Proposed Bill Would Give Americans $2,000 A Month Until Economy Recovers

exstasie

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Quote from: DooMAD on July 17, 2020, 10:54:41 AM

Quote from: exstasie on July 17, 2020, 05:56:25 AM

Right, QE infinity. What could go wrong?

It may not be a big problem in terms of a currency collapse or something like that. I'm talking more so about Japan's anemic growth over the past few decades.

But there are some economic arguments suggesting that chasing growth for the sake of growth is a pointless exercise.

Ultimately, we have to ask which is of greater importance:

That some big, arbitrary number is slightly bigger than it was last year?
Or that the economy actually serves the purpose of supporting the people and businesses within that economy?

Output is directly related to wage levels, unemployment levels. Stagnant growth means falling wages, rising unemployment, etc. Not exactly an ideal situation for the population. Real wages in Japan are down 13% since 1997, if you can believe that. That's jaw dropping to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decade_(Japan)#Effects

I don't want to get into a philosophical discussion about Austrian vs. Keynesian economics here. That requires a much deeper dive. I'm just talking about the immediate economic effects of a "lost decade" scenario.

DooMAD

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Quote from: exstasie on July 17, 2020, 05:56:25 AM

Quote from: abhiseshakana on July 15, 2020, 10:44:46 AM

As long as America can manage debt like Japan, it won't be a big problem. Like Japan, government debt securities are mostly held by domestic and not foreign parties.

Right, QE infinity. What could go wrong?

It may not be a big problem in terms of a currency collapse or something like that. I'm talking more so about Japan's anemic growth over the past few decades.

But there are some economic arguments suggesting that chasing growth for the sake of growth is a pointless exercise.

Ultimately, we have to ask which is of greater importance:

That some big, arbitrary number is slightly bigger than it was last year?
Or that the economy actually serves the purpose of supporting the people and businesses within that economy?

exstasie

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Quote from: abhiseshakana on July 15, 2020, 10:44:46 AM

Quote from: exstasie on July 14, 2020, 03:21:49 AM

The difference now is the national debt vs. GDP has already surpassed the height of WWII, and that happened back in April. Where does it end? The obvious worry is the US is going to follow in Japan's footsteps.

As long as America can manage debt like Japan, it won't be a big problem. Like Japan, government debt securities are mostly held by domestic and not foreign parties.

Right, QE infinity. What could go wrong?

It may not be a big problem in terms of a currency collapse or something like that. I'm talking more so about Japan's anemic growth over the past few decades.

Vod

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UBI is the future, but I don't believe governments can afford it for a billion people in America yet. :/

Governments are still reliant on blanket taxes - so any payments would be temporary. To move to permanent UBI, the government needs to move to service fees and profit - make the people who USE the services pay for them (roads, school, etc).

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That was good to hear that a proposed bill to give out $2,000 as financial assistance for people affected by covid-19 pandemic will be implemented once it is passed as a bill. But that would still undergo a long term of process because knowing America to have the most number of cases which means most number of affected people as well and that only means many people are in need to be assisted by $2,000 for the next few months until their economy recovers. That was good to hear but seems impossible to make happen especially when it comes to funds. Imagine a lot of people might be just dependent on that financial aid because a lot of people are jobless as of the moment because of the implementing community quarantine.

The idea was good but the implementation seems to be impossible. Well, if there would be amendment with regards to the content of the proposed bill which would target only those that are directly affected and poorest of the poor, it might be possible to narrow down the number of people that is needed to be given by the financial assistance just like what our government did in our country. If that's the case, maybe it could be possible.

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Quote from: thesmallgod on July 14, 2020, 08:02:09 AM

Considering the numbers of people soliciting for money on gofundme in recent time to feed their family, I do not see anything wrong with it and I'm very sure the united state is abreast and capable of handling the cons of printing fiat to mitigate the effect of this global pandemic. If this go through, it could be another crypto rally as it has been noticed before that a lot of Americans use their stimulus package to buy crypto specifically on coinbase

Sure it is, because America is the most devastated country today as the infections are growing and the death toll continues to rise.

So basically people of US need funds to support their living until the pandemic totally stops and the job back to normal.

But of course they must check if the one who claims are legit and not just those people who's living in the street because of drug addictions .

yhiaali3

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I heard that the US government was giving 1,000$ at the beginning of the spread of the Corona virus, and now they have increased this aid to 2,000$. This sounds good at first sight, but as unemployment, turmoil, and the deterioration of the American economy increase, will the US government be able to pay more of this aid to the increasing numbers of unemployed?
Another matter, as the number of the unemployed increases, the American economy will stop slowly and the resources of the state treasury will be greatly reduced. Will the American government be able to continue to do so for a long time?

Argoo

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Quote from: mu_enrico on April 16, 2020, 01:49:09 PM

Well, whether this $2,000 will be granted or not, the $2.2 trillion CARES Act is still there. It's our opportunity to see if the mainstream economists are correct about printing money as a means to avoid recession/depression. The logic should be simple, that is the government must pay its debt. They may or may not get away with this recession, but this decision will backfire them at some point in the future, except if people will be so rich so that they can pay high taxes.

Of course, for the US government to print a few trillion dollars is not a big deal. All the same, their dollars, without any collateral, diverge around the world and are even in demand. If other states do this, inflation will quickly ruin their economies. Therefore, Americans are now in a more privileged position.

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Quote from: exstasie on July 14, 2020, 03:21:49 AM

The difference now is the national debt vs. GDP has already surpassed the height of WWII, and that happened back in April. Where does it end? The obvious worry is the US is going to follow in Japan's footsteps.

As long as America can manage debt like Japan, it won't be a big problem. Like Japan, government debt securities are mostly held by domestic and not foreign parties. Besides that, despite the large American debt, the multistreaming income is large and the foreign exchange reserves are still large. Also at a time like this it is necessary to closely observe what the real money owner does, like Warren Buffet when Berkshire Hathaway sold the majority of his shares in Q1 and chose to hold cash (which is outside the habits of those who hold shares for a long time).

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/69-trillion-of-world-debt-in-one-infographic/

plvbob0070

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But the question is, until when? We never know when will their economy recovers since the U.S. is highly affected by the pandemic with over 3 million confirmed cases. Perhaps, the government can easily give $2,000 financial assistance per month but how long would it last?

I'm not against helping their citizens knowing that a lot of people already lost their jobs because of this virus. Our government also did this kind of help, but not until now. Also, if they would take action on implementing strict protocols to protect their people, they can decrease the number of cases. Giving financial aid is a good move, but working on handling the pandemic to flatten the curve is a better action while there is still no vaccine.

STT

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The virus will carry on for the rest of this year at least I think, the danger is not known whether it mutates further and poses an annual reoccurring event where a constant threat to all could be possible. THats the worst outcome but the best is a vaccine available to some by year end and only next year is maybe for most.

The 2k a month on top of other debt means more QE, it could be a bigger threat to produce more debt and take that stance rather then just modifying all business to reduce contact which is the only real cure for now.

Taskford

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If the government it then why not? it can help their citizen to not struggle especially majority lose their job by this pandemic and I really had a confidence that America can afford it since they are rich country and I'm sure they have reserves for this kind of situation.

Let's hope this pandemic will end soonest so that we can end up the misery of the people who got affected by the crisis.

thesmallgod

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Considering the numbers of people soliciting for money on gofundme in recent time to feed their family, I do not see anything wrong with it and I'm very sure the united state is abreast and capable of handling the cons of printing fiat to mitigate the effect of this global pandemic. If this go through, it could be another crypto rally as it has been noticed before that a lot of Americans use their stimulus package to buy crypto specifically on coinbase

cheezcarls

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I would like to share on what is happening on my country (The Philippines) when it comes for the government to provide assistance to the low-income households. Since the start of the lockdown (or Enhanced Community Quarantine or ECQ in short), the government provided financial assistance to the low-income households of just between $120 to $160 per month, which is only good for basic needs as a third-world country.

But now that our city have lesser restrictions and slowly recovering, there’s no need for us to receive financial assistance (unless if circumstances happen like virus getting out of control, we could get another financial assistance again).

I’m just surprised that since the start of the COVID-19 restrictions in the country, the American government hasn’t provided $2,000 financial assistance to their citizens (which is still under consideration) as their businesses and jobs are affected by the pandemic.

Restarting the economy is the only way to get back on track provided that the citizens must adhere to the minimum health standards such as face masks, proper hygiene, social distancing, etc. Look at New Zealand right now, they’ve succeeded in controlling the virus and social distancing has been lifted after no more new cases for so many weeks.

exstasie

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Quote from: hunter7519 on July 12, 2020, 09:14:12 AM

The proposal is still under consideration, but I strongly doubt it will happen.

Then again, I strongly doubted the initial $1200 payment was going to happen, but it totally did.

It’s not as bad an idea as it seems at first appearance. It’s expensive, sure, but this is effectively a world war (it will kill a world war’s worth of people and every nation is fighting the enemy together, because we all collectively have no choice), so the appropriate question is not “is this more expensive than your average Tuesday” but more “is this more expensive than World War II was?”

The difference now is the national debt vs. GDP has already surpassed the height of WWII, and that happened back in April. Where does it end? The obvious worry is the US is going to follow in Japan's footsteps.

Quote from: hunter7519 on July 12, 2020, 09:14:12 AM

It seems reasonably obvious to me that if you order people not to work, you must also provide them a way to feed their families.

You cannot do one without the other or there will be riots, and not without justification.

Well that's why the Republicans are pushing for incentives on the supply side like a back-to-work bonus, payroll tax cuts, etc. They can't keep doling out entitlements and preaching fiscal responsibility with a straight face.

The ongoing payment thing will never pass the Senate. I think we'll see a compromise in the form of another $1,200 payment, just like the first one. That'll be it until and unless things reach crisis levels again.

Salauddin1994

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It is almost impossible for Americans to pay 2,000 a month until the economy recovers, given that each country's economy is currently in a state of disarray. Since most of the countries in the world trade in dollars. That is why America is dominating all other countries economically. He is imposing economic sanctions on any country if he wants. It is a tool of America's economic warfare, through which he cripples his disliked country. The Iranian country of Persia is the latest victim of the sanctions.

Yatsan

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It seems like that bill will still undergo a very long process knowing USA, they have lots of bills and cases that are still hanging so the possibility of that bill to pass is still too far to happen and it might take long that the pandemic was already over it is still remain a proposed bill. Added by the fact that it is quite impossible to fund $2,000 to the beneficiaries affected by the pandemic until the economy recovers.

We all know that all affected countries around the globe are undergoing financial crisis and that was all because of economic declination brought by this covid-19 pandemic. $2,000 was already a big amount and USA was a real big country that it would take tons of money to fund all the Americans until such time that the economy will recover. If that proposed bill will pass, it will be a great help for the people but still the big question is how could it be possible to fund that amount? and when will the proposed bill will be passed as a bill? It is still an underlying question.

But actually such thing of providing financial aid to those who are directly affected by the pandemic have already been done here in the country where I reside. I just don't know if USA can carry out doing the same thing being a country having a big population.

justdimin

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In USA? Are you guys crazy? Whoever put this out as a bill has literally no idea who controls the senate and doesn't have a clue about republicans and corporate democrats. I mean this is the type of thing that wouldn't pass but not only wouldn't pass, but would require a lot of work to be in even voting. They only allowed that 1.200 check once and that was with giving out hundreds of billions of dollars in bail out to companies and gave this 1.2k small amount to each person so they wouldn't care about the huge bail out to companies.

Now you are telling us that government should give 2k and help out people who are in dire need of it? They would give out 10 trillion dollars to banks and their buddy companies before they give 100 billion to people who need money, that is how terrible politicians are.

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Quote from: dejuan on July 13, 2020, 08:48:14 AM

the fact it is discussed shows craziness of US

Except it's not crazy in the slightest. Other countries actually went ahead and implemented similar schemes. Just look at their neighbours to the north as an example. Arguably, their economy is doing much better than the US as a result.

The crazy part is where so many people equate such policies with Communism because they are so heavily indoctrinated to believe such stupid things.

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Quote from: fiulpro on July 13, 2020, 08:34:19 AM

There is a reason why its still proposed and not yet evaluated and in action , there is no way that everyone can receive 2000$ per month till the economy recovers. When they don't even have enough to buy masks and PPE for the Frontline workers?

I think they have the budget to buy those essentials like face mask, however, Trump is not recognising or if he did, it is late already as the US suffers worst than expected. He was even seen wearing face mask for the first time and it's a good sign that he is taking the matter seriously now.

Quote from: fiulpro on July 13, 2020, 08:34:19 AM

This is absurd and they are mocking the whole system itself . We don't have any idea when this corona pandemic will subside but we do know one thing and that is *it is not going anywhere for a year or two* , how do they expect to pay 2000$ per person , per month for millions of them out there ? This is what a scam means .
They would either burn their whole economy down or make false promises and become the laughing stock of the whole nation , both of them is pretty sad . Don't give people false promises when you are just cooking up a recipe for self destruction of the economy yourself.

But I would agree that $2K is not sustainable in the long run specially if there is no cure in the next 1-2 years.

dejuan

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the fact it is discussed shows craziness of US

Del137

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Where they will get enough money for this? 10% inflation by the end of the month?

fiulpro

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There is a reason why its still proposed and not yet evaluated and in action , there is no way that everyone can receive 2000$ per month till the economy recovers. When they don't even have enough to buy masks and PPE for the Frontline workers?
This is absurd and they are mocking the whole system itself . We don't have any idea when this corona pandemic will subside but we do know one thing and that is *it is not going anywhere for a year or two* , how do they expect to pay 2000$ per person , per month for millions of them out there ? This is what a scam means .
They would either burn their whole economy down or make false promises and become the laughing stock of the whole nation , both of them is pretty sad . Don't give people false promises when you are just cooking up a recipe for self destruction of the economy yourself.

hunter7519

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on April 16, 2020, 01:49:48 AM

more helicopter money on the way?! everybody over age 16 would get $2k/month, no questions asked:

Quote

Washington, DC – Today, Representatives Ro Khanna (CA-17) and Tim Ryan (OH-13) introduced the Emergency Money for the People Act to provide additional cash payments for hard-working Americans who have been impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic. While the CARES Act was an important first step, its one-time payment does not provide nearly enough support for American families.

The Emergency Money for the People Act expands relief to more Americans and includes a $2,000 monthly payment to every qualifying American over the age of 16 for up to 12 months. It also fixes a bug in the CARES Act to ensure college students and adults with disabilities can still receive the payments even if claimed as a dependent. The Emergency Money for the People Act additionally recognizes that not everyone has a bank or a home address to receive a check – so it allows individuals to get this money through direct deposit, check, pre-paid debit card, or mobile money platforms such as Venmo, Zelle, or PayPal.

Under the Emergency Money for the People Act, monthly cash assistance payments would be guaranteed for at least six months and would renew for another six months unless the employment-to-population ratio for people ages 16 and older returns to the pre-covid crisis employment level of 60%. These payments would not count as income in order to protect eligibility for any of the income-based state or federal government assistance programs.

Reps. Khanna and Ryan proposed the first cash infusion plan a month ago, which the Administration and Senate Republicans embraced, and was passed into law with the CARES Act. But as a record-number of Americans have filed for unemployment in the past weeks, it’s clear a one-time payment will not be remotely sufficient. In some places, this doesn’t even cover a month’s rent.

https://khanna.house.gov/media/press-releases/release-representatives-ro-khanna-and-tim-ryan-introduce-legislation-send

could this pass? 17 co-sponsors and counting. i never thought UBI would be on the table so soon, but with the economy on the verge of collapse, unemployment skyrocketing, social unrest around the corner.....it doesn't seem impossible anymore.

thoughts? what are the limits of money printing? Shocked

The proposal is still under consideration, but I strongly doubt it will happen.

Then again, I strongly doubted the initial $1200 payment was going to happen, but it totally did.

It’s not as bad an idea as it seems at first appearance. It’s expensive, sure, but this is effectively a world war (it will kill a world war’s worth of people and every nation is fighting the enemy together, because we all collectively have no choice), so the appropriate question is not “is this more expensive than your average Tuesday” but more “is this more expensive than World War II was?”

It seems reasonably obvious to me that if you order people not to work, you must also provide them a way to feed their families.

You cannot do one without the other or there will be riots, and not without justification.

Vishnu.Reang

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These lawmakers never fail to surprise me with their lunatic ideas. I just hope that the bill won't pass. $24,000 per year to every working age individual would mean that the federal debt will rise by at least $5 trillion in a single year. As of now, the United States Dollar is doing well when compared to the other fiat currencies. But if they do something like this, then that situation might change.

panganib999

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This would be just good if it would be passed because the same thing have happened here in our country wherein our government have provided a financial assistance for all the poorest of the poor up to the middle class people that are affected by the pandemic which brought quarantine, works to be temporarily postponed so no work no pay will be implemented and the financial aid is a help for those people to survive up until the workplaces are open to provide jobs that will be a source of income.

Actually it is not bad to pass that bill since it is a certain need of people that are needed to be attended so why worry or think about passing the bill if it will benefit many people? Although it is pricey because it is up until the economy recovers, maybe the bill could undergo certain revisions pursuing only those who are only in need to have that financial assistance.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: jacafbiz on April 18, 2020, 10:53:07 AM

I don't see how this would pass, why do I need to seek for job again when I know at the end of the month a big brother is going to airdrop $2k into my account, $2k per month doing nothing, I think this would even slow down the recovery. Though never say never in an election time but I don't see how this would be sustained.

there is undoubtedly more money printing coming. if the alternative is corporate bailouts, i'll take stimulus over bailouts any day. pelosi and trump say they are both open to more stimulus payments. a growing number (62+) of senators/congressmen want to make those payments recurring.

$2k/month isn't really shit in most parts of the USA. for many people, it wouldn't even cover their housing---definitely not a replacement for a job. on the other hand, it might be enough to keep the housing market from totally collapsing from rent/mortgage defaults. a more direct route to that end would be rent/mortgage forgiveness, which is now also on the table. stimulus payments would have the added bonus of stimulating consumer activity, which would obviously help keep businesses afloat and prop up the economy.

deflation (drops in prices due to economic collapse) will soon set in if something isn't done. they need to either reopen the economy and risk letting the virus ravage the health care system, or print money to plug the bleeding. the former option is obviously favored by fiscal conservatives, but the reality is it may end up costing taxpayers even more if the health care situation worsens as a result.

DooMAD

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Quote from: jacafbiz on April 18, 2020, 10:53:07 AM

I don't see how this would pass, why do I need to seek for job again when I know at the end of the month a big brother is going to airdrop $2k into my account, $2k per month doing nothing

Because there will be fewer jobs to seek if large numbers of businesses go under. Think about it. If you combine the issues of companies being forced to close for a prolonged period of time, and then on top of that, some people being laid-off or "furloughed", reducing their household income and giving them less money to spend once companies can open for business once again, it's not a comfortable position for businesses to be in.

jacafbiz

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I don't see how this would pass, why do I need to seek for job again when I know at the end of the month a big brother is going to airdrop $2k into my account, $2k per month doing nothing, I think this would even slow down the recovery. Though never say never in an election time but I don't see how this would be sustained.

Ibizugbe1

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The nation will need to lay down and sacrifice for her citizens as they deal with a on-human enemy. Whatever is done to mitigate the suffering of the power this period is good provided it's done in good faith. And I hope people will be wise enough to know that inflation is imminent from printing money from the thin air. Wise fund management is needed.

bakasabo

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Quote from: royalfestus on April 17, 2020, 04:59:38 AM

America has more casualties than any other country and this put more pressure on them than any other government, the Government had also enjoyed support of everyone to put a palliative measure for the citizens. The pressure will reflect on the country's economy than any other country and the currency will lose a lot of value. Every Government is just trying all available ideas, no exact solution for now and Vaccine will be more reliable

Recently I've read that president Trump proposed to give once-only $1,000 cheque and this offer was ridiculed by former head of IMF. That time Italy was leading with casualties amount. Now, sadly, America is leading and the amount and everything turned to $2,000/monthly. Cant imagine how long it with take for economy to recover from all that...

royalfestus

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Quote from: Kasabus on April 16, 2020, 06:58:26 PM

Quote from: pixie85 on April 16, 2020, 05:38:25 PM

Quote from: Cratoon on April 16, 2020, 07:16:03 AM

With this amount of new USD money in the economy, I believe the BTC and other main cryptos will fly us quickly.

I hope that you understand that you can't give money that you do not have. This means they will have to make money. So they will print money and give it away for people to spend.

They'll dillute the dolladr and make it worth even less and that 2000 that people will think is a lot will kick them in the ass a year later when they'll have to pay $20 for a pack of cigarettes.

This is not just happening in America but even to some countries who gives financial assistance to all senior citizens and persons with disabilities and even to those citizens who are not able to go their work because of covid 19. This means printing more money until this crisis comes to an end.

America has more casualties than any other country and this put more pressure on them than any other government, the Government had also enjoyed support of everyone to put a palliative measure for the citizens. The pressure will reflect on the country's economy than any other country and the currency will lose a lot of value. Every Government is just trying all available ideas, no exact solution for now and Vaccine will be more reliable

figmentofmyass

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$2k a month seems to be a popular idea.

a different group of house democrats has proposed another bill promising $2k monthly payments to americans through the end of the pandemic, and $1k/month for a year after:

Quote

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, Congresswomen Rashida Tlaib (MI-13) and Pramila Jayapal (WA-7) unveiled the Automatic BOOST to Communities (ABC) Act, legislation to immediately provide a $2,000 payment using BOOST debit cards to every person in America as critical relief during the COVID-19 crisis, followed by $1,000 recurring monthly payments for one year after the end of the crisis to help our country and families recover. The ABC Act would be funded directly from the Treasury with no additional debt issued by minting two $1 trillion coins, and additional coins as necessary.
https://tlaib.house.gov/media/press-releases/tlaib-jayapal-introduce-groundbreaking-bill-deliver-universal-recurring

just mint a couple more $1 trillion coins. why not? Cheesy

as an interesting side development, the bill necessitates the creation of a fed-issued digital dollar, which would replace debit cards in the stimulus program by 2021: https://www.coindesk.com/digital-dollar-reintroduced-by-us-lawmakers-in-latest-stimulus-bill

meanwhile, a fed official said today that ongoing small business bailouts may require $500 billion spending per month: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-fed-bostic-idUSKBN21Y2MG?taid=5e9906f65a107f0001b4b6fb

no matter how you cut it, there's a lot more helicopter money coming. it's only a question of what form it takes.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: gentlemand on April 16, 2020, 05:50:40 AM

Are the people who proposed this credible characters? Never heard of either of them.

apparently they are the same representatives behind the first $1200 stimulus payment. that says something.

house reps are lesser known than senators because there are so many of them---435 vs 100. i don't know these two by name, but i recognize several of the bill's co-sponsors as well known political veterans.

Quote from: gentlemand on April 16, 2020, 05:50:40 AM

I found the one off $1200 pretty weird. It would've been better to drip feed the same amount on a tiered basis but perhaps that's too close to UBI for their liking. Maybe they thought the idea of a one time windfall was less Unamerican.

i feel like there was an assumption at that time that the lockdowns might only last a few weeks, then life would return to normal. now everyone is grappling with the reality that it won't.

Quote from: Febo on April 16, 2020, 02:13:08 PM

You cant really call it an UBI if it is just a temporary. UBI is a regular pay that happens every month.

okay but the way this is framed, it's not temporary. it renews every 6 months until employment levels return to pre-coronavirus levels, which will take years, if ever.

i also have a feeling that if people get monthly payments for the next year or two, there's no going back. if people get a taste of UBI as an alternative to working horrible paycheck-to-paycheck jobs that only enrich corporate executives/shareholders, they're not gonna go back to their old lives. there will be a serious push for social changes.

that's the biggest reason for conservatives to oppose this now---it will permanently change how the population views entitlements going forward.

dunfida

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Quote from: dothebeats on April 16, 2020, 02:15:15 PM

This would be a good thing for the Americans short-term, or as long as the pandemic is still ravaging the country. Though of course with such a huge sum of money being given for free to every American eligible for the fund, this would have severe effects in terms of taxation and the economy long-term, and I sure hope that everyone has already realized that printing a lot of money will have a detriment to the economy and someone is going to pay for those.

Before making this decisions they are already fully aware on what are the cons on printing out more money but on times like these then i wont say its a bad idea and pretty sure that they wouldnt care for that matter as of this moment, what important is that they do able to sustain and give out help on temporary basis.. They would mind the problem or effects later on after this global problem
would be resolved.

Kasabus

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Quote from: pixie85 on April 16, 2020, 05:38:25 PM

Quote from: Cratoon on April 16, 2020, 07:16:03 AM

With this amount of new USD money in the economy, I believe the BTC and other main cryptos will fly us quickly.

I hope that you understand that you can't give money that you do not have. This means they will have to make money. So they will print money and give it away for people to spend.

They'll dillute the dolladr and make it worth even less and that 2000 that people will think is a lot will kick them in the ass a year later when they'll have to pay $20 for a pack of cigarettes.

This is not just happening in America but even to some countries who gives financial assistance to all senior citizens and persons with disabilities and even to those citizens who are not able to go their work because of covid 19. This means printing more money until this crisis comes to an end.

goaldigger

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Quote from: pixie85 on April 16, 2020, 05:38:25 PM

Quote from: Cratoon on April 16, 2020, 07:16:03 AM

With this amount of new USD money in the economy, I believe the BTC and other main cryptos will fly us quickly.

I hope that you understand that you can't give money that you do not have. This means they will have to make money. So they will print money and give it away for people to spend.

They'll dillute the dolladr and make it worth even less and that 2000 that people will think is a lot will kick them in the ass a year later when they'll have to pay $20 for a pack of cigarettes.

The inflation will rise because of the over supply of money and since many people are losing their jobs, they believe $2k is way better than offering a job. Well, we have the better chance to go up now but still depends on how bitcoin behaves especially right now that we are expecting a positive outcome of the halving.

DooMAD

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Quote from: pixie85 on April 16, 2020, 05:38:25 PM

They'll dillute the dolladr and make it worth even less and that 2000 that people will think is a lot will kick them in the ass a rear later when they'll have to pay $20 for a pack of cigarettes.

Sure, but the simple fact is, they will spend the money. You can't have an economy if people aren't doing that. When you compare it to all the other times they've printed money, which has also diluted the value time and time again, but the economy never saw the same kind of monetary "flow" from it that this will likely bring. Money needs to circulate and it can't do that when the banks effectively just funnel QE into their silly little derivatives casino. Anything is better than that.

eaLiTy

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Quote from: Darker45 on April 16, 2020, 04:14:54 AM

There seems to be a qualification. This does not seem to be an assistance covering every single American aged 17 and beyond. I think those who are still employed and are receiving their regular salary won't be enjoying this. Well, if ever this will pass.

The package seems to be huge and they need to print a lot of currency as they are planning to provide two thousand dollars for anyone above 16 years who are making an annual income less than $130,000 is eligible for this package and any married couple earning less than $260,000 will get $4000 and every kid will get $500. With elections coming up i wont be surprised if Trump will find a way to pass this proposed bill.

Quote from: exstasie on April 16, 2020, 04:08:38 PM

The guaranteed 6 months would cost $10 trillion. Not even that crazy considering we're all expecting corporate bailouts in that range anyway. I'd much rather it go directly to actual consumers than continue this trickle-down bailout bullshit.

Considering the bailout bullshit for corporate companies these are not that huge but the problem lies when these corporate will need the bailout this time around as there will be more companies in trouble with the recession is imminent because of complete lock down and the virus scare and how each and every government will overcome these is just a puzzle.

pixie85

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Quote from: Cratoon on April 16, 2020, 07:16:03 AM

With this amount of new USD money in the economy, I believe the BTC and other main cryptos will fly us quickly.

I hope that you understand that you can't give money that you do not have. This means they will have to make money. So they will print money and give it away for people to spend.

They'll dillute the dolladr and make it worth even less and that 2000 that people will think is a lot will kick them in the ass a year later when they'll have to pay $20 for a pack of cigarettes.

exstasie

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Quote from: Darker45 on April 16, 2020, 04:14:54 AM

There seems to be a qualification. This does not seem to be an assistance covering every single American aged 17 and beyond. I think those who are still employed and are receiving their regular salary won't be enjoying this.

I don't think so. Even non-working dependents would get paid under this scheme. This is what is says under "eligibility":

Quote from: DooMAD on April 16, 2020, 03:07:28 PM

I have to laugh when there's going to be more resistance to this than there is to all the occasions when they've just handed the money directly to banks to dick about with and pretend that "trickle down" isn't entirely discredited. Too much stimulus is undeniably a bad thing, but at least this time, assuming it goes ahead, the stimulus might actually live up to the supposed concept of actually boosting the economy. It must be a crisis when it finally dawns on someone to do things the way they should have been done all along.

According to Erik Voorhees' math, this will cost $400 billion per month. The guaranteed 6 months would cost $10 trillion. Not even that crazy considering we're all expecting corporate bailouts in that range anyway. I'd much rather it go directly to actual consumers than continue this trickle-down bailout bullshit.

DooMAD

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I have to laugh when there's going to be more resistance to this than there is to all the occasions when they've just handed the money directly to banks to dick about with and pretend that "trickle down" isn't entirely discredited. Too much stimulus is undeniably a bad thing, but at least this time, assuming it goes ahead, the stimulus might actually live up to the supposed concept of actually boosting the economy. It must be a crisis when it finally dawns on someone to do things the way they should have been done all along.

dothebeats

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This would be a good thing for the Americans short-term, or as long as the pandemic is still ravaging the country. Though of course with such a huge sum of money being given for free to every American eligible for the fund, this would have severe effects in terms of taxation and the economy long-term, and I sure hope that everyone has already realized that printing a lot of money will have a detriment to the economy and someone is going to pay for those.

Febo

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on April 16, 2020, 01:49:48 AM

more helicopter money on the way?! everybody over age 16 would get $2k/month, no questions asked:

could this pass? 17 co-sponsors and counting. i never thought UBI would be on the table so soon, but with the economy on the verge of collapse, unemployment skyrocketing, social unrest around the corner.....it doesn't seem impossible anymore.

thoughts? what are the limits of money printing? Shocked

You cant really call it an UBI if it is just a temporary. UBI is a regular pay that happens every month. Problem is that we have no ideas how ling countries will be locked down and how much GDP will drop in 2020. Helicopter money is one way to prevent total crash. But helicopter money is useless if country is still locked down. Since then people cant locally spend money. They will stack it or spend online and then helicopter money will lose all effect.

Wenbing

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on April 16, 2020, 01:49:48 AM

more helicopter money on the way?! everybody over age 16 would get $2k/month, no questions asked:

Quote

Washington, DC – Today, Representatives Ro Khanna (CA-17) and Tim Ryan (OH-13) introduced the Emergency Money for the People Act to provide additional cash payments for hard-working Americans who have been impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic. While the CARES Act was an important first step, its one-time payment does not provide nearly enough support for American families.

The Emergency Money for the People Act expands relief to more Americans and includes a $2,000 monthly payment to every qualifying American over the age of 16 for up to 12 months. It also fixes a bug in the CARES Act to ensure college students and adults with disabilities can still receive the payments even if claimed as a dependent. The Emergency Money for the People Act additionally recognizes that not everyone has a bank or a home address to receive a check – so it allows individuals to get this money through direct deposit, check, pre-paid debit card, or mobile money platforms such as Venmo, Zelle, or PayPal.

Under the Emergency Money for the People Act, monthly cash assistance payments would be guaranteed for at least six months and would renew for another six months unless the employment-to-population ratio for people ages 16 and older returns to the pre-covid crisis employment level of 60%. These payments would not count as income in order to protect eligibility for any of the income-based state or federal government assistance programs.

Reps. Khanna and Ryan proposed the first cash infusion plan a month ago, which the Administration and Senate Republicans embraced, and was passed into law with the CARES Act. But as a record-number of Americans have filed for unemployment in the past weeks, it’s clear a one-time payment will not be remotely sufficient. In some places, this doesn’t even cover a month’s rent.

https://khanna.house.gov/media/press-releases/release-representatives-ro-khanna-and-tim-ryan-introduce-legislation-send

could this pass? 17 co-sponsors and counting. i never thought UBI would be on the table so soon, but with the economy on the verge of collapse, unemployment skyrocketing, social unrest around the corner.....it doesn't seem impossible anymore.

thoughts? what are the limits of money printing? Shocked

Printing more money and increasing the MS will trigger inflationary trend in the US economy unless production keep up with the money in circulation.

mu_enrico

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Well, whether this $2,000 will be granted or not, the $2.2 trillion CARES Act is still there. It's our opportunity to see if the mainstream economists are correct about printing money as a means to avoid recession/depression. The logic should be simple, that is the government must pay its debt. They may or may not get away with this recession, but this decision will backfire them at some point in the future, except if people will be so rich so that they can pay high taxes.

Gozie51

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I'm sure that too much money in the system leads to inflation, this is responding to ops question about printing of money, by economic teaching.

Quote from: Cratoon on April 16, 2020, 07:16:03 AM

With this amount of new USD money in the economy, I believe the BTC and other main cryptos will fly us quickly.

I think this can happen too.
America is trying hard to support the people but I don't know if they have reserves already that can take care of this inflow.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on April 16, 2020, 01:49:48 AM

could this pass?

Not if someone with half a brain who has enough power to stop it has a say in the matter. I'm not sure how they think the US is going to pay for such a relief effort--and I don't even know what the impact on taxes and inflation the first stimulus payment is going to be, and it worries me. Part of me thinks that the Fed thinks it can get away with printing money nonstop, having done it a few times before without disastrous consequences.

But there are going to be consequences, that much I'm sure of, and somebody is going to have to pay for all this free money eventually.

I'm also wondering how long the politicians think this crisis is going to go on, and my personal guess is that it's not going to be longer than six months and probably will be much less than that. People aren't going to need all this relief money once they start getting back to work--which they will once businesses start to open again. I don't know. This proposal is stupid on its face, and it could just be political posturing.

el kaka22

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Ro Khanna is a progressive democrat that has been co-chair of BERNIE which we all know is the king of progressives in America, so it is not a wonder why she would give this kind of offer to the congress. However even if this passes congress which it still has some troubles and doubtful, it will be stuck on Russian Mitch and wouldn't even be considered and voted on at all.

So, there is no 2000 a month money coming in at all. Hell they literally gave everyone only 1.200 for one time deal just so they could give 500 billion dollars to their corporation friends and that is something people will not forget soon enough (or at least I hope so). This is just a suggestion basically and will not become the reality, we would all hope it should, but we all know its just a dream.

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With this amount of new USD money in the economy, I believe the BTC and other main cryptos will fly us quickly.

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Its a good palliative measure for those without money or income in this crisis but planning to get back demand should not be objective. With same mind of rescuing the economy he plans to remove laws that prevent lockdown and social distancing. First, there is no immediate way to handle inflation in coming days with the fund in circulation. Secondly, the leadership might need to take caution on putting too much priority on economy than lives of the citizen, demand and relax of lockdown wont be substitute to lives and may ever be the greatest mistake they made. As we have decided to take enough time in this period, so be it

gentlemand

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Are the people who proposed this credible characters? Never heard of either of them.

I found the one off $1200 pretty weird. It would've been better to drip feed the same amount on a tiered basis but perhaps that's too close to UBI for their liking. Maybe they thought the idea of a one time windfall was less Unamerican.

I wonder when you add up the cost of tax breaks, subsidies, stimulus packages, welfare systems and the apparatus to administrate it all whether ongoing UBI would work out cheaper overall. Like many things even if it is cheaper the spiritual implications might be too much to countenace.

Since we're supposed to be having an AI-assisted jobs bonfire in the near future perhaps they've just brought the inevitable forward a bit.

Darker45

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on April 16, 2020, 01:49:48 AM

more helicopter money on the way?! everybody over age 16 would get $2k/month, no questions asked:

Quote

...Emergency Money for the People Act to provide additional cash payments for hard-working Americans who have been impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic.

...to every qualifying American over the age of 16...

There seems to be a qualification. This does not seem to be an assistance covering every single American aged 17 and beyond. I think those who are still employed and are receiving their regular salary won't be enjoying this. Well, if ever this will pass.

Quote

thoughts? what are the limits of money printing? Shocked

Money printing seems unlimited. The sky's the limit!

While this is a bit suicidal to the USD's value in the long term, at least this is going to provide a great relief to every single American who has lost his/her job during this crisis. Generally, this is much better than printing money and freely give them away to large companies. In other countries such as mine, a lot of the poorest of the poor, who are the ones bearing the brunt of this economic crisis brought by COVID-19, are not receiving even a pack of instant noodles.

avikz

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We are seeing an exceptional time at this moment. Where all people are under lockdown and industries are forced to stop production. I don't think we have seen such kind of extreme measures to defeat a pandemic ever in this century. So it's no wonder that economy is getting the hit it doesn't deserve and continue to show a steady decline. To fight such extreme loss, firstly the government will have to step in to increase demand. The demand will only increase if people have money in their hand. Otherwise the wheel of the economy will not start rolling. It's a complete chain!

Government pays their citizens >> Citizens will go out to buy products from the market >> It will increase the demand >> Factories will recruit people to keep up with the demand >> People will find employment >> More money starts circulating into the economy >> Government will earn in taxes to ensure people welfare >> Government pays their citizen >> economy will start getting back on track

I would say, it's a good decision taken by US government to increase the demand in the market and to ensure that their economy doesn't collapse. It is an exceptional time, so looking at the traditional measures may not become helpful in such times. Let's hope that printing of money will help humanity at this testing time.

My prayer for all who are fighting against the odds!

figmentofmyass

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more helicopter money on the way?! everybody over age 16 would get $2k/month, no questions asked:

Quote

Washington, DC – Today, Representatives Ro Khanna (CA-17) and Tim Ryan (OH-13) introduced the Emergency Money for the People Act to provide additional cash payments for hard-working Americans who have been impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic. While the CARES Act was an important first step, its one-time payment does not provide nearly enough support for American families.

The Emergency Money for the People Act expands relief to more Americans and includes a $2,000 monthly payment to every qualifying American over the age of 16 for up to 12 months. It also fixes a bug in the CARES Act to ensure college students and adults with disabilities can still receive the payments even if claimed as a dependent. The Emergency Money for the People Act additionally recognizes that not everyone has a bank or a home address to receive a check – so it allows individuals to get this money through direct deposit, check, pre-paid debit card, or mobile money platforms such as Venmo, Zelle, or PayPal.

Under the Emergency Money for the People Act, monthly cash assistance payments would be guaranteed for at least six months and would renew for another six months unless the employment-to-population ratio for people ages 16 and older returns to the pre-covid crisis employment level of 60%. These payments would not count as income in order to protect eligibility for any of the income-based state or federal government assistance programs.

Reps. Khanna and Ryan proposed the first cash infusion plan a month ago, which the Administration and Senate Republicans embraced, and was passed into law with the CARES Act. But as a record-number of Americans have filed for unemployment in the past weeks, it’s clear a one-time payment will not be remotely sufficient. In some places, this doesn’t even cover a month’s rent.

https://khanna.house.gov/media/press-releases/release-representatives-ro-khanna-and-tim-ryan-introduce-legislation-send

could this pass? 17 co-sponsors and counting. i never thought UBI would be on the table so soon, but with the economy on the verge of collapse, unemployment skyrocketing, social unrest around the corner.....it doesn't seem impossible anymore.

thoughts? what are the limits of money printing? Shocked

Topic: Proposed Bill Would Give Americans $2,000 A Month Until Economy Recovers (Read 701 times)