Proof that the USA sytem of consumption is dumb

Mometaskers

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Quote from: Basmic on June 05, 2017, 06:54:34 AM

Quote from: Mometaskers on June 05, 2017, 06:37:42 AM

Consumption is good for the economy but only if it was really paid for. The problem is that people go around swiping plastic, using money they haven't earned yet. You know people, they don't always think ahead of the future and when you make it easy for them to just consume, they do.

I'm not from the US but what I got from it was that the banks kept giving home loans to people who probably wouldn't be able to afford it. Coz, you know, American Dream. I actually watched a video about how banks somehow "bundled" loans and "sold" them. I found it confusing but just the way they described it, you know it won't end well.

As expected, when those people defaulted on their loans, the house of cards fell apart.

The house of cards falls apart. The house will remain and those who need them can buy them cheaper. When loans to stimulate the economy is not a house of cards. It is bad when the government takes the credit for payment of benefits and pensions. This is a road to nowhere.

The house will remain, ready to be snagged by the rich while the people go homeless. I know, some shouldn't have been given home loans to begin with but just that the system has been so lenient meant they'll pull down everyone with them.

That loans can be sold by the bank actually sound unbelievable even if I don't know the economics behind it. What's more frustrating was the banks have to be injected with taxpayer's money just to stay afloat even if they started this mess to begin with. And they had the nerve to go to Washington on private jets to beg for money, ugh.

darkangel11

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Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody

Quote from: ?? on ??

Obviously you didn't do enough research to find out that most of the Paris attackers were either French or Belgian born. It's common for a terrorist born in a Western country to mysteriously "convert to Islam", change their name and more in order to commit their attacks. This kind of illogical hatred and victim mentality is exactly what results in that rise of terrorism.

They didn't convert! The attackers were Muslims for generations, they came from Muslim families and were the children of immigrants from Muslim countries!
It doesn't matter that some of them had Belgian passports, or French citizenship. It takes just 5 years to get a citizenship and passport of almost any European country, so it's not that hard.

Just to prove a point:
Salah Abdeslam was born on 15 September 1989 in Brussels, Belgium. His parents are immigrants who were living in Bouyafar, a small village in northern Morocco, prior to emigration. Though the Abdeslams lived in Belgium from the 1960s, they were all French nationals, having acquired French nationality from the time the parents lived in Algeria.

Abdelhamid Abaaoud, was born on 8 April 1987 in Anderlecht, a suburb of Brussels, Belgium. He was the son of Omar Abaaoud, who emigrated to Belgium from Morocco in 1975.

Oh, and let's not forget that 2 other attackers were from Iraq. Maybe they were the ones that "mysteriously converted"?

craked5

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 529

Quote from: protokol on June 06, 2017, 02:54:32 PM

OK I'm just gonna say that the system we have in place at the moment is not true capitalism.

It's a sort of "crony capitalism" where certain corporations become incredibly powerful because they can control the market to some extent. They collude with each other to lock out smaller, more innovational companies. ANd this is mainly because banks and financial companies wield so much power, and that the bigger your company is, the easier it is for it to make money.

Example: Amazon, it has the capital to make losses in some countries, while it uses tax loopholes so it can pay zero tax in other countries. This make's it almost impossible for competitors to combat it.

Banks themselves are another good example, they grind money away from the poor, and put their capital into funds that will make them serious money, that the poor people have no way of accessing.

Bitcoin can change all that, if enough people get involved...

True sir.
The question is though: can capitalism be implemented?

In the same way that people say that communism always leads to dictatorship, one could argue that capitalism always leads to complete monopoles of a few companies. In capitalism the idea is that money produces money. hence people and companies with money will only get richer and will only crash more their competitors.

I see a way to make communism work without falling into a dictatorship but I don't see one to make capitalism work;
Bitcoin is a good step but that doesn't change anything fundamental: btc ownership will only produce more btc and big companies will only continue to get bigger monopoles and more and more powers!

Lancusters

sr. member

Activity: 630

Merit: 263

Quote from: audaciousbeing on June 06, 2017, 04:14:44 PM

Quote from: craked5 on June 04, 2017, 01:19:23 PM

Strong figures:
http://time.com/8740/federal-reserve-debt-bankrate-consumers-credit-card/

The economic model of USA is: buy buy buy buy buy buy buy and maybe think a bit after
That's the reason of the 2008 crisis, Americans were pushed by banks and real estate agents to take 3 times the debt they could afford.

Well people are continuing to do it.
I don't know when it's going to hit, but it'll hit reaaaaaally hard.

Stop with this stupid overconsumption. Just stop. Capitalism isn't working, stop it before it's too late.

Even if the bank is encouraging people to get more loans I believe you are not under compulsion to go beyond your means as this boils down to the issue of self control in terms of finances which is obvious what Americans are lacking. But capitalism does not mean over consumption as they are completely opposite from my point of view while one seeks to ensure individuals reach their maximum capacity, the other is borne out of quest for what is beyond your reach.

When you take in banks, consumer or mortgage loans this means that you spend money not yet earned. This in a sense supports the economy because it stimulates demand, but you are in the area of risk and can be bankrupt. So my opinion is that credit is evil. I never take money.

craked5

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 529

Quote from: coolcoinz on June 06, 2017, 01:07:11 PM

Quote from: craked5 on June 04, 2017, 03:56:38 PM

Dude, stop spamming your signature campaign and read posts...
I'm talking about the debts of CITIZENS. About the way of life of Americans.
How the fact that in order to run their economy the citizens have to take so much debt that they simply can't repay it and get everything they have is taken by banks.

Don't blame me for your lack of understanding of basic economics. I know you Frenchies have trouble understanding how the world works, that's why you voted for allowing Muslims into your country and couldn't stop supporting the idea even after numerous terrorist attacks on your soil. Your new president has the guts to demand that every EU country participates in this failure of a project, and you come here complaining that US citizens are buying too much.

Sure because saying that debt of individuals towards banks don't have to be repaid is clearly a good understanding of the economy xD
And bringing Muslims here clearly makes sense!

Quote from: Okurkabinladin on June 06, 2017, 01:15:04 PM

Quote from: craked5 on June 04, 2017, 01:19:23 PM

Strong figures:
http://time.com/8740/federal-reserve-debt-bankrate-consumers-credit-card/

The economic model of USA is: buy buy buy buy buy buy buy and maybe think a bit after
That's the reason of the 2008 crisis, Americans were pushed by banks and real estate agents to take 3 times the debt they could afford.

Well people are continuing to do it.
I don't know when it's going to hit, but it'll hit reaaaaaally hard.

Stop with this stupid overconsumption. Just stop. Capitalism isn't working, stop it before it's too late.

As opposed to what? Communism?

Or Islamism?

What is your angle here? Capitalism doesnt force you to buy anything, Mr. Agitator. It is your choice. Same choice that brought you here of all places under the sun. If you cannot live with freedom to decide where your money is spent, that is legitimate, but dont preach to others, that they should accept place on Animal Farm too.

Ok so if you're in a system that makes 95% of the population making the wrong decisions what do you do? You blame the people or the system?
If I give you freedom to chose between option A and B but I use billions in advertisement propaganda media and false education to make you chose option A, is it still freedom?

And I'll let you know that for one communism isn't what you're showing (that's just usual dictatorial crap, nothing to do with communism) and that for two islamism isn't an economical theory.

BullCreek

newbie

Activity: 26

Merit: 0

competition to strive and the money and military to protect the infrastructure that competition strives in is the key components of capitalism.

its like literally why there is peace in the world and why we are communicating at lightspeed in any corner of the world.

comon bruh.

audaciousbeing

hero member

Activity: 1330

Merit: 569

Quote from: craked5 on June 04, 2017, 01:19:23 PM

Strong figures:
http://time.com/8740/federal-reserve-debt-bankrate-consumers-credit-card/

The economic model of USA is: buy buy buy buy buy buy buy and maybe think a bit after
That's the reason of the 2008 crisis, Americans were pushed by banks and real estate agents to take 3 times the debt they could afford.

Well people are continuing to do it.
I don't know when it's going to hit, but it'll hit reaaaaaally hard.

Stop with this stupid overconsumption. Just stop. Capitalism isn't working, stop it before it's too late.

Even if the bank is encouraging people to get more loans I believe you are not under compulsion to go beyond your means as this boils down to the issue of self control in terms of finances which is obvious what Americans are lacking. But capitalism does not mean over consumption as they are completely opposite from my point of view while one seeks to ensure individuals reach their maximum capacity, the other is borne out of quest for what is beyond your reach.

protokol

legendary

Activity: 1188

Merit: 1016

OK I'm just gonna say that the system we have in place at the moment is not true capitalism.

It's a sort of "crony capitalism" where certain corporations become incredibly powerful because they can control the market to some extent. They collude with each other to lock out smaller, more innovational companies. ANd this is mainly because banks and financial companies wield so much power, and that the bigger your company is, the easier it is for it to make money.

Example: Amazon, it has the capital to make losses in some countries, while it uses tax loopholes so it can pay zero tax in other countries. This make's it almost impossible for competitors to combat it.

Banks themselves are another good example, they grind money away from the poor, and put their capital into funds that will make them serious money, that the poor people have no way of accessing.

Bitcoin can change all that, if enough people get involved...

Okurkabinladin

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 506

Quote from: craked5 on June 04, 2017, 01:19:23 PM

Strong figures:
http://time.com/8740/federal-reserve-debt-bankrate-consumers-credit-card/

The economic model of USA is: buy buy buy buy buy buy buy and maybe think a bit after
That's the reason of the 2008 crisis, Americans were pushed by banks and real estate agents to take 3 times the debt they could afford.

Well people are continuing to do it.
I don't know when it's going to hit, but it'll hit reaaaaaally hard.

Stop with this stupid overconsumption. Just stop. Capitalism isn't working, stop it before it's too late.

As opposed to what? Communism?

Or Islamism?

What is your angle here? Capitalism doesnt force you to buy anything, Mr. Agitator. It is your choice. Same choice that brought you here of all places under the sun. If you cannot live with freedom to decide where your money is spent, that is legitimate, but dont preach to others, that they should accept place on Animal Farm too.

coolcoinz

legendary

Activity: 2814

Merit: 1192

Quote from: craked5 on June 04, 2017, 03:56:38 PM

Dude, stop spamming your signature campaign and read posts...
I'm talking about the debts of CITIZENS. About the way of life of Americans.
How the fact that in order to run their economy the citizens have to take so much debt that they simply can't repay it and get everything they have is taken by banks.

Don't blame me for your lack of understanding of basic economics. I know you Frenchies have trouble understanding how the world works, that's why you voted for allowing Muslims into your country and couldn't stop supporting the idea even after numerous terrorist attacks on your soil. Your new president has the guts to demand that every EU country participates in this failure of a project, and you come here complaining that US citizens are buying too much.

merchantofzeny

sr. member

Activity: 1036

Merit: 279

Quote from: Basmic on June 05, 2017, 06:54:34 AM

Quote from: Mometaskers on June 05, 2017, 06:37:42 AM

Consumption is good for the economy but only if it was really paid for. The problem is that people go around swiping plastic, using money they haven't earned yet. You know people, they don't always think ahead of the future and when you make it easy for them to just consume, they do.

I'm not from the US but what I got from it was that the banks kept giving home loans to people who probably wouldn't be able to afford it. Coz, you know, American Dream. I actually watched a video about how banks somehow "bundled" loans and "sold" them. I found it confusing but just the way they described it, you know it won't end well.

As expected, when those people defaulted on their loans, the house of cards fell apart.

The house of cards falls apart. The house will remain and those who need them can buy them cheaper. When loans to stimulate the economy is not a house of cards. It is bad when the government takes the credit for payment of benefits and pensions. This is a road to nowhere.

I guess the problem here is when the cards fell, they brought many down with them. There was widespread unemployment after the fall. People got kicked out of their homes and being now jobless, can't afford a cheaper one.

Only people that have multiple real estate properties across every economic class benefited from this. "Can't afford the house I'm renting you? I can move you to a cheaper one."

Basmic

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Activity: 406

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Quote from: Mometaskers on June 05, 2017, 06:37:42 AM

Consumption is good for the economy but only if it was really paid for. The problem is that people go around swiping plastic, using money they haven't earned yet. You know people, they don't always think ahead of the future and when you make it easy for them to just consume, they do.

I'm not from the US but what I got from it was that the banks kept giving home loans to people who probably wouldn't be able to afford it. Coz, you know, American Dream. I actually watched a video about how banks somehow "bundled" loans and "sold" them. I found it confusing but just the way they described it, you know it won't end well.

As expected, when those people defaulted on their loans, the house of cards fell apart.

The house of cards falls apart. The house will remain and those who need them can buy them cheaper. When loans to stimulate the economy is not a house of cards. It is bad when the government takes the credit for payment of benefits and pensions. This is a road to nowhere.

Mometaskers

hero member

Activity: 1764

Merit: 584

Consumption is good for the economy but only if it was really paid for. The problem is that people go around swiping plastic, using money they haven't earned yet. You know people, they don't always think ahead of the future and when you make it easy for them to just consume, they do.

I'm not from the US but what I got from it was that the banks kept giving home loans to people who probably wouldn't be able to afford it. Coz, you know, American Dream. I actually watched a video about how banks somehow "bundled" loans and "sold" them. I found it confusing but just the way they described it, you know it won't end well.

As expected, when those people defaulted on their loans, the house of cards fell apart.

craked5

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 529

Quote from: coolcoinz on June 04, 2017, 02:03:03 PM

I wouldn't worry about debt. Debt isn't real, it's just figures in the banking system.
Debt cannot be paid back, it's impossible. I'm not even talking about the USA. Iceland nullified its debt and nothing happened. They knew they were unable to pay it and the interest was constantly growing, so the only way out was to ignore it.

Dude, stop spamming your signature campaign and read posts...
I'm talking about the debts of CITIZENS. About the way of life of Americans.
How the fact that in order to run their economy the citizens have to take so much debt that they simply can't repay it and get everything they have is taken by banks.

joebrook

sr. member

Activity: 644

Merit: 259

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I believe that the USA system of consumption is what makes the country great, the more people buy, the more they pay taxes and that's what makes the country gain more money and it's the banks who caused the financial crisis not the consumers.

coolcoinz

legendary

Activity: 2814

Merit: 1192

I wouldn't worry about debt. Debt isn't real, it's just figures in the banking system.
Debt cannot be paid back, it's impossible. I'm not even talking about the USA. Iceland nullified its debt and nothing happened. They knew they were unable to pay it and the interest was constantly growing, so the only way out was to ignore it.

craked5

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 529

Strong figures:
http://time.com/8740/federal-reserve-debt-bankrate-consumers-credit-card/

The economic model of USA is: buy buy buy buy buy buy buy and maybe think a bit after
That's the reason of the 2008 crisis, Americans were pushed by banks and real estate agents to take 3 times the debt they could afford.

Well people are continuing to do it.
I don't know when it's going to hit, but it'll hit reaaaaaally hard.

Stop with this stupid overconsumption. Just stop. Capitalism isn't working, stop it before it's too late.

Topic: Proof that the USA sytem of consumption is dumb (Read 698 times)