Possible to trace Bitcoin - Why using Tor ?

Borisz

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Quote from: sgk on February 16, 2015, 05:03:23 AM

A survey of top VPN providers:
http://torrentfreak.com/which-vpn-services-take-your-anonymity-seriously-2014-edition-140315/

Out of some 25-ish services only 4 or 5 services keep ANY information about IP address. And most erase this log within 24 hours.
So if I had a choice between TOR and VPN, you know what I'm going to choose.

In the end both come down to trust.

Do you trust the Tor exit nodes possibly operated by NSA to capture traffic?
Or do you trust the VPN provide who claims that there are no logs, and maybe secretly keeping them?

Muhammed Zakir

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Quote from: sgk on February 16, 2015, 05:03:23 AM

A survey of top VPN providers:
http://torrentfreak.com/which-vpn-services-take-your-anonymity-seriously-2014-edition-140315/

Out of some 25-ish services only 4 or 5 services keep ANY information about IP address. And most erase this log within 24 hours.
So if I had a choice between TOR and VPN, you know what I'm going to choose.

Thanks for the link. Here is a Bitcointalk thread : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/best-vpns-using-bitcoin-247212.

But VPN doesn't help you much either : https://www.goldenfrog.com/take-back-your-internet/articles/7-myths-about-vpn-logging-and-anonymity.

-MZ

sgk

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Quote from: Muhammed Zakir on February 16, 2015, 04:52:49 AM

Quote from: sgk on February 16, 2015, 04:48:29 AM

How reliable are premium VPN services that let you fake your IP address?
If TOR is not an option, I assume VPN would be the best choice for covering the real IP address?

Most paid VPN services do not log the IP addresses for more than 24 hours (a few don't log them at all), and they don't give away that information without a court order. And since local laws are different from country-to-country, it would be as hard as shutting down TPB.

As VPN stores your IP, it isn't that easy to get it once there is a hack. Even if they only release after a court order, you can tell your lawyer or yourself to them to save the IP data of that particular day.

-MZ

A survey of top VPN providers:
http://torrentfreak.com/which-vpn-services-take-your-anonymity-seriously-2014-edition-140315/

Out of some 25-ish services only 4 or 5 services keep ANY information about IP address. And most erase this log within 24 hours.
So if I had a choice between TOR and VPN, you know what I'm going to choose.

Borisz

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There were some VPNs that did give out information on its users in cases of torrenting, although they said they have no logs. Somehow magically they still had. Just do a research and check for press which VPN has bad/good reputation.

VPN > Virtual machine + another VPN > proxychain

Muhammed Zakir

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Quote from: sgk on February 16, 2015, 04:48:29 AM

How reliable are premium VPN services that let you fake your IP address?
If TOR is not an option, I assume VPN would be the best choice for covering the real IP address?

Most paid VPN services do not log the IP addresses for more than 24 hours (a few don't log them at all), and they don't give away that information without a court order. And since local laws are different from country-to-country, it would be as hard as shutting down TPB.

As VPN stores your IP, it isn't that easy to get it once there is a hack. Even if they only release after a court order, you can tell your lawyer or yourself to them to save the IP data of that particular day.

-MZ

sgk

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Quote from: Borisz on February 16, 2015, 04:37:49 AM

Quote from: Madness on February 16, 2015, 04:29:09 AM

So using Tor with Bitcoin Core or any other wallet is indeed safe and I have nothing to worry about ? Totally annonymus or still there is chance to my IP to get revealed ?

~ Madness

Read my post above. There is a link to a paper published about why it isn't good to use Tor with Bitcoin.

How reliable are premium VPN services that let you fake your IP address?
If TOR is not an option, I assume VPN would be the best choice for covering the real IP address?

Most paid VPN services do not log the IP addresses for more than 24 hours (a few don't log them at all), and they don't give away that information without a court order. And since local laws are different from country-to-country, it would be as hard as shutting down TPB.

Borisz

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Quote from: Muhammed Zakir on February 16, 2015, 04:42:27 AM

Quote from: Madness on February 16, 2015, 04:29:09 AM

So using Tor with Bitcoin Core or any other wallet is indeed safe and I have nothing to worry about ? Totally annonymus or still there is chance to my IP to get revealed ?

It may not be good using TOR with wallets but when pushing/relaying the TX, using TOR will be good.

Quote from: Madness on February 16, 2015, 04:29:09 AM

EDIT : Alright , fully got it now . mind linking me to thread where Gavin said that too ? thanks

~ Madness

Link : http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/04/02/watch-bitcoin-robbery-in-slow-motion/

From the site: Fergal Reid and Martin Harrigan have even observed that “the actions of many users are far from anonymous” in their 2011 research paper “Bitcoin is Not Anonymous”.

-MZ

Yap I just talked to someone over there too Wink

Read the abstract only, that gives you a pretty good idea what it is about.

Muhammed Zakir

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Quote from: Madness on February 16, 2015, 04:29:09 AM

So using Tor with Bitcoin Core or any other wallet is indeed safe and I have nothing to worry about ? Totally annonymus or still there is chance to my IP to get revealed ?

It may not be good using TOR with wallets but when pushing/relaying the TX, using TOR will be good.

Quote from: Madness on February 16, 2015, 04:29:09 AM

EDIT : Alright , fully got it now . mind linking me to thread where Gavin said that too ? thanks

~ Madness

Link : http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/04/02/watch-bitcoin-robbery-in-slow-motion/

From the site: Fergal Reid and Martin Harrigan have even observed that “the actions of many users are far from anonymous” in their 2011 research paper “Bitcoin is Not Anonymous”.

-MZ

Madness

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Quote from: Borisz on February 16, 2015, 04:37:49 AM

Quote from: Madness on February 16, 2015, 04:29:09 AM

So using Tor with Bitcoin Core or any other wallet is indeed safe and I have nothing to worry about ? Totally annonymus or still there is chance to my IP to get revealed ?

~ Madness

Read my post above. There is a link to a paper published about why it isn't good to use Tor with Bitcoin.

Yeah I saw that you posted it here too : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10476186 but didn't check it out to be honest .
Anyway It looks too long , so I'am going to read it I hope it contains useful informations

thanks bro .

~ Madness

Borisz

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Quote from: Madness on February 16, 2015, 04:29:09 AM

So using Tor with Bitcoin Core or any other wallet is indeed safe and I have nothing to worry about ? Totally annonymus or still there is chance to my IP to get revealed ?

~ Madness

Read my post above. There is a link to a paper published about why it isn't good to use Tor with Bitcoin.

Madness

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Quote from: Muhammed Zakir on February 16, 2015, 04:25:21 AM

Quote from: Amph on February 16, 2015, 04:18:03 AM

you trace it by simply checking backward, the address, but mixer could be a problem(never use one, don't know how strong the mix is)

If you take inputs of other address in TX you send to a mixer, it maybe easier to track. For easier thing, you can just sign a TX offline and relay it through Blockchain.info or Blockr.io or any other using TOR which doesn't reveal the IP of the sender.

-MZ

So using Tor with Bitcoin Core or any other wallet is indeed safe and I have nothing to worry about ? Totally annonymus or still there is chance to my IP to get revealed ?
@avw1982 , mm yeah I guess I understand now but don't think that a hacker is too dumb to use his real IP .
EDIT : Alright , fully got it now . mind linking me to thread where Gavin said that too ? thanks

~ Madness

Muhammed Zakir

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Quote from: Madness on February 16, 2015, 04:21:54 AM

Quote from: Amph on February 16, 2015, 04:18:03 AM

you trace it by simply checking backward, the address, but mixer could be a problem(never use one, don't know how strong the mix is)

Still didn't understand to be honest , what do you mean by checking Backward ? I don't even get how it's possible to get someones IP just from a Bitcoin Adress .

~ Madness

IP address aren't stored on Blockchain but

Quote from: Gavin Anderson

Unless you are very careful in the way you use Bitcoin (and you have the technical know-how to use it with other anonymizing technologies like Tor or i2p), you should assume that a persistent, motivated attacker will be able to associate your IP address with your bitcoin transactions.

-MZ

Borisz

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Quote from: Madness on February 16, 2015, 03:40:17 AM

Hi,

Alright , so I was reading some threads about BTER (Chinese-based exchange website) which got hacked yesterday and they lost about 7170 BTC (~1.7 Million USD ).
Some people said that the hacker won't really do much with the Bitcoin because if he start using them , they will be able to trace him ? How is that even possible is it possible to trace Bitcoin (Sender , receiver IP's) , I sometimes see a Map on Blockchain.info but not sure what is it for to be honest .

So how it's possible to trace Bitcoin and is using Tor with Bitcoin Core or any other wallet will prevent such a things ? if it dosen't prevent that then why some people are using it
Any answers are highly appreciated , also it's an Open discussion , feel free to post whatever you want .

~ Madness

There was a paper on this, or actually multiple.

The principle relies on checking input/output from/to bitcoin addresses and linking them. Given enough information you can determine with high accuracy which addresses belong to which wallet. If so, then you can backtrace addresses and transactions and even though you still don't know WHO owns the wallet, you will know which addresses are owned by given person. Eventually they have to cash out or do something with the coins. You will be able to see where the coins go.

Bitcoin over Tor isn’t a good idea

avw1982

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Quote from: Madness on February 16, 2015, 04:21:54 AM

Quote from: Amph on February 16, 2015, 04:18:03 AM

you trace it by simply checking backward, the address, but mixer could be a problem(never use one, don't know how strong the mix is)

Still didn't understand to be honest , what do you mean by checking Backward ? I don't even get how it's possible to get someones IP just from a Bitcoin Adress .

~ Madness

\

Checking backwards is that you check the flow of the BTC thru the chain. And getting an ip is hard. Maybe you can find it out when someone logged in on a website and pay from a address which containts stolen bitcoins.

Muhammed Zakir

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I prefer Zakir over Muhammed when mentioning me!

Quote from: Amph on February 16, 2015, 04:18:03 AM

you trace it by simply checking backward, the address, but mixer could be a problem(never use one, don't know how strong the mix is)

If you take inputs of other address in TX you send to a mixer, it maybe easier to track. For easier thing, you can just sign a TX offline and relay it through Blockchain.info or Blockr.io or any other using TOR which doesn't reveal the IP of the sender.

-MZ

Madness

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Activity: 644

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My goal is becaming a billionaire.

Quote from: Amph on February 16, 2015, 04:18:03 AM

you trace it by simply checking backward, the address, but mixer could be a problem(never use one, don't know how strong the mix is)

Still didn't understand to be honest , what do you mean by checking Backward ? I don't even get how it's possible to get someones IP just from a Bitcoin Adress .

~ Madness

Amph

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you trace it by simply checking backward, the address, but mixer could be a problem(never use one, don't know how strong the mix is)

Madness

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 500

My goal is becaming a billionaire.

Hi,

Alright , so I was reading some threads about BTER (Chinese-based exchange website) which got hacked yesterday and they lost about 7170 BTC (~1.7 Million USD ).
Some people said that the hacker won't really do much with the Bitcoin because if he start using them , they will be able to trace him ? How is that even possible is it possible to trace Bitcoin (Sender , receiver IP's) , I sometimes see a Map on Blockchain.info but not sure what is it for to be honest .

So how it's possible to trace Bitcoin and is using Tor with Bitcoin Core or any other wallet will prevent such a things ? if it dosen't prevent that then why some people are using it
Any answers are highly appreciated , also it's an Open discussion , feel free to post whatever you want .

~ Madness

Topic: Possible to trace Bitcoin - Why using Tor ? (Read 1714 times)