Topic: Progress? We're waiting... (Read 3580 times)

It's now roughly a decade and 10 days since the idea to build a new forum software was conceived. Bitcoin is 2,981 blocks (as of now) away to it fourth halving event which is happening some day next month, and yet we have no hope as to when the oldest and biggest cryptocurrency forum will eventually migrate to the new 10-year-old open source forum software.

Please Admin, don't let a number of us die before we see Bitcointalk on the new forum software 😬

I registered around the same time and also met the same talk about the new forum software being ready "soon". Comparing the talk about it then with now, it's obvious a lot of users are no longer anticipating it and have resigned to the fact that it would my be ready soon.

Let's give it the next 5 years and see what progress we make.

There are so many smart people on the forum. Why can't they complete the beta-testing of epochtalk? Busy with signatures campaigns?

Oh, what a world, what a world

There are so many smart people on the forum. Why can't they complete the beta-testing of epochtalk? Busy with signatures campaigns?
Oh, what a world, what a world

I haven't been here in years and the software still isn't running? Lol. Admins fumbled the bag here big time.

Web server is down Error code 521

Web server is down Error code 521

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beta.bitcointalk.org was run for a couple of years, but virtually nobody used it. It was too boring. I'd ideally like people to actually try using Epochtalk for various things that they find fun/interesting. Maybe try a more restrictive moderation style, maybe make it more niche-focused, maybe try adding some crazy features, etc. If people actually try to use it for real things, then the real deficiencies will be found.
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Really? Is beta.bitcointalk.org legit the latest version?

I haven't been here in years and the software still isn't running? Lol. Admins fumbled the bag here big time.

From a pragmatic perspective, could you elaborate on the specific 'demands' that this forum presently fails to address for you? What functionalities or features do you find lacking in the current forum software that you want to see implemented?

I rather they take their time and make sure it works well, and it's secure, work is progressing on GitHub so not that they are not working on it either.

So what was the point of spending lots of bitcoins in developing a new forum software if the transition was going to be a problem?

We live in changing times. Change is inevitable. Which is why when you are renting a place that doesn't seem to suit your demands and lifestyle needs as you grow, you "painfully" transfer to a new place, the whole process may be bothersome, but it's worth it at the end.

It is essential to consider the potential ramifications of implementing forum software changes at this stage. The majority of our users have developed a high degree of proficiency and comfort with the existing software, making a transition to a new forum with unfamiliar features a potentially vexing endeavor.

It is noteworthy that those advocating for the new forum software primarily do so on a principled basis rather than practical necessity. Consequently, the prospect of discontent and disruption among a substantial portion of the user base looms large, underscoring the need for a deliberate and judicious approach to ensure a harmonious transition that respects the established user preferences and expectations.

I think that would be a big shot in the foot as the majority of the community love the forum the way it is.

Does bitcointalk.org have an owner or how development can be so dead?

Does bitcointalk.org have an owner or how development can be so dead?
I mean it can't be impossible to upgrade/merge it into something better, even changing some HTML/CSS would help to improve the user experience.
Never seen such a big forum that neglected xD

Hahaha
Yeah I meant the "menu" with the small bar and the general appearance and usability, I mean it's crazy for such a big forum like bitcointalk.org that it runs of software from 2006-2009

There! I fixed it for you. 

~
Just look at top left right of the site, I mean it's 2023

The software is substantially complete. The main period of development was a while ago; the current work is mainly just maintenance & relatively minor improvements. Try running it yourself and you'll find that it's working, fast, and nearly feature-complete.

The things blocking a transition from the current software to the new software are:
 - There hasn't been enough testing. I think that immediately after transition, a variety of small missed features, bugs, and performance issues would crop up. As a result, if the transition happened now (which is technically possible!), I'd expect the post-transition user experience to be poor for months while these things are fixed, which I don't want.
 - I am the only bitcointalk.org sysadmin and on-demand programmer, and I'm used to the current software. Furthermore, I need to frequently make changes to the current software, but each change I make might require alterations to Epochtalk, which is problematic.
 - The current PHP software, while ugly and sub-optimal in many ways, performs well, especially since I have extensively modified the backend to add features and improve performance. So I don't feel much urgency.
 - The data-transition procedure still has a few known minor bugs.
 
We continue to work on these issues. I think that ultimately I may need to hire one or more full-time people, since a big problem is that the full transition is likely to create a ton of work which I won't be able to effectively handle alone.

The software is not vaporware (it's long existed in a runnable state, and is currently basically feature-complete), and is not abandoned (look at the git commit log). If anyone is unhappy with the progress, I invite them to take the Epochtalk code and create a competing forum with it; since they won't have to worry about the transition issues, they'd have a much easier time, and their testing will also end up helping us.

In short: If you want the software quicker, go run your own forum with it, and work to get any problems or missing features you find resolved via bug reports, etc. This would increase public interest, provide much-needed testing, and I might even hire you to work on bitcointalk.org when we're ready to do the final transition here.

So, right now, I think that the only way to get new forum software is if developers that are also active on this forum, decide to work on Epochtalk, improve it, add new features, do testing, etc and get a like/approve from theymos. Then, we may get a new forum software, before that, I think we have to just willingly use an old SMF.

I'll echo what I said many times before. Theymos wants us (the users) to test the forum software and when most of the bugs are fixed then maybe we can see it coming to life here...
For me, paid testers would do much more efficient work in a shorter time frame, but that's just me

I'll echo what I said many times before. Theymos wants us (the users) to test the forum software and when most of the bugs are fixed then maybe we can see it coming to life here...
For me, paid testers would do much more efficient work in a shorter time frame, but that's just me

It's been about 5 years since then, I'm close to 50 and I'm still waiting,

Man, feels like my Grand kids will be the ones to enjoy the new forum software that is, provided the tech behind its build isn't old by the time of it's release 

Man, feels like my Grand kids will be the ones to enjoy the new forum software that is, provided the tech behind its build isn't old by the time of it's release 

There are always updates in the #epochtalk channel from Bitcointalk Discord. And also very recent ones, so that should mean something is happening with the source code.
Or do I understand this wrong?

Just wondering when exactly the creation of the new forum software was started.

Somehow that doesn't make much sense but whatever floats your boat I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So does the latest version of SMF (the software currently being used here)...

It's worth noting that Epochtalk actually has a responsive design ^{[mobile-friendly]} and you can even try it from "here".

It's more accurate to say Wordpress is not secure enough by default. There's good reason why Wordpress is most popular option for blogging/personal website.

I read about the plans with the new software Epochtalk.
I acutally created a mobile phone friendly bitcoin Forum

it just looks better an all mobile devices. Let me know what you think.

I acutally created a mobile phone friendly bitcoin Forum

The design is quite simple, somehow similar to this fourm and it just looks better an all mobile devices. Let me know what you think.

Check this thread and very your account there > https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.54403124

Thank you.
I see there hasn't been a lot of activity there lately. Furthermore, Cryptios, a user account created specifically for the purpose (if I understood correctly) has not been active since the original post. I wonder if that project has been abandoned completely.

Where can I find the reported Coinbistro bugs? There have been no replies to the original thread.

I wonder why the roadmap was taken down

Epochtalk had a "roadmap" before, but at some point in 2020 ^{[or 2021]}, they removed that page ^{[you can still check some of its content from the following "archived version"]}.

Here you go:

• Quote from: SFR10 on September 21, 2021, 04:21:10 AM
  use "Coinbistro" to test and report bugs: Coinbistro.com - Epochtalk testing grounds
  

Here you go:

• Quote from: SFR10 on September 21, 2021, 04:21:10 AM
  use "Coinbistro" to test and report bugs: Coinbistro.com - Epochtalk testing grounds
  

Is there a roadmap?

Are there any things we, as a community, can do to help development?

Really? Is beta.bitcointalk.org legit the latest version? It's been 3 years and this is it? What is it being coded in... assembly?

If I remember correctly, the budget for the site was in the tens of thousands of BTC. At today's value, it'd probably be a $50MM bid. I'm thinking the admins were swindled in the bid... I think it should go back open or at least make a more open competition for the new software.

Edit: Found the source. It's freaking Javascript... that's why. Who would want that ungodly mess to manage? ew.

Edit2: https://github.com/epochtalk/epochtalk for those that can't google.

- The current PHP software, while ugly and sub-optimal in many ways, performs well, especially since I have extensively modified the backend to add features and improve performance. So I don't feel much urgency.

Hopefully with security in mind. It must be very tricky to run this ancient version of SMF on a security maintained PHP branche.

I'm sure there are plenty of people here who can code AngularJS (myself included), so can't we just code it collaboratively?

Why is it dragging for so long like this?

The last merged PR was in May...

I guess a roadmap would be useful. I'm sure there are plenty of people here who can code AngularJS (myself included), so can't we just code it collaboratively?

With some guidance of what needs to be done from whoever is in charge of this project maybe we could speed up the development.

... let's see maybe someone here in the forum has some clear details.

I second that. In just a few months, we will be wrapping up 2021. What is taking so long?
Or have we given up on the whole idea?

Putting this up on top, interested to hear some news our new forum, as we are almost halfway to end this year now, maybe we can get something out from theymos? 😅 still cool, just curious...

PROGRESS?...

The choice may have been different if we were to start the project now. But I believe that interfaces are what matters. Also, we kind of didn't have a choice on the frontend. If you would like to see, our migration layer and database schema design is written in Elixir and Ecto. As for JS, there are definitely shortcomings but performance-wise, Node is good enough on the server side for the time being.

Do you have any specific questions?

The upgrade is an very easy process, it will take probably under 1 hour with the actual database size.

Whatever is the development of new forum, you should definitely update the SMF in the mean time.

The SMF team stopped supporting the 1.1.xx branch, which this forum use now.
Not even the security updates.
https://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=559497.0
Upgrade to 2.0.x branch, it already has built-in lot of demands listed in here.
The upgrade is an very easy process, it will take probably under 1 hour with the actual database size.

...
Just because it's hard work, that doesn't mean it's good work. Given the time frame of the project, and the apparent budget, the progress should be better. Not to mention that there are forum softwares out there that meet the needs to begin with. The theme of the new forum is trash. Plain and simple....

You have no idea of the number of customizations Theymos has created.  The upgrade would take weeks, if it was even possible.  :/

You have no idea of the number of customizations Theymos has created.  The upgrade would take weeks, if it was even possible.  :/

The upgrade is an very easy process, it will take probably under 1 hour with the actual database size.

Really? Is beta.bitcointalk.org legit the latest version? It's been 3 years and this is it? What is it being coded in... assembly?

If I remember correctly, the budget for the site was in the tens of thousands of BTC. At today's value, it'd probably be a $50MM bid. I'm thinking the admins were swindled in the bid... I think it should go back open or at least make a more open competition for the new software.

Edit: Found the source. It's freaking Javascript... that's why. Who would want that ungodly mess to manage? ew.

Edit2: https://github.com/epochtalk/epochtalk for those that can't google.

The choice may have been different if we were to start the project now. But I believe that interfaces are what matters. Also, we kind of didn't have a choice on the frontend. If you would like to see, our migration layer and database schema design is written in Elixir and Ecto. As for JS, there are definitely shortcomings but performance-wise, Node is good enough on the server side for the time being.

Do you have any specific questions?

What is the rush? Not like there is no Bitcointalk available? Forum is here and up and running.

Also not that there aren't any users on here as it is... Over 1.3 million accounts and counting.

I rather they take their time and make sure it works well, and it's secure, work is progressing on GitHub so not that they are not working on it either.

Give time to time, a forum with so many users can't just be switched over just like that.

I'm confident once ready we will all see the hardwork that went into it.

What is the rush? Not like there is no Bitcointalk available? Forum is here and up and running.

Also not that there aren't any users on here as it is... Over 1.3 million accounts and counting.

I rather they take their time and make sure it works well, and it's secure, work is progressing on GitHub so not that they are not working on it either.

Give time to time, a forum with so many users can't just be switched over just like that.

Yes, instead of smooth talking us  , why aren't you simply giving an ETA of the new forum software? It's been almost years due now.

I feel like by the time this is going to be released, it will be outdated again.

Why not use Invision Pro Suite?

Not only has it got an amazing amount of history behind it (originally vBulletin), and is so incredibly powerful. I've been able to code in a points system, create all forms of event triggers and code in actions/conditions to create automated processes for certain administration tasks. Always updated, constantly bench tested, used as a commercial product, etc.

It has so much potential, yet the project was to create something from scratch? Are the people building it at least experienced in building forum products??

Check out what I was able to create within a few weeks: https://forum.stake.com/

Look at the potential! You have complete control over the template and formatting of layouts. Extend the API, extend the class/functions/objects, basically do anything you want.

The choice may have been different if we were to start the project now. But I believe that interfaces are what matters. Also, we kind of didn't have a choice on the frontend. If you would like to see, our migration layer and database schema design is written in Elixir and Ecto. As for JS, there are definitely shortcomings but performance-wise, Node is good enough on the server side for the time being.

Do you have any specific questions?

Epochtalk is extremely complicated especially on the admin side of things. That includes moderation/accountability, etc. For comparison, forums like Discourse have been in development a lot longer than us.

Take a look at the issues we have on the Github and try it out or something. Note, that the dependencies that are being developed are also under the entire epochtalk organization.

I feel like a broken record because these questions have been answered over and over. Apologies for not having anything more central and easier to digest than the Github repos.

Really? Is beta.bitcointalk.org legit the latest version? It's been 3 years and this is it? What is it being coded in... assembly?

If I remember correctly, the budget for the site was in the tens of thousands of BTC. At today's value, it'd probably be a $50MM bid. I'm thinking the admins were swindled in the bid... I think it should go back open or at least make a more open competition for the new software.

Edit: Found the source. It's freaking Javascript... that's why. Who would want that ungodly mess to manage? ew.

Edit2: https://github.com/epochtalk/epochtalk for those that can't google.