Topic: pump and dump or? (Read 1274 times)

A lot of people have lost money in altcoins too.

yeah, altcoins are promising now, especially that coin-MLS

It is better to trade with altcoins than btc unless you are holding lots of usd
btc movement is too little to profit much without margin.

im not saying all orders of day traders are logged by banks. just deposits withdrawals of $10k+ are flagged

im saying in 2012-2013 exchanges had alot of whales depositing over $10k amounts through exchanges, without worry or care. yes some banks seen that it was large amounts and shut down those customers bank accounts (many topics of people having bank accounts shut down).

but because the exchanges did not communicate large transactions to banks, the banks didntsee much problm. but now due to AMLKYC,when an exchange flags a large payment, banks see the large pyment their side too and start looking into it because they have been contacted via the third party.

so this year now that exchanges are AML/KYC regulated, whales wishing to put $10k+ in to buy bitcoin wont even bother going through the risks and headaches of exchanges. instead what they do is these things

1) purchase via localbitcoins
2) if REALLY large, they VC the money to places like bitpay and then over a month get bitcoins in return (research $30mill bitpay investment)
3) they trade on bitcoin OTC or other private exchanges that only whales know about.

thus as you can see by looking at exchanges these days 98% of order lines are decimal amounts of bitcoins ($5 amounts) and then a big wall order (owned by the exchange to keep values within a certain range)

summary:
whales dont use exchanges no more, definitely not like they did last year and the years before it.

Who is going to check on what when you place big orders? Banks and exchanges check when you move money in and out not when you make orders...
Or do you say that all money are already out of the big exchanges? I find that hard to believe..

quite franky you have not realised that playing with more then 25 coins ($10k) raises red flags, where exchanges and banks start looking into peoples bank deposits and withdrawals.

so these days exchanges are only playing with small amounts for fun. take btc-e as prime example, apart from one whale with 200+ coins setting walls the other orders are a few little men spreading 20btc over many orders, in amounts of around $5-$7 an order.

in short whales are not trading on exchanges due to AMLKYC, instead they are trading on other private places like localbitcoins/bitcoin otc, VC investments, merchant gateways, etc.

i truly hate that people are basing bitcoins entire 13million circulation based on a transaction value that is from a small pool of trades of less then 20k coins a day.

i and many others are seeing alot of growth of private trading, and these trades are measuring to far exceed 20k coin movements a day. yet no one is measuring these.

pump and dumping is getting far easier. even 200 coins can move a $5bill cap into a $6bill cap (as noted by the paypal news this week), yes just 200 coins done that!

That's because you don't know what "pump and dump" means. Well, the truth is that when whales pump and dump, it is known as "talking their book".

Yes what he explains is a day trading altho trades dont really happen in same day. You can get rich with it, or easily poor.

what you describe is 'risk free' pump and dump. this is where people dont use their own funds to cause the price movements, but use word of mouth and cause others to do it for them. moving the risk onto those listening in and believing their FUD. this is the worst and most illegal version of pump and dumps. BUT does not mean that moving the markets with your own funds to provoke others to act accordingly is not also a pumpand dump.. because in fact, both methods are pump and dumps. just on a less risky scale for the fud spreader scenario. or more risky for the initial party using funds.

either way, causing a price to rise without good reason or fall without good reason (natural growth or shrinkage due to common consensus) is still a pump and dump. the only difference is who is at risk the most.

so lets call them two things
Fud pump and dump: risk is on the listeners
whale pump and dump: risk is on the whales

The good old Fontas times, made some good money with his announcements on BTC-E

Regarding "pumping" Bitcoin : That's a lot harder to do, there is always some one with a lot BTC waiting to dump on the slightest price increase.

With btc? Better luck with altcoin especially when the volume is  low.

I'm not saying I was pumping it (wish I had that kind of money), just that someone called the bottom, pumped it and then it dropped.  The numbers weren't huge swings, but to me at least it seemed apparent.  Again, I don't base shit of charts graphs, or anything logical.  I was under the impression that pumps in btc could be triggered by bots, walls, and shit I don't fully grasp, not just people yelling that it is doomsday. 

Quite frankly I find it hard to believe whales don't pump and dump.  I mean wtf are alt coins other than mini whales to make money lol

Many people here don't seem to know what the term "pump-and-dump" means. It doesn't mean buying and selling. It doesn't mean buying a lot and then selling a lot. Whales don't pump and dump.

Basically in a pump-and-dump scheme, a person buys shares of an asset and then promotes the asset (the "pump"), generally by spreading false and misleading information in order to build up interest. Then when the price has risen, the person will sell off her shares for a profit (the "dump"). Later, the price usually drops back to normal when the lies are uncovered, and then people lose money because they bought at higher prices..

This page from the SEC goes into detail: "Pump-and-Dumps" and Market Manipulations

Here are some typical examples of pump-and-dumps:

A person buys shares of some obscure mineral or oil prospecting company. Then they post information on every investing site in the world about how the company has massive potential or has great results from test bores. When people take notice and buy up the shares, the operator sells her stake at a huge profit and just walks away.

Fontas (a well-known user on BTC-e) frequently announced that he was going to start a "pump" of some alt coin at a certain time. The idea was for everyone to get in on the "pump" at the beginning and then sell out at the top. The truth is that Fontas actually bought coins before making his announcement, and then watched all the fools buy up coins at the announced time (or earlier) and sold his coins for a profit to the people getting in "early".

You would be much better off holding longer. You will get more money and less transaction fees. Pumping and dumping just hurts everyone.

Doesn't feeel like a pump and dump to be honest. Feels more like the culmination (for now) of a phase where btc returns as an asset class werent't cutting it vis-a-vis alternatives
BTC has underperformed the USD this year..!

I'm not going to lie, bought a few coins the other week at maybe 380ish.  Bought them for the sole purpose of dumping them when the price spiked (not looking to make a killing just a few quick dollars.)  I've done this in the past and btc has rebounded much higher than it did, for longer (of course i've missed the bottom a few times and added coins to the dreaded hold super greed bank.) 

I don't want to argue value or this or that, just saying that if people are pumping and dumping, they are doing it at much earlier points than in the past.  Just curious if people think coincidence, or not.  If its not coincidence (did i spell that right ) then apparently the guys that are much smarter than me, and probably the majority of us, don't have faith that they can pump it higher and are taking a smaller safer cut.   

Yes, i know about paypal, and honestly I will not use ebay, just because i don't want to deal with paypal, but that's neither here or there (granted i still have gpus and shit in my basement because of this lol.)