IMO you didn't have much knowledge about bitcoin and didn't know what you invest for. Seems you're only pure following whales or journalism, it's like you doing pure copy-trading from an expert trader. Do you think after you do copy-trading, you will become an expert trader like you thought before?

All you need is knowing what you invest for

hd49728

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Shortly: It is definitely possible!

There are always manipulations, from whales, from exchanges on any financial markets, not only crypto market and crypto exchanges. Have you ever thought why we have news, real, fake, delayed ones? In addition, news always bring markets move up or fall down.

Without price manipulations, we don't have real market because we don't see waves in which we can earn profits if we are smart and get losses if we are stupid and unable to control our greedy trading behaviours.

bolawin

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Quote from: Justin999 on May 19, 2020, 02:57:13 AM

Manipulating bitcoin price is easily possible & Controled by big fish Trades, whales & holders. If we notice bitcoin chart from January 2017 to till 2020, Eerywhere indicates manupulation. After making market bullish, they told us a fairy story that bitcoin is illegal. Can be stolen by hackers, Reasons for money laundering and so ban by usa, china, india or bla bla bla. Then people sell their hodling share to save theirs balance and thus market drops.
Then Big fish buy bitcoin with low price & start saying that:: bitcoin have a great future. Will hit $100k this year, will hit $1M soon etc etc and makes us crazy to investment in bitcoin again. So Pump-dump Pump-dump is going on & on and they make profit from It(Us). Small traders like us, are in loss after all. I hope soon some celebrety will have revails about how much bitcoin they have & tell us to buy bitcoin so that bitcoin will hit $20k soon as 2017 and then..... Cheesy

So its the same on all market then not just in crypto, lol

Justin999

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Manipulating bitcoin price is easily possible & Controled by big fish Trades, whales & holders. If we notice bitcoin chart from January 2017 to till 2020, Eerywhere indicates manupulation. After making market bullish, they told us a fairy story that bitcoin is illegal. Can be stolen by hackers, Reasons for money laundering and so ban by usa, china, india or bla bla bla. Then people sell their hodling share to save theirs balance and thus market drops.
Then Big fish buy bitcoin with low price & start saying that:: bitcoin have a great future. Will hit $100k this year, will hit $1M soon etc etc and makes us crazy to investment in bitcoin again. So Pump-dump Pump-dump is going on & on and they make profit from It(Us). Small traders like us, are in loss after all. I hope soon some celebrety will have revails about how much bitcoin they have & tell us to buy bitcoin so that bitcoin will hit $20k soon as 2017 and then..... Cheesy

Topic: Possible to Manipulate bitcoin price?? (Read 1143 times)