Topic: Prosecution to use Caroline Ellison notes as evidence against SBF (Read 526 times)

A smart investor will never store, trade, or invest money on one exchange.
The risks of centralized exchanges have long been known to everyone.
And his investments in real estate are not that big when compared to the total losses of investors. Investors may receive part of the money after the sale of real estate.
I think the worst thing is to be awaiting punishment.

Personally I just feel he's not good at business administration because with the way he looted those funds and channeled them into Alameda, you'd think that he'd have something to fall back on when things go south, but it turned out that not even the donations he made to the US political campaigns or even the money in which he used in investing in real estate can be accounted for. Seriously, he deserves the time he'd be given to spend in jail cause when you think of how many customers funds; most of them hard earned that just went down the drain, you would even wish the judge sped up the process.

SBF used money from clients of the FTX exchange to save its partner business and failed very badly.
And then we see posts like this
https://twitter.com/Travis_Kling/status/1721985690496291064
"Today marks the one year anniversary of the worst day of my career and one of the worst days of my life - the day FTX froze withdrawals."

If you watch the latest SBF movie, you will know why he wore those shorts

It's not news of what he did to the public but I'm beginning to feel that although he was sentenced to a 100+ years in prison, there's also the possibility of him not getting up to that number of years according to what some legal expert believe, citing that federal sentencing guidelines are sky-high.
What I got here suggests he may spend that amount, citing the case of Bernie Madoff . When he eventually gets imprisoned, I know another case will come up to sweep his under the carpet. Maybe they'd only use it as a reference just as they've done with this Bernie Madoff person.

Thank you @bbc.reporter and @zazad. It's just that they have been prolonging the case and I would really like to see it put to bed. I'm beginning to get tired of the whole drama, but lets see the appeal the defence counsel would come up with.

SBF didn't just scam US citizens alone but users from all nooks and crannies of the world who had funds on FTX. The fact that he's a US citizen makes the case more interesting, and everyone wants to see the outcome and I'm hoping they would do the right thing.

Further charges? Do you think they'd think it necessary seeing as he has that number of years to stay in prison? I'm just saying that considering how much he has caused his customers to lose funds, it won't matter if he gets to 50years or 25, give him 3 years in prison and everything is forgotten and those who lost may have moved on with their lives.

 I'm curious though, if he gets this amount of jail time as the principal culprit in this fraud case, what does our dear Carol get? Or has a plea helped to reduce the punishment?

"Jurors reached a decision to convict on all seven counts in under five hours on Thursday, a judgment as surprisingly swift and decisive as the trial itself.
Bankman-Fried’s sentencing will take place March 28, 2024. He faces as much as 110 years in prison. The final sentence may be more like 25-50 years, but his deceptive testimony will do him no favors.
The government has until February 1 to decide whether to pursue a second trial for further charges, including campaign finance fraud and bribery."
https://protos.com/sam-bankman-frieds-trial-is-over-what-now/

In this article I found the latest news about Sam Bankman-Fried's stay in prison:

What to know about Sam Bankman-Fried's time in jail
https://www.reuters.com/legal/what-we-know-about-sam-bankman-frieds-time-notorious-brooklyn-jail-2023-09-27/

This criminal case has a strong political connotation, which is why it is dragging on. There are also cases in prisons when a defendant does not live to see trial due to health problems.

Don't be too optimistic about SBF's prison sentence, this is a financial crime and he's no Bernie Madoff so I don't think that he will be serving that long because there was some post back then that says that SBF was able to give gifts to some people on both the democratic and republican party of the US government which can only mean that SBF has probably secured some sort of contact that's going to help him big time in this trial. Regards to the diary, I'm not sure about it being a solid evidence but it can be argued that diaries are mostly consisting of truth so there's a possibility that it's going to hold up in court despite what other replies says.

You are asking the right question, but the answer is obvious, because there are people in politics who do not want SBF to go to prison, so the case will drag on. At the end of March 2024, new circumstances may again appear in the case and the trial will be postponed again. SBF rarely makes news anymore, and over time he will be forgotten.

@sokani. I have always assumed that the time between the verdict and the sentence for the defendant to be given time to make an appeal because what if the defendant is really innocent? I am not telling you that Sam Bankrupt-Fraud is innocent, however, there certainly are people who were wrongfully given the guilty verdict.

Another reason might be to give the defendant time to prepare. Similar to Sam, he will be going in for 110 years. I reckon it is fair to give him his time for preparation.

The 110 years is the maximum sentence he could get for his crimes. I know he's certainly not going to be slammed with that number of years, but I wish he could get more that what Zasad wrote.

Since the trial has come to an end, they jury have found him guilty of the seven count charges leveled against him and they've also reached a verdict. My question is, why waiting until March 28, 2024 before passing a verdict against him? Why not do it now that the trial has just ended and the case is still fresh in the hearts of everyone?

https://crypto.news/lawyer-expects-around-20-years-of-jail-time-for-sam-bankman-fried/
Bankman-Fried could face 15 to 20 years of jail time
"If the jury convicts Bankman-Fried, the judge will be responsible for deciding the duration of his sentence, according to Lesperance. He says the sentencing will hinge on the specific charges for which he is found guilty and the relevant sentencing guidelines.

Furthermore, the judge will take into account the fact that Bankman-Fried has no prior criminal record. The sum of money involved in the alleged wrongdoings is another vital aspect that will be considered, Lesperance says.
“If the U.S. Justice Department feels that any U.S. politicians on either side of the aisle have committed either campaign finance violations or honest services fraud (i.e. a scheme to defraud another of the intangible right to honest services through a scheme to violate a fiduciary duty by bribery or kickbacks), then we might see future indictments.”

“In reality, with US federal charges he would serve only 85% of that time […] being to 12.75 to 17 years. Given that SBF is currently 31, he could be out in his mid to late 40s.”

David Lesperance, managing director at Lesperance & Associates told crypto.news. "

Whoever steals billions will serve a short term in prison.

@zasad@. Sam is found guilty of all charges.

In any case, Sam Tabasco was liquidated and retired on his yacht with more money held than all of the executives from Alameda and FTX. Caroline and Wang might get a slap on the wrist and a jackpot of cryptocoins held in hidden wallets. Sam goes to prison quietly for 110 years without Adderall and the politicians who laundered their money in FTX can relax hehe.

Nobody will return the money, and even if you look at the history of such scams, it was always possible to return only a small part of the money. SBF is a clown who played his part and he is more likely to get a prison sentence. But in the USA there are different prisons, and in some the conditions are better than those of people outside. We need to see what prison he will be sent to after the court verdict.

So are you saying whoever wins the election will kindly donate back $9bn back to help pay customers their lost money? Nah, I don't think so. That would be raising too much eyebrows if you ask me. This will get people talking and they'd be like; "ooh, here's the dude that was in cohorts with Sam that made him cart all our funds away just to support his campaign". I feel whoever wins will be forever indebted to him for his generous donations and that will just be it.
 It's painful but if I were these customers, I'd move on and accept the fact that I'm not getting my money back instead of holding up hope. I guess this the bitter lesson one learns when  they leave their funds in centralized exchanges.

Here you need to keep an eye on 2 points.
If the exchange returns money to clients, then the charges will not be so severe. Although 9 billion is a large amount and I have not yet understood this plan.


https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2023/10/17/ftx-plans-to-return-90-of-customer-funds-but-theres-a-catch/
FTX Plans to Return 90% of Customer Funds, but There's a Catch
"An amended proposal released early Tuesday will be filed by the FTX Debtors by mid-December if approved."


And it is very important who wins the elections, because part of the money is used to finance politicians.

She could be pardoned after her tell all, but since she pleaded to two counts of fraud and five counts of conspiracy, probably she too could serve time only hers could be short compared to Sam's. Honestly, I feel sorry for her because prior to working for Alameda she said she'd never believe she would help falsify records and give to her clients but overtime, and with continuous practice, it became like second nature to her..pfft! So, she's the ggid girl gone bad of Alameda, yeah. I am just waiting to see how all these ends.

Yes, and I think even though she pleaded guilty, but being the star witness, for sure her lawyer has work out something and she could be out of the jail very early. So he is telling everything in court just to save face.

But I do agree that there could be a lot of drama, pointing finger and accusations, kind of manipulation and this for sure will be used by Carol on his side that somewhat all the blame is to be put on SBF. Also I like to see CZ getting on the witness stand, hehehe.

https://dailycoin.com/ellison-partly-blames-changpeng-zhaos-tweet-for-ftx-fall/
"Ellison believes CZ might have contributed to FTX’s implosion.
The former Alameda CEO asserted at SBF’s trial.
CZ had vehemently denied the claim last year.
Former Alameda CEO Caroline Ellison, who is also the prosecution star witness in the Sam Bankman-Fried (SBF) criminal trial, claimed in court that a tweet from Binance CEO Changpeng “CZ” Zhao contributed to the implosion of the FTX crypto exchange."
Ellison will tell you a lot of interesting information, and her interview about risk management was fabulous.

Your sense of humor is soothing..  ..He wouldn't call it bribing, mind you. Call it a generous donation towards a future course. Sam will tell you he acted like any businessman would; giving something to expect something in return. I still don't understand what gives him the belief he can be able to run a country like America because for all we know, he has no political bone in his body! The only thing linking him with politics is his generous donations and that's that. Except he'd play the role of ceremonial leader, while his vice does all the work. That's if he gets the chance.
You shouldn't blame our dear Carol! She saw an out and she took it. It's not as if what she's saying are accusations. I feel it's this way because Sam Bank Friedman committed the crime and is trying to shift most of the blame on her.

The saga should end after the elections, and I think that Sam Bankman-Frida's prison sentence will depend on the election results. It is understood that Sam Bankman-Fried will receive a prison sentence, but the number of years behind bars is important.

It's really funny reading that he was even nurturing the thoughts of becoming the president of united states, the most powerful country on earth. What a joke! I wonder how he could have achieved this because he certainly cannot bribe his way to the white house. Well, his presidential dreams are not yet shattered, it's well intact. I guess he can still become the president while cooling off in prison, I mean the president of inmates.

The trial is getting interesting and Caroline Ellison is singing like a canary, she's spilling many secrets of Sam Friedman shady dealings and I hope he gets nailed for his crimes very soon.

Well this is a lot to process. Whew! When we think the dust of the FTX saga is beginning to settle, more drama just seems to come up. Well I would not blame Caroline Ellison as she has decided to spill the beans because if you look at it, there's nothing in it for her. Sam's no longer interested in her, Alameda is gone...why not tell all?
But the thought of Sam vying for a presidential spot is quite laughable, yunno. Asides from the fact that he might not get much votes. Does he really think Biden would return the favor he did for him back in 2020? Heck no!

I thought it would be fun, but this is too much
https://news.sky.com/story/sam-bankman-fried-fallen-crypto-king-wanted-to-be-us-president-star-witness-caroline-ellison-tells-fraud-trial-12982069
"Sam Bankman-Fried: Fallen crypto king wanted to be US president, star witness Caroline Ellison tells fraud trial
FTX used to be the world's second-largest exchange. In the days before it went bankrupt, Sam Bankman-Fried's net worth plunged by 94% in a single day - the biggest wealth collapse a billionaire has ever suffered in such a short space of time."

In Russian criminal practice, whoever begins to hand over accomplices first is the witness, and the rest are the accused. It's the same here. If the investigators wanted to solve a major crime, they would arrest everyone and collect evidence, which is very much. And since this case has political overtones, we will see many more interesting twists and turns.

@Bushdark. Agreed. There will certainly be much drama in this trial and I speculate that CZ's name will be mentioned many times and it will be implied that CZ caused the collapse of FTX because of his dump on FTT without any mention that FTT was being used as collateral for Alameda Research's leverage trades.

On customer funds, they would be very lucky if they receive them within 2 years. The distribution might happen similar to Mtgox.

There is something we'll missing that we haven't gotten. If the case process in the way I expected it there will be a lot of drama in the court and I hope things wouldn't get worse for the FTX boss. I can't wait to see the end to this evidence which can be manipulated at any form and the contrary could later happen. A I care right now is for part of the customers funds to be returned from because many are still suffering from the trauma of fall of FTX.

Agreed. Sam and Caroline were also rumored to be lovers. This implies that they trusted each other. I would not be shocked if they had a scheme on how they can move the funds of FTX's customers around to cover Caroline Ellison's trading losses in Alameda.

Can Sam testify in court that he was being manipulated by Caroline through sex and drugs?

Doesn't matter if it's personal, it's evidence of things that have happened and if they can link the discussion presented there to actual events and actions FTX or Alameda took it it will prove they were aware of things and they can't claim they did stuff by mistake. If SBF only defense against those accusations will be that the transcripts are fake, that is revenge etc , etc he will simply be asked what happened in reality, at which point, he knows he is screwed.

I'm pretty sure Caroline thought of this thing when she realized things were becoming dangerous or from the start she wanted to have some dirt on the others, but that doesn't change the content.


You're speaking from personal experience?
SBF is in a detention center, if ever convicted he will be moved to an FCI, there are virtually zero chances for him to be sentenced for time there.

It's not a long time at all due to the nature of what happened and the fact that he probably will have a jury trial.
The prosecutors what everything to be perfect. Because, if the prosecution messes up on 1 charge that they can't really prove, they then give the jury a reason to question all the other charges they brought.

As for letting in the stuff from Caroline as evidence. It's a risk for both sides. SBF can go with the 'scorned or wronged woman' attack against her or the 'she was the mastermind he just went along since he was getting laid' attack against her. There have been a lot of successful uses of these things against what appeared to be definitive evidence over the years. Let's be honest, guys only, raise your hand if you ever did something monumentally stupid because of a woman. You in the back raise your hand I know you did something.....

On the defense not wanting the evidence in, if she comes across as the young woman who did not know any better and was in awe of him and so on. It allows the prosecution to give a step by step guide of what happened by someone who was there. So if the prosecution can convince a jury of her story then SBF gets it worse.

In the end he will probably plead out and get some time in Danbury Federal Country Club correctional institution.

-Dave

You made a point here. It can be inadmissible considering there's not some sort of a video recorded where he said what the diary accuses him of. But it's quite weird that he is the one to submit the diary, probably he wants to discredit her or something. I mean why release such sensitive info to the public, evidence that could help ensure you rot in prison if proven, right? I didn't know he was that dumb.

This is called slander. When the testimony of two participants in the case is opposite, they are not taken into account if there are no other evidence.

Even if she will testify, This kind of evidence is still inadmissible imho because there's sign that SBF is indeed said that. An evidence need to have something that the suspect himself show involvement such as signature, picture doing it or a material own by the suspect himself because this kind of evidence can be manipulated if they will accept someone that list other crime.

Think about if one of your friend that has hatred to you wrote about a crime that he did then involved you while you really doesn't have any involvement.

It is not always possible to solve such issues with bribes. In the United States, elections are coming soon, there will be a lot of political dirt and smart politicians will not risk their positions. Even after the court verdict, when information about the SBF rarely appears in the news feed, it is possible to make the SBF serve his sentence in a good prison. And now he is not in the best position. I said that it is necessary to watch in which prison he will remain now.

If you own a corrupt exchange like FTX and a lot of money to bribe politicians and finance elections, you will surely have internet in prison and all the luxuries you want to have, a simple bribe to corrupt politicians and everything is solved.

It is a shame that the case has taken so long Despite the clear evidence and the clear implication of Sam Bankman-Fried on all counts against him, it is a shame to see such things in the country that describes itself as the largest free democracy in the world.

I think that the American and Russian turbans are very different. In America, a prison is also a business and there are many private prisons for people who have committed minor crimes. Some private prisons do not even have a fence, and prisoners can work, but they are forbidden to leave a certain area. Therefore, the SBF has a chance to get into one of these prisons.

It is the safest thinking for everyone who is still in their thirties or forties, ~10-20 years is not a lot, and the person may return to life again and try to say that he is a victim of a conspiracy, and this is what I think will happen. My only regret is for the victims' money, which they may recover after several years, and they may not be able to.

Do you get internet in that prison? This is a low-cost vacation, not a prison.

I would wait for information about which prison the SBF will be in. If he stays in a federal facility in Brooklyn, it will be bad for him. If he was transferred to another, more comfortable prison with Internet in Putnam County, it would be a completely different matter. But the most interesting thing is that Caroline Ellison, Gary Wang (FTX co-founder) and Nishada Singha (FTX chief engineer) have already pleaded guilty and are cooperating with the government.

I quickly looked at the list of charges against him and it seems that they are sufficient to imprison him for about 20 years. Given the rapid collapse of FTX, there is inevitably mismanagement and exploitation of clients' money. Therefore, accepting the charges and accepting about 10 years in prison is a logical option, especially since his age is still young and he has life. Although I hope that more details will be revealed so that we know how bad and random the management of the platforms is.

I can't believe this dumbass thought it was a good idea to leak his girlfriend's diary which is now being used as evidence against him. What was he thinking? 

Anyway, he's in jail now at least, and it's likely that he'll get sentenced to even more jail time when this court trial is wrapped up.


The SEC is, indeed, the worst crime organization. Mess with them, and you will get ripped apart 

You wouldn't blame her though. It's as if she's suddenly realized how mixing with SBF was such a bad idea. If I was him, I'd gladly do as she did by cooperating with the prosecution and pleading guilty rather than prolonging the whole issue. From what we know, she is his principal accomplice even though there are others.
 The way I see it, if they (the prosecution) decide to dig up some his dirty dealings, it wouldn't end there and he should stop acting like he was accused for something he didn't do.

Do you think that this guy did not understand that he was engaged in criminal activities, as a result of which many people and commercial organizations lost their money?
But to be honest, he still has a chance to get a small prison term.
I think that he is still needed for high-profile revelations before the US elections, so his criminal case is in progress.

Suddenly this story changed a lot and it seem like Caroline is throwing SBF under the bus. Plea bargain for Sweet Caroline while SBF takes the fall after all the people will still be blaming him for what happened to the funds under his watch.


Too bad for the kid to have mixed himself with the worse crime organization. Somebody has to fall anyway and it wouldn't be Carol nor Gensler or anyone else from the ones SBF had bribed. SBF used to have access to media where he can be interviewed and even attend conferences, it is different this time. 

This is another news story. In the US, there are 2 types of lawsuit. In the first version, Sam Bankman-Freed agrees with all the charges, cooperates with the authorities, and the trial takes place in a fast procedure with a minimum sentence. If Sam Bankman-Freed refuses, and agrees to a jury trial, then if found guilty, he may receive a long prison sentence or be acquitted. The jury will decide whose testimony is more honest.

You are right. But considering she'd be testifying, that can count as something. Granted, he can deny these sayings as just mere sayings on her part, but a personal diary can contain relevant evidence which can be discoverable. Her notes seem to detail meetings with herself and SBF where he disclosed some issues about the company to her and this can serve as evidence, right? Well I'm not an expert. I guess we'd find how it all went down
Thanks. I've fixed it.

Did the US Department of Justice collect little evidence on this fool?
The problem here is that these 2 main drug addicts and their team did not act independently, and they had their patrons in higher authorities. Therefore, next year we will see even more vivid rhetoric of some American politicians before the elections.

Does notes such as personal diary can be use as evidence to a case? Since everything that listed in there is just a personal opinion the owner(Caroline) which makes it a hearsay imho since that is not SBF actual hand writing or anything that will prove that SBF really did it unless there's a picture and proper documentation to support what it's stating.

You attached too a wrong source. Probably, you mean this article https://decrypt.co/152650/prosecutors-use-caroline-ellisons-personal-notes-evidence-against-sbf

 Fresh trouble looms for former FTX CEO Sam Bankman-Fried as prosecutors seek to use the personal notes of sister trading firm Alameda former CEO, Caroline Ellison as evidence against him..
 The prosecution intends to present into evidence some handwritten and typed notes that Ellison had maintained to keep track of the conspiracy's activities, also citing notes from previous meetings that discussed the financial health of Alameda and it's liability to FTX.
According to the prosecution, these notes are to memorialize info supplied to her to provide a reference to help carry out her role in the conspiracy.
 Just last week, he was arrested after the US DOJ discovered that the gag order placed against him to avoid making statements that might obstruct a fair trial was not enough.
Sam looks to be in deep shit as Caroline, who used to be in a romantic relationship with him would be one of the key witnesses against him.
 Her notes also offer insights to the day to day operations of the allegedly fraudulent activities at FTX and this includes a recording of Ellison in a meeting on Nov 9, 2022 two days before FTX and Alameda filed for bankruptcy.

 Personally, I think this issue has lingered for far too long and hope this new evidence should see him cooling off in prison for a very long time for mismanaging the funds of both investors and users.

https://decrypt.co/152650/prosecutors-use-caroline-ellisons-personal-notes-evidence-against-sbf