Prof Franz Hörmann most brilliant 15 minutes TED Talk

bitdraw

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Quote from: Robert Paulson on August 20, 2014, 03:57:26 PM

Quote from: odolvlobo on August 18, 2014, 01:55:21 AM

Quote from: Pente on August 17, 2014, 05:20:38 PM

Nothing new for us, but glad to see it on a TED talk.

I often try to explain to family and friends that it is mathematically impossible for everyone to pay back all their bank loans, since ($Money_Created + $Interest) will always be greater than $Money_Created.

You should stop trying because you are wrong. It doesn't matter than MONEY + INTEREST > MONEY. As long as the value of all the assets is greater than the value of all the debts, then all debts can be repaid.

You are the one who is wrong.

the debt is denominated in fiat.
you can't repay a 10,000 USD loan with barrels of oil, you have to trade the oil for USD first in order to pay the debt.

hence because all fiat in existence is less than all debt in existence (because of the interest) and new fiat is only created by loaning it out and hence creating even more debt, the total debt can never be repaid.

not only that but if people don't take on more debt fast enough the debt grows faster than the fiat supply and eventually someone has to default on their debt.

you are right!

defaults are the only way we can keep our system alive because they actually destroy "invented" money including the interest.

LiteCoinGuy

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In Satoshi I Trust

most people will never understand that but at least a minority has a chance to understand it because of the internet Kiss

furlong

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Yyup, we need a Bitcoin talk explaining the fundamnetals and whatnot, so much people into TED talk these days.

BeeTeeSea

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Someone well versed should go and make a Bitcoin related TED talk.

Robert Paulson

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Quote from: dadugan on August 21, 2014, 08:22:24 AM

Quote from: hashman on August 21, 2014, 07:46:47 AM

Quote from: Zarathustra on August 20, 2014, 03:32:23 PM

Can not. As soon as debt is being repaid, the value of the assets collapses. Capitalism is Debitism.

You associate the word capitalism with fractional reserve banking and fiat currencies. Is this intentional?

Some people are quoting things they don't fully understand.

Fractional reserve is fine if it is fully backed by asset.

no it is not fine.
lending other people's money is theft regardless of if you have any assets you can sell.
you can't be sure what your assets will be worth tomorrow and the person who gave you their money for safekeeping didn't intend to take the risk of your assets being worthless.

dadugan

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Quote from: hashman on August 21, 2014, 07:46:47 AM

Quote from: Zarathustra on August 20, 2014, 03:32:23 PM

Can not. As soon as debt is being repaid, the value of the assets collapses. Capitalism is Debitism.

You associate the word capitalism with fractional reserve banking and fiat currencies. Is this intentional?

Some people are quoting things they don't fully understand.

Fractional reserve is fine if it is fully backed by asset.

hashman

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Quote from: Zarathustra on August 20, 2014, 03:32:23 PM

Can not. As soon as debt is being repaid, the value of the assets collapses. Capitalism is Debitism.

You associate the word capitalism with fractional reserve banking and fiat currencies. Is this intentional?

supermine

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Quite the shit talk, sorry to say. There is so much wrong and left out in that speech that I don't even start to complain. That guy does need to go back to ATTAC, Scientology or wherever he came from. Maybe his little playmobile economy runs on apples and oranges, but the real world system is far more complex.

Robert Paulson

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Quote from: odolvlobo on August 18, 2014, 01:55:21 AM

Quote from: Pente on August 17, 2014, 05:20:38 PM

Nothing new for us, but glad to see it on a TED talk.

I often try to explain to family and friends that it is mathematically impossible for everyone to pay back all their bank loans, since ($Money_Created + $Interest) will always be greater than $Money_Created.

You should stop trying because you are wrong. It doesn't matter than MONEY + INTEREST > MONEY. As long as the value of all the assets is greater than the value of all the debts, then all debts can be repaid.

You are the one who is wrong.

the debt is denominated in fiat.
you can't repay a 10,000 USD loan with barrels of oil, you have to trade the oil for USD first in order to pay the debt.

hence because all fiat in existence is less than all debt in existence (because of the interest) and new fiat is only created by loaning it out and hence creating even more debt, the total debt can never be repaid.

not only that but if people don't take on more debt fast enough the debt grows faster than the fiat supply and eventually someone has to default on their debt.

Zarathustra

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Quote from: odolvlobo on August 18, 2014, 01:55:21 AM

Quote from: Pente on August 17, 2014, 05:20:38 PM

Nothing new for us, but glad to see it on a TED talk.

I often try to explain to family and friends that it is mathematically impossible for everyone to pay back all their bank loans, since ($Money_Created + $Interest) will always be greater than $Money_Created.

You should stop trying because you are wrong. It doesn't matter than MONEY + INTEREST > MONEY. As long as the value of all the assets is greater than the value of all the debts, then all debts can be repaid.

Can not. As soon as debt is being repaid, the value of the assets collapses. Capitalism is Debitism.

Quote

On the other hand, there might be an issue with the U.S. paying off all of its debt because dollars represent that debt and extinguishing the debt would eliminate nearly all of the dollars in existence.

Yes. No debt - no money.

herzmeister

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Hörmann has been known in German alternative economy movements already for a while, and he actually proposes less a crypto-currency but rather something like the Zeitgeist/Venus Project ideas combined with Ripple (the original concept from 2004, i.e. a conceptually peer-to-peer LETS/time banking system within a social network, though without any mention of an actual technically decentralized implementation).

Quote from: Tusk on August 17, 2014, 01:57:35 PM

Allegedly banned

Bullshit, nothing's banned. That's TEDx, not TED. Anyone can set up a TEDx event all over the world. There are zillions of those. If the original TED somehow link and promote some of them or not is another question.

Febo

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Quote from: Tusk on August 17, 2014, 01:57:35 PM

Allegedly banned, but could be just to hype it, never the lass a very good presentation that highlights the failures of our current economic models of placing money at the back end and and resource distribution at the front. He argues that with cryptocurrencies we are now able to place currency at the front (making it multidimensional) and distribution of resources back end. Very Interesting idea definitely worth sharing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZBRJU6YLtY

this was shoot 3 years ago. You might say that is not that far back. But at that time BTC was worth 3$. lol

But he have nice idea for an alt.

Tusk

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Quote from: Pente on August 17, 2014, 05:20:38 PM

Nothing new for us, but glad to see it on a TED talk.

I often try to explain to family and friends that it is mathematically impossible for everyone to pay back all their bank loans, since ($Money_Created + $Interest) will always be greater than $Money_Created.

For me interesting point he makes is Crypto 2.0 allows for direct barter, unlike our current models where we have a base currency and then apply its value to everything, Today we can exchange goods and services directly in the cloud allowing them to determine their own value independently. By merely using tokens to represent them and not an intermediary currency they will float independently.

Good examples are LTB Coin on counterparty
DogeParty is very new but should be interesting to watch how game tokens etc will be traded independently of any intermediary currency this will be a new crypto implementation of the barter system.

negafen

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Quote from: odolvlobo on August 18, 2014, 01:55:21 AM

Quote from: Pente on August 17, 2014, 05:20:38 PM

Nothing new for us, but glad to see it on a TED talk.

I often try to explain to family and friends that it is mathematically impossible for everyone to pay back all their bank loans, since ($Money_Created + $Interest) will always be greater than $Money_Created.

You should stop trying because you are wrong. It doesn't matter than MONEY + INTEREST > MONEY. As long as the value of all the assets is greater than the value of all the debts, then all debts can be repaid.

On the other hand, there might be an issue with the U.S. paying off all of its debt because dollars represent that debt and extinguishing the debt would eliminate nearly all of the dollars in existence.

The production and asset of a country can be used to settle debt if there isn't enough fiat in place to settle it. Fractional reserve system isn't as bad as some make it out to be.

odolvlobo

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Quote from: Pente on August 17, 2014, 05:20:38 PM

Nothing new for us, but glad to see it on a TED talk.

I often try to explain to family and friends that it is mathematically impossible for everyone to pay back all their bank loans, since ($Money_Created + $Interest) will always be greater than $Money_Created.

You should stop trying because you are wrong. It doesn't matter than MONEY + INTEREST > MONEY. As long as the value of all the assets is greater than the value of all the debts, then all debts can be repaid.

On the other hand, there might be an issue with the U.S. paying off all of its debt because dollars represent that debt and extinguishing the debt would eliminate nearly all of the dollars in existence.

Pente

hero member

Activity: 528

Merit: 527

Nothing new for us, but glad to see it on a TED talk.

I often try to explain to family and friends that it is mathematically impossible for everyone to pay back all their bank loans, since ($Money_Created + $Interest) will always be greater than $Money_Created.

Tusk

sr. member

Activity: 444

Merit: 260

Allegedly banned, but could be just to hype it, never the lass a very good presentation that highlights the failures of our current economic models of placing money at the back end and and resource distribution at the front. He argues that with cryptocurrencies we are now able to place currency at the front (making it multidimensional) and distribution of resources back end. Very Interesting idea definitely worth sharing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZBRJU6YLtY

Topic: Prof Franz Hörmann most brilliant 15 minutes TED Talk (Read 2259 times)