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Topic: Praxis for PoS handling of chain reorganisation? (Read 159 times)

legendary
Activity: 3500
Merit: 6320
Crypto Swap Exchange
February 02, 2023, 07:27:05 AM
#7
Thanks for the tip link. Right now I'm mostly concerned with mined blocks (but no longer part of the longest chain).

In the end, transactions do not just disappear.

I wish we could be absolutely certain of this, then we wouldn't ever require more than 1 confirmation, or even PoW at all  Smiley

For small amounts, 1 confirmation seems to be commonly accepted.

I realise that it's uncommon, thanks to your link and some more research I can confirm that the number of "extinct" blocks dropped from several per year to only 2 in 2019, and actually none since then.

Unfortunately I can't build my system based on hope alone. How do existing payment systems handle the situation when a transaction in a previously confirmed block actually disappears (perhaps because of a malicious actor trying to double spend)?

Once again it depends on the payment system and what you are doing.
Some examples :

With coinex after 1 conformation I can trade on their platform with the funds, but I can't withdraw anything I traded for or the original coin until 6 confirms.

With Bitrefill if I DO NOT use RBF and a high enough fee it's either 1 confirm or at times 0 if it's for a small enough card since I have been using their system for a while.

For larger amounts it's 1 confirm with no RBF and high enough fee. BUT, we are talking about $10 to $50 gift cards, not sure if that is going to change for a $1000 amazon card for a new user.

shoppy.gg is usually 2 or 3 confirms.

If you are going to be gaming the network to doublespend the time and effort involved are going to be a lot more then a few dollars.

-Dave
copper member
Activity: 42
Merit: 67
Thanks for the tip link. Right now I'm mostly concerned with mined blocks (but no longer part of the longest chain).

In the end, transactions do not just disappear.

I wish we could be absolutely certain of this, then we wouldn't ever require more than 1 confirmation, or even PoW at all  Smiley

For small amounts, 1 confirmation seems to be commonly accepted.

I realise that it's uncommon, thanks to your link and some more research I can confirm that the number of "extinct" blocks dropped from several per year to only 2 in 2019, and actually none since then.

Unfortunately I can't build my system based on hope alone. How do existing payment systems handle the situation when a transaction in a previously confirmed block actually disappears (perhaps because of a malicious actor trying to double spend)?

legendary
Activity: 3500
Merit: 6320
Crypto Swap Exchange
Thanks! For both the link and the sentiment.
Am I reading the link right, or have I smoked too much?
Not a single block rejected for four (4) years?

Take a look here: https://forkmonitor.info/feeds/stale_candidates/btc.rss
What I posted earlier were orphans, this link is for what happens when 2 pools find a block at just about the same time and it becomes a race to see who wins.

Either way it's the same for the people transacting.

Both blocks have your transaction = no change
One block (winner) has it the looser does not = no change
One block (looser) has it the winner does not = that TX will be in the next block (give or take depending on space) slightly longer wait.

In the end, transactions do not just disappear.

-Dave
copper member
Activity: 42
Merit: 67
Thanks! For both the link and the sentiment.
Am I reading the link right, or have I smoked too much?
Not a single block rejected for four (4) years?
legendary
Activity: 3500
Merit: 6320
Crypto Swap Exchange
https://bitcoinchain.com/block_explorer/orphaned

It's not something to be worried about.

More then likely if you have a TX in a block that gets orphaned / lost it's going to be in the next black anyway.
If you are selling a car, you wait for more then 1 block.
If you are selling a cup of coffee, you are probably not waiting for a confirm anyway.
If you are shipping something then it does not matter since it's not leaving at that moment.
If you are selling something online with digital delivery then they just have to wait for that 2nd confirmation if it's expensive.

-Dave
copper member
Activity: 42
Merit: 67
bump
copper member
Activity: 42
Merit: 67
Are there any best practices to handle reorganisations, from the point of a merchant accepting BCT for web purchases?

Also, could it be that some kind forum member could point me to some statistics of historical reorganisations, showing f.x. empirical frequency of orphaned blocks, preferrably cathegorised on #confirmations, and perhaps even with a time axis, in case there's a trend? Maybe there already exists some reliable likelihood estimator, as a function of #confirmations?

I apologise if this is posted in the wrong place. The Trading sub seemed a bit non-technical.

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