Proposed ETF rejected by SEC - great news for the market!

Kemarit

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Quote from: KorakPawon on September 07, 2018, 06:47:10 AM

It is true that there is now that the situation is indeed true that good news for the market and good news for investors is that investors will be safer and more flexible.

How can you be more safer when you don't know your bitcoins. Its the bitcoin custodian (in this case, VanEck/Solid X). I advise you to read all about ETF's mate.

Its possible that we won't see the decision this September. Most probably SEC will get to postponed it, citing more time again. So people will still hope that a approval will renewed investors interest on crypto space, and will make a dramatic change into mainstream adoption, which is not. Smarter investors knows that, but casuals will cling into this hope without realizing it's possible that it can bring the price even more volatile in the foreseeable future.

KorakPawon

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It is true that there is now that the situation is indeed true that good news for the market and good news for investors is that investors will be safer and more flexible.

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: timerland on September 03, 2018, 02:50:28 AM

Quote from: avikz on August 22, 2018, 06:28:26 PM

As some of you may already know about it, that SEC finally rejected the ETF that was proposed by Proshare Capital Management LLC. The rejected came in today and SEC released the official document confirming the same.

SEC document Link: https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/nysearca/2018/34-83904.pdf

Now my point is that, it is actually good for the market. The market was living on a false hope and SEC finally pulled the plug out. No more false hope will certainly help to recover the market. Newbies were excited about the news of ETF without knowing the fact. Let me point out a few for noobs.

1. The proposed ETF was meant for institiutional investors and not for common people like us.

2. The underlying asset for the proposed ETF was CME future contracts. No physical bitcoins were proposed to be purchased resulting zero impact.

3. SEC used your excitement to control the market price of bitcoin to some extent. With every delay announcement, market took a dip because you guys thought this ETF will be a great addition to the market. Wrong!

Now the ETF has been rejected by SEC, please don't let your emotion to ruin the market. The less numbers of regulated products around crypto, the better! The decision will help the market survive without intervention of SEC. So rejoice and cheer!

I wouldn't say that it's "great news". But it's certainly not as bad as some people think.

If the SEC approves the ETF, great. But it's not going to benefit any of the average bitcoin users which bitcoin is actually designed to serve, but rather they are aimed at institutional investors and speculators in general, as you mentioned. So even if it does get approved, there are no real tangible benefits.

Secondly, people think that this is a stance that the SEC is taking on bitcoin itself. It's far from that. They're making an evaluation on the fund, whether it can be offered to investors, not bitcoin itself.

Overall, I'm glad to see that people are starting to realize how irrelevant ETF approval really is to the market. But if it does get approved, we really can't do anything about it, nor is it going to affect people much at all.

Agree, If you do look out on most people who do know Bitcoin and with their stance or beliefs about ETF it is really on opposite matter.They do make it as
a big issue regarding on how the market will move on having these decisions.It can really make some effects but wont really be that general and as you clarified
this wont really make any differences at all since this ETF will only serve out those people who doesnt even know about Crypto.

Just another thing which theres another rejection happened yesterday as far as i remember which eventually decreased out value of bitcoin itself but not really much since its still climbing to recover once again.

magneto

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Some intriguing points against ETF that I think everyone needs to know about.

Is it great news though? Probably not really. It's certainly not bad news like a lot of media is trying to make it seem like. ETFs have nothing to do with the bitcoin blockchain, and its importance is really been a result of hype rather than reason. You're spot on with the first point, big investment banks are whats going to be benefited by ETFs, not us.

There are actually still plenty of people who care about the upcoming September ETF decisions, which I think is just worth completely ignoring at this point. Not only is there minimal chance that they'll actually be approved, even if they do, they will not help any bitcoin user with their on chain transactions one single bit.

Cryptogid

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Price hike and no price hike,must everything revolve around the ETF,Americans,I strongly believe that by the time more of the technology through block chain,and the mass adoption is increasing,ETF and USA,will play along bitcoin and blockchain technology..

sheenshane

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Quote from: creeps on September 03, 2018, 08:05:02 AM

Quote from: thebanker28 on August 27, 2018, 07:11:10 AM

i think the etf would be good for the market. it would add a sense of legitimacy to the whole thing.

We don’t know yet not until it happen. The market reacts normal during those rejection days, and maybe because of that we can really say ETF is not that big thing in this market. Maybe people are really just hyping the market and make false news to dump more the market.

Precisely mate, ETF rejection will not be having an effect into the bitcoin price in the market, it will depend on the demand and supply that people holding or just having a hype by them. If we compared last year there is no ETF implementation but the market will grow more than we expected. So, it clearly means that even SEC knows that ETF is nothing and they rejected this proposal recently.

creeps

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Quote from: thebanker28 on August 27, 2018, 07:11:10 AM

i think the etf would be good for the market. it would add a sense of legitimacy to the whole thing.

We don’t know yet not until it happen. The market reacts normal during those rejection days, and maybe because of that we can really say ETF is not that big thing in this market. Maybe people are really just hyping the market and make false news to dump more the market.

timerland

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Quote from: avikz on August 22, 2018, 06:28:26 PM

As some of you may already know about it, that SEC finally rejected the ETF that was proposed by Proshare Capital Management LLC. The rejected came in today and SEC released the official document confirming the same.

SEC document Link: https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/nysearca/2018/34-83904.pdf

Now my point is that, it is actually good for the market. The market was living on a false hope and SEC finally pulled the plug out. No more false hope will certainly help to recover the market. Newbies were excited about the news of ETF without knowing the fact. Let me point out a few for noobs.

1. The proposed ETF was meant for institiutional investors and not for common people like us.

2. The underlying asset for the proposed ETF was CME future contracts. No physical bitcoins were proposed to be purchased resulting zero impact.

3. SEC used your excitement to control the market price of bitcoin to some extent. With every delay announcement, market took a dip because you guys thought this ETF will be a great addition to the market. Wrong!

Now the ETF has been rejected by SEC, please don't let your emotion to ruin the market. The less numbers of regulated products around crypto, the better! The decision will help the market survive without intervention of SEC. So rejoice and cheer!

I wouldn't say that it's "great news". But it's certainly not as bad as some people think.

If the SEC approves the ETF, great. But it's not going to benefit any of the average bitcoin users which bitcoin is actually designed to serve, but rather they are aimed at institutional investors and speculators in general, as you mentioned. So even if it does get approved, there are no real tangible benefits.

Secondly, people think that this is a stance that the SEC is taking on bitcoin itself. It's far from that. They're making an evaluation on the fund, whether it can be offered to investors, not bitcoin itself.

Overall, I'm glad to see that people are starting to realize how irrelevant ETF approval really is to the market. But if it does get approved, we really can't do anything about it, nor is it going to affect people much at all.

Rebellion359862

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What's good about that? price as manipulated and manipulated only not in such volumes, the adoption would help in the medium term to make good money.

Lucius

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Quote from: avikz on August 27, 2018, 05:57:39 AM

Quote from: Lucius on August 27, 2018, 04:19:06 AM

This is something that is become a part of everyday life for crypto, good or bad there is no way to stop it. SEC can reject BTC ETFs, but new applications will continue to come to the same address.

I can't really deny the fact that new applications will keep pouring in. But the emotion of the investors are being tricked in this way by SEC. SEC is delaying the decision, delaying the decision. But not much people are aware that majority of the past applications are for synthetic ETFs where no physical bitcoins will be purchased and taken out of circulation. Common people should understand that synthetic ETFs are not good for us. Only the funds will be flown from one corporate to others.

Hopes are high for ETFs like VanEck solidx bitcoin trust because they are into physical bitcoin trading. Rest all are useless. The recent denied ETF of Proshares was proposed to be based on bitcoin future contracts and not on physical bitcoin. That difference should be clearer for the common mass.

For me personally only VanEck SolidX Bitcoin Trust ETF was worth mentioning, they made so far best application and it is all about buying physical bitcoin in order to buyer get shares in fund. Such trading will make some difference in the market, but only if big investors show interest in it - if not than ETF will not mean anything.

Quote from: alex_gr_cc on August 30, 2018, 03:51:35 AM

If the market is not regulated, then new money will not come to this market. The fact that the market can continue to grow without regulation is a delusion. People are afraid to enter the cryptocurrency market, because it is wild. A wild one, because there is no regulation. Without large money, the cryptocurrency market will remain - for an enthusiasts.

This is true, most investors and especially those who have big money do not want to invest in something which is pretty insecure and highly risky. If you give them a chance to invest in BTC in very easy way (no wallets, exchanges, private keys...), just buying coins by one click and that coins have insurance they will probably put some money in this basket. If I'm not mistaken VanEck&SolidX have at their disposal some 38$ billion and CBOE as platform for trading - it seems pretty solid from my perspective.

alex_gr_cc

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If the market is not regulated, then new money will not come to this market. The fact that the market can continue to grow without regulation is a delusion. People are afraid to enter the cryptocurrency market, because it is wild. A wild one, because there is no regulation. Without large money, the cryptocurrency market will remain - for an enthusiasts.

thebanker28

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i think the etf would be good for the market. it would add a sense of legitimacy to the whole thing.

avikz

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Quote from: Lucius on August 27, 2018, 04:19:06 AM

This is something that is become a part of everyday life for crypto, good or bad there is no way to stop it. SEC can reject BTC ETFs, but new applications will continue to come to the same address.

I can't really deny the fact that new applications will keep pouring in. But the emotion of the investors are being tricked in this way by SEC. SEC is delaying the decision, delaying the decision. But not much people are aware that majority of the past applications are for synthetic ETFs where no physical bitcoins will be purchased and taken out of circulation. Common people should understand that synthetic ETFs are not good for us. Only the funds will be flown from one corporate to others.

Hopes are high for ETFs like VanEck solidx bitcoin trust because they are into physical bitcoin trading. Rest all are useless. The recent denied ETF of Proshares was proposed to be based on bitcoin future contracts and not on physical bitcoin. That difference should be clearer for the common mass.

Lucius

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Quote from: BitMaxz on August 26, 2018, 05:34:54 PM

When the SEC was finally decided and rejected the bitcoin ETF I don't think that there is a huge effect in the market.

What I see today is a continuous price increase even though the price is slowly rising there is some time that the price suddenly drops, but not so big. And the movement price looks in recovery state so, I believe that the Bitcoin ETF is no longer involved why the price is climbing up again so we don't need to worry again about the huge drop caused by rejection and it seems we don't need the bitcoin ETF anymore to boost up the market price because I believe that bitcoin itself can increase the price in its own.

Another good news that they can no longer use bitcoin ETF to play the market price.

First it is not BTC ETF, but ETFs - there is more then one involved in this story. Second, there was significant impact on BTC price at the beginning, only if you think 2000$+ in not huge jump... Also it is not true that ETF story is over, the next deadline for a SEC decision regarding VanEck SolidX Bitcoin Trust ETF is September 30 of this year, and they can delay it even for next year.

This is something that is become a part of everyday life for crypto, good or bad there is no way to stop it. SEC can reject BTC ETFs, but new applications will continue to come to the same address.

BitMaxz

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Happy New year 🤗

Quote from: Theb on August 26, 2018, 02:13:35 PM

In the past couple of weeks I have seen a lot of articles and opinions trying to explain how Bitcoin ETFs won't really give a positive effect (If the SEC authorized one) on the common cryptocurrency market yet majority of the people here still thinks about Bitcoins ETFs as something big for the market that is why it is making waves in terms of price action for BTC and other cryptocurrencies in the market. SEC rejecting more ETFs might still give a negative effect on the market even though the truth is it is good news for us. The good news is somehow misunderstood by the majority of the people as a bad news for them that is why it is affecting the prices negatively.

When the SEC was finally decided and rejected the bitcoin ETF I don't think that there is a huge effect in the market.

What I see today is a continuous price increase even though the price is slowly rising there is some time that the price suddenly drops, but not so big. And the movement price looks in recovery state so, I believe that the Bitcoin ETF is no longer involved why the price is climbing up again so we don't need to worry again about the huge drop caused by rejection and it seems we don't need the bitcoin ETF anymore to boost up the market price because I believe that bitcoin itself can increase the price in its own.

Another good news that they can no longer use bitcoin ETF to play the market price.

Theb

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In the past couple of weeks I have seen a lot of articles and opinions trying to explain how Bitcoin ETFs won't really give a positive effect (If the SEC authorized one) on the common cryptocurrency market yet majority of the people here still thinks about Bitcoins ETFs as something big for the market that is why it is making waves in terms of price action for BTC and other cryptocurrencies in the market. SEC rejecting more ETFs might still give a negative effect on the market even though the truth is it is good news for us. The good news is somehow misunderstood by the majority of the people as a bad news for them that is why it is affecting the prices negatively.

audaciousbeing

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Quote from: avikz on August 22, 2018, 06:28:26 PM

As some of you may already know about it, that SEC finally rejected the ETF that was proposed by Proshare Capital Management LLC. The rejected came in today and SEC released the official document confirming the same.

SEC document Link: https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/nysearca/2018/34-83904.pdf

Now my point is that, it is actually good for the market. The market was living on a false hope and SEC finally pulled the plug out. No more false hope will certainly help to recover the market. Newbies were excited about the news of ETF without knowing the fact. Let me point out a few for noobs.

1. The proposed ETF was meant for institiutional investors and not for common people like us.

2. The underlying asset for the proposed ETF was CME future contracts. No physical bitcoins were proposed to be purchased resulting zero impact.

3. SEC used your excitement to control the market price of bitcoin to some extent. With every delay announcement, market took a dip because you guys thought this ETF will be a great addition to the market. Wrong!

Now the ETF has been rejected by SEC, please don't let your emotion to ruin the market. The less numbers of regulated products around crypto, the better! The decision will help the market survive without intervention of SEC. So rejoice and cheer!

All of these factors that you have taken time to itemise does not change anything if the effect is not seen in the price of bitcoin as that is the language the newbies and even majority of participants understands. Every other thing on the contrary are merely expression of opinion that does not add real value.

In this dispensation of ETF, I was happy that we can all move on to something else rather than the situation where all discussions around crypto and bitcoin specifically was hanging around ETF approval or disapproval. Another thing worthy note is that since the news broke, (at least that I read about it) the price of bitcoin has made some appreciation which means the effect is not felt and participants quickly adjust to the current phenomenon.

Gozie51

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Quote from: avikz on August 23, 2018, 04:39:14 AM

One thing we need to understand that, we don't need them, instead they need us! Also all of these proposed ETFs are build for institutional investors and not for common people like us!

Yes, the institutional investors are the ones that in the right sense, needs the approval so that they can get into the main stream of bitcoin transactions because they are big users and that will help their business in being more flexible and grow more . But as it is now, they don't have choice than to continue the skeletal usage they have been doing before.

To show that the ETF is not actually for small investors, the price have started appreciating. I believe people who are hoarding transactions in expectation of a pump with the approval by SEC, has started being themselves Grin

And market has started being neutral and natural, being determined by market indicators and forces. We might see another surprise before the end of this year as expected before all the ETF news.

milewilda

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Quote from: avikz on August 22, 2018, 06:28:26 PM

~snip~

Very well said. Most noobs or even some of investors do really have these kind of beliefs which they do see ETF is something that can make the entire market pumped up without even knowing whats the real purpose or things behind it. For now on the recent rejection i havent seen major price reaction or dumped but just a typical reduction when bitcoin price hit up on 6800 and then goes back to 6300.These kind of fundamentals can certainly affect market when investors are being too emotional on whats currently happening but the fact this isnt really a major thing at all.

1NV3ST0NM3

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SEC rejects bitcoin ETFs
The latest rejection involves two ETFs filed by ProShares that would track bitcoin futures contracts, another from GraniteShares, and five leveraged and inverse ETFs from Direxion.
Similar to its rejection of the Winklevoss ETF, the SEC expressed concern about fraud and manipulation of bitcoin markets. The latest rejection involves two ETFs filed by ProShares that would track bitcoin futures contracts, another from GraniteShares, and five leveraged and inverse ETFs from Direxion.

This follows on the heels of the SEC's rejection of the Winklevloss ETF in July that would have traded physical bitcoin.
(Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/22/sec-rejects-bitcoin-etfs.html )

Maybe this rejection is the reality of today, but trust me, this is not going to last any sooner because ETF will stream on shortly. ETF for bitcoin is actually resented by most of the members of the community and that in fact is not even required also.

Lucius

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Quote from: avikz on August 23, 2018, 04:39:14 AM

Right you are! But SEC is going to reject it as well knowing that physical bitcoins will be bought for that ETF. How can SEC let fiat money coming to bitcoin market? That will not serve their purpose of blowing us dry! So they will keep delaying the proposals until they win over the newbie emotions. That's a badass game. Market had reacted to their decisions earlier and there's no sign that it will not react again! One thing we need to understand that, we don't need them, instead they need us! Also all of these proposed ETFs are build for institutional investors and not for common people like us!

This is something else, your theory is that SEC is refuses BTC ETFs for reasons to prevent fiat flow in crypto market? But each of these investors who may invest in BTC through ETF, can do it today in other ways. Also I do not see any greater effect of ETFs on BTC price, it still hold above 6000$ and it is like that for long time. On first rumors about ETF price has risen to 8000$, but only for short time - for me whales manipulate with price and make some profits. Same as yesterday 400$ up and shortly down after that, pure manipulation.

I agree that we do not need them, but there is also no way to stop them to one day BTC ETF become live. It may be in few months, or maybe in few years, some say they will never allow something like ETF for BTC.

avikz

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Quote from: Lucius on August 23, 2018, 04:06:47 AM

Quote from: avikz on August 22, 2018, 06:28:26 PM

As some of you may already know about it, that SEC finally rejected the ETF that was proposed by Proshare Capital Management LLC. The rejected came in today and SEC released the official document confirming the same.

SEC document Link: https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/nysearca/2018/34-83904.pdf

Now my point is that, it is actually good for the market. The market was living on a false hope and SEC finally pulled the plug out. No more false hope will certainly help to recover the market. Newbies were excited about the news of ETF without knowing the fact. Let me point out a few for noobs.

1. The proposed ETF was meant for institiutional investors and not for common people like us.

2. The underlying asset for the proposed ETF was CME future contracts. No physical bitcoins were proposed to be purchased resulting zero impact.

3. SEC used your excitement to control the market price of bitcoin to some extent. With every delay announcement, market took a dip because you guys thought this ETF will be a great addition to the market. Wrong!

Now the ETF has been rejected by SEC, please don't let your emotion to ruin the market. The less numbers of regulated products around crypto, the better! The decision will help the market survive without intervention of SEC. So rejoice and cheer!

SEC is rejected proposals from ProShares, but also at the same time from GraniteShares and Direxion. Before that they rejected Winklevoss ETF also, and all of these proposals have not actually had a real chance. Only ETF that should have some impact on BTC price is from VanEck SolidX Bitcoin Trust, and this ETF is BTC physically-backed, so if big investors buy shares in fund they need to be backed by real BTC.

It is true that this is for big players, but if they decide to invest in BTC, market will react with price increase. Many would like that BTC ETF never happens, but there is no way to stop interested parties to continue submiting new proposals.

This story is far from over, next "big date" is September 30 - new date for CBOE VanEck SolidX ETF, but probably it will be rejected again and postponed for December or even next year.

Right you are! But SEC is going to reject it as well knowing that physical bitcoins will be bought for that ETF. How can SEC let fiat money coming to bitcoin market? That will not serve their purpose of blowing us dry! So they will keep delaying the proposals until they win over the newbie emotions. That's a badass game. Market had reacted to their decisions earlier and there's no sign that it will not react again! One thing we need to understand that, we don't need them, instead they need us! Also all of these proposed ETFs are build for institutional investors and not for common people like us!

Lucius

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Quote from: avikz on August 22, 2018, 06:28:26 PM

As some of you may already know about it, that SEC finally rejected the ETF that was proposed by Proshare Capital Management LLC. The rejected came in today and SEC released the official document confirming the same.

SEC document Link: https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/nysearca/2018/34-83904.pdf

Now my point is that, it is actually good for the market. The market was living on a false hope and SEC finally pulled the plug out. No more false hope will certainly help to recover the market. Newbies were excited about the news of ETF without knowing the fact. Let me point out a few for noobs.

1. The proposed ETF was meant for institiutional investors and not for common people like us.

2. The underlying asset for the proposed ETF was CME future contracts. No physical bitcoins were proposed to be purchased resulting zero impact.

3. SEC used your excitement to control the market price of bitcoin to some extent. With every delay announcement, market took a dip because you guys thought this ETF will be a great addition to the market. Wrong!

Now the ETF has been rejected by SEC, please don't let your emotion to ruin the market. The less numbers of regulated products around crypto, the better! The decision will help the market survive without intervention of SEC. So rejoice and cheer!

SEC is rejected proposals from ProShares, but also at the same time from GraniteShares and Direxion. Before that they rejected Winklevoss ETF also, and all of these proposals have not actually had a real chance. Only ETF that should have some impact on BTC price is from VanEck SolidX Bitcoin Trust, and this ETF is BTC physically-backed, so if big investors buy shares in fund they need to be backed by real BTC.

It is true that this is for big players, but if they decide to invest in BTC, market will react with price increase. Many would like that BTC ETF never happens, but there is no way to stop interested parties to continue submiting new proposals.

This story is far from over, next "big date" is September 30 - new date for CBOE VanEck SolidX ETF, but probably it will be rejected again and postponed for December or even next year.

sunsilk

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People hoped for this event that will bring the market rise again but I personally understood it on how it can impact to the small people like us who thrives on bitcoin. I've watched a person discussed on how this can make the decentralized market becomes a semi because of this interaction.

Many are misinformed with this and all they think is that ETF is the only hope for bitcoin to rise and reach again its next all time high. But still there's another hope for them as some proposals were delayed until September.

jseverson

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Quote from: avikz on August 22, 2018, 06:28:26 PM

3. SEC used your excitement to control the market price of bitcoin to some extent. With every delay announcement, market took a dip because you guys thought this ETF will be a great addition to the market. Wrong!

Did this actually happen? I know a few people were upset by the delays and the eventual rejection, but I never really observed any significant market reaction besides the initial one that bumped prices up to $8k.

But yeah, people waiting for an ETF approval shouldn't hold their breaths. Here is a roadblock that probably cannot be addressed in the near future:

Quote from: https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/nysearca/2018/34-83904.pdf

Rather, the Commission is disapproving this
proposed rule change because, as discussed below, the Exchange has not met its burden under
the Exchange Act and the Commission’s Rules of Practice to demonstrate that its proposal is
consistent with the requirements of the Exchange Act Section 6(b)(5), in particular the
requirement that a national securities exchange’s rules be designed to prevent fraudulent and
manipulative acts and practices

There are other ETFs pending for approval if I remember correctly, and if the SEC can be at least a little consistent with their rulings, they're going to get denied as well.

St4yInTh3D4rk

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"STAY IN THE DARK"

As you said this is actually food news for the investors they will realize that in long term and also now they will lose their false hope that the price will dump or bump due to their desicion,I hope now the investors will back to normal conditions as to invest based on the current market situation

avikz

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As some of you may already know about it, that SEC finally rejected the ETF that was proposed by Proshare Capital Management LLC. The rejected came in today and SEC released the official document confirming the same.

SEC document Link: https://www.sec.gov/rules/sro/nysearca/2018/34-83904.pdf

Now my point is that, it is actually good for the market. The market was living on a false hope and SEC finally pulled the plug out. No more false hope will certainly help to recover the market. Newbies were excited about the news of ETF without knowing the fact. Let me point out a few for noobs.

1. The proposed ETF was meant for institiutional investors and not for common people like us.

2. The underlying asset for the proposed ETF was CME future contracts. No physical bitcoins were proposed to be purchased resulting zero impact.

3. SEC used your excitement to control the market price of bitcoin to some extent. With every delay announcement, market took a dip because you guys thought this ETF will be a great addition to the market. Wrong!

Now the ETF has been rejected by SEC, please don't let your emotion to ruin the market. The less numbers of regulated products around crypto, the better! The decision will help the market survive without intervention of SEC. So rejoice and cheer!

Topic: Proposed ETF rejected by SEC - great news for the market! (Read 368 times)