Provably Fair Extension | Quickly Verify Provably Fair Bets from Your Browser

imstillthebest

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Quote from: Lakai01 on May 06, 2020, 12:17:57 PM

Quote from: buwaytress on May 06, 2020, 03:17:35 AM

Thanks for the feedback Lakai.

You are welcome!

Quote from: Pmalek on May 06, 2020, 04:31:42 AM

I have never given much thought to the provably fair concept because I don't like to deposit big on new and unknown casinos. The provably fair scheme can be checked directly on the casino websites, can it not?

"provably fair" basically does not protect you from being scamed. So if a new online platform advertises to be "provably fair", it only means that the results of previous rolls are disclosed and can be recalculated either manually or with tools.
Many sites also offer so called "verifiers", where you can have the result recalculated. If a site has bad intentions, it is easy to manipulate the verifier, too. Pages that value transparency provide the code of the verifiers and host them e.g. on Github. So everyone can check if they work properly.

thanks for that small tip . i didnt knew that those stuffs can be cheated too but what i though is that once a site has a verifier and your bet matches to the verifier that already means that they are legit but i was wrong . there are people that checks all thier bets which is hassel but with the help of this tool here they can now automate the proces but for now this is only support one site . i dont verify my bets most of the time but i am confident already if im playing on a trusted and old age casinos .

Lakai01

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Quote from: buwaytress on May 06, 2020, 03:17:35 AM

Thanks for the feedback Lakai.

You are welcome!

Quote from: Pmalek on May 06, 2020, 04:31:42 AM

I have never given much thought to the provably fair concept because I don't like to deposit big on new and unknown casinos. The provably fair scheme can be checked directly on the casino websites, can it not?

"provably fair" basically does not protect you from being scamed. So if a new online platform advertises to be "provably fair", it only means that the results of previous rolls are disclosed and can be recalculated either manually or with tools.
Many sites also offer so called "verifiers", where you can have the result recalculated. If a site has bad intentions, it is easy to manipulate the verifier, too. Pages that value transparency provide the code of the verifiers and host them e.g. on Github. So everyone can check if they work properly.

Pmalek

legendary

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It is a nice idea and thumbs up to you for implementing it! A big portion of the things we see around here are scams and scam attempts. You have to understand the skepticism of people, including me, when a script or browser extension is posted. Someone with a developer background should probably check it first.

I have never given much thought to the provably fair concept because I don't like to deposit big on new and unknown casinos. The provably fair scheme can be checked directly on the casino websites, can it not?

Ucy

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Quote from: lucasholder on May 04, 2020, 07:29:58 AM

Thanks for the replies everyone. I didn't dare to check for a while because I thought it didn't have any replies.

Quote from: buwaytress on April 26, 2020, 05:09:37 AM

Hi there! A good idea, a very good one actually but maybe because people need to see it work across several sites. I'll give you a few to start off with, based on where I've played dice or know dice is popular:

1. Crypto.games
2. Bitsler
3. Bitvest
4. 999dice
5. Fairlay
6. Yolodice
7. Freebitco.in

It could be tricky but if you could really interface with regular casino software:
1. Sportsbet
2. FortuneJack
3. Bitcasino
4. Bitcoinrush
5. Betcoin

Get your code open source too. And have as much detail as possible for a newbie to understand how your extension verifies provably fair (maybe even a tutorial inside to teach them) and you might have something on your hands. Don't worry, new extensions will be difficult to break through as people rightly won't trust it. Maybe work with a couple of owners to suggest your extension.

Thanks for all the suggestions! I was planning to integrate more sites but got a bit discouraged to be honest. I will follow on with some of your suggestions. The library code is already open source but I will open source the UI code as well after some cleaning up.

I think the open source aspect is enough to discourage people and you. Betting sites owners/admins need to be very sure what they are allowing on their sites.
I really like the post on your provable fair extension. Just hope the code transparency issue is addressed before I could encourage people to try it out.

buwaytress

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Thanks for the feedback Lakai. I do remember trying to find a place that tracked volumes maybe 2/3 years back when I was choosing places to put my bankroll investment into. I ended up at CGN, but now that they've closed investment options, I withdrew and moved only a portion to pad up existing ones at Bitvest. I always think there the wagers are is where I should invest, variance notwithstanding, and somehow skipped over Bustadice before. Maychance I look them up some time soon.

@OP sorry for hijacking the thread somewhat, but I hope the related discussion helps bring attention to your PV project!

Lakai01

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Quote from: buwaytress on May 05, 2020, 05:41:17 AM

Good call, but I wonder how accurate that site is? Still lists Peercoin on CGN when it's not been around there since at least last year (can't remember). If busta's still pulling it all that volume, then yeah, def worth a pop.

hmm ... that's actually a good question whether the data is still accurate. You can get detailed information about the respective platform via the link "More info & stats", there the values are changing at least continuously.
Regarding PeerCoin in CGN ...it looks like that no data is listed here since June 2019:

In comparison, the following values are still displayed for Bustadice from yesterday:

(links to the images are embedded, just click on them)

buwaytress

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Quote from: Lakai01 on May 04, 2020, 11:27:36 AM

I would also add bustadice here to the list of the most popular/frequently used sites (and not only because I wear their signature Wink

). Bustadice is still one of the sites where a lot of BTC are wagered, as this statistic here shows:

Good call, but I wonder how accurate that site is? Still lists Peercoin on CGN when it's not been around there since at least last year (can't remember). If busta's still pulling it all that volume, then yeah, def worth a pop.

Now that you show it too, that's an excellent other data we'd all love to look at. Volume at PV sites!

20kevin20

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Good job OP, don't let yourself discouraged. Keep trying to reach your goals and maybe few people notice your work now but on the long term it's going to be worth it. It's just that your extension does not have much visibility as most people here chase post count and don't give a damn about serious subjects posted here.

Just wondering, you have mentioned in OP the following:

Quote

The extension is built with Rust + WebAssembly (fast!) for the verification library code. The library code is open source (..)

Does this mean it's entirely open source or just partially?

Lakai01

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Quote from: buwaytress on April 26, 2020, 05:09:37 AM

-snip-
1. Crypto.games
2. Bitsler
3. Bitvest
4. 999dice
5. Fairlay
6. Yolodice
7. Freebitco.in
-snip-

I would also add bustadice here to the list of the most popular/frequently used sites (and not only because I wear their signature Wink

). Bustadice is still one of the sites where a lot of BTC are wagered, as this statistic here shows:

(Source for the image is embedded, just click it)

By the way, Bustadice already has its own verifier, the script is hosted at Github, you should be able to integrate it into your plugin quite easily if you want to

buwaytress

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@OP Yeah, no worries, glad you checked back. I know how tough it is to juggle priorities but you'll want to respond quickly to voluntary feedback to maintain momentum. Again, the lists I semi-arbitrarily put up are based only on my experience but I still think the PV concept is one of the most underrated developments in gambling, and if there's a way to make it even dumber for dumb people like me to verify (and help understand how it verifies) then all the better. Open source it and link up with some of the other gambling devs here.

lucasholder

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Thanks for the replies everyone. I didn't dare to check for a while because I thought it didn't have any replies.

Quote from: buwaytress on April 26, 2020, 05:09:37 AM

Hi there! A good idea, a very good one actually but maybe because people need to see it work across several sites. I'll give you a few to start off with, based on where I've played dice or know dice is popular:

1. Crypto.games
2. Bitsler
3. Bitvest
4. 999dice
5. Fairlay
6. Yolodice
7. Freebitco.in

It could be tricky but if you could really interface with regular casino software:
1. Sportsbet
2. FortuneJack
3. Bitcasino
4. Bitcoinrush
5. Betcoin

Get your code open source too. And have as much detail as possible for a newbie to understand how your extension verifies provably fair (maybe even a tutorial inside to teach them) and you might have something on your hands. Don't worry, new extensions will be difficult to break through as people rightly won't trust it. Maybe work with a couple of owners to suggest your extension.

Thanks for all the suggestions! I was planning to integrate more sites but got a bit discouraged to be honest. I will follow on with some of your suggestions. The library code is already open source but I will open source the UI code as well after some cleaning up.

Quote from: kryptqnick on April 26, 2020, 05:19:19 AM

It sounds like a cool thing, but perhaps one of the reasons people don't check it out is the same I have: I am very cautious when it comes to crypto browser extensions because the risk of it being something that scams you just seems too high. Okay, you've shown the demo which looks cool. But I am sure you understand that it doesn't prove that the extension doesn't do anything additionally, such as, say, get the money out of the casino account when a person is logged in and checking if the bet was fair. If you find a way to show that it's safe to use the extension, I am sure it will help make it more popular. Good luck!

I understand your cautiousness. It doesn't request many permissions, for now I don't think it can even read or interact with the pages you visit even if it wanted to (it's just able to read the URL). I will probably make it fully open source and have instructions on compiling and installing by yourself.

xSkylarx

hero member

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This is helpful to verify the bet. I think the reason why there are only a few people interested in this topic is simply that nobody actually cares verifying hashes when gambling as long as they trust the site. I am not tech-savvy and not really familiar on hash verification. The demo seems user friendly. Thank you for sharing.

Russlenat

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Quote from: lucasholder on April 25, 2020, 08:30:56 PM

Maybe I should have posted this in another forum? Project Development forum maybe? Kind of disappointed by the lack of replies Cry

You can't expect a lot of replies since most gamblers are not really technical, we are gambling in a certain site because we trust them, and that's it, we don't have to verify our bet results every time, especially in games that gives instant result, ,like dice for example.

ryzaadit

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Quote from: lucasholder on April 25, 2020, 08:30:56 PM

Kind of disappointed by the lack of replies Cry

Everyone not always checked the provably fair regularly so this its just an additional feature for them, not really important feature went we already can using the provably fair checker from stake too if they want to check the fairness.

Could be everybody still paranoid about the extension too, we don't know what's inside on the extension did contains a word clipper, virus or malware and could be risked their account.

Ucy

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I guess the owners of other betting sites or the crypto betting communities could hire or get you to include other sites... assuming the extention really works well.
Can you build similar thing for mobile betting? Maybe a special app for betting and verifying other sites?

kryptqnick

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It sounds like a cool thing, but perhaps one of the reasons people don't check it out is the same I have: I am very cautious when it comes to crypto browser extensions because the risk of it being something that scams you just seems too high. Okay, you've shown the demo which looks cool. But I am sure you understand that it doesn't prove that the extension doesn't do anything additionally, such as, say, get the money out of the casino account when a person is logged in and checking if the bet was fair. If you find a way to show that it's safe to use the extension, I am sure it will help make it more popular. Good luck!

jademaxsuy

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Don't worry about and you should have made it compatible with other browsers too then many gamblers using other browsers like firefox for example can use your browser extension then verify the game so that they won't be worried about the provability of the game on the site.

buwaytress

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Hi there! A good idea, a very good one actually but maybe because people need to see it work across several sites. I'll give you a few to start off with, based on where I've played dice or know dice is popular:

1. Crypto.games
2. Bitsler
3. Bitvest
4. 999dice
5. Fairlay
6. Yolodice
7. Freebitco.in

It could be tricky but if you could really interface with regular casino software:
1. Sportsbet
2. FortuneJack
3. Bitcasino
4. Bitcoinrush
5. Betcoin

Get your code open source too. And have as much detail as possible for a newbie to understand how your extension verifies provably fair (maybe even a tutorial inside to teach them) and you might have something on your hands. Don't worry, new extensions will be difficult to break through as people rightly won't trust it. Maybe work with a couple of owners to suggest your extension.

Twinkledoe

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Quote from: Chikito on April 26, 2020, 01:03:06 AM

Quote from: lucasholder on April 25, 2020, 08:30:56 PM

Maybe I should have posted this in another forum? Project Development forum maybe? Kind of disappointed by the lack of replies Cry

many reasons for that, Maybe you shared for chrome only were half people using it.

I see only 2 people have downloaded. Are your extension can use without opening stake.com with the condition has all needed to check it Fair?

Don't worry OP, not all players have seen this yet. Just be patient and they will come when you least expect it. Also, I think not many players are familiar with provably fair extension so they need more time to figure this out. But thanks for posting this helpful tip.

Chikito

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Quote from: lucasholder on April 25, 2020, 08:30:56 PM

Maybe I should have posted this in another forum? Project Development forum maybe? Kind of disappointed by the lack of replies Cry

many reasons for that, Maybe you shared for chrome only were half people using it.

I see only 2 people have downloaded. Are your extension can use without opening stake.com with the condition has all needed to check it Fair?

lucasholder

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Maybe I should have posted this in another forum? Project Development forum maybe? Kind of disappointed by the lack of replies Cry

lucasholder

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Activity: 38

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Hi everyone. I'm happy to release Provably Fair, a browser extension that verifies provably fair bets. The game seeds/nonce can either be entered manually or populated automatically when clicking the extension on a Stake.com bet verification page. It supports all games on Stake.com but I'd love to add support for more games and sites (let me know in the comments!).

Provably Fair Extension on Chrome Web Store

Quick demo on Stake:

A longer demo on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chAQkOZBTLs

My long term goal with this extension is to increase the adoption of bet verification and make it more widespread, especially among non technical players. To achieve this goal, it is crucial to reduce the friction of verifying bets and make it easy and understandable. For example, in the future, I'd like the extension to do automatically verify every bets in the background and automatically change client seeds to prevent a site from predicting game outcomes. It's not there yet, but it's on the roadmap!

The extension is built with Rust + WebAssembly (fast!) for the verification library code. The library code is open source and available on GitHub (as well as a command line utility): https://github.com/lucasholder/fair.

If you have no idea what provably fair is, I tried to do an ELI5 it here: https://fairdom.io/how-provably-fair-works

Supported games (compatible with Stake):

Blackjack
Hilo
Baccarat
Diamond Poker
Dice Roll
Limbo
Plinko
Roulette Roll
Keno
Mines
Video Poker
Wheel
Slots
Crash

I'm happy to answer question and feel free to request support for other sites/games.

Cheers,
Lucas

Topic: Provably Fair Extension | Quickly Verify Provably Fair Bets from Your Browser (Read 250 times)