Q2- Mining These Days COST YOU More than it GIVES

Zeal0t

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To the moon?

Quote from: Hash72 on January 18, 2014, 09:43:21 AM

Hi
Q2- Mining These Days COST YOU More than it GIVES ..Specially with BTC

This what figured after a couple days of reading in this forum ..is this correct ?

Thanks

Unless you were lucky enough to get your hands on a very early batch of this generations hardware, it's unlikely you can generate as much BTC within the devices lifetime as it costs. One still has a good speculative chance of making ROI and some good profit depending on how much faith you have in the rise of value.

krampus

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Quote from: cz_miner on January 24, 2014, 04:10:29 AM

Next time verify the facts before stating things you have written.

Next time, state them more clearly. With the additional details you've posted, you seem to be indicating that the initial projections were faulty. This still has nothing whatsoever to do with the price of BTC.

cz_miner

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Quote from: krampus on January 23, 2014, 12:03:47 PM

Quote from: cz_miner on January 23, 2014, 04:53:41 AM

This question is being raised every once in a while.

More like all day, every day. Wink

Quote from: cz_miner on January 23, 2014, 04:53:41 AM

I invested coins into asics thou. First asics came in August, calculations show me that i will not brake even. Ever. Then November came and price went to $1200, which made me a very good profits.
We don't know how the price will be going within 2014, but i have hopes that Bitcoin will be highly adopted worldwide and price will go higher and higher.

This doesn't quite ring true. If you invested coins into ASICS, and the calculations showed you that weren't going to break even, then the eventual price of Bitcoin does not matter. It absolutely, positively DOES NOT enter the equation. If you paid (I'm making this up) 10BTC for your ASICS and you get back 5BTC, then the price of BTC (in USD, EUR, CNY, GBP, Whatever) is completely irrelevant. You would have been better off holding the 10BTC.

If you got back more BTC than the number of BTC you put into the ASICs, then you made a legitimate profit. If you paid fiat and got back more in BTC at the eventual exchange rate, you made a legitimate profit. But your story doesn't read that way -- in fact, your story sounds downright dishonest.

Which, of course, is what I've come to expect from the bulk of the people in this forum. Dishonesty and outright lies seem to be the norm.

Dear Krampus.
As I written before, first asics came in August, 25th to be exact. I paid 17.6 BTC per unit hashing 120 GH/s, with real speed about 105GH. As you know, difficulty back than was 65 750 060. Each unit generated about 0.8 BTC/day till September, 4th, (11 days) when difficulty risen to 86 933 018, so each asic generated 0.6 BTC/day till Sept 14th (10 days), then difficulty went up to 112628549, asic generated about 0.47 BTC a day for another 11 days. Thats 19,97 in 32 days.
You probably have noticed that 19,97 minus 17.6 is a profit.
If I would choose your strategy and just hold BTC, I would have same 17.6 and no hardware in hand.

Back in August some of my friends ask for a refund from asic manufacturer because they saw great difficulty raise and thought that their investment will not brake even as they are expected. I took the risk. Hardware still hashing, BTC price is excellent.

Next time verify the facts before stating things you have written.

mountainlion

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Scrypt mining alts is still profitable, especially if you get in on the mining when it's easy and dump after a big pump. Think dogecoin, lottocoin, mooncoin, this week alone.

t1000

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I mine bitcoin with my ASIC and I mine on profit following scrypt pool for bitcoin with my GPUs.

I pay roughly 12p per kWh. I assume BTC1 is worth £520 for the calculations below.

My ASIC is using 300W so 7.2kWh a day, that's £0.864. It makes BTC0.016 a day, which is worth £8.32. My net profit in £ is therefore £7.46, or BTC0.014. In fiat terms it has broken even, but for the same money back when I placed my pre-order I should have bought BTC instead.

My GPUs are using ~2500W so 60kWh a day, that's £7.20. I make on average BTC0.06 a day, which is worth £31.2. My net profit in £ is therefore £24, or BTC0.0461.

My GPUs have broken even long ago, but if I were to have to start paying it back all over again it would take less than 5 months from their brand new cost, which was £3300. These days you can probably pay £2000 the whole lot, which puts the break even time for someone who were to buy it off me today at less than 3 months.

Also, I don't need heating, and my neighbors love me for my warm walls. Roll Eyes

The downside is everything you don't keep in the fridge goes off super fast.

andjo327

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Quote from: krampus on January 23, 2014, 12:03:47 PM

Quote from: cz_miner on January 23, 2014, 04:53:41 AM

This question is being raised every once in a while.

More like all day, every day. Wink

Quote from: cz_miner on January 23, 2014, 04:53:41 AM

I invested coins into asics thou. First asics came in August, calculations show me that i will not brake even. Ever. Then November came and price went to $1200, which made me a very good profits.
We don't know how the price will be going within 2014, but i have hopes that Bitcoin will be highly adopted worldwide and price will go higher and higher.

This doesn't quite ring true. If you invested coins into ASICS, and the calculations showed you that weren't going to break even, then the eventual price of Bitcoin does not matter. It absolutely, positively DOES NOT enter the equation. If you paid (I'm making this up) 10BTC for your ASICS and you get back 5BTC, then the price of BTC (in USD, EUR, CNY, GBP, Whatever) is completely irrelevant. You would have been better off holding the 10BTC.

If you got back more BTC than the number of BTC you put into the ASICs, then you made a legitimate profit. If you paid fiat and got back more in BTC at the eventual exchange rate, you made a legitimate profit. But your story doesn't read that way -- in fact, your story sounds downright dishonest.

Which, of course, is what I've come to expect from the bulk of the people in this forum. Dishonesty and outright lies seem to be the norm.

So the price of Bitcoin does not matter. I have seen this statement here so many times so I have to ask, do you all pay electricity with a fixed bitcoin price?
Since the margins over electricity get slimmer and slimmer at least for me it matter alot. Am I missing something?

byt411

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Quote from: FreedomCoin on January 23, 2014, 04:24:09 PM

i mine with two 6900s, i am pretty sure paying 0.13c per kwh is barely allowing me to profit... BUT when its really cold outside and my heat pump will not work, my mining rig keeps my room at a habitable level.

My plans are to stop GPU mining when spring/summer comes around.

You might as well explain the hardware cost and your income, for the OP.

FreedomCoin

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Freedom to choose

i mine with two 6900s, i am pretty sure paying 0.13c per kwh is barely allowing me to profit... BUT when its really cold outside and my heat pump will not work, my mining rig keeps my room at a habitable level.

My plans are to stop GPU mining when spring/summer comes around.

frank754

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I feel the best approach right now is to scrypt mine altcoins with GPU's, then sell them for Bitcoins. ASIC's for BTC will not ROI well with the diff going up so quickly. There has been a big increase in the altcoins lately (Litecoin, etc.), and with a good rig you can build for around $7-800 with an R9 280X, for example, you can mine about $8-10 USD per day and ROI in about 3 months. Some of these altcoins have been going up in price a lot lately too, much faster than BTC, so if you are savvy enough you can hold onto or trade them and make additional decent profits.

byt411

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Quote from: krampus on January 23, 2014, 12:03:47 PM

Quote from: cz_miner on January 23, 2014, 04:53:41 AM

This question is being raised every once in a while.

More like all day, every day. Wink

Quote from: cz_miner on January 23, 2014, 04:53:41 AM

I invested coins into asics thou. First asics came in August, calculations show me that i will not brake even. Ever. Then November came and price went to $1200, which made me a very good profits.
We don't know how the price will be going within 2014, but i have hopes that Bitcoin will be highly adopted worldwide and price will go higher and higher.

This doesn't quite ring true. If you invested coins into ASICS, and the calculations showed you that weren't going to break even, then the eventual price of Bitcoin does not matter. It absolutely, positively DOES NOT enter the equation. If you paid (I'm making this up) 10BTC for your ASICS and you get back 5BTC, then the price of BTC (in USD, EUR, CNY, GBP, Whatever) is completely irrelevant. You would have been better off holding the 10BTC.

If you got back more BTC than the number of BTC you put into the ASICs, then you made a legitimate profit. If you paid fiat and got back more in BTC at the eventual exchange rate, you made a legitimate profit. But your story doesn't read that way -- in fact, your story sounds downright dishonest.

Which, of course, is what I've come to expect from the bulk of the people in this forum. Dishonesty and outright lies seem to be the norm.

You should know something: It is possible to break even in USD, but very difficult in BTC.

krampus

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Quote from: cz_miner on January 23, 2014, 04:53:41 AM

This question is being raised every once in a while.

More like all day, every day. Wink

Quote from: cz_miner on January 23, 2014, 04:53:41 AM

I invested coins into asics thou. First asics came in August, calculations show me that i will not brake even. Ever. Then November came and price went to $1200, which made me a very good profits.
We don't know how the price will be going within 2014, but i have hopes that Bitcoin will be highly adopted worldwide and price will go higher and higher.

This doesn't quite ring true. If you invested coins into ASICS, and the calculations showed you that weren't going to break even, then the eventual price of Bitcoin does not matter. It absolutely, positively DOES NOT enter the equation. If you paid (I'm making this up) 10BTC for your ASICS and you get back 5BTC, then the price of BTC (in USD, EUR, CNY, GBP, Whatever) is completely irrelevant. You would have been better off holding the 10BTC.

If you got back more BTC than the number of BTC you put into the ASICs, then you made a legitimate profit. If you paid fiat and got back more in BTC at the eventual exchange rate, you made a legitimate profit. But your story doesn't read that way -- in fact, your story sounds downright dishonest.

Which, of course, is what I've come to expect from the bulk of the people in this forum. Dishonesty and outright lies seem to be the norm.

cz_miner

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This question is being raised every once in a while. Truth is you never know the price of bitcoin in future. If you calculate profitability back in Dec 2012, it didn't look good. You could brake even in some month, but price wasn't good, till April, when it hit more then $200. I'm a long time miner and i try to save 95% of the mined coins for the future. Selling 5% to cover electricity and maintenance costs is what i did throughout 2013. I invested coins into asics thou. First asics came in August, calculations show me that i will not brake even. Ever. Then November came and price went to $1200, which made me a very good profits.
We don't know how the price will be going within 2014, but i have hopes that Bitcoin will be highly adopted worldwide and price will go higher and higher.

byt411

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Quote from: krone9 on January 21, 2014, 09:00:00 PM

even after you factor in hardware cost?

Yes. Although it will take some time to break even, it is still profitable. Or you could rent your rig to others, so you break even more quickly.

krone9

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even after you factor in hardware cost?

t1000

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Quote

Scrypt GPU Mining on some coins is still profitable.

Oh yeah. Big time! Grin

byt411

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Quote from: krone9 on January 21, 2014, 03:07:16 PM

I mine - at a loss - for a few reasons:

I have bought some cryptocurrency and want it to go up in value - by supporting the network, I hope to help make this happen and thus make me money
I enjoy it as a hobby - through it I've started learning linux
I believe in the theory/principles behind bitcoin (etc) and would like to see it succeed

I would definitely not advise getting into mining now to make any money - unless its when the scrypt asics come out (for definite - not preorder), then depending on price/performance it might be worth it again

Scrypt GPU Mining on some coins is still profitable.

krone9

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I mine - at a loss - for a few reasons:

I have bought some cryptocurrency and want it to go up in value - by supporting the network, I hope to help make this happen and thus make me money
I enjoy it as a hobby - through it I've started learning linux
I believe in the theory/principles behind bitcoin (etc) and would like to see it succeed

I would definitely not advise getting into mining now to make any money - unless its when the scrypt asics come out (for definite - not preorder), then depending on price/performance it might be worth it again

byt411

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Quote from: Hash72 on January 20, 2014, 05:47:11 PM

Quote from: byt411 on January 20, 2014, 04:23:40 PM

Quote from: Gator-hex on January 20, 2014, 03:58:21 PM

Quote from: timk225 on January 19, 2014, 04:25:46 PM

No one here REALLY cares about the long term viability of Bitcoin or any other coin. We all just want to get more money (US Dollars).

Wrong, I care, I want to be free to trade with anyone in the world, at zero cost, using a currency not backed by debt servitude (bondage/slavery).

Correct. The actual statement would be that there are TOO many people that just want to quickly earn some money using BitCoin.

Nice This really what Attract many peoples all over the world you can trade with any one out of GOV controls..
So Thanks for all usefull though you gave.

No problem, we are all here to help.

Hash72

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Quote from: byt411 on January 20, 2014, 04:23:40 PM

Quote from: Gator-hex on January 20, 2014, 03:58:21 PM

Quote from: timk225 on January 19, 2014, 04:25:46 PM

No one here REALLY cares about the long term viability of Bitcoin or any other coin. We all just want to get more money (US Dollars).

Wrong, I care, I want to be free to trade with anyone in the world, at zero cost, using a currency not backed by debt servitude (bondage/slavery).

Correct. The actual statement would be that there are TOO many people that just want to quickly earn some money using BitCoin.

Nice This really what Attract many peoples all over the world you can trade with any one out of GOV controls..
So Thanks for all usefull though you gave.

byt411

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Quote from: Gator-hex on January 20, 2014, 03:58:21 PM

Quote from: timk225 on January 19, 2014, 04:25:46 PM

No one here REALLY cares about the long term viability of Bitcoin or any other coin. We all just want to get more money (US Dollars).

Wrong, I care, I want to be free to trade with anyone in the world, at zero cost, using a currency not backed by debt servitude (bondage/slavery).

Correct. The actual statement would be that there are TOO many people that just want to quickly earn some money using BitCoin.

Gator-hex

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Quote from: timk225 on January 19, 2014, 04:25:46 PM

No one here REALLY cares about the long term viability of Bitcoin or any other coin. We all just want to get more money (US Dollars).

Wrong, I care, I want to be free to trade with anyone in the world, at zero cost, using a currency not backed by debt servitude (bondage/slavery).

raskul

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Quote from: cdog on January 20, 2014, 03:38:23 AM

Quote from: timk225 on January 19, 2014, 08:52:30 PM

Well, I am only in this to make a profit.

Well it was nice meeting you, if only in passing. Please close the door behind you on the way out, thanks.

You can leave the light on though. We will be here for a while. Wink

+1

cdog

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Quote from: timk225 on January 19, 2014, 08:52:30 PM

Well, I am only in this to make a profit.

Well it was nice meeting you, if only in passing. Please close the door behind you on the way out, thanks.

You can leave the light on though. We will be here for a while. Wink

krampus

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Quote from: timk225 on January 19, 2014, 04:25:46 PM

No one here REALLY cares about the long term viability of Bitcoin or any other coin. We all just want to get more money (US Dollars).

I'm just here for the scintillating conversation.

timk225

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Well, I am only in this to make a profit. And when it is no longer profitable to mine Scrypt coins and/or trade them into BTC for resale, I'm out. I don't give a damn about securing the network through continued mining.

byt411

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Quote from: timk225 on January 19, 2014, 04:25:46 PM

No one here REALLY cares about the long term viability of Bitcoin or any other coin. We all just want to get more money (US Dollars).

You are highly incorrect...
Some of us, are mining, not for profit, but to support the BitCoin Network System. Voluntarily.

satosh007

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-yes
but not all mining;
what are you mining? and what is your investment length plan?
answering those questions after making a good market study might help you redirect your efforts into a better choice.

timk225

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No one here REALLY cares about the long term viability of Bitcoin or any other coin. We all just want to get more money (US Dollars).

byt411

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Quote from: bit.alex on January 19, 2014, 01:37:47 PM

Quote from: Kenshin on January 19, 2014, 12:04:55 PM

Quote from: byt411 on January 19, 2014, 12:03:30 PM

Quote from: ymer on January 19, 2014, 11:25:45 AM

That is correct OP, that is why difficulty keeps increasing.

Wink

And as difficulty increases, it gets even more unprofitable to mine.

That is why there will be no more miner one day. Undecided

This is incorrect. Mining is like an open market. As soon as it gets unprofitable, people leave, making it more profitable again. It's self stabilizing. That's the beauty

Also, if there will be not many miners left, that'll mean you will be able to earn tons of money mining, because it will be much easier. Then again, if it's extremely profitable, a lot of people jump in and make it barely profitable.

Hope you understood

Correct. And right now there are too many miners and too many ASICs on the market.

bit.alex

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Quote from: Kenshin on January 19, 2014, 12:04:55 PM

Quote from: byt411 on January 19, 2014, 12:03:30 PM

Quote from: ymer on January 19, 2014, 11:25:45 AM

That is correct OP, that is why difficulty keeps increasing.

Wink

And as difficulty increases, it gets even more unprofitable to mine.

That is why there will be no more miner one day. Undecided

This is incorrect. Mining is like an open market. As soon as it gets unprofitable, people leave, making it more profitable again. It's self stabilizing. That's the beauty

Also, if there will be not many miners left, that'll mean you will be able to earn tons of money mining, because it will be much easier. Then again, if it's extremely profitable, a lot of people jump in and make it barely profitable.

Hope you understood

Kenshin

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Quote from: byt411 on January 19, 2014, 12:03:30 PM

Quote from: ymer on January 19, 2014, 11:25:45 AM

That is correct OP, that is why difficulty keeps increasing.

Wink

And as difficulty increases, it gets even more unprofitable to mine.

That is why there will be no more miner one day. Undecided

byt411

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Quote from: ymer on January 19, 2014, 11:25:45 AM

That is correct OP, that is why difficulty keeps increasing.

Wink

And as difficulty increases, it gets even more unprofitable to mine.

ymer

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That is correct OP, that is why difficulty keeps increasing.

Wink

byt411

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Quote from: Hash72 on January 18, 2014, 11:53:23 AM

So the NEAR solution for starters to buy BTC waiting for possible increase

AS other said UP 10 000 =BTC

Yes, that is correct, if all you want is to earn money.

Hash72

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So the NEAR solution for starters to buy BTC waiting for possible increase

AS other said UP 10 000 =BTC

byt411

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Quote from: Hash72 on January 18, 2014, 09:43:21 AM

Hi
Q2- Mining These Days COST YOU More than it GIVES ..Specially with BTC

This what figured after a couple days of reading in this forum ..is this correct ?

Thanks

For GPUs and CPUs and most FPGAs, that is correct.
For some ASICS that is correct too.

Unless you have free electricity. But your devices would still take a long time to break even.

manobra

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Yes

Hash72

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Hi
Q2- Mining These Days COST YOU More than it GIVES ..Specially with BTC

This what figured after a couple days of reading in this forum ..is this correct ?

Thanks

Topic: Q2- Mining These Days COST YOU More than it GIVES (Read 3424 times)